POLL: Will UST have a better KenPom ranking than our Gophs at all during the 2022-23 season?

Will UST have a better KenPom ranking than our Gophs at all during the 2022-23 season?


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SelectionSunday

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Was curious so I looked it up.

Current SOS, NC SOS, and Average NET numbers for Gophers and Tommies:

Overall SOS
Gophers 103
Tommies 267

Non-Conference SOS
Tommies 155
Gophers 265

Average of NET Wins
Tommies 267
Gophers 293

Average of NET Losses
Gophers 69
Tommies 144
 



Wet_Blanket_Guy

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As a reminder for the CBJ apologists who yell rebuild at the top of their lungs at every chance. UST is literally building a D1 program. It’s in year 2, not year 100+. They are doing this with half their roster (outside of a few freshmen and 2 transfer (Dobbs and Courtney Brown Jr) being recruited to play D3 ball.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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As a reminder for the CBJ apologists who yell rebuild at the top of their lungs at every chance. UST is literally building a D1 program. It’s in year 2, not year 100+. They are doing this with half their roster (outside of a few freshmen and 2 transfer (Dobbs and Courtney Brown Jr) being recruited to play D3 ball.
But they do have the striking advantage of a coach who actually earned his job.
 










BleedGopher

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Shooter chimes in:

—It seems the only difference between the Gophers men’s basketball team and the University of St. Thomas is height disparity.


Go Gophers!!
 


MNJay

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As a reminder for the CBJ apologists who yell rebuild at the top of their lungs at every chance. UST is literally building a D1 program. It’s in year 2, not year 100+. They are doing this with half their roster (outside of a few freshmen and 2 transfer (Dobbs and Courtney Brown Jr) being recruited to play D3 ball.
But they do have the striking advantage of a coach who actually earned his job.
'Rebuild', by definition, is 3-4 years in college basketball. I can't believe we still haven't gotten that straight yet.

Yes, instant turnarounds do happen. Transfers, inherited players improving, and other things (getting healthy, no suspensions, etc.) can turn a team around in 1 or 2 years. But that's not the situation here. Coach Johnson was hired to recruit and build from the ground up. His first recruits are freshmen now.
 
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MNJay

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So please stop referring to instant winning as a rebuild. Get the 2 terms straight.
 
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ethomasp31

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Here is my honest opinion:

(1) Kendall Blue - I'd certainly take him right now, but not most year. I think he is a good enough athlete to do a lot of the things we'd want from a wing, but I think both Carrington and Henley are better prospects. So yes, we could use him this year because we are so desperate for wings, but I don't blame Ben for not offering a third wing. That said, I wouldn't have been opposed to offering him either.

(2) Ryan Dufault - I barely remember him but I don't think he could do much at the Big 10 level. He is a SO, so I wouldn't have had any interest in him eating up a scholarship for three seasons.

(3) Drake Dobbs - I'd have taken him in a heart beat. He can handle the ball and shoot a bit. I don't think he is necessarily a Big 10 athlete but he could play 10 minutes per game to spell Cooper (provide depth). He had a pretty good FR season at Liberty before transferring out.

(4) Riley Miller - Absolutely. He would be starting for us at SG. He is a good shooter at a high volume. He would struggle on defense in the Big 10, but he'd absolutely play for us. He could play for most Gopher teams as a shooter off the bench.

(5) Andrew Rohde - Absolutely. He'd be one of our better players and he will either end up one of the best players in the Summit League or end up at one in a major conference. He's good. He isn't great on defense yet, but I think he'll end up being fine on defense.

If this was our current team, we'd be much better than we are now (you can move the starters around however you want).

PG: Cooper / Dobbs / Samuels
SG: Miller / Carrington
SG: Rohde / Henley
PF: Battle / Olo-Joseph
C: Garcia / Payne
Drake Dobbs transferred in the middle of the year last season to St Thomas. He wasn’t in the portal at the end of last season. Did you watch him play in high school? Did you watch him play at Liberty before he transferred in the middle of his second season? I watched Drake Dobbs play several times in high school and loved his game…he was a great high school player. But the difference between the Summit League and the B1G is almost as big as the difference between the MIAC and the Summit League. I watched him play in the NCAA tournament as a freshmen at Liberty and he wasn’t close to being able to play valuable minutes in the B1G at that time.

