Time to start looking fora new head coach

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cjbfbp said:
Iowa fired Todd Lickliter after 3 years and was able to hire Fran McCaffrey, a very experienced coach. Some of you guys hang onto this mantra like it was the gospel truth. It isn't. Instead of just accepting and repeating armchair intuitive "wisdoms," try doing a little research for a change.
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Lickliter won 11 less games in three full years than Pitino has only halfway through his 3rd year. Not to mention his kid who had no business being on a division 1 roster was getting regular minutes. He left the Iowa program in such bad shape that it took McCaffery 4 years to make it back to the NCAA tournament.

As bad as this year is going, there is no way this program is in as bad as shape as Iowa's was in year 3 under Lickliter.
 

howeda7 said:
We should not refuse to make a move out of fear of violating some 'unwritten' rule. Certainly firing a coach after 3 years is not ideal, and if you do it over and over it will hurt you. But we have never done it before. I am still not 100% on it. But it's hard not to lean towards after the disaster today. I no longer think it's an automatic that we have to give him year 4. If we can recover from this and win 4-5 games, OK. If we end up 1-17, we have to consider it.
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I think that's a fair position howeda7.

I never thought I would see the day where we would be that embarrassed at home by Northwestern.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Lickliter won 11 less games in three full years than Pitino has only halfway through his 3rd year. Not to mention his kid who had no business being on a division 1 roster was getting regular minutes. He left the Iowa program in such bad shape that it took McCaffery 4 years to make it back to the NCAA tournament.

As bad as this year is going, there is no way this program is in as bad as shape as Iowa's was in year 3 under Lickliter.
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You wanna bet??
 


howeda7 said:
We should not refuse to make a move out of fear of violating some 'unwritten' rule. Certainly firing a coach after 3 years is not ideal, and if you do it over and over it will hurt you. But we have never done it before. I am still not 100% on it. But it's hard not to lean towards after the disaster today. I no longer think it's an automatic that we have to give him year 4. If we can recover from this and win 4-5 games, OK. If we end up 1-17, we have to consider it.
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Long time lurker but this thread is driving me crazy. I have to chime in.

This team could end up 0-19. Lose all regular season Big Ten games and exit the B1G after game one. Basically go O fer B1G 2016. Its playing that bad. I see nothing on court suggesting a reversal of this trend.

And no permanent AD in place. None expected before spring early summer.

So do people really think there will be a coaching change THIS YEAR? Really? If so then what? Who does the hire? Who comes here without knowing who their future boss will be? The direction the program will be going?

Until the AD position is settled there will be no changes. So watch for that then start wondering what comes next.
 


lugnard said:
Long time lurker but this thread is driving me crazy. I have to chime in.

This team could end up 0-19. Lose all regular season Big Ten games and exit the B1G after game one. Basically go O fer B1G 2016. Its playing that bad. I see nothing on court suggesting a reversal of this trend.

And no permanent AD in place. None expected before spring early summer.

So do people really think there will be a coaching change THIS YEAR? Really? If so then what? Who does the hire? Who comes here without knowing who their future boss will be? The direction the program will be going?

Until the AD position is settled there will be no changes. So watch for that then start wondering what comes next.
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Nothing will happen before the end of the season. Do you really think we can go 0-18 and not at least consider making a move?

It seems like the odds are that Goetz will get the job anyway. A crisis with the 2nd most important sport is justification for moving the hire up to March IMO.
 

frannyjunk said:
Wow! Why the hostility? This is a Gopher fan message board to post our opinions. But just so we know the facts, Tubby was HC at MN for 6 years. He made NIT 2 times and NCAA 3 times. His last year at MN was probably his best, reaching the 3rd round in NCAA tournament. The program was NOT heading to the basement.
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I'm losing faith in Pitino myself..BUT let's drop the bolded BS once and for all. He won one game in the tournament against a UCLA team that had absolutely no interest in being there. Most D3 teams would have beaten UCLA that day.

Any coach that hangs his hat on that accomplishment would have to be very desperate.
 

station19 said:
I'm losing faith in Pitino myself..BUT let's drop the bolded BS once and for all. He won one game in the tournament against a UCLA team that had absolutely no interest in being there. Most D3 teams would have beaten UCLA that day. Any coach that hangs his hat on that accomplishment would have to be very desperate.
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Now you did it. Queue you know who in 5.4.3...
 

