Reporting In From Welsh Ryan

[Gophers2Omaha]

I'm as bummed as everyone but Tubby isn't going to work out

My take on the whole situation leaves me to believe Tubby has to be encouraged to resign or should flat out be fired after this season. I just hate typing that but I now believe it.

Here is how I see it:

Tubby came in with a splash. I can't even tell you how excited I was when we landed him. Big name coach, impeccable reputation, brought in a good recruiting class right out of the gate. Reached the NCAA tournament in years 2 and 3. The momentum was there. Things were going to happen! Couldn't wait to experience the fun I had during Clem's good teams. Yeah, Clem's success blew up into a monstrous scandal but I still had some great, great times.

Now, it is over. Transfers (no matter the reasons for them), injuries, and legal matters have extinguished all of the momentum and upside that existed. It can't be turned around. The ship has sailed. I just hate to admit it and want to hang on to that hope that I felt when Tubby arrived and through the first 3 years, but, "it" isn't going to happen in my opinion.

By keeping Tubby around we are simply prolonging the inevitable by 1, 2, or 3 years. We have to cut our losses to at least give this hoops program a chance to swing the pendulum the other way again. Yeah, the next coach may end up failing. He might not though. Precisely why it is a no brainer. There may be a mass player exodus if Tubby leaves. There might not though. If there isn't, the new coach is coming into a situation where there are a lot of young players on the team with potential. We've all seen Coleman, Dre, Austin, Mo (last season), Elliot, Chip, and even Oto all have those moments when we're thinking "this guy is going to make an impact on this team." If this core of young players continues to develop and Rodney returns a new coach has a very nice setup. He quite possibly makes the NCAAs in year one and/or year two. Momentum has been created once again. The coach has something to "sell" recruits. The pendulum is on the upswing.

Tubby may have all of the core group of young players and Rodney coming back as well. The difference is I honestly don't believe he can have any success with them. I've seen enough. A new coach might. I won't know until he gets here.

I rarely post and am very likely not going to respond to any other posts anytime soon but just had to get this off my chest.

Best of luck to the Gophers the rest of the way.

 

[zambam]

My take on the whole situation leaves me to believe Tubby has to be encouraged to resign or should flat out be fired after this season. I just hate typing that but I now believe it.

Here is how I see it:

Tubby came in with a splash. I can't even tell you how excited I was when we landed him. Big name coach, impeccable reputation, brought in a good recruiting class right out of the gate. Reached the NCAA tournament in years 2 and 3. The momentum was there. Things were going to happen! Couldn't wait to experience the fun I had during Clem's good teams. Yeah, Clem's success blew up into a monstrous scandal but I still had some great, great times.

Now, it is over. Transfers (no matter the reasons for them), injuries, and legal matters have extinguished all of the momentum and upside that existed. It can't be turned around. The ship has sailed. I just hate to admit it and want to hang on to that hope that I felt when Tubby arrived and through the first 3 years, but, "it" isn't going to happen in my opinion.

By keeping Tubby around we are simply prolonging the inevitable by 1, 2, or 3 years. We have to cut our losses to at least give this hoops program a chance to swing the pendulum the other way again. Yeah, the next coach may end up failing. He might not though. Precisely why it is a no brainer. There may be a mass player exodus if Tubby leaves. There might not though. If there isn't, the new coach is coming into a situation where there are a lot of young players on the team with potential. We've all seen Coleman, Dre, Austin, Mo (last season), Elliot, Chip, and even Oto all have those moments when we're thinking "this guy is going to make an impact on this team." If this core of young players continues to develop and Rodney returns a new coach has a very nice setup. He quite possibly makes the NCAAs in year one and/or year two. Momentum has been created once again. The coach has something to "sell" recruits. The pendulum is on the upswing.

Tubby may have all of the core group of young players and Rodney coming back as well. The difference is I honestly don't believe he can have any success with them. I've seen enough. A new coach might. I won't know until he gets here.

I rarely post and am very likely not going to respond to any other posts anytime soon but just had to get this off my chest.

