Possible TCF Beer Garden that has U support?

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People want to have a beer or two at a football game. It's not that big a deal. You're projecting again.

It is that big a deal. Aside from Prohibition, college football and alcohol have co-existed legally in this country for over 140 years continuously. Why has no Big Ten team ever, ever, ever even once made alcohol available to the general public at a football game? Ever? I mean, not even once. In over 130 years. They must think it's a pretty big deal. Thankfully, the decision-makers at the Big Ten universities think it is "that big a deal" and don't take the advice of anonymous idiot Sigmund Fraud on a random message board.
 

Keep in mind Wisconsin's #1 business is producing and selling beer.

:drink:
 

You are watching amateur athletes. If you can't go 4 hours without having alcohol, you have a problem and need treatment. Why should we stop at college games? Should they start selling beer at HS football games too? How about Little League? Piano recitals? Can't sit through Timmy's t-ball game without a brewski in your hand?

A university should not be in the business of selling alcohol to its own students, regardless of whether they are of legal age or not. The purpose of a university is to educate, not inebriate. If available to the suites only, it is true that some University students would undoubtedly be sold alcohol by the University, but they would be a select few and would have paid handsomely for the privilege. Under no circumstances should a university be selling alcohol to its own students when the barrier they had to overcome was a $10 (or less) ticket to a football game.

It is good to be a trailblazer and start a trend in some aspects, but being the first to sell alcohol to the general student population, at a university function, on university property, is not one of them. There are many reasons why not a single Big Ten university sells alcohol to the general student population at university events.

I always enjoy your Quiotic attempts at promoting prohibition of alcohol at sports venues.
 

I always enjoy your Quiotic attempts at promoting prohibition of alcohol at sports venues.

First of all, if you're going to use your word of the day calendar while posting, at least have the calendar available for cross-referencing proper spelling and capitalization before typing it.

Second of all, you're completely mischaracterizing my argument. (Shocking on this forum, I know.) Sell beer at Target Field, Target Center, Metrodome, and the X all you want. Those are private companies selling a private product to private citizens who have paid an unsubsidized ticket price to watch paid athletes perform. Other than them both being sports, it would be difficult for the situations to be more different.
 

I like the idea!

I am not somebody that NEEDS to have a beer every 4 hours but I would enjoy a beer or two at Gopher games. I enjoy a beer or two when I go the vikes and twins games. I'm big on personal responsibility and when I was in college I was able to obtain as much alcohol as I wanted prior to or after attending football games. I don't believe these kids are going to come to the football game because its easy to get beer there and get drunk, they can achieve that easy enough other places.
 


Some people. Some people would like to smoke a pack of Newports during a football game.
I assume that would be fine as well.

GREAT comparison.

Anyway, especially for a have-not school like the U, progressive and creative revenue solutions should always be on the table, regardless if others have used them or not. That's the most archaic, damaging form of thinking.

I agree the legislature should stay out of it, but if the U decides to sell some 3.2 swill to add a couple million to the bottom line every year then I'm all for it. Sorry I don't get all judgmental like the teetotalers around here.
 

Sorry I don't get all judgmental like the teetotalers around here.

I'm not a teetotaler at all. I drink responsibly and enjoy myself at the appropriate times and locations. I've shown up to many games at TCF partially or fully inebriated. Keep making sh*t up, though.
 

You are watching amateur athletes. If you can't go 4 hours without having alcohol, you have a problem and need treatment. Why should we stop at college games? Should they start selling beer at HS football games too? How about Little League? Piano recitals? Can't sit through Timmy's t-ball game without a brewski in your hand?

A university should not be in the business of selling alcohol to its own students, regardless of whether they are of legal age or not. The purpose of a university is to educate, not inebriate. If available to the suites only, it is true that some University students would undoubtedly be sold alcohol by the University, but they would be a select few and would have paid handsomely for the privilege. Under no circumstances should a university be selling alcohol to its own students when the barrier they had to overcome was a $10 (or less) ticket to a football game.

It is good to be a trailblazer and start a trend in some aspects, but being the first to sell alcohol to the general student population, at a university function, on university property, is not one of them. There are many reasons why not a single Big Ten university sells alcohol to the general student population at university events.