Respectfully, for a program of Minnesota's ilk getting to the Round of 32 in the NCAA Tournament is an accomplishment. Quantifying NCAA tourney wins is a tricky business. The goal is simply to win and move on, correct? A NCAA Tournament win is a NCAA Tournament win.

The Gophers have been a part of the Round of 32 only 7 times in their history, and in one of those seasons (1972) they didn't win a (winners bracket) game.
 



SelectionSunday said:
Respectfully, for a program of Minnesota's ilk getting to the Round of 32 in the NCAA Tournament is an accomplishment. Quantifying NCAA tourney wins is a tricky business. The goal is simply to win and move on, correct? A NCAA Tournament win is a NCAA Tournament win.

The Gophers have been a part of the Round of 32 only 7 times in their history, and in one of those seasons (1972) they didn't win a (winners bracket) game.
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Agreed - to an extent.

One perspective might be a coach of tubby's caliber winning one ncaa game, in year 6, is not very good performance.

BTW ss - give us your thoughts on Richard and his coaching/staff. Coaching is there, just not enough talent yet? Poor coaching? Poor assistants? Not good enough to get MN there? Will get MN there?
 

BarnBurner said:
Agreed - to an extent.

One perspective might be a coach of tubby's caliber winning one ncaa game, in year 6, is not very good performance.

BTW ss - give us your thoughts on Richard and his coaching/staff. Coaching is there, just not enough talent yet? Poor coaching? Poor assistants? Not good enough to get MN there? Will get MN there?
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I think its a fair argument to make that one win in 6 years is not good enough. That is different than arguing that a tournament win is somehow less than a normal tournament win (unless it is one of those stupid play-in games in the round of 68).
 

Agree with you BB that more than 1 NCAA win in 6 years should have been expected/delivered by Tubby. What I'm pointing out is we as Gopher fans shouldn't dismiss NCAA tourney wins, or even NCAA appearances, given our history.

Pitino?

Year 1 was solid, Year 2 a disappointment, this one so far has been much more discouraging than I thought it would be even with the youth. Most troubling to me is the sieve-like defense being played, and (again) the general apathy toward the program.

Snapshot opinion? I don't know whether he's "the guy", none of us do, but I think he deserves a 5th year as long as the 4th one doesn't come anything close to where Year 3 appears headed. I'm not a big "fire the assistants" guy, no problem there, and I think there's promising talent in the program (Mason, Murphy, McBrayer, Dorsey). I don't follow recruiting that closely, but I'll assume Coffey will inject some life into the program in 2016-17.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Lickliter won 11 less games in three full years than Pitino has only halfway through his 3rd year. Not to mention his kid who had no business being on a division 1 roster was getting regular minutes. He left the Iowa program in such bad shape that it took McCaffery 4 years to make it back to the NCAA tournament.

As bad as this year is going, there is no way this program is in as bad as shape as Iowa's was in year 3 under Lickliter.
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I have posted previously on these pages that Pitino has not been as big of a failure to date as Lickliter, but, having watched both Pitino and Lickliter's 3rd seasons, I can say that this season is shaping up to be every bit as bad as Lickliter's third season and Pitino has more talent on this roster than Lickliter had on his. Lickliter was a very poor recruiter but he also had four players (including two starters) transfer after his second year and at least one of his original commits renege after that season. He had to scramble in spring and summer just to get enough players to have a serviceable roster. That's the reason why his son played backup point guard that season and, yes, his son was terrible (he couldn't earn many minutes with an NAIA team a year later).

Right now this team is playing every bit as badly as Lickliter's third team and has more talent on its roster. The difference is that there is more promise of talent in the near future in the current situation. Lickliter's team actually did win 4 conference games and I have doubts that Richard's current team will.

McCaffrey did take 4 seasons to return to the NCAA tournament (that was also Iowa's first appearance in 8 years) but his teams improved every season during those four years, he returned to the NCAA tournament the following year, and he's a cinch to make it 3 straight this season. If Richard is still here next season, I would bet against him making the tournament. McCaffrey's team had a good enough record to make the tournament and finished .500 in the Big Ten during his 3rd season but their RPI was considered too low because of a weak nonconference schedule.
 



