Tweets about the players' trial regarding restraining orders...

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MaxyJR1 said:
We all know reality. We also know that when caught and the media latches on, all bets are off. Claey's players are giving the new AD his out if he chooses to move on.


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Damn...you must be PISSED that the ROs have been revoked.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Coach will be gone if a recruit was involved.
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Pretty sure Wisconsin had a recruit convicted of rape a year or two ago and nothing much happened to the coaches or program.
 


Unregistered User said:
Damn...you must be PISSED that the ROs have been revoked.
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Nope, but been around long enough to know residual of these events. We'll see who stays and goes in the off season.

Did you see the strib article last week about the lady who was raped by the fraternity boy? You think that investor isn't hot on every reported case at the U of M?


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I predict that the girl transfers. If she is if fact a cheer leader she's received the benefit of the doubt up to now from the other girls. The terms of the settlement make it appear that a substantial part of her case was faulty at best. I bet she'll be seen as a pariah and the other girls turn on her with a vengeance.
 


Could also be the flip side

nsmike said:
I predict that the girl transfers. If she is if fact a cheer leader she's received the benefit of the doubt up to now from the other girls. The terms of the settlement make it appear that a substantial part of her case was faulty at best. I bet she'll be seen as a pariah and the other girls turn on her with a vengeance.
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You could say the flipside of the coin could be true also. That the cheer team turns on the team, and some of them quit over the incident.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
You could say the flipside of the coin could be true also. That the cheer team turns on the team, and some of them quit over the incident.
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Perhaps! My opinion comes from growing up with five sisters.
 

Common sense and decency prevails. I hope we, and all involved simply put this behind us.
 

A cheerleader? Is that fact or just rumor?

I question that since the players have been able to play during away games. Aren't the Gopher football cheerleaders at those games??? And possibly staying in the same hotels? RO's would likely prohibit that type of situations. I assume the cheerleaders have been going to the recent away games.

The RO's have been for home games only.
 



Bayfieldgopher said:
A cheerleader? Is that fact or just rumor?

I question that since the players have been able to play during away games. Aren't the Gopher football cheerleaders at those games??? And possibly staying in the same hotels? RO's would likely prohibit that type of situations. I assume the cheerleaders have been going to the recent away games.

The RO's have been for home games only.
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From what I have heard, the entire cheer squad does not travel, but I really don't know if this is true or not.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
A cheerleader? Is that fact or just rumor?

I question that since the players have been able to play during away games. Aren't the Gopher football cheerleaders at those games??? And possibly staying in the same hotels? RO's would likely prohibit that type of situations. I assume the cheerleaders have been going to the recent away games.

The RO's have been for home games only.
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It's pretty widely known that it was a cheerleader. Only 6 or so of them travel to away games, and they rotate the privilege. So either she already went to an away game earlier this year or she wasn't in the rotation at all.

Oh, and a little birdie told me she is indeed all set to transfer at semester. This whole thing...man, oh man. What a mess for everyone involved.

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balds said:
Interesting that part of the deal was that they wouldn't go after her via a civil trial? Leads me to believe that there was something there that they could go after her for via a civil trial.
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That was my first thought as well.
 

I'm hearing she is part of the "Game day Staff" and that would make sense why the players couldn't be at TCF but could be on the road. Assuming she is a student and good grief what a mess. I'm hoping that people learned something here as to what to do and what not to do. No means no...and no you can't watch without doing anything to help the victim. Yet I don't know what really happened and I don't care to learn the details but hope that the gal was treated properly in the end by the U.
 



balds said:
Interesting that part of the deal was that they wouldn't go after her via a civil trial? Leads me to believe that there was something there that they could go after her for via a civil trial.
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Yeah I wondered about that too. That doesn't mean what she said didn't happen in some way of course, but it seems like the players had some leverage that we don't know about.

Either way I'm glad they won't be around each other anymore and everyone can move on.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Yeah I wondered about that too. That doesn't mean what she said didn't happen in some way of course, but it seems like the players had some leverage that we don't know about.

Either way I'm glad they won't be around each other anymore and everyone can move on.
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Possibly an attorney willing to work pro bono on behalf of players.