Best of luck to the Gophers the rest of the way.

Firing Tubby after this year would be a disaster. We need to have our new AD in place first.

 

[cncmin]

Listening to most of you whine about performances leads me to wonder if all of you are posting drunk or high. Yeah, none of us are happy about another poor season in the Big Ten. But do you guys all forget that in each of the past two seasons:
(1) The team lost their best player (Nolen, then Mbakwe)
(2) The team had, effectively, only one senior on the team (Hoffarber, then Sampson)

The turnovers this season are largely due to a group of players who are either freshmen, or new to the team. The team hasn't gelled, but Tubby is partly to blame for that as well. I've always detested Tubby's substitution pattern. There is no excuse to continue to swap 5 guys at a time. It has never worked, not in the pre-season, when we're barely beating bad teams at Williams Arena because of it, and not during the Big Ten season, when we're losing to teams that we're more athletic than because of it.

I was one of the first people to post about negative things about Tubby's system back when everyone on this board acted like he was god. He deserved them then, for making the same mistakes he does now. However, you guys are going overboard acting like the sky is falling. The team has a lot of potential in the new few years with the players in the system. They are very young, almost Indiana-ish from a year or two ago. I'm not saying that they'll win a Big Ten championship with this crew or this coaching style, but they will improve. Take a deep breath, relax, and get over your hangovers.

 

[zambam]

Listening to most of you whine about performances leads me to wonder if all of you are posting drunk or high. Yeah, none of us are happy about another poor season in the Big Ten. But do you guys all forget that in each of the past two seasons:
(1) The team lost their best player (Nolen, then Mbakwe)
(2) The team had, effectively, only one senior on the team (Hoffarber, then Sampson)

The turnovers this season are largely due to a group of players who are either freshmen, or new to the team. The team hasn't gelled, but Tubby is partly to blame for that as well. I've always detested Tubby's substitution pattern. There is no excuse to continue to swap 5 guys at a time. It has never worked, not in the pre-season, when we're barely beating bad teams at Williams Arena because of it, and not during the Big Ten season, when we're losing to teams that we're more athletic than because of it.

I was one of the first people to post about negative things about Tubby's system back when everyone on this board acted like he was god. He deserved them then, for making the same mistakes he does now. However, you guys are going overboard acting like the sky is falling. The team has a lot of potential in the new few years with the players in the system. They are very young, almost Indiana-ish from a year or two ago. I'm not saying that they'll win a Big Ten championship with this crew or this coaching style, but they will improve. Take a deep breath, relax, and get over your hangovers.

Honestly, I understand what you are saying, but after watching such a pitiful performance where the coaches aren't even putting the players in a position to succeed, it's hard to want to extend them. And really, if they aren't extended, recruiting will be hurt because Tubby is coaching under a 2 year contract. I understand that there is youth on this team, but the coaching staff isn't even able to put them into positions to succeed. You just don't go with two guards passing across the top of the 1-3-1 like we did on a team with young players that don't pass well. You just don't. You are not putting them into a position to succeed.

 

[jamiche]

For being at the game (@Welsh Ryan) you missed a few observations:

1. Welsh Ryan isn't a dumb. It isn't great either. It is simply a small (by any standard) gym. In fact, the smallest in the big ten (I believe).
It's "vintage" ... would perhaps be a fair way to put it.

2. Welsh Ryan is an intimidating place to play. Just ask the scores of Big Ten stars who have played lousy games there over the last few decades. I can't explain. Nobody can. I think it's the small high school gym type atmosphere, the crazy lighting, and a offense by Carmody that makes you work and work and work some more.

3. Agree. The Gophers body language through this game sent a powerful signal that everything isn't kosher in the Gopher Hole.

4. The flex offense of the Gopher continues to amaze and frustrate. Remember: Tubby preaches defense ...BUT teams like Iowa and Northwestern, who run a set group of play over and over, simply outwork their opponents. They frustrate their opponents with their work ethic. Northwestern like many teams in the Big Ten, have been skillfully told how to play a "bump" defense. Big Ten coaches more and more on their weekly chats describe the "bump" defense in different words. (It's was a war! It was a street fight!) The Gopher are a "soft" team.
Our biggest feather (Sampson) was simply an none factor. Either was Rodney!