Re: Promising Future.

You can poop in one hand and make a promise to the other; which one fills up first?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 

He won an NIT championship with Tubby's roster, and the team has regressed every year that the team has become more of Richard's making.
 

skauma said:
He won an NIT championship with Tubby's roster
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Psst....3 of the top 6 scorers on that team had nothing to do with Tubby. 1 of the 2 players to be named big ten honorable mention had nothing to do with Tubby.
 

I wish the Gophers were winning and Pitino was the coach leading the winning squad but they're not. And he's not. These boys aren't simply losing by a couple of baskets - they're getting blown out. I haven't posted much lately but I've been around reading GH. After yet another blowout the tide has turned. Before last night I think the majority of folks were in the "give him one more year" camp but after the game last night I think the majority of fans have decided Coach Pitino isn't the man for the job. This team has given up on him and so have the fans.

There will still be a few who will fight to the death that he should be given more time but at the end of the day they'll be very lonely.
 

Gopher2017 said:
I wish the Gophers were winning and Pitino was the coach leading the winning squad but they're not. And he's not. These boys aren't simply losing by a couple of baskets - they're getting blown out. I haven't posted much lately but I've been around reading GH. After yet another blowout the tide has turned. Before last night I think the majority of folks were in the "give him one more year" camp but after the game last night I think the majority of fans have decided Coach Pitino isn't the man for the job. This team has given up on him and so have the fans.

There will still be a few who will fight to the death that he should be given more time but at the end of the day they'll be very lonely.
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you must not have read a whole lot because after every loss this season I bet over half of the posters here have been arguing for him being fired. I just don't see us making a coaching change until we have a full time athletic director.
 

Tim1406 said:
you must not have read a whole lot because after every loss this season I bet over half of the posters here have been arguing for him being fired. I just don't see us making a coaching change until we have a full time athletic director.
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I normally would agree with that but as the bad losses pile up it won't surprise me to find out they've let him go. There was a story a few months ago about how sales were poor (tickets and athletic wear) and money speaks volumes and if revenue is falling the folks in charge aren't going to sit around and wait for the AD to be hired before making a move. Wherever Pitino lands, I hope he succeeds as I think he's a great guy but needs a lot more coaching experience before coming to the big stage.
 

Gopher2017 said:
I wish the Gophers were winning and Pitino was the coach leading the winning squad but they're not. And he's not. These boys aren't simply losing by a couple of baskets - they're getting blown out. I haven't posted much lately but I've been around reading GH. After yet another blowout the tide has turned. Before last night I think the majority of folks were in the "give him one more year" camp but after the game last night I think the majority of fans have decided Coach Pitino isn't the man for the job. This team has given up on him and so have the fans.

There will still be a few who will fight to the death that he should be given more time but at the end of the day they'll be very lonely.
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Count me as one of the few that can see the forest in the trees. I don't think I'll be alone. Pitino recruited those guys, he deserves the opportunity to see what he can do. We need an AD before we make changes. People usually want to know who there boss is going to be and a new AD will want to be able to bring in there own people if they see fit
 

bemidjigopher said:
Count me as one of the few that can see the forest in the trees. I don't think I'll be alone. Pitino recruited those guys, he deserves the opportunity to see what he can do. We need an AD before we make changes. People usually want to know who there boss is going to be and a new AD will want to be able to bring in there own people if they see fit
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That's very clear headed. Richard deserves a chance to show that he can get this team to improve in the remainder of the season, which would indicate he CAN teach fundamentals and teach a young team, and if he does that he deserves a shot with his new recruits next year.
 

Bad Gopher said:
That's very clear headed. Richard deserves a chance to show that he can get this team to improve in the remainder of the season, which would indicate he CAN teach fundamentals and teach a young team, and if he does that he deserves a shot with his new recruits next year.
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Luckily improvement is a very low bar for the rest of this year :)
 

Firing someone is the easy part. The hard part would be hiring someone to replace him. Who makes the final decision on the hire? How long would it take? Hiring a replacement in May that was your 20th option isn't good either.