Pedoodle, I usually disagree with your posts or get flamed by you for posting off topic. But on this I agree with you. I think the obsession with alcohol on the part of some people is kind of weird. I think there's something virtuous about the U declining to be a distributor of alcohol to its students, and that comes from a guy who has no objection to alcohol personally.
 

The WSJ link that was posted earlier noted that the city of Memphis expected to net roughly $200,000 per year by selling beer in the Liberty Bowl. I'm interested to see how the U could net "a couple million" by opening a beer garden seven days per year.
 



The WSJ link that was posted earlier noted that the city of Memphis expected to net roughly $200,000 per year by selling beer in the Liberty Bowl. I'm interested to see how the U could net "a couple million" by opening a beer garden seven days per year.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that they had to reduce the premium seat pricing when the legislature changed the alcohol rules at the last minute. Also, that figure likely includes alcohol profits for The Barn and Mariucci, which also had to be discontinued in the premium seats when the legislature changed things. The figure may also be the gross profits rather than the net profits.
 

When talking about atmosphere and making it better, I believe this could be a good step towards more development around the stadium. This could lead to other opportunities around the stadium on U property and could help create a more festive atmosphere (more cart vendors, food vendors, etc.) A beer garden on the plaza would be nice and something fun for fans. My concern would be people being over-served but there are ways to over come this:

1)Make fans purchase a $10 punch card with a limit of 6 beers per ticket holder.

2)Lines will be long during half time and less so in between quarters, so the prospect of someone coming back over and over is lessened

3)Limit of two per purchase

4)Create and fully enforce a code specifically geared toward drunken and unruly fans.

Overall I like the idea and don't think it degrades the U's standing as an academic institution. If this is done right (which knowing the U it would be, especially with this controversial of a measure) it could be a nice addition. Instead of bringing in a Budweiser or Miller, it would be nice to see it be a local brewery (New Ulm, Surly), or include other minor local brewers and showcase U grads, and really make it more of a "taste of Minnesota" instead of a drunken show.
 


I am not somebody that NEEDS to have a beer every 4 hours but I would enjoy a beer or two at Gopher games. I enjoy a beer or two when I go the vikes and twins games. I'm big on personal responsibility and when I was in college I was able to obtain as much alcohol as I wanted prior to or after attending football games. I don't believe these kids are going to come to the football game because its easy to get beer there and get drunk, they can achieve that easy enough other places.

I agree with this. Any student who wants to get bombed before or during the game most certainly can. The ones that want to drink can sneak in hard liquor fairly easy. If this can make the university money, then I don't really see the issue. The majority of people won't be willing to spend a small fortune to get drunk at the stadium anyways. Most will buy a few beers tops.
 



I enjoy a beer or two when I go the vikes and twins games.

I'm sure you do a good job of policing yourself, but booze is the single reason I have yet to take my two boys to a Vikings game. It's like a competition to see who can get the drunkest there.

I swear a lot, but never at games. I like to be aware of who is around me. That puts me in the minority at Vikings games.
 

It is that big a deal. Aside from Prohibition, college football and alcohol have co-existed legally in this country for over 140 years continuously. Why has no Big Ten team ever, ever, ever even once made alcohol available to the general public at a football game? Ever? I mean, not even once. In over 130 years. They must think it's a pretty big deal. Thankfully, the decision-makers at the Big Ten universities think it is "that big a deal" and don't take the advice of anonymous idiot Sigmund Fraud on a random message board.

Fantastic! The U is finally coming to its senses on this issue. Unfortunately, dopedoll has lost his senses and and it looks like he may never find them. This is NOT about selling beer to students so they can get drunk. It IS about selling a legal product to adults who pay a large share of the money to support Gopher sports and who want to enjoy one or two $8.00 beers while watching their favorite football team play in the stadium they helped to build.

This is great news for me because I have been the biggest advocate for beer at Gopher football games in GopherHole. I knew this day would come and I am taking partial credit for my multiple year campaign to make it happen. The U's budget problems are too large and there is just just too much money at stake for them not to do this.

The beer garden needs to be on the top level of the stadium so those who want can watch the game while having a brew. Nobody gets in the beer garden without an ID and nobody leaves with a beer in their hand. It will work perfectly.
 