The Gopher and Ben Johnson basking just gets old on a message board that is supposedly for Gopher fans. I was watching the football games tonight with a good friend who has probably played, coached and watched more basketball than anyone on this message board. He actually has won three state championships as a coach and has countless coaching connections in the state. I asked him directly if he thought Ben Johnson would be successful at the U and without hesitation he answered, “ yes he is going to do well.” I’m not sure if I would have asked him when Johnson was hired if he would have answered the same way, but he has a lot of respect for Dave Thorson and has gotten to know Ben Johnson over the last couple of years. It takes a little bit of time to build a program the way Johnson wants to build it. We are playing 4 freshmen in his first class who are about 15 games into their college careers. Teams have scouted Battle and are playing on his left hand. Most of us can’t even comprehend how difficult it is to even get a shot off in the B1G especially if you are a good shooter and your opponents don’t want you to shoot. Let the process play out and at least give Ben Johnson a couple of years to get his recruiting classes a chance to play.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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Drake Dobbs transferred in the middle of the year last season to St Thomas. He wasn’t in the portal at the end of last season. Did you watch him play in high school? Did you watch him play at Liberty before he transferred in the middle of his second season? I watched Drake Dobbs play several times in high school and loved his game…he was a great high school player. But the difference between the Summit League and the B1G is almost as big as the difference between the MIAC and the Summit League. I watched him play in the NCAA tournament as a freshmen at Liberty and he wasn’t close to being able to play valuable minutes in the B1G at that time.

The Gopher and Ben Johnson basking just gets old on a message board that is supposedly for Gopher fans. I was watching the football games tonight with a good friend who has probably played, coached and watched more basketball than anyone on this message board. He actually has won three state championships as a coach and has countless coaching connections in the state. I asked him directly if he thought Ben Johnson would be successful at the U and without hesitation he answered, “ yes he is going to do well.” I’m not sure if I would have asked him when Johnson was hired if he would have answered the same way, but he has a lot of respect for Dave Thorson and has gotten to know Ben Johnson over the last couple of years. It takes a little bit of time to build a program the way Johnson wants to build it. We are playing 4 freshmen in his first class who are about 15 games into their college careers. Teams have scouted Battle and are playing on his left hand. Most of us can’t even comprehend how difficult it is to even get a shot off in the B1G especially if you are a good shooter and your opponents don’t want you to shoot. Let the process play out and at least give Ben Johnson a couple of years to get his recruiting classes a chance to play.
Dobbs is not a big10 player
 

Bob_Loblaw

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'Rebuild', by definition, is 3-4 years in college basketball. I can't believe we still haven't gotten that straight yet.

Yes, instant turnarounds do happen. Transfers, inherited players improving, and other things (getting healthy, no suspensions, etc.) can turn a team around in 1 or 2 years. But that's not the situation here. Coach Johnson was hired to recruit and build from the ground up. His first recruits are freshmen now.
That's an opinion not a fact. The vast majority of college basketball "rebuilds" are quicker than 2 years. You can see the countless other threads of people pointing at examples.

Instant turnarounds happen with programs without much from inherited players and Ben has added a LOT of transfers (Willis, Battle, Garcia, Loewe, Stephens, Fox, Cooper, Samuels, Ogele, etc.). Please stop acting like Ben hasn't added a ton of transfers.

If you're only counting HS players, Ben's first class transferred to High Point and is getting zero minutes here.

Have whatever opinion you want, but asking other people to live in your delusion is kind of weird.
 


MonikerSchmoniker45

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But they do have the striking advantage of a coach who actually earned his job.
How did Tauer earn his job? Being an alumni? (Ben is that) Beating up on MIAC teams for 10 years? (Ben faced real competition) Paying to move to D1? (Ben was hired for a D1 job, not handed it.)
 

Bob_Loblaw

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How did Tauer earn his job? Being an alumni? (Ben is that) Beating up on MIAC teams for 10 years? (Ben faced real competition) Paying to move to D1? (Ben was hired for a D1 job, not handed it.)
What a dumb take, wow. Yeah, Tauer paid for UST to go D1. Another hot take.

First off, Tauer was hired for a D3 job not a Big 10 job.
  • He was an assistant for 11 years
  • Then was hired as a D3 coach and then dominated D3 to a point where they moved to D1 and have done pretty good.
  • Get this - - even at this point - - I don't think Tauer as the resume to get a Big 10 job.
  • He had a great resume for a D3 job and has clearly done a really nice job there.

Second, the take that Tauer beat up on worse competition is as bad of a take as anyone has ever had. It would be like saying Rambis is a better coach than Jay Wright because Rambis faced real competition in the NBA. You play and beat who is on your schedule. He is now doing alright in D1 with the majority of his roster being D3 kids. LOL. So now he's beating decent competition with D3 kids. Yep, another swing and a miss from the captain of sizzling hot takes.

Ben was handed the job. That's not his fault, I don't blame him for the decision. The fact is that he couldn't get a lower level job. This would be like if Tauer couldn't get a HS coaching job and then was handed the UST job.
 

ethomasp31

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Dobbs is not a big10 player
Drake Dobbs was an incredible player to watch in high school. When his team beat Dawson Garcia’s PL team in the section finals their junior year it was one of the best sporting events I have been to in person. The next year he controlled the game in the section semi rematch. That was right before Covid.

When he left Liberty in the middle of the season last year I wondered if the U might be a place he was looking at. The truth is if he could have played at the U he probably would have transferred to the U. My guess is if he would have most posters on here would be looking at him like they look at Samuels.
 

ethomasp31

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What a dumb take, wow. Yeah, Tauer paid for UST to go D1. Another hot take.

First off, Tauer was hired for a D3 job not a Big 10 job.
  • He was an assistant for 11 years
  • Then was hired as a D3 coach and then dominated D3 to a point where they moved to D1 and have done pretty good.
  • Get this - - even at this point - - I don't think Tauer as the resume to get a Big 10 job.
  • He had a great resume for a D3 job and has clearly done a really nice job there.

Second, the take that Tauer beat up on worse competition is as bad of a take as anyone has ever had. It would be like saying Rambis is a better coach than Jay Wright because Rambis faced real competition in the NBA. You play and beat who is on your schedule. He is now doing alright in D1 with the majority of his roster being D3 kids. LOL. So now he's beating decent competition with D3 kids. Yep, another swing and a miss from the captain of sizzling hot takes.

Ben was handed the job. That's not his fault, I don't blame him for the decision. The fact is that he couldn't get a lower level job. This would be like if Tauer couldn't get a HS coaching job and then was handed the UST job.
They didn’t get kicked out of the MIAC because of basketball…

I like the hire of Ben Johnson. I think he is going to do a great job for the Gophers. Every example I give of coaches who had a tough couple of years before being very successful you and others are going to tell me how bad of comparisons they are so I won’t bother. The last coach didn’t have a good relationship with many of the high school and AAU coaches in the state and this one does. Could we have gotten a coach who maybe could have built something a little faster? Yeah maybe, but we might not have the classes that we had this year and have coming in next year either. No one was expecting them to go to the NCAA tournament this year or last year so let them grow and make judgements after a fair amount of time.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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They didn’t get kicked out of the MIAC because of basketball…

I like the hire of Ben Johnson. I think he is going to do a great job for the Gophers. Every example I give of coaches who had a tough couple of years before being very successful you and others are going to tell me how bad of comparisons they are so I won’t bother. The last coach didn’t have a good relationship with many of the high school and AAU coaches in the state and this one does. Could we have gotten a coach who maybe could have built something a little faster? Yeah maybe, but we might not have the classes that we had this year and have coming in next year either. No one was expecting them to go to the NCAA tournament this year or last year so let them grow and make judgements after a fair amount of time.

Every example you give, yet you won’t give examples?

I would love to hear examples of coaches within the last 10 years who have had a tough couple of years and went on to be very successful.
 

ethomasp31

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Every example you give, yet you won’t give examples?

I would love to hear examples of coaches within the last 10 years who have had a tough couple of years and went on to be very successful.
Well PJ Fleck in the last 10’years. Giving me 10 years doesn’t really give a chance to see how many can become successful. I think Scott Drew has done pretty well after a couple of difficult years. Your limiting it to last 10 years just proves my point of you dismissing my comparisons.
 


GopherWeatherGuy

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Well PJ Fleck in the last 10’years. Giving me 10 years doesn’t really give a chance to see how many can become successful. I think Scott Drew has done pretty well after a couple of difficult years. Your limiting it to last 10 years just proves my point of you dismissing my comparisons.

I've limited it to the last 10 years because recruiting has changed significantly just in the last 3 years, let alone the last 10. Scott Drew has been discussed a lot on here, and what he took over at Baylor was nothing remotely comparable to here.

We can compare PJ if you'd like though. What he did on the recruiting trail in the first 3 weeks on the job here has lapped what Ben has done in 1.5 years several times over. He won a bowl game in year 2, won 11 games and finished in the top 10 in year 3, despite turning over 85% of an 85 scholarship roster.

For comparison's sake, Ben would need to be a bubble team this year, and make an elite 8 run next year, and only has 13 scholarships to manage.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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I’ll start, Pikiell at Rutgers.

Pikiell finished last in the B1G his first two seasons, but here's the difference.

Rankings via Ken Pom, year prior to Pikiell's hiring:
Overall: 279 Offense: 303 Defense: 236
Year 1
Overall: 135 Offense: 231 Defense: 70
Year 2
Overall: 130 Offense: 270 Defense: 28

Despite the losses they were showing significant improvement, especially with Pikiell's defensive system, and you would see them win 7 games in the B1G in year 3, and remain a top 6 B1G team years 4-6.

Last year of Pitino:
Overall: 62 Offense: 76 Defense: 56
Year 1 of Ben
Overall: 109 Offense: 93 Defense: 153
Year 2 so far
Overall: 175 Offense: 196 Defense: 151

There's a lot of season left to play, but that's not an optimistic trend for Ben and the Gophers.
 




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