Ten Gophers football players indefinately suspended

[hungan1]

This is a really good question. It's possible that this party (or whatever it was) was ONLY attended by football players. But not likely.

" ... Are the EOAA board unfairly biased against minority male student athletes? IMHO, this is a fair question. Are the Title IX standards fairly being applied across the rest of the student population or the rest of the athletic teams, or are they focusing on African American basketball and football athletes because of their high visibility? ..."

This was my point. Were there other students at this party, and only the football players were singled out?

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

" ... Are the EOAA board unfairly biased against minority male student athletes? IMHO, this is a fair question. Are the Title IX standards fairly being applied across the rest of the student population or the rest of the athletic teams, or are they focusing on African American basketball and football athletes because of their high visibility? ..."

This was my point. Were there other students at this party, and only the football players were singled out?

That's what happened at Washington St.

Big fight at party..... only football players punished. Wait wat?

 

[Golden_Sloth]

Obama's fault. Thanks, Obama.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

This sucks for the players who were .... just at the party.

Also sucks for Tracy who is trying to do his thing while this circus is busy going on.

My question is were any other students at this party other than 10 players and one drunk woman? Are all the students at the party (men and women) being equally treated in this instance? Are they all suspended and were recommendations made for all or just the male athletes?

If a male athlete does nothing and is facing discipline then aren't the females and non-athletes at this party also equally liable? This is a big can of worms that is being opened by bringing in some students who were at a party but never named as a defendent in a crime and recommending punishment unless they are including all students and not just the football players.

 

[mootrack]

WTF is going one here?!

 

[Ewert86PC]

" ... Are the EOAA board unfairly biased against minority male student athletes? IMHO, this is a fair question. Are the Title IX standards fairly being applied across the rest of the student population or the rest of the athletic teams, or are they focusing on African American basketball and football athletes because of their high visibility? ..."

This was my point. Were there other students at this party, and only the football players were singled out?

On a parallel track, does the EOAA have any say in other departmental issues? Did they have any input/recommendations about the problems in the Psychology Department when it was discovered just how little oversight was there?

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

 

[MNVCGUY]

My question is were any other students at this party other than 10 players and one drunk woman? Are all the students at the party (men and women) being equally treated in this instance? Are they all suspended and were recommendations made for all or just the male athletes?

If a male athlete does nothing and is facing discipline then aren't the females and non-athletes at this party also equally liable? This is a big can of worms that is being opened by bringing in some students who were at a party but never named as a defendent in a crime and recommending punishment unless they are including all students and not just the football players.

That would be the big question. I am sure that if it is the case where only the football players are being targeted we will hear from Lee Hutton in this regard as he has not been shy about going public with details.

 

[supadupafly]

My question is were any other students at this party other than 10 players and one drunk woman? Are all the students at the party (men and women) being equally treated in this instance? Are they all suspended and were recommendations made for all or just the male athletes?

If a male athlete does nothing and is facing discipline then aren't the females and non-athletes at this party also equally liable? This is a big can of worms that is being opened by bringing in some students who were at a party but never named as a defendent in a crime and recommending punishment unless they are including all students and not just the football players.

isn't this is the same EOAA office (kimberly hewitt) at the U of M that wants to make consenting folks sign a permission slip before having sex?

 

[tikited]

This sucks for the players who were .... just at the party.

Also sucks for Tracy who is trying to do his thing while this circus is busy going on.

I was at a party at the U of M many years ago and was notified by a group much like the EOAA that I was needed to testify in a possible rape case involving people that were at the same party. I went and was blown away by how incredibly shoddy the whole "trial" was. It appeared to be more of a mock trial scenario than anything else. Practice for future lawyers while a student's future was being decided.

I sat with about ten other people in a hallway (in the basement of a older building) waiting to be called upon. The girl was hidden behind a curtain that you would see in a hospital. The guy sat in a chair. He had a student lawyer and the girl had a team of females from the group mentioned above. I quickly came to the conclusion that he was going to get railroaded and the decision was already made.