The WSJ link that was posted earlier noted that the city of Memphis expected to net roughly $200,000 per year by selling beer in the Liberty Bowl. I'm interested to see how the U could net "a couple million" by opening a beer garden seven days per year.

Possibly they could be including increased advertising revenue as well.

Don't know how the calculated it, but it's a pretty big number.
 

I really don't see what the big deal is? Northrup serves alcohol during concerts and these concerts are university events. I don't see what the difference is? Beer was sold at the Metrodome for years and I don't think it degraded the university at all; granted the Metrodome wasn't on campus. I'm all for it since it would bring in tons of cash for the University.
 

It is that big a deal. Aside from Prohibition, college football and alcohol have co-existed legally in this country for over 140 years continuously. Why has no Big Ten team ever, ever, ever even once made alcohol available to the general public at a football game? Ever? I mean, not even once. In over 130 years. They must think it's a pretty big deal. Thankfully, the decision-makers at the Big Ten universities think it is "that big a deal" and don't take the advice of anonymous idiot Sigmund Fraud on a random message board.

The Gophers did for almost 30 years at the dome.
 

The U is finally coming to its senses on this issue.
You probably want to temper your enthusiasm. Only one source says the U is on board and they do so with a single sentence and no quotes from U officials. The 2nd source doesn't even discuss the U's opinion on the bill. I've yet to find another source (neither the STrib nor PiPress have anything on the bill that I can find).

I wouldn't assume that the initial report of the U's support for the measure is true yet.
 

The Gophers did for almost 30 years at the dome.

Where they didn't control the sale because it wasn't a U facility. EDIT: Sorry, didn't see your earlier post where you noted this.
 

You're making sh*t up again. I said that people who can't go 4 hours without alcohol need treatment. That is a fact and is pretty clear to anyone.

If you want to rip me on something, rip me on my equating people who think they absolutely must have beer at college football games to alcoholics.

You're really, really terrible at this.


Here, I cherry picked a quote from an epidemiologic handout by the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism at the NIH: "According to the most recent National Vital Statistics Report (Hoyert, Kochanek, & Murphy, 1999), age-adjusted death rates from alcohol misuse declined from 1979 to 1997."

Not making "sh*t" up. Sales of alcohol nationally in 2009 and 2010 declined in consecutive years. This file shows historical trends for total alcohol consumption per person in the US in common alcohol units. It has remained somewhat constant but with a slightly lower trend over time. Make of this what you will. Because a University wants to promote abstinance does not make abstinance a reality. I recent MNDaily article quoted guys who want to drink at the beer garden as stating that they would otherwise get wasted prior to the game, instead of stretching out their alcohol consumption during the game. In other words, they would prefer not to get smashed prior to the game, but just stay a bit buzzed and not as alcohol laden during the games. I think the later option is not only healthier, but much less risky behavior. These students are claiming that their overall level of alcohol abuse would be less with a place to imbibe socially during the game. That conforms to models of alcohol use in social settings across the strata. More availability does not mean automatic abuse. It means more controlled use by users, and less pressure to get wasted. As an Abstainer of alcohol, I was Less Frequent drinker in college of maybe drinking 1-3 times per month, all on campus, in the dorm, in my room with friends. Now, post college, I drink maybe 2 times per quarter.

alcohol.jpg


To quote further on the NIH site: "Per capita ethanol consumption consistently increased from the mid 1880's until 1915, and decreased just prior to enactment of Prohibition in 1919. After Prohibition ended in 1934, consumption of all types of alcohol continued to ncrease until the 1950's. The overall per capita level of alcohol consumption peaked in 1975, and began to decline during the 1980's. The decline has continued with consumption dropping 43% since 1975."

We are a nation of self regulating consumers who needs little extra attention to alcohol consumption from the likes of the administration. There seems to be a long term trend which continues to this day in terms of total per capita alcohol sales in the US. Dpo, I enjoy your vigilence against alcohol sales at the U. But, the fact of the matter is there are sales around the U which travel into the U every weekend. The overwhelming evidence is that sales are smaller now than at the peak of sales in the 70's. Having a beer tent may actually drop sales around the U and promote a more balanced drinking social style in students. If we promote acceptable limits to alcohol use, most people will follow it. The only class of people who need absolute prohibition are those who have a genetic propensity to becoming addicted to alcohol, which occurs in about 25% of the population. The other 3/4's of the population don't need extra moral guards to our ability to control our consumption. We can handle it just fine.
 