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nsmike said:
I predict that the girl transfers. If she is if fact a cheer leader she's received the benefit of the doubt up to now from the other girls. The terms of the settlement make it appear that a substantial part of her case was faulty at best. I bet she'll be seen as a pariah and the other girls turn on her with a vengeance.
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This is just ridiculous. I hope you guys realize that the settlement gives the victim equivalent safety, in addition to other protections stated by the media, than the HRO would have. This settlement was in every party's best interest. Just because the HROs were dismissed for the time being and that both parties came to a settlement does not mean AT ALL that her testimony proved untrue. If you went to court this morning, listened to her testimony, then decided to not believe her, that's one thing. If you're only going off of what the media is portraying, then get a clue that the entire picture is obviously not being painted. The alleged victim has not been the one making this a media storm. She hasn't shared her story (at least not yet) or posted egregious claims on social media (that we know of), in which the defense has been consistent with doing. She has been exercising her rights and doing normal things a victim in a sexual assault case would do to ensure her safety that would be disregarded if the case didn't involve football players. There are plenty of reasons why an alleged victim's story could change with time. Look up what trauma does to the brain and how it affects memory. I think it speaks to her credibility in that she does not want to falsely incriminate people without being sure of their role. I can't even imagine trying to go through interviews with the police while in a state of shock from a traumatic experience that included an alleged succession of sexual assaults including so many people. Of course there are some discrepancies. I would hope this girl does not have to resort to transferring to be able to go to the University and fulfill her obligations with her team in a safe matter. If you are willing to stop blaming the alleged sexual assault perpetrators, then also stop blaming the alleged victim.
 

goooogophers said:
This is just ridiculous. I hope you guys realize that the settlement gives the victim equivalent safety, in addition to other protections stated by the media, than the HRO would have. This settlement was in every party's best interest. Just because the HROs were dismissed for the time being and that both parties came to a settlement does not mean AT ALL that her testimony proved untrue. If you went to court this morning, listened to her testimony, then decided to not believe her, that's one thing. If you're only going off of what the media is portraying, then get a clue that the entire picture is obviously not being painted. The alleged victim has not been the one making this a media storm. She hasn't shared her story (at least not yet) or posted egregious claims on social media (that we know of), in which the defense has been consistent with doing. She has been exercising her rights and doing normal things a victim in a sexual assault case would do to ensure her safety that would be disregarded if the case didn't involve football players. There are plenty of reasons why an alleged victim's story could change with time. Look up what trauma does to the brain and how it affects memory. I think it speaks to her credibility in that she does not want to falsely incriminate people without being sure of their role. I can't even imagine trying to go through interviews with the police while in a state of shock from a traumatic experience that included an alleged succession of sexual assaults including so many people. Of course there are some discrepancies. I would hope this girl does not have to resort to transferring to be able to go to the University and fulfill her obligations with her team in a safe matter. If you are willing to stop blaming the alleged sexual assault perpetrators, then also stop blaming the alleged victim.
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To the first point, she falsely accused Kiondre of being involved, then retracted the RO a few days later.

To the second bolded, can you enlighten us? The frequent memory issues in these cases are much more likely second to being obliterated on alcohol and/or drugs. During the UVA uproar there was a movement to try to explain away the alleged victims many inconsistencies. The reality is there isn't much solid science in this area and the stuff I've seen tends to revolve around decades-old memories of childhood sexual abuse. There are instances of psychogenic memory loss, vision loss, etc but they are not common. Human memory is inherently and famously inaccurate.

The takeaway with these types of stories is don't get obliterated around young men, go back to their apartments, etc, etc, etc. drunken men have and will commit violent acts, sexual assault, and the list goes on. Getting a judgment in court won't ever heal the victim. Stop it from ever happening. Be smart.
 

balds said:
Interesting that part of the deal was that they wouldn't go after her via a civil trial? Leads me to believe that there was something there that they could go after her for via a civil trial.
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I wouldn't read too much into that. I am guessing that at some point one of the players, their parents or their attorney claimed defamation. Whether such a claim was baseless or not, her attorney would be expected to secure protection from such a claim. More interesting would be whether she agrees not to pursue them in a civil action.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
To the first point, she falsely accused Kiondre of being involved, then retracted the RO a few days later.

To the second bolded, can you enlighten us? The frequent memory issues in these cases are much more likely second to being obliterated on alcohol and/or drugs. During the UVA uproar there was a movement to try to explain away the alleged victims many inconsistencies. The reality is there isn't much solid science in this area and the stuff I've seen tends to revolve around decades-old memories of childhood sexual abuse. There are instances of psychogenic memory loss, vision loss, etc but they are not common. Human memory is inherently and famously inaccurate.

The takeaway with these types of stories is don't get obliterated around young men, go back to their apartments, etc, etc, etc. drunken men have and will commit violent acts, sexual assault, and the list goes on. Getting a judgment in court won't ever heal the victim. Stop it from ever happening. Be smart.
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Interesting perspective to think that it falls completely on the victim to prevent oneself from getting gang raped.
 

goooogophers said:
Interesting perspective to think that it falls completely on the victim to prevent oneself from not getting gang raped.
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No, but oftentimes bad outcomes in all areas of life can be avoided with a modicum of self-preservation and wariness. Obviously the criminal goes to prison. Understand the difference? Once broken, an egg cannot be be made whole again. Sending the criminal to prison or banning them from football does little to nothing to heal her. I would guess she will alter her behaviors in some ways going forward. Wouldn't you?

