POLL: Will UST have a better KenPom ranking than our Gophs at all during the 2022-23 season?

Will UST have a better KenPom ranking than our Gophs at all during the 2022-23 season?


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GopherWeatherGuy

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Such a dishonest comparison to make. Basically Pitino's entire team was gone and Ben Johnson had a couple months to slap together what he could. The years prior to them taking over is irrelevant in this case.

False, but keep making things up.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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He went to St. Thomas. He finally admitted that after I continually challenged him & others.
Never had a problem admitting it. Most of the state didn’t go to the U. Your logic cleans most of the state doesn’t root for the U or can’t be fans
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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I don't know which Wet_Blanket post to comment on. It's like wading through 💩.
Who cares why they are ranked 7th, at the end of the day, they are 7th. Maybe each of the rankings should have literally asterisks on them with side notes to make people like you happier…so the gophers class looks better.

Look, it’s good…but many other Big10 programs are better. Could Ben do better if he had more scholarships available…maybe…but we have to play within the constructs of the system we play in. Ben constructed the roster and he has to live and die by that.
 

stocker08

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False, but keep making things up.

What's false about it? What am I making up? Pitino's team in 20-21 went 6-14 in the Big Ten. And those wins were more or less on the back of Carr. He wasn't coming back. The most talented of the younger guys (Mashburn) wasn't coming back. Robbins wasn't coming back.

Basically the best pieces from a 6-14 team were leaving regardless. So please tell me how Ben Johnson was working with a solid foundation when he took the job....and how Pikiell was walking into a much worse situation.

lol. Great real, goon.
 


Johnnyboy18

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Who cares why they are ranked 7th, at the end of the day, they are 7th. Maybe each of the rankings should have literally asterisks on them with side notes to make people like you happier…so the gophers class looks better.

Look, it’s good…but many other Big10 programs are better. Could Ben do better if he had more scholarships available…maybe…but we have to play within the constructs of the system we play in. Ben constructed the roster and he has to live and die by that.
It's not hard to look at. No one needs an asterisk it's literally right there for the world to see unless you're trolling but we know you are! Fraud
 

GFBfan

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Pikiell finished last in the B1G his first two seasons, but here's the difference.

Rankings via Ken Pom, year prior to Pikiell's hiring:
Overall: 279 Offense: 303 Defense: 236
Year 1
Overall: 135 Offense: 231 Defense: 70
Year 2
Overall: 130 Offense: 270 Defense: 28

Despite the losses they were showing significant improvement, especially with Pikiell's defensive system, and you would see them win 7 games in the B1G in year 3, and remain a top 6 B1G team years 4-6.

Last year of Pitino:
Overall: 62 Offense: 76 Defense: 56
Year 1 of Ben
Overall: 109 Offense: 93 Defense: 153
Year 2 so far
Overall: 175 Offense: 196 Defense: 151

There's a lot of season left to play, but that's not an optimistic trend for Ben and the Gophers.
The question was:
examples of coaches within the last 10 years who have had a tough couple of years and went on to be very successful.
Didnt say anything about KenPom or any other sh:t, so kind of hard when it’s limited to 10 years.
A Coach can struggle in the first two years and then find success.
Jamie Dixon at TCU struggled after the the first two years and now has them playing well
Randy Bennet at St. Mary’s ( he’s outside the 10 year window) struggled early but has had much success after that.
Tony Bennett at Virginia( just outside the 10 year window) is another who started slow the first two years.
Rick Barnes at Tennessee was under .500 in conference the first two year and below it overall those years.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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The question was:
examples of coaches within the last 10 years who have had a tough couple of years and went on to be very successful.
Didnt say anything about KenPom or any other sh:t, so kind of hard when it’s limited to 10 years.
A Coach can struggle in the first two years and then find success.
Jamie Dixon at TCU struggled after the the first two years and now has them playing well
Randy Bennet at St. Mary’s ( he’s outside the 10 year window) struggled early but has had much success after that.
Tony Bennett at Virginia( just outside the 10 year window) is another who started slow the first two years.
Rick Barnes at Tennessee was under .500 in conference the first two year and below it overall those years.
All of those also had proven success (I don’t know of Randy Bennet resume prior to St Mary’s) prior to their current schools
 

GFBfan

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All of those also had proven success (I don’t know of Randy Bennet resume prior to St Mary’s) prior to their current schools
[
What’s your point with this statement?
 
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GopherWeatherGuy

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What's false about it? What am I making up? Pitino's team in 20-21 went 6-14 in the Big Ten. And those wins were more or less on the back of Carr. He wasn't coming back. The most talented of the younger guys (Mashburn) wasn't coming back. Robbins wasn't coming back.

Basically the best pieces from a 6-14 team were leaving regardless. So please tell me how Ben Johnson was working with a solid foundation when he took the job....and how Pikiell was walking into a much worse situation.

lol. Great real, goon.