The Gophers did for almost 30 years at the dome.

No, they did not. The University of Minnesota did ***NOT*** sell alcohol at the Metrodome. The Gophers were tenants, and had no control over alcohol policy at the Metrodome.
 

The beer garden needs to be on the top level of the stadium so those who want can watch the game will having a brew. Nobody gets in the beer garden without an ID and nobody leaves with a beer in their hand. It will work perfectly.
I agree. To me, the plaza is a bad spot for it if this actually happens. First, it's a focal point for people to look because of it's proximity to the scoreboard (and I doubt the U would like to highlight the beer garden in this fashion) and it also takes away from a natural gathering place for other fans.

The thing to note is that if it is on the top level you're not going to have a view of the game either. The garden would be set back from the current "open concourse" (i.e. behind the fence somewhere) if it were up top and thus, you're probably not going to have a view of the field.
 

No, they did not. The University of Minnesota did ***NOT*** sell alcohol at the Metrodome. The Gophers were tenants, and had no control over alcohol policy at the Metrodome.

Check my original post dude. I'm well aware of that. I'm just saying that there have been B1G programs where alcohol was sold. It doesn't matter who was in control of the decision-making; what matters is it happened. As a result, the Metrodome never had any major issues with it. Well besides the bathroom party during the 55-0 loss to Iowa. What's the difference between selling alcohol at Northrup vs TCF Bank Stadium? That I don't understand. Also, why isn't beer sold at the Prep Bowl if "tenants" have no control over Alcohol sales? Maybe that falls under some state law but I'm not sure how that works.
 

The U is not trying to promote abstinence from alcohol. They are abstaining from selling easily and readily available alcohol to their own general student population. The two are markedly dissimilar.
 

The U is not trying to promote abstinence from alcohol. They are abstaining from selling easily and readily available alcohol to their own general student population. The two are markedly dissimilar.

Explain why Beer is sold had University-sponsored concerts at Northrup?
 

They are abstaining from selling easily and readily available alcohol to their own general student population.
To be fair, if they are selling it at concerts (I have no idea of the accuracy here as I don't go to concerts at Northrop) then they're doing what you say in select instances versus all the time. Which is still within the "norm" (see: Wisconsin and, I suspect, many, many other B1G schools).
 

I agree. To me, the plaza is a bad spot for it if this actually happens. First, it's a focal point for people to look because of it's proximity to the scoreboard (and I doubt the U would like to highlight the beer garden in this fashion) and it also takes away from a natural gathering place for other fans.

The thing to note is that if it is on the top level you're not going to have a view of the game either. The garden would be set back from the current "open concourse" (i.e. behind the fence somewhere) if it were up top and thus, you're probably not going to have a view of the field.

I agree that the view will be a problem on the top level but I have worked around architects and engineers long enough to know that they can do a lot to solve that problem in a variety of different ways. But it will take money and I am guessing the U is not going to be willing to spend much to improve the view for beer drinkers who sit in the cheap seats. Most of them will have to be satisfied by watching the game on the beer garden's TVs.
 

Explain why Beer is sold had University-sponsored concerts at Northrup?
The same reason that Wisky sells it at their Unions to the general public but not at football games...the leadership made a decision that selling it to students at games was outside of what they wanted to do. I'd give you a more specific answer but I'm not a Regent. You should e-mail a few of them if you'd like a more detailed response.

You can disagree with it, but I don't think the U (or most other universities) look at the sale of alcohol as a uniform situation across all campus locations and activities. This isn't a black and white scenario where a "gotcha" will win the argument for you.
 

To be fair, if they are selling it at concerts (I have no idea of the accuracy here as I don't go to concerts at Northrop) then they're doing what you say in select instances versus all the time. Which is still within the "norm" (see: Wisconsin and, I suspect, many, many other B1G schools).

I went to a concert at Northrup last year and they sold Beer. So unless something has changed within the last year, they sell beer at Northrup concerts. I was shocked to find out that they did myself.
 

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