The questioning was beyond weird. I didn't know either person at all and didn't really have anything to offer to either side. I didn't see them do anything together, leave together, or anything else together. That didn't stop her side from trying to lead me to the answers they wanted. I was visibly pissed off at the whole thing and was told I could go back to the hallway. I distinctly remember one kid coming out later and declaring that, "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition." Made me laugh.

Over an hour later, I was called back in and asked the exact same questions. I answered the same way as the first time...that I didn't see anything or know anything about the two people involved. I left with some choice words for the kangaroo court system the U has going on.

I found out later that the whole thing was dropped and the guy continued to attend school while the girl left for another school. I was wrong about the outcome but I kind of get the feeling things haven't really changed over there over the years. Sounds like a certain kind of group will not let this drop and will continue to try and get what they want.

That's my story at least. Hopefully it turns out well for the guys if they truly are getting railroaded.

 

[DoubleAlum]

If I were President of the U, I would quickly assemble a group of very intelligent professors, including law professors, to examine in detail the process the EEOA went through to arrive at their recommendations, whether they complied with their own rules/regs such as impartial interviews with all the suspended players and whether they singled out athletes/blacks. I would demand that every email and memo regarding this investigation be read. I suspect there is a 50-50 chance that the EEOA committee violated their own stated guidelines and my committee would find a "smoking gun" that taints the EEOA decisions, in which case the suspensions should be lifted for now until a proper investigation is completed. If I found that the committee acted without strictly following their own guidelines or found that Hewitt and company were over zealous in coming to these conclusions, I would suspend them for negligent conduct. I would make sure that my decision was backed up with strong evidence to assure federal regulators that I was not trying to undermine Title IX objectives.

 

[salzie]

Wow, we live I this PC world where we are supposed to accept new definitions (same sex, does not matter to me) as OK, but when Kevin Dorsey is part of a 100 percent consentual relationship, then never plays again for the Gophers we have a big news story. So it is OK to be a big lesbian, but if a guy has group sex we go after him? Lots of people disagree with both, but one act gets sanctioned by a "secular" institution? BS


So are non-traditional sexual relationships OK or are they not? I guess Dorsey having sex with a woman who was 100 percent with that group plan, reason for drumming him out of the program. Who gets to decide the morals now? Gay relationships or OK, but now "poly" relationships are not OK? Who gets to make this decision?

This situation now with the football players draws out the hypocrisy. These players are getting legally screwed and the lack of any standards for these university panels is disgusting. This is Stalinist crap.

Umm the problem was putting video on Twitter

 

[Robemcdo]

Male students have no due process when academic-based bodies make charges. The national "rape crisis" on campuses has been exposed as a fraud in major articles in USA Today and other publications - it started with the misreading of statistics from a small sample at a small college in the East (remember, touching someone's elbow can be construed as "assault" these days). In this case, guilt by association seems added to the mix by our own PC zealots, as the additional kids now being punished were at the same party or apartment that Sept. 2 evening. Most will be cleared, in all likelihood, but the timing is vicious and the national publicity ruinous.

I'd think that accurate stats might have to consist of encounters where the girl has complained and the guy admits to it . Good luck finding some of those


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bemidjigopher]

Noooooooo!

Is Claeys losing control of his players?

Beth Goetz not here anymore to help run a tight ship. Shenanigans are running amok.

Jerry Kill was a stern disciplinarian, but fair.

Does this mean the players do not respect Claeys' authority?

We need Jerry Kill back in some capacity to help the football program.

Perhaps this is Claeys getting in front of something bigger and making it known that you can shape up or shape up, much like what Kill would've done. No one really know anything yet

 

[citywok]

Special shout out number two to supadupafly for their contributions to the ultra hot chili, brain-dead takes in the last few pages of this thread.

There was otherwise a lot of good discussion in there. Schools aren't equipped to handle this stuff well right now. I wonder how it will be 5-10 years from now. I have a few more points I want to make.