When did I say he was working from a solid foundation? He had pieces that could help his team and he didn't recruit them to stay. That resulted in a last place finish last season, and will likely lead to two last place finishes in a row this season.

When was the last time that has happened in Gopher basketball history? Never? But keep defending how terrible Ben has been.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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All of those also had proven success (I don’t know of Randy Bennet resume prior to St Mary’s) prior to their current schoo
I’m just saying the names you provided Dixon, Barnes, & Tony Bennett all had success at previous schools, where CBJ does not. So while they may have bad records in their first two years, they had big success at other school, so not everything was built on hope.

Finding a comparison to CBJ is going to be hard at the P5 level, it willl have to be an nba guy as most other coaches have an extensive track record prior to becoming a B10 coach.

The best comparison would be looking at first time coaches. Who have survived horrendous starts to be successful.
 
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GopherWeatherGuy

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The question was:
examples of coaches within the last 10 years who have had a tough couple of years and went on to be very successful.
Didnt say anything about KenPom or any other sh:t, so kind of hard when it’s limited to 10 years.
A Coach can struggle in the first two years and then find success.
Jamie Dixon at TCU struggled after the the first two years and now has them playing well
Randy Bennet at St. Mary’s ( he’s outside the 10 year window) struggled early but has had much success after that.
Tony Bennett at Virginia( just outside the 10 year window) is another who started slow the first two years.
Rick Barnes at Tennessee was under .500 in conference the first two year and below it overall those years.

You can struggle in the first few years as a coach record wise as long as you can point to something you've improved at the program you're coaching. Ben has nothing to point at today. That's the point of using metrics outside of win/losses. Everything is worse now under Ben, including wins/losses.

Dixon won the NIT in year 1 and went to the NCAA tournament in year 2. Randy Bennett in the West Coast Conference, really? Still went 6-8 in conference in year 2. Tony Bennett has never finished close to last in the ACC, even in year 1. Same goes for Rick Barnes at Tennessee.

Terrible examples.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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You can struggle in the first few years as a coach record wise as long as you can point to something you've improved at the program you're coaching. Ben has nothing to point at today. That's the point of using metrics outside of win/losses. Everything is worse now under Ben, including wins/losses.

Dixon won the NIT in year 1 and went to the NCAA tournament in year 2. Randy Bennett in the West Coast Conference, really? Still went 6-8 in conference in year 2. Tony Bennett has never finished close to last in the ACC, even in year 1. Same goes for Rick Barnes at Tennessee.

Terrible examples.
And Barnes (pretty good at Texas prior), Tony Bennett (was a hot coach at Washington State), Jamie Dixon (really good at Pitt), (honestly I don’t know about Randy Bennet prior to St Mary’s off the top of my head).

CBJ has no prior head coaching experience -
 



stocker08

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When did I say he was working from a solid foundation? He had pieces that could help his team and he didn't recruit them to stay. That resulted in a last place finish last season, and will likely lead to two last place finishes in a row this season.

When was the last time that has happened in Gopher basketball history? Never? But keep defending how terrible Ben has been.

Ehhh.....wrong. With the pieces leaving from Pitino's last team....there was almost virtually no way that Ben Johnson's team last year....with the amount of time he had to recruit was going to be anything but at the bottom of the Big Ten.

Got a good foundation now. Team has clearly been playing much better these past few games. Why does that make you so butthurt?
 

stocker08

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You can struggle in the first few years as a coach record wise as long as you can point to something you've improved at the program you're coaching. Ben has nothing to point at today. That's the point of using metrics outside of win/losses. Everything is worse now under Ben, including wins/losses.

Dixon won the NIT in year 1 and went to the NCAA tournament in year 2. Randy Bennett in the West Coast Conference, really? Still went 6-8 in conference in year 2. Tony Bennett has never finished close to last in the ACC, even in year 1. Same goes for Rick Barnes at Tennessee.

Terrible examples.

Rutgers took last place in Pikiell's first two seasons at Rutgers.
 

UpAndUnder43

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I’d be more interested to see a list of all the coaches who struggled for two years and then kept struggling. Is it rare or is it more common than being bad for a couple years and turning it around?
 

Gopherfan84

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Completely false, and people like you need to stop repeating this disinformation. There were only 2 people in the portal when Ben arrived, Carr and Mashburn. Everyone else would enter the portal in the weeks after he was the coach here.
You also need to stop ignoring the context and understanding of where the players were at. Literally Carr and Mashburn were in. Gabe hadn’t filed but it was known he was gone. Liam was just waiting on his uncle. That leaves Brandon Johnson, Ihnen, Williams, Both, Freeman, and Mitchell. What part of that group screams “I want you here to build something?”. Of course Ben only chased Ihnen and Johnson of the latter and almost changed Gabes mind. Both was also welcomed back. It’s not like there was a ton that were worth keeping who were willing to listen.
 


ethomasp31

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I’m just saying the names you provided Dixon, Barnes, & Tony Bennett all had success at previous schools, where CBJ does not. So while they may have bad records in their first two years, they had big success at other school, so not everything was built on hope.