You're insinuating she was gang-raped. In reality, she said the sex with Djam was consensual, and she has no clear memories of the rest of the night. I'll be waiting on the memory data you alluded to earlier.

Also, the agreement stipulates no civil suits from either side.

More details here: http://www.mprnews.org/story/2016/11/02/u-minnesota-football-players-restraining-orders-dropped
 


Pompous Elitist said:
No, but oftentimes bad outcomes in all areas of life can be avoided with a modicum of self-preservation and wariness. Obviously the criminal goes to prison. Understand the difference? Once broken, an egg cannot be be made whole again. Sending the criminal to prison or banning them from football does little to nothing to heal her. I would guess she will alter her behaviors in some ways going forward. Wouldn't you?

You're insinuating she was gang-raped. In reality, she said the sex with Djam was consensual, and she has no clear memories of the rest of the night. I'll be waiting on the memory data you alluded to earlier.

Also, the agreement stipulates no civil suits from either side.

More details here: http://www.mprnews.org/story/2016/11/02/u-minnesota-football-players-restraining-orders-dropped
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Obviously safety precautions can be taken and I can bet she will be more cautious. However, perpetrators should be taught not to assault, as well. Not all situations can be avoided.

In reality, she clearly states in the article you shared that at the time she reported it to the police, she said it was consensual. Now, she does not believe that to be true. If other details from her testimony on 11/2 come out about the reasoning behind her initial police statement, then I'm sure you will understand differently.

She said she didn't remember all of the details of the night clearly. That does not mean she can't remember instances vividly. Of course she can't recall all of the details overall. If I asked you for an exact recollection of your night on September 2nd, would you be able to provide me with every single detail? Drinking and assault aside? Also, I'm insinuating that she was allegedly gang-raped because there are four other people you're failing to mention in your argument who were testified against today, too. The definition of gang rape according to Merriam-Webster.com is "rape of one person by several attackers in succession." So yes, there was an obvious alleged gang rape.
 

goooogophers said:
Obviously safety precautions can be taken and I can bet she will be more cautious. However, perpetrators should be taught not to assault, as well. Not all situations can be avoided.

In reality, she clearly states in the article you shared that at the time she reported it to the police, she said it was consensual. Now, she does not believe that to be true. If other details from her testimony on 11/2 come out about the reasoning behind her initial police statement, then I'm sure you will understand differently.

She said she didn't remember all of the details of the night clearly. That does not mean she can't remember instances vividly. Of course she can't recall all of the details overall. If I asked you for an exact recollection of your night on September 2nd, would you be able to provide me with every single detail? Drinking and assault aside? Also, I'm insinuating that she was allegedly gang-raped because there are four other people you're failing to mention in your argument who were testified against today, too. The definition of gang rape according to Merriam-Webster.com is "rape of one person by several attackers in succession." So yes, there was an obvious alleged gang rape.
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Re: your first paragraph I don't engage in magical thinking. Men shouldn't rape? Well, why didn't you say so? Next, we'll eradicate lust, hate, greed, sloth...you see where I'm going.

Re: your second paragraph I suspect Ms. Isenor counseled the young lady that because she was intoxicated there is no consensual sex. Isn't that the memo? It's also wrong.

Actually, I have an extremely good recall of traumatic events, and this is supported by actual consensus science (bring your evidence whenever you're ready regarding the fractured memory issue). I can recall every detail of the car accident I was involved in as a passenger. We played it over so many times in our minds in the days afteward it's like it happened yesterday. In fact, that is the usual situation with trauma and PTSD. The memories are all too vivid. Trauma and stress are excellent ways to form permanent memories. Is that infallible. Nope. No memories are 100 percent infallible. Why did the alleged victim say Kiondre was involved then change her mind?
 

I wonder if she will present her story to the media now that the civil side of this matter is closed. I hope that the Title IX investigation is thorough and the truth is brought to the surface, whatever it may be.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Re: your first paragraph I don't engage in magical thinking. Men shouldn't rape? Well, why didn't you say so? Next, we'll eradicate lust, hate, greed, sloth...you see where I'm going.

Re: your second paragraph I suspect Ms. Isenor counseled the young lady that because she was intoxicated there is no consensual sex. Isn't that the memo? It's also wrong.

Actually, I have an extremely good recall of traumatic events, and this is supported by actual consensus science (bring your evidence whenever you're ready regarding the fractured memory issue). I can recall every detail of the car accident I was involved in as a passenger. We played it over so many times in our minds in the days afteward it's like it happened yesterday. In fact, that is the usual situation with trauma and PTSD. The memories are all too vivid. Trauma and stress are excellent ways to form permanent memories. Is that infallible. Nope. No memories are 100 percent infallible. Why did the alleged victim say Kiondre was involved then change her mind?
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1- this type of crime has a horrible conviction rate, so no, the criminal currently DOES NOT go to prison. 2- your "takeaway" excuses bad, criminal behavior by the people who commit these crimes.