-Some people need a reality check, that EOAA and U officials fully realize how serious it is to suspend a group of 10 football players right now. There is no way in hell that they would go through with this, and leave themselves open to a ton of really serious financial and institutional repercussions, if there wasn't some sort of absolutely ironclad violation of the code of conduct, or at least that they are following a transparent and documented precedent for how to proceed with something like this.
-Until we hear that Coyle Charlie Brown Footballed this entire thing. But, you have to assume that isn't the case until it becomes obvious that it is.

-THIS isn't some sort of "PC charade" that is being carried out, you Eisenhower Warriors. A different argument is that the code of conduct as a whole contains "PC charades" and you are entitled to argue that... but this is on file and most importantly everybody affected by this is aware of it and has agreed to abide by it, for years and years at this point. There are no surprises, deal with it.

-To whoever said something like "this will hurt recruiting, why would you want your child to go to school in such a PC fantasy world like this?" I would say, worse is an institution where Baylor-like incidents are handled in that manner by those in charge. Right now there are 2 ways. This, or that. Until a third way becomes clear, figure out which side of the fence you will decide to stand on and deal with it, destroyed Nickel Package and all. I bet most side with this way of handling things rather than the Baylor method.

-People are creating group-think false realities about what this incident was. Nobody really knows, and we do not know the details of what actually was in violation of the code of conduct. Comment and think appropriately until then.

 

[bemidjigopher]

Depending on what the kids did, Clayes should just cut them all from the team to send a message. The player need to fear the consequence of losing the privilege of playing on the team due to of bad behavior. Kill did it one way that Clayes obviously isn't good at, so you have to find a different way.

Obviously we should wait to hear all the facts, but if this is related to the restraining order again, those players should be kicked off the team. Even if you didn't do anything, you don't go and continue to antagonize or harass someone who just dropped a restraining order against you.

Hoping Winfield and Green are just academic issues (i.e. professors saying there is no way they can pass a class, or they are on the cusp of failing), they really looked to have great futures ahead of them.

You take the Jimmy Johnson approach cut the one's who don't matter to prove they don't matter and the one's that do you put them through football's version of a concentration camp in practice

 

[GopherinPhilly]

isn't this is the same EOAA office (kimberly hewitt) at the U of M that wants to make consenting folks sign a permission slip before having sex?

Is there an app for that? Take the persons pic and then have them sign on the phone screen?

That is what it is coming to and I am so glad I am not in school anymore.

 

[oldauggie]

Well I can tell you as a parent of a daughter that is a sophomore at the U that it is comforting to know that there is something in place to deal with these guys if they deserve it. I am just as passionate about Gopher football as most of you but if these guys are guilty then throw the book at them and kick them out of school and do it yesterday. Parents need to know that this is the U of M and not Baylor or Alabama. Can we have competitive athletics? Yes, just look a the women's teams.

 

[raindog]

Special shout out number two to supadupafly for their contributions to the ultra hot chili, brain-dead takes in the last few pages of this thread.

There was otherwise a lot of good discussion in there. Schools aren't equipped to handle this stuff well right now. I wonder how it will be 5-10 years from now. I have a few more points I want to make.

-Some people need a reality check, that EOAA and U officials fully realize how serious it is to suspend a group of 10 football players right now. There is no way in hell that they would go through with this, and leave themselves open to a ton of really serious financial and institutional repercussions, if there wasn't some sort of absolutely ironclad violation of the code of conduct, or at least that they are following a transparent and documented precedent for how to proceed with something like this.
-Until we hear that Coyle Charlie Brown Footballed this entire thing. But, you have to assume that isn't the case until it becomes obvious that it is.

-THIS isn't some sort of "PC charade" that is being carried out, you Eisenhower Warriors. A different argument is that the code of conduct as a whole contains "PC charades" and you are entitled to argue that... but this is on file and most importantly everybody affected by this is aware of it and has agreed to abide by it, for years and years at this point. There are no surprises, deal with it.

