Ten Gophers football players indefinately suspended

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badgergopher said:
Good point. Cheating on a test isn't against the law but is against the code of conduct and in theory could get you expelled. We need to stop pointing to the fact criminal charges were not filed as a reason the players should not be disciplined. The process needs to be based on evidence and on clear standards that are defined and in existence before the proceedings. As others have noted, universities across the country have struggled to create processes that model and respect commonly accepted judicial practices and individual rights.
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oh please. the idea of rogue, politically and highly ideologically motivated, university boards/committees like this feminist-activist EOAA board having any type of extra-judicial and/or disciplinary power above and beyond the actual U.S. court and prosecutor system is absurd and highly dangerous. through ideological lobbying and forced cooperation, via the threat of withholding federal funds to universities, ridiculous PC activists (with the help of often lawless Obama administration allies) have created dangerous fiefdoms of extra-judicial "law" on campuses where anything goes in terms of doling out their own versions of "punishment" and supposed "due process". it's wrong, it's unfair, and it's dangerous.

i hope the attorney for these players sues the ass off of the EOAA board at the U of M, the accuser, and anyone else here responsible for now unlawfully dragging these players names through the mud yet again.
 

After reading the ENTIRE article, I was certainly wrong. TC isn't the problem or at least the major problem. The problem is the PC police. Come on Coyle, Kahler, ignore the EOAA. They have one and only one thing in mind, justify their existence. Get the press behind them, get some notarity. Completely bogus- if not, why is it they waited until now to press the issue?
 

I haven't read this whole thread and I probably won't so I don't know if someone has said this yet or not but...

Maybe these players are just being punished for whatever happened that evening. Team and school rules may have been broken and the school is just holding these players out of the bowl game as punishment. Yes this sucks and I know why everyone is freaking out. But maybe these student athletes and their team mates will learn a lesson that will help them through life. Actions of consequences. Just because you aren't in trouble with the police doesn't mean you can't be in trouble with your family.
 

bottlebass said:
I haven't read this whole thread and I probably won't so I don't know if someone has said this yet or not but...

Maybe these players are just being punished for whatever happened that evening. Team and school rules may have been broken and the school is just holding these players out of the bowl game as punishment. Yes this sucks and I know why everyone is freaking out. But maybe these student athletes and their team mates will learn a lesson that will help them through life. Actions of consequences. Just because you aren't in trouble with the police doesn't mean you can't be in trouble with your family.
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Presumably possible, and if so, the school would be within their rights. However, given there lawyer is threatening to sue and 'expose the EOAA', that seems unlikely.
 

bottlebass said:
I haven't read this whole thread and I probably won't so I don't know if someone has said this yet or not but...

Maybe these players are just being punished for whatever happened that evening. Team and school rules may have been broken and the school is just holding these players out of the bowl game as punishment. Yes this sucks and I know why everyone is freaking out. But maybe these student athletes and their team mates will learn a lesson that will help them through life. Actions of consequences. Just because you aren't in trouble with the police doesn't mean you can't be in trouble with your family.
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you are essentially advocating for double jeopardy here. that is wrong and it is not fair. i guarantee 100% that you would NOT be singing this same ridiculous, "both sides" tune if the shoe was on the other foot and you yourself had already been cleared of something in an ACTUAL court of law, but were now being unlawfully and extra-judicially "prosecuted" and "punished" yet again by a rogue group of what are essentially feminist activists who didn't like the way the court ruled in your favor.

you would rightfully be beyond pissed and would say you were being unlawfully subjected to double jeopardy. which is what is happening to these players.
 


Jack jones said:
After reading the ENTIRE article, I was certainly wrong. TC isn't the problem or at least the major problem. The problem is the PC police. Come on Coyle, Kahler, ignore the EOAA. They have one and only one thing in mind, justify their existence. Get the press behind them, get some notarity. Completely bogus- if not, why is it they waited until now to press the issue?
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There seems to be a bit of a pattern or did people already forget about this? http://www.startribune.com/universi...assault-harassment-and-retaliation/333075411/
 

I might be wrong, but what I have gathered is that the U did its own investigation after the police performed an investigation. This situation was already over with and they brought it back up. Totally embarrassing. I want to love this team I grew up watching but they make it so hard to be a fan. There are no benefits to pouring your heart and soul into this program. I am starting to believe the people that say the football teams toughest opponent is the powers to be at the U of M.

This is not on Claeys. If he was not reprimanded last September, nothing should happen now.
 

We all follow college athletics here. Has ANYONE ever heard of a school acting on such a recommendation from their EOAA office? Especially AFTER the matter had been legally resolved? Especially a few days before a post-season contest?