Your world view regarding this subject is awful, in my opinion. I have no interest in any sort of back and forth message board debate about this kind of thing, but I want to chime in once and try to compel you to take a step back and perhaps do something like read a book from a perspective that you don't agree with on this type of subject, with the hope that yours will broaden from its current perpetrator-centric point of view, and really, extremely cynical oversimplifications.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Re: your first paragraph I don't engage in magical thinking. Men shouldn't rape? Well, why didn't you say so? Next, we'll eradicate lust, hate, greed, sloth...you see where I'm going.

Re: your second paragraph I suspect Ms. Isenor counseled the young lady that because she was intoxicated there is no consensual sex. Isn't that the memo? It's also wrong.

Actually, I have an extremely good recall of traumatic events, and this is supported by actual consensus science (bring your evidence whenever you're ready regarding the fractured memory issue). I can recall every detail of the car accident I was involved in as a passenger. We played it over so many times in our minds in the days afteward it's like it happened yesterday. In fact, that is the usual situation with trauma and PTSD. The memories are all too vivid. Trauma and stress are excellent ways to form permanent memories. Is that infallible. Nope. No memories are 100 percent infallible. Why did the alleged victim say Kiondre was involved then change her mind?
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So, according to your first reply, people who will rape, will rape, and people who won't, won't right? So we should just give up on teaching young adults about consent? Cause it won't help at all? Or is it that we shouldn't teach about when consent can or can't be given? Because apparently it doesn't matter, right? Nothing we do will stop someone from raping someone, because all rapists rape on purpose right, and it's never a misunderstanding or accident right? Cause that's what I gather from your insistence against teaching people about Consent, Rape, and telling them not to do it.

Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't also teach about how to be safe when going out, and how to help friends out of situations like that, because we definitely should. But we can, and should attack this problem from both ends!
 


Pompous Elitist said:
Re: your first paragraph I don't engage in magical thinking. Men shouldn't rape? Well, why didn't you say so? Next, we'll eradicate lust, hate, greed, sloth...you see where I'm going.

Re: your second paragraph I suspect Ms. Isenor counseled the young lady that because she was intoxicated there is no consensual sex. Isn't that the memo? It's also wrong.

Actually, I have an extremely good recall of traumatic events, and this is supported by actual consensus science (bring your evidence whenever you're ready regarding the fractured memory issue). I can recall every detail of the car accident I was involved in as a passenger. We played it over so many times in our minds in the days afteward it's like it happened yesterday. In fact, that is the usual situation with trauma and PTSD. The memories are all too vivid. Trauma and stress are excellent ways to form permanent memories. Is that infallible. Nope. No memories are 100 percent infallible. Why did the alleged victim say Kiondre was involved then change her mind?
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Yep, I see you are basing your arguement on a personal event...
;)
 

citywok said:
1- this type of crime has a horrible conviction rate, so no, the criminal currently DOES NOT go to prison. 2- your "takeaway" excuses bad, criminal behavior by the people who commit these crimes.

Your world view regarding this subject is awful, in my opinion. I have no interest in any sort of back and forth message board debate about this kind of thing, but I want to chime in once and try to compel you to take a step back and perhaps do something like read a book from a perspective that you don't agree with on this type of subject, with the hope that yours will broaden from its current perpetrator-centric point of view, and really, extremely cynical oversimplifications.
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Some of us are hell bent on maintaining status quo.
 

Tough situation (understatement) for the victim. I'm the father of two daughters and stepfather of three more and I'd give up my kidneys if any of them was in need of one. I'm not going to get into the he said/she said part of this because it's tawdry, messy, and alcohol was obviously involved (which makes me think that several of the Gopher players involved in this are not of drinking age, which is minor I suppose and I'm certainly no one given the ten-year blear-a-thon I put myself through in my 20s to cast aspersions about that). My point is pretty clear. Is it too much for young men to step back in this situation and just say to themselves "I shouldn't be doing this?" If the sex with Djam was consensual, no big deal. But what are the other four guys thinking? Did she say, "Hey guys, let's have a menage a six!!!!" And even if she did, why didn't they say "Bad idea. We'll all regret this in the morning."

I was young once and extremely stupid. I'm no saint, but there comes a time when young men just have to grow up a bit and not take advantage of every situation that comes before them. Of course, I'm old and was never a great athlete or particularly studly, so that's easy for me to say. Bottom line: The human brain is usually located a couple of feet above the lower spinal column and even though our ability to reason gets muddled at times, we should be able to keep ourselves in check.
 

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