Finding a comparison to CBJ is going to be hard at the P5 level, it willl have to be an nba guy as most other coaches have an extensive track record prior to becoming a B10 coach.

The best comparison would be looking at first time coaches. Who have survived horrendous starts to be successful.
So you answered my question....you are just going to troll and [email protected]#ch and whine as long as Ben Johnson is the coach. Why don't you just go to St. Thomas's message board? And take Barry Zevan with you.
 
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stocker08

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Did Pikiell have a job before Rutgers? I think we need to look at a first time coaches.

Who cares. Finished last in the Big Ten his first two seasons before finishing third to last in his third season.
 


Formerswish

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You can struggle in the first few years as a coach record wise as long as you can point to something you've improved at the program you're coaching. Ben has nothing to point at today. That's the point of using metrics outside of win/losses. Everything is worse now under Ben, including wins/losses.

Dixon won the NIT in year 1 and went to the NCAA tournament in year 2. Randy Bennett in the West Coast Conference, really? Still went 6-8 in conference in year 2. Tony Bennett has never finished close to last in the ACC, even in year 1. Same goes for Rick Barnes at Tennessee.

Terrible examples.
"Ben has nothing to point at today?" If you can't see there is improvement in the team and in the level of talent (including the guys recruited for next year, who remain unknown but clearly are a level above our "normal" recruits) compared to the previous guy, you don't have a very good idea of what talent looks like.

It's too bad you have to put up with waiting for these guys to develop, but that's what happens sometimes with college teams. Maybe you could take some deep breaths and do your best to enjoy their development, because at some point soon they'll be pretty good.
 

gophereric30

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This thread cracks me up. Yes why am I making a comment. I'm a minnesota fan and I'm not sure why it matters who is ranked higher. Like I said I'm a gopher fan so not sure why I would be worried about any other team.
 


MNJay

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Never had a problem admitting it. Most of the state didn’t go to the U. Your logic cleans most of the state doesn’t root for the U or can’t be fans
Some were denying that there are fans of other teams on here. I adamantly disagreed...and then a few of your were honest enough to admit it.

i know there are others who won't admit it.
 

MNJay

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Who cares why they are ranked 7th, at the end of the day, they are 7th. Maybe each of the rankings should have literally asterisks on them with side notes to make people like you happier…so the gophers class looks better.

Look, it’s good…but many other Big10 programs are better. Could Ben do better if he had more scholarships available…maybe…but we have to play within the constructs of the system we play in. Ben constructed the roster and he has to live and die by that.
Let's analyze this fairly, logically, & honestly.

We know you went to St. Thomas. But as far as your posts on here:

You're either a troll or you're dumber than a bucket of rocks. It has to be one or the other.
 

MNJay

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When did I say he was working from a solid foundation? He had pieces that could help his team and he didn't recruit them to stay. That resulted in a last place finish last season, and will likely lead to two last place finishes in a row this season.

When was the last time that has happened in Gopher basketball history? Never? But keep defending how terrible Ben has been.
Clem did a ground-up rebuild. 2-16 & 4-14 in his first 2 years. Then Sweet-16 when his guys became juniors & sophomores.

That's what Ben is attempting to do. He has 4 freshmen playing now...and he has higher rated recruits coming next year, including a 5-star.

I know you have no interest in this. I realize that all you want to do is sling mud and wallow in manure. But there are a few Gopher fans on here who are able to have a worthwhile discussion.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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You also need to stop ignoring the context and understanding of where the players were at. Literally Carr and Mashburn were in. Gabe hadn’t filed but it was known he was gone. Liam was just waiting on his uncle. That leaves Brandon Johnson, Ihnen, Williams, Both, Freeman, and Mitchell. What part of that group screams “I want you here to build something?”. Of course Ben only chased Ihnen and Johnson of the latter and almost changed Gabes mind. Both was also welcomed back. It’s not like there was a ton that were worth keeping who were willing to listen.

We basically played 5 guys last season, a path we've started to head down again this season. Even adding 2-3 of those guys would have helped the depth significantly, especially Johnson in the frontcourt. That could have added a few more wins and kept them out of last place.
 

Gopherfan84

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We basically played 5 guys last season, a path we've started to head down again this season. Even adding 2-3 of those guys would have helped the depth significantly, especially Johnson in the frontcourt. That could have added a few more wins and kept them out of last place.
Only ones I would’ve wanted were Johnson and Gabe. The rest wouldn’t have helped imo if we want to build something sustainable. Most teams play 8. The 8th guy isn’t normally more than a 8 minutes. Trust 7 play 8
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Only ones I would’ve wanted were Johnson and Gabe. The rest wouldn’t have helped imo if we want to build something sustainable. Most teams