This appears to be yet another gutless move by the U. A failure to defend its revenue athletics from those looking to take a piece of it.

I suppose the Pres and AD think they're justified in attempting to be be the anti-Baylor. But it really looks like they are not properly defending their students from an insatiable beauracracy.
 

supadupafly said:
you are essentially advocating for double jeopardy here. that is wrong and it is not fair. i guarantee 100% that you would NOT be singing this same ridiculous, "both sides" tune if the shoe was on the other foot and you yourself had already been cleared of something in an ACTUAL court of law, but were now being unlawfully and extra-judicially "prosecuted" and "punished" yet again by a rogue group of what are essentially feminist activists who didn't like the way the court ruled in your favor.

you would rightfully be beyond pissed and would say you were being unlawfully subjected to double jeopardy. which is what is happening to these players.
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how is it double jeopardy? it's the same thing as when the cops bring a teenager home to his parents, don't charge him, but then the parents discipline them. There is a code of conduct. I don't know if what the players did broke it, but a "party" with alcohol involved while minors are there probably would. Probably breaks basic team rules also.
 



MaxyJR1 said:
There seems to be a bit of a pattern or did people already forget about this? http://www.startribune.com/universi...assault-harassment-and-retaliation/333075411/
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you are publishing a year and a half old, reckless and unfair article that is filled with nothing but hear-say, unnamed sources, and filled almost entirely with quotes from an ideologically biased kimberly hewitt (the EOAA director) as suggestion of some pattern? that reckless and highly unfair article and the unsubstantiated claims within it have nothing to do with this particular matter. that old article was nothing but another cheap hit piece by the strib against U of M athletics.

these players were cleared in a court of law and this issue was closed by a court of law. saying these two disparate items suggest a pattern is unfair and disingenuous, at best.
 

citywok said:
A few things I would like to note for all the unhinged zealots out there (special shout out to oakstreet1981 for having some especially hot, brain-dead takes)

-EOAA isn't governed by law, it is governed by a student code of conduct, which is stricter than the law that Hennepin Co. used as an apparatus in this case. Therefore, what happened is likely an incident that falls in between the code of conduct and the law, but not on the other side of either one. Saying "the law cleared them, give it up" unfortunately doesn't apply here even though that would be easier.
-Related, these students are not bound by law and do not have a right to their education or athletic status, it is a privilege that is bestowed to them, and it can be taken away for seemingly minor reasons and unfortunately that seems to happen more and more on college campuses. But it also happens for totally valid reasons and if you have a child that is college-age you probably want a strong student code of conduct that is upheld in real world terms rather than just being a piece of paper (even at the expense of a working nickel package.... OH NO... WON'T SOMEBODY THINK ABOUT THE NICKEL PACKAGE??? I'LL MISS YOU, NICKEL PACKAGE). Not saying that is the case here, at first glance this seems like a stretch, but we also have little information to work with.
-Were I a betting man I would feel comfortable in wagering that the victim of this incident (who had said she wanted to just feel safe and move on) has nothing to do with this 10 person suspension, and EOAA are probably ruining her life too now.
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Thank you CityWok for putting this into perspective and explaining it well.
 

The university's conduct code explicitly states that "The University supports and is guided by state and federal law while also setting its own standards of conduct for its academic community."

The bolded part is what is being dealt with now. The university can find additional punishment in the absence of state or federal punishment, and the students may have violated the conduct code without violating any state or federal laws. We don't know if that is the case yet, the hearing and appeals process will play that out. Right now it appears all that has happened is that the EOAA has recommended sanctions, and the team has suspended the players as a result of those recommendations.
 

supadupafly said:
oh please. the idea of rogue, politically and highly ideologically motivated, university boards/committees like this feminist-activist EOAA board having any type of extra-judicial and/or disciplinary power above and beyond the actual U.S. court and prosecutor system is absurd and highly dangerous. through ideological lobbying and forced cooperation, via the threat of withholding federal funds to universities, ridiculous PC activists (with the help of often lawless Obama administration allies) have created dangerous fiefdoms of extra-judicial "law" on campuses where anything goes in terms of doling out their own versions of "punishment" and supposed "due process". it's wrong, it's unfair, and it's dangerous.

i hope the attorney for these players sues the ass off of the EOAA board at the U of M, the accuser, and anyone else here responsible for now unlawfully dragging these players names through the mud yet again.
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Obama's fault. Thanks, Obama.
 