I still think he will get at least one more year but wouldn't be too upset if he doesn't. Especially if things continue like this. I just don't trust our athletic department to make a good decision on the replacement at this point. I would feel a little bit better if we had a full time AD in place.
 

I had the feeling he will get at least one more year no matter what. If the performances continue like the last two into February and March I am no longer sure he survives past this season.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I just don't trust our athletic department to make a good decision on the replacement at this point. I would feel a little bit better if we had a full time AD in place.
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You mean like the last "permanent" AD we had who was well established as an AD? The one who hired Richard and then gave him a hefty raise and extension after a disappointing season?

How hard is it to send out a search notice, send out some individual invitations to particular persons of interest, have some firm do preliminary background checks, do a wikipedia search (and consult other web stories) to get a coach's professional background and record of accomplishments, pick three to five people to interview, have some search committee members who have some history with the sport (at least as strong fans if nothing else), do some additional background checks on the finalists, meet with the invited candidates, and select one of them based on all of the above? Personally, I'd rather have an interim AD do this than a more established one. The interim AD may be less oriented to throwing his/her weight around and may be more oriented to picking a consensus candidate.
 

Thank god basketball, unlike football, has an early signing period. Imagine if we didn't have any of our recruits signed right now...
 

cjbfbp said:
You mean like the last "permanent" AD we had who was well established as an AD? The one who hired Richard and then gave him a hefty raise and extension after a disappointing season? How hard is it to send out a search notice, send out some individual invitations to particular persons of interest, have some firm do preliminary background checks, do a wikipedia search (and consult other web stories) to get a coach's professional background and record of accomplishments, pick three to five people to interview, have some search committee members who have some history with the sport (at least as strong fans if nothing else), do some additional background checks on the finalists, meet with the invited candidates, and select one of them based on all of the above? Personally, I'd rather have an interim AD do this than a more established one. The interim AD may be less oriented to throwing his/her weight around and may be more oriented to picking a consensus candidate.
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You assume these candidates will want to sign on with a boss who is interim. You also assume the permanent boss will actually want to keep the guy your interim hired. The logistics of making a change now aren't that tough, it's the actual work environment of it all.
 

Bad Gopher said:
That's very clear headed. Richard deserves a chance to show that he can get this team to improve in the remainder of the season, which would indicate he CAN teach fundamentals and teach a young team, and if he does that he deserves a shot with his new recruits next year.
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No matter what he deserves the rest of the season to pull the car out of the ditch. But it is buried at the moment. It will take a complete 180 to get it done.
 

cjbfbp said:
You mean like the last "permanent" AD we had who was well established as an AD? The one who hired Richard and then gave him a hefty raise and extension after a disappointing season?

How hard is it to send out a search notice, send out some individual invitations to particular persons of interest, have some firm do preliminary background checks, do a wikipedia search (and consult other web stories) to get a coach's professional background and record of accomplishments, pick three to five people to interview, have some search committee members who have some history with the sport (at least as strong fans if nothing else), do some additional background checks on the finalists, meet with the invited candidates, and select one of them based on all of the above? Personally, I'd rather have an interim AD do this than a more established one. The interim AD may be less oriented to throwing his/her weight around and may be more oriented to picking a consensus candidate.
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All fair points. I'm just hoping that the AD that is hired is a good one. In the current situation the athletic department is in I don't see a whole lot of quality candidates wanting the job. With a good AD, that could change to some degree.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Firing someone is the easy part. The hard part would be hiring someone to replace him. Who makes the final decision on the hire? How long would it take? Hiring a replacement in May that was your 20th option isn't good either.

I still think he will get at least one more year but wouldn't be too upset if he doesn't. Especially if things continue like this. I just don't trust our athletic department to make a good decision on the replacement at this point. I would feel a little bit better if we had a full time AD in place.
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No doubt having a permanent AD is preferable. But how different is this than when Maturi hired Kill? Maturi was on his way out. It had been announced. His successor was unknown at that time, IIRC. Granted, Kill was about the 5th choice and that might be part of the reason the first 4 said no. But it is not unprecedented to have the situation we are in.

Further, it is highly like that Goetz will be the permanent AD. Even if they are not ready to announce that publicly (though they should) it can certainly be assured to any coaching candidates. In any case, it really falls on Kaler to make sure they know they will have full backing no matter who's in charge.
 

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