5. Carmody is a good coach! He constantly talks to his players about their mistakes. He wants perfection. He abhors turnovers! We just seem to substitute, when things aren't going right.

Fortunately, Illinois is wilting right now also. Purdue just took a big hit. The Gophers will still have a shot. Monson just lost his first Big West game (of the season) tonight to Creighton 81-79.

W/R's concourses are snake like; the concessions are few and far between with minimal selections; terrible ventilation; lousy lighting and sightlines; few restrooms; minimal in game statistics; 1983 vintage scoreboard; and not enough noise to make it a snake pit.

I usupect that the reason that top scorers don't score so well is Carmoudy's deliberate offense and excellent defense. Probably fewer and better contested sho attempts. Just a guess.

 

[CrocShots]

Every thread is turning into a Tubby attack/defense thread. Also being there, the seats SUCK and the rows are too close often leading for people over 5' 2" digging their knees into the person in front of them's back or awkwardly straddling them. I actually liked the small, high school feel of the arena, but not having a video board/out of town scoreboard was frustrating.

The players on the floor had no idea what to do with the 1-3-1. when NW switched to man, we went on a nice run. The two guys outside the arc just passed the ball back and forth to each other, THE ENTIRE GAME, and rarely got the ball to the corner, ball side, where a post player should have been posting up on the bottom of the cross. that would have given us significantly more room. there were players in the corners as the coaches instructed, but Joe, Andre and Welch NEVER looked that way.

The ball, like a lot of the games we've seen is not moving anywhere near as fast as it needs to. That's not coaching, that's inexperience.

 

[gopherinpain]

That's not coaching, that's inexperience.

I have seen some awfully talented freshman and sophomore guards over the years that have led their team to victory and an NCAA birth. We do not have that talent. The hope with Tubby coming here was that he could recruit "decent" talent and then coach them up with his experience and coaching savvy. After 5 years with all the transfers and disappointing players (yes ralph and rodney that is you), the program is not nearly where we had hoped. Tubby consistently blames his players game after game and never takes responsibility for any part of it. How hard is it to say "We were not prepared enough for the 1-3-1 zone and that falls on me"?

 

[bigticket1]

That has been the signature trademark of the macturi ten years of tenure at the University of Minnesota: the BUYOUT. How many millions has b(s)jm paid out to buy out coaches? Surely his "tubby-like" hire will show everyone what a great ad macturi has been...
; 0 (

So if you were AD after Monson was canned and you had the opportunity to hire Tubby,you seriously wouldn't have done it ?

 

[Gopher Warrior]

The ball, like a lot of the games we've seen is not moving anywhere near as fast as it needs to. That's not coaching, that's inexperience.

Yeah.. Northwestern is in a similar spot. Darn PG is a true freshman. How do they get by with crappy performances like last night's outing from Dave Sobolewski? His inexperience limited him to 22 pts in 35 minutes.. 6/10 shooting (4/5 3FG) and 6/8 from ** the line **.

Or another Big Ten game yesterday.. that Trey Burke kid. Another true freshman running the point for his team. Poor Michigan. 17 points and 5 assists from the inexperienced kid. Rough outing in his team's victory over #6 Ohio State.

 

[CrocShots]

Keep whining everyone, Tubby's not getting canned.

This is a young team.

Coleman: Freshman, EE: RS Freshman, Andre Hollins: Freshman, Ausin Hollins: Sophmore, Williams: Junior, Oto: RS Freshman,

Michigan and NW also have strong senior leadership. And Eventually when the Kentucky argument comes up, they play a completely different style than we do and have a lineup of 5 future pros.