A few reminders to people:
-As far as we are aware the initial accuser from the case is not involved
-The EOAA just give recommendations, with their evidence, to the student conduct office. From there it is up to them and the university to determine where the recommendations are rightful and carry out punishment
-We still don't know if new evidence was found, and for those saying "They were cleared it should have ended there" civil and criminal cases are reopened in court all the time due to independent investigations that find new evidence. Are you saying people shouldn't have the right to run their own investigation?
 

Gopher07 said:
The university's conduct code explicitly states that "The University supports and is guided by state and federal law while also setting its own standards of conduct for its academic community."

The bolded part is what is being dealt with now. The university can find additional punishment in the absence of state or federal punishment, and the students may have violated the conduct code without violating any state or federal laws. We don't know if that is the case yet, the hearing and appeals process will play that out. Right now it appears all that has happened is that the EOAA has recommended sanctions, and the team has suspended the players as a result of those recommendations.
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all the while completely and unfairly tarnishing their names and publicly dragging their names through the mud. give me break! imo, these school by school code of conduct sanctions and systems are a joke and make a mockery of law and order and the judicial system, which have already investigated and ruled in this matter.
 

supadupafly said:
you are publishing a year and a half old, reckless and unfair article that is filled with nothing but hear-say, unnamed sources, and filled almost entirely with quotes from an ideologically biased kimberly hewitt (the EOAA director) as suggestion of some pattern? that reckless and highly unfair article and the unsubstantiated claims within it have nothing to do with this particular matter. that old article was nothing but another cheap hit piece by the strib against U of M athletics.

these players were cleared in a court of law and this issue was closed by a court of law. saying these two disparate items suggest a pattern is unfair and disingenuous, at best.
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Kill acknowledges knowledge of the issues in the article with his comments.

One can separate legal from moral in opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

This sucks for the players who were .... just at the party.

Also sucks for Tracy who is trying to do his thing while this circus is busy going on.
 

citywok said:
A few things I would like to note for all the unhinged zealots out there (special shout out to oakstreet1981 for having some especially hot, brain-dead takes)

-EOAA isn't governed by law, it is governed by a student code of conduct, which is stricter than the law that Hennepin Co. used as an apparatus in this case. Therefore, what happened is likely an incident that falls in between the code of conduct and the law, but not on the other side of either one. Saying "the law cleared them, give it up" unfortunately doesn't apply here even though that would be easier.
-Related, these students are not bound by law and do not have a right to their education or athletic status, it is a privilege that is bestowed to them, and it can be taken away for seemingly minor reasons and unfortunately that seems to happen more and more on college campuses. But it also happens for totally valid reasons and if you have a child that is college-age you probably want a strong student code of conduct that is upheld in real world terms rather than just being a piece of paper (even at the expense of a working nickel package.... OH NO... WON'T SOMEBODY THINK ABOUT THE NICKEL PACKAGE??? I'LL MISS YOU, NICKEL PACKAGE). Not saying that is the case here, at first glance this seems like a stretch, but we also have little information to work with.
-Were I a betting man I would feel comfortable in wagering that the victim of this incident (who had said she wanted to just feel safe and move on) has nothing to do with this 10 person suspension, and EOAA are probably ruining her life too now.
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Well said. +1
 


supadupafly said:
all the while completely and unfairly tarnishing their names and publicly dragging their names through the mud. give me break! imo, these school by school code of conduct sanctions and systems are a joke and make a mockery of law and order and the judicial system, which have already investigated and ruled in this matter.
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I don't see it as any different than an employer having an employee code of conduct. If you work for a company in Seattle or Denver you can still be fired for smoking weed, even though it's legal in those states and even though it may not affect job performance. I do agree that making it extremely public is worrisome - some Joe Schmo who violates company policy isn't going to get his name plastered in the papers like these players are. But unfortunately in situations like these college athletics at a major university in a major sport is a high profile gig.
 

badgergopher said:
Good point. Cheating on a test isn't against the law but is against the code of conduct and in theory could get you expelled. We need to stop pointing to the fact criminal charges were not filed as a reason the players should not be disciplined. The process needs to be based on evidence and on clear standards that are defined and in existence before the proceedings. As others have noted, universities across the country have struggled to create processes that model and respect commonly accepted judicial practices and individual rights.
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You are correct that it's theoretically no different than cheating, but the way the feds have forced this on schools makes it no less unsettling.

Assume for a minute a student is wrongfully accused of cheating based solely on the words of another student. If they then expel the accused, and he suffers damages as a result (say they tell a potential employer he's a cheater) he can certainly sue, and would likely have a pretty good case.

In the real world, though, A) the damages of cheating aren't generally that significant (easier to just move on then launch a law suit), and more importantly, B) it's highly unlikely the school would inflict severe penalties based solely on another student's word.