-To whoever said something like "this will hurt recruiting, why would you want your child to go to school in such a PC fantasy world like this?" I would say, worse is an institution where Baylor-like incidents are handled in that manner by those in charge. Right now there are 2 ways. This, or that. Until a third way becomes clear, figure out which side of the fence you will decide to stand on and deal with it, destroyed Nickel Package and all. I bet most side with this way of handling things rather than the Baylor method.

-People are creating group-think false realities about what this incident was. Nobody really knows, and we do not know the details of what actually was in violation of the code of conduct. Comment and think appropriately until then.

I have not read this whole thread but have read two of your posts and I appreciate the thoughtful, reasoned posts.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

 

[TABinMO]

I think you assume too much. Just because the UofM has a process that looks the opposite of Baylor U does not mean that they got it right. We really do not know what the process was, but I surely would not assume that it was not flawed in some way or that it was a fair and independent process. The experience of Tikited above shows that they have done it wrong in some situations. We will learn more as time goes by, but I won't be surprised to learn that the EEOC process was biased, predetermined and basically unfair. Hopefully not, but we will see.

Special shout out number two to supadupafly for their contributions to the ultra hot chili, brain

 

[CentralGopher]

This whole thing just further bolsters my opinion and i am sure others opinion that there are people that have it out for the u as well as sports. Just provides some actual evidence. Sad really.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

-Some people need a reality check, that EOAA and U officials fully realize how serious it is to suspend a group of 10 football players right now. There is no way in hell that they would go through with this, and leave themselves open to a ton of really serious financial and institutional repercussions, if there wasn't some sort of absolutely ironclad violation of the code of conduct, or at least that they are following a transparent and documented precedent for how to proceed with something like this.
-Until we hear that Coyle Charlie Brown Footballed this entire thing. But, you have to assume that isn't the case until it becomes obvious that it is.

There's no reason to think that just because they did a thing that "There is no way in hell that they would go through with this, and leave themselves open to a ton of really serious financial and institutional repercussions". That's about as an absurd theory as I've heard here.

They did thing... must be right. wat?

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Here'S what I know - I'm not getting a damn thing done at work today. Spending way too much time on Gopher Hole!

 

[tato2001]

-Some people need a reality check, that EOAA and U officials fully realize how serious it is to suspend a group of 10 football players right now. There is no way in hell that they would go through with this, and leave themselves open to a ton of really serious financial and institutional repercussions, if there wasn't some sort of absolutely ironclad violation of the code of conduct, or at least that they are following a transparent and documented precedent for how to proceed with something like this.
-Until we hear that Coyle Charlie Brown Footballed this entire thing. But, you have to assume that isn't the case until it becomes obvious that it is.

-THIS isn't some sort of "PC charade" that is being carried out, you Eisenhower Warriors. A different argument is that the code of conduct as a whole contains "PC charades" and you are entitled to argue that... but this is on file and most importantly everybody affected by this is aware of it and has agreed to abide by it, for years and years at this point. There are no surprises, deal with it.

See, this is where your assumption is wrong. The issue is with the way these proceedings have developed (all over the country) just as was explained by another poster last night. They way the pressure from the federal government has come down is that in a he-said, she-said circumstance, if the school basically does anything other than believe the accuser, they are potentially in violation of Title IX. So what do they do? They construct a 'policy' definition of non-consensual sex that covers about 95% of all human sexual activity AND they don't follow any semblance of due process. Pretty easy to find the accused did something wrong in that case. "Hmm, by this definition, yep, you violated the policy." And once you are there, it's pretty hard to not institute harsh punishment ("Accused rapist assigned to write a paper on sexual assault" is not a headline the University wants). And so, "Expelled. Look how seriously we take sexual assault!"

By the definitions in place today I have been 'assaulted' by many women over the years, none of whom I believe would deserve expulsion or any punishment whatsoever (and I ain't no Cassanova).

Point is, you can't dis-aggregate a bad policy from it's bad enforcement. They go hand in hand. This isn't a made up anti-PC argument and we should all just shut up and trust the administration. There are literally DOZENS of lawsuits over this across the country currently. The Strib had an article on one down at Drake just a couple days ago, and there was one at St. Thomas recently, and potentially another in the works at St. Olaf.