 

[howieramone]

Listening to most of you whine about performances leads me to wonder if all of you are posting drunk or high. Yeah, none of us are happy about another poor season in the Big Ten. But do you guys all forget that in each of the past two seasons:
(1) The team lost their best player (Nolen, then Mbakwe)
(2) The team had, effectively, only one senior on the team (Hoffarber, then Sampson)

The turnovers this season are largely due to a group of players who are either freshmen, or new to the team. The team hasn't gelled, but Tubby is partly to blame for that as well. I've always detested Tubby's substitution pattern. There is no excuse to continue to swap 5 guys at a time. It has never worked, not in the pre-season, when we're barely beating bad teams at Williams Arena because of it, and not during the Big Ten season, when we're losing to teams that we're more athletic than because of it.

I was one of the first people to post about negative things about Tubby's system back when everyone on this board acted like he was god. He deserved them then, for making the same mistakes he does now. However, you guys are going overboard acting like the sky is falling. The team has a lot of potential in the new few years with the players in the system. They are very young, almost Indiana-ish from a year or two ago. I'm not saying that they'll win a Big Ten championship with this crew or this coaching style, but they will improve. Take a deep breath, relax, and get over your hangovers.

+1

 

[Unregistered User]

Yeah.. Northwestern is in a similar spot. Darn PG is a true freshman. How do they get by with crappy performances like last night's outing from Dave Sobolewski? His inexperience limited him to 22 pts in 35 minutes.. 6/10 shooting (4/5 3FG) and 6/8 from ** the line **.

And Northwestern logged 140 minutes from Jr. and Sr. players. Minnesota logged 87 minutes and 34 of those came from a first year player (Welch).

 

[jovs]

Extend Tubby, give him going rate 2 million, little to nothing on a buyout, if he doesn't agree to it say goodbye. If he performs he works through the end of the contract, if not he is gone with little payout.

 

[minngg]

Keep whining everyone, Tubby's not getting canned.

This is a young team.

Coleman: Freshman, EE: RS Freshman, Andre Hollins: Freshman, Ausin Hollins: Sophmore, Williams: Junior, Oto: RS Freshman,

Michigan and NW also have strong senior leadership. And Eventually when the Kentucky argument comes up, they play a completely different style than we do and have a lineup of 5 future pros.

This is Tubby's 5th year and we have our hopes pinned on mediocre freshmen? I've seen enough of mediocre coaching and recruiting. Where are our seniors? Juniors? Love your optimism, but not your insight.

 

[anonymous]

I only have one question from the folks who were at Welsh-Ryan: Was FOT there? Did he and his crush OTS embrace after the game?

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

Listening to most of you whine about performances leads me to wonder if all of you are posting drunk or high. Yeah, none of us are happy about another poor season in the Big Ten. But do you guys all forget that in each of the past two seasons:
(1) The team lost their best player (Nolen, then Mbakwe)
(2) The team had, effectively, only one senior on the team (Hoffarber, then Sampson)

The turnovers this season are largely due to a group of players who are either freshmen, or new to the team. The team hasn't gelled, but Tubby is partly to blame for that as well. I've always detested Tubby's substitution pattern. There is no excuse to continue to swap 5 guys at a time. It has never worked, not in the pre-season, when we're barely beating bad teams at Williams Arena because of it, and not during the Big Ten season, when we're losing to teams that we're more athletic than because of it.

I was one of the first people to post about negative things about Tubby's system back when everyone on this board acted like he was god. He deserved them then, for making the same mistakes he does now. However, you guys are going overboard acting like the sky is falling. The team has a lot of potential in the new few years with the players in the system. They are very young, almost Indiana-ish from a year or two ago. I'm not saying that they'll win a Big Ten championship with this crew or this coaching style, but they will improve. Take a deep breath, relax, and get over your hangovers.

I know this isn't the gist of your post, but Rodney, who is a Junior, led the team in turnovers with 5 last night. Disconcerting. I like Rodney too, really not wanting to rag on him.

 

[imthewalrus]

So if you were AD after Monson was canned and you had the opportunity to hire Tubby,you seriously wouldn't have done it ?