In these situations, though, the damages are VERY high (literally life-changing: googling these guys will bring this up forever, and I believe these Title IX violations go on transcripts so it's a scarlet letter), and the school DOES largely rely solely on the accusation of another student.

Putting the schools in this situation is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
 

Gopher07 said:
I don't see it as any different than an employer having an employee code of conduct. If you work for a company in Seattle or Denver you can still be fired for smoking weed, even though it's legal in those states and even though it may not affect job performance. I do agree that making it extremely public is worrisome - some Joe Schmo who violates company policy isn't going to get his name plastered in the papers like these players are. But unfortunately in situations like these college athletics at a major university in a major sport is a high profile gig.
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Everyone seems to lose in what is happening. General public thinks something new happened and it hasn't. Potential innocent bystanders now have their name tied to the event.

Coaches have now lost the power to "Raise Men" which most have been trained to do.
 

Yeah I get that the players in the room with the girl had to know they were playing with fire. How that translates out to the players not in the room is troublesome. Last time I checked when you round up all the minorities in the area where a crime was committed and call them guilty by association that's called racism and we've had laws against that longer than Title IX has been around. This whole situation is a minefield for the university and the players. "How did you get kicked out of college? I made the mistake of being within 20 yards of adults having reportedly consenual sex."
 

LakerFan said:
Yeah I get that the players in the room with the girl had to know they were playing with fire. How that translates out to the players not in the room is troublesome. Last time I checked when you round up all the minorities in the area where a crime was committed and call them guilty by association that's called racism and we've had laws against that longer than Title IX has been around. This whole situation is a minefield for the university and the players. "How did you get kicked out of college? I made the mistake of being within 20 yards of adults having reportedly consenual sex."
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Are non football players being implicated in this as well? Are their grants/aid packages and any other benefits they are receiving from the U being stripped?
 

supadupafly said:
all the while completely and unfairly tarnishing their names and publicly dragging their names through the mud. give me break! imo, these school by school code of conduct sanctions and systems are a joke and make a mockery of law and order and the judicial system, which have already investigated and ruled in this matter.
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Why shouldn't a public or private university have a code of conduct? I believe it is reasonable to ask your student and student athletes to behave in a certain manner. The students are made aware of this when they agree to attend the university.
 

think of it this way (particularly those suggesting nothing is wrong with this absurd and reckless EOAA approach and extra-judicial disciplinary system here).

you are at an outside, non-work related party this coming Christmas where you witness (or perhaps don't even witness but you were simply just in the same building at the time) two work colleagues (or perhaps not even work colleagues) have a physical and/or verbal encounter which is perceived by each of them differently and results in a legal dispute. a dispute which is investigated, adjudicated and is then thrown out by a court of law.

4 months later a group of what are essentially rogue work colleagues who get to play judge, jury and executioner of their fellow employees for fun (who were appointed by who knows what process, by what merits, or by what ideological tests) gets to tell you that you can no longer come to work, you can no longer go on that work related trip to Hawaii which was a reward for the hard work you did all year managing your company's accounts or your non-profits accounts/clients, and that in fact you may lose your job and salary altogether.

not because you personally did anything wrong....but all because perhaps you are a high-profile, high-performing employee AND they don't like the fact that you were simply in physical attendance at that non-work related party...it is against their own "unique" "moral" standards to even be in attendance at such a party.

sounds pretty sh!tty huh? you would scream bloody murder that it is absolute b.s. and you would demand that this never be allowed to happen to you or anyone else ever again. and yes, i guarantee you would demand that if this scenario happened to you.

well that is essentially what this ridiculous charade of PC justice by the feminist-activist EOAA office is. it's a joke. and it has the potential to severely harm this program and all future recruiting....and likely not just in football.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
Are non football players being implicated in this as well? Are their grants/aid packages and any other benefits they are receiving from the U being stripped?
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This is a really good question. It's possible that this party (or whatever it was) was ONLY attended by football players. But not likely.
 

Hates Monikers said:
This is a really good question. It's possible that this party (or whatever it was) was ONLY attended by football players. But not likely.
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So 10 football players and 1 girl? I would think 10 words vs 1 word would probably put all of this to bed.
 

LakerFan said:
Yeah I get that the players in the room with the girl had to know they were playing with fire. How that translates out to the players not in the room is troublesome. Last time I checked when you round up all the minorities in the area where a crime was committed and call them guilty by association that's called racism and we've had laws against that longer than Title IX has been around. This whole situation is a minefield for the university and the players. "How did you get kicked out of college? I made the mistake of being within 20 yards of adults having reportedly consenual sex."
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Be careful trying to make this solely about race. If there were white people present that are not being implicated in the same way then yep 100% racism.
 


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