If you want a reference check out the site a mom made: www.helpsaveoursons.com

 

[Hates Monikers]

Well I can tell you as a parent of a daughter that is a sophomore at the U that it is comforting to know that there is something in place to deal with these guys if they deserve it. I am just as passionate about Gopher football as most of you but if these guys are guilty then throw the book at them and kick them out of school and do it yesterday. Parents need to know that this is the U of M and not Baylor or Alabama. Can we have competitive athletics? Yes, just look a the women's teams.

Of course this is true. I think most on this board agree that women need to be protected. I also have a daughter at the U -- a freshman who has hung out with a few of these guys a few times. That worries me a little, and I'm glad the U takes this seriously. However, I believe this process stinks. There are young men in schools across the country facing the same situation. And suddenly five new guys are implicated here?

I understand schools have their own standards, and that's fine, but it seems like they're often guessing as to what happened. I want my daughter to be safe, but there has to be fairness.

 

[hungan1]

This whole thing just further bolsters my opinion and i am sure others opinion that there are people that have it out for the u as well as sports. Just provides some actual evidence. Sad really.

I have nothing against women board members, but when you put six women in a seven member board one would thing that poses a certain amount of bias.

 

[howeda7]

Special shout out number two to supadupafly for their contributions to the ultra hot chili, brain-dead takes in the last few pages of this thread.

There was otherwise a lot of good discussion in there. Schools aren't equipped to handle this stuff well right now. I wonder how it will be 5-10 years from now. I have a few more points I want to make.

-Some people need a reality check, that EOAA and U officials fully realize how serious it is to suspend a group of 10 football players right now. There is no way in hell that they would go through with this, and leave themselves open to a ton of really serious financial and institutional repercussions, if there wasn't some sort of absolutely ironclad violation of the code of conduct, or at least that they are following a transparent and documented precedent for how to proceed with something like this.
-Until we hear that Coyle Charlie Brown Footballed this entire thing. But, you have to assume that isn't the case until it becomes obvious that it is.

-THIS isn't some sort of "PC charade" that is being carried out, you Eisenhower Warriors. A different argument is that the code of conduct as a whole contains "PC charades" and you are entitled to argue that... but this is on file and most importantly everybody affected by this is aware of it and has agreed to abide by it, for years and years at this point. There are no surprises, deal with it.

-To whoever said something like "this will hurt recruiting, why would you want your child to go to school in such a PC fantasy world like this?" I would say, worse is an institution where Baylor-like incidents are handled in that manner by those in charge. Right now there are 2 ways. This, or that. Until a third way becomes clear, figure out which side of the fence you will decide to stand on and deal with it, destroyed Nickel Package and all. I bet most side with this way of handling things rather than the Baylor method.

-People are creating group-think false realities about what this incident was. Nobody really knows, and we do not know the details of what actually was in violation of the code of conduct. Comment and think appropriately until then.

Based on past U handling of similar situations, this is a generous assumption.

 

[Ski U Master]

Easiest way to avoid this is just to not gang bang chicks at parties.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Easiest way to avoid this is just to not gang bang chicks at parties.

Or just no sex!

 

[citywok]

Thank you, raindog!

TABinMO, maybe... but think for a second, they are suspending 10... t-e-n students for this. Nobody does that with a flawed process unless they are.... well.... just let me live in a reality where even the U isn't that terrifyingly stupid.

 

[bga1]

Based on past U handling of similar situations, this is a generous assumption.

No kidding. My guess is that if the "code of conduct" were this strictly enforced across the board, the U of M would have half the enrollment it currently has. It's good that there is one, it just appears to be unevenly enforced with a special focus on athletes. Quite the opposite from other noteworthy institutions who appear to protect their athletes from scrutiny in order to maintain athletic prominence. North Carolina comes to mind....

That said, the EOAA could be exactly right in this case, at this point few know the details.