For more than two million a season, (more than twice as much as the football coach), I would have gone for a BIG NAME football coach to usher in the nearly 300 million dollar new stadium in style. macturi has had such a MISERABLE run with the revenue sport coaches that it is totally unbelievable. Pathetic. Unforgivable.

By the way, Monson had so many restrictions, losses of scholarship, related to the haskin's scandal and he still did about as well as tubby has done.

Perhaps Minnesota is just a tough place to win at? People blasted Mason and Monson, but, we really haven't had anything better since them. Hopefully, Coach Kill can start winning more than 40% of his Big Ten Football Games.

What do YOU think about Tubby? It seems to me as though things have been better for Tubby re: scholarships, no recruiting restrictions, etc. Why hasn't he done better than he has. Look at the Big Ten wins vs. Big Ten losses for this season, last season and ever since he has arrived. At over 2 million a year, he appears to have really under-achieved.

It's really too bad for everyone involved...for all of us...

 

[Gold Vision]

Yeah.. Northwestern is in a similar spot. Darn PG is a true freshman. How do they get by with crappy performances like last night's outing from Dave Sobolewski? His inexperience limited him to 22 pts in 35 minutes.. 6/10 shooting (4/5 3FG) and 6/8 from ** the line **.

Or another Big Ten game yesterday.. that Trey Burke kid. Another true freshman running the point for his team. Poor Michigan. 17 points and 5 assists from the inexperienced kid. Rough outing in his team's victory over #6 Ohio State.

Impossible. Freshman PGs don't do anything in their first seasons, so we shouldn't expect that. Someone once told me that.

 

[howieramone]

Yeah.. Northwestern is in a similar spot. Darn PG is a true freshman. How do they get by with crappy performances like last night's outing from Dave Sobolewski? His inexperience limited him to 22 pts in 35 minutes.. 6/10 shooting (4/5 3FG) and 6/8 from ** the line **.

Or another Big Ten game yesterday.. that Trey Burke kid. Another true freshman running the point for his team. Poor Michigan. 17 points and 5 assists from the inexperienced kid. Rough outing in his team's victory over #6 Ohio State.

Maybe you could use some of your voodoo statistics and show us how freshman PG's have fared in the B1G over the years. Take it easy on yourself and just show X-Gophers.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

Gopherinpain and Minngg both never have anything positive to say about the basketball team even when they're winning.

 

[BOUNDOUTPASSDUNK]

Walker, Trevor/Rodney, Hollins 'Bros' and Welch...Walker with EE will make a big difference down low particularly if Trevor and/or Rodney return. Let's keep the depression situational and not in an acute phase folks!

 

[SelectionSunday]

If there's one guy I'd guess will transfer after this season, it would be Chip. He's clearly not happy. Not great body language last night from what I saw. We're all frustrated.

We need something good to happen down the stretch, beat a couple good teams, so that we don't end like we did last season. I hate that it's where we're at, but this is an occasion when the NIT could do us some good. Problem is, our remaining schedule isn't exactly conducive to winning games the way we're playing. Sparty & IU are two of the hottest teams in the league, and winning in Madison equally seems like a pipedream at this point.

 

[Parski1]

Gopherinpain and Minngg both never have anything positive to say about the basketball team even when they're winning.

+1000

 

[bigticket1]

For more than two million a season, (more than twice as much as the football coach), I would have gone for a BIG NAME football coach to usher in the nearly 300 million dollar new stadium in style. macturi has had such a MISERABLE run with the revenue sport coaches that it is totally unbelievable. Pathetic. Unforgivable.

By the way, Monson had so many restrictions, losses of scholarship, related to the haskin's scandal and he still did about as well as tubby has done.

Perhaps Minnesota is just a tough place to win at? People blasted Mason and Monson, but, we really haven't had anything better since them. Hopefully, Coach Kill can start winning more than 40% of his Big Ten Football Games.

What do YOU think about Tubby? It seems to me as though things have been better for Tubby re: scholarships, no recruiting restrictions, etc. Why hasn't he done better than he has. Look at the Big Ten wins vs. Big Ten losses for this season, last season and ever since he has arrived. At over 2 million a year, he appears to have really under-achieved.

It's really too bad for everyone involved...for all of us...

Hindsight is always 20/20. I agree that Tubby has under-achieved,and that he needs to get things turned around next season or be shown the door. All I am saying is that 5 years ago,given the state of the program,that 99.99 % of the posters here would have done the same thing Maturi did in hiring Tubby Smith.

 

[jamiche]

Hindsight is always 20/20. I agree that Tubby has under-achieved,and that he needs to get things turned around next season or be shown the door. All I am saying is that 5 years ago,given the state of the program,that 99.99 % of the posters here would have done the same thing Maturi did in hiring Tubby Smith.

This is not intended to be self serving because I very quickly became enthusiastic about the hire. When the rumors first surfaced about a possible Tubby hire I was not in favor of it because I thought the best route was to bring in a young, aggressive coach from a mid major program. My choice at the time was the coach at Southern Illinois (can't remember his name) because I had just seen his team put on one of the most dominant defensive performances I'd ever seen. It was everything that Monson teams lacked. I thought that Tubby was a tired "brand" but I quickly bought in because of the prestige factor. It really doesn't matter anyway.

Going forward the change has to be made this year in order to have any chance of salvaging the Tyus Jones/Rashad Vaughn recruiting year. There is virtually no chance that they will play for Tubby in the current climate. He hasn't delivered a winning product and, more importantly, he's the least likely coach of the ones they are considering to deliver the NBA.

 

[zambam]

This is not intended to be self serving because I very quickly became enthusiastic about the hire. When the rumors first surfaced about a possible Tubby hire I was not in favor of it because I thought the best route was to bring in a young, aggressive coach from a mid major program. My choice at the time was the coach at Southern Illinois (can't remember his name) because I had just seen his team put on one of the most dominant defensive performances I'd ever seen. It was everything that Monson teams lacked. I thought that Tubby was a tired "brand" but I quickly bought in because of the prestige factor. It really doesn't matter anyway.

Going forward the change has to be made this year in order to have any chance of salvaging the Tyus Jones/Rashad Vaughn recruiting year. There is virtually no chance that they will play for Tubby in the current climate. He hasn't delivered a winning product and, more importantly, he's the least likely coach of the ones they are considering to deliver the NBA.

I honestly don't think the change can be made this year. Who is going to make the hire?

 

[jamiche]

I honestly don't think the change can be made this year. Who is going to make the hire?

You may be right, but why can't it be Kaler or Kaler with Maturi as the front man?

 

[zambam]

You may be right, but why can't it be Kaler or Kaler with Maturi as the front man?

It is a lot harder to hire a coach when you don't have the guy who is going to be his boss for the foreseeable future already in house. If that coach starts to struggle it would be really easy for the new AD to pull the plug and say "Hey, he wasn't my guy to begin with."

 

[howieramone]

This is not intended to be self serving because I very quickly became enthusiastic about the hire. When the rumors first surfaced about a possible Tubby hire I was not in favor of it because I thought the best route was to bring in a young, aggressive coach from a mid major program. My choice at the time was the coach at Southern Illinois (can't remember his name) because I had just seen his team put on one of the most dominant defensive performances I'd ever seen. It was everything that Monson teams lacked. I thought that Tubby was a tired "brand" but I quickly bought in because of the prestige factor. It really doesn't matter anyway.

Going forward the change has to be made this year in order to have any chance of salvaging the Tyus Jones/Rashad Vaughn recruiting year. There is virtually no chance that they will play for Tubby in the current climate. He hasn't delivered a winning product and, more importantly, he's the least likely coach of the ones they are considering to deliver the NBA.

The U is not going to cut a check for $4,000,000 over where two 15 year-olds may or may not go to college.

 

[minngg]

Gopherinpain and Minngg both never have anything positive to say about the basketball team even when they're winning.

Hey Johnny you just joined in January. How many games have we won since then? You have 6 posts and you say I have never said anything positive? Funny stuff. Why don't you and Patski drum up a list of new excuses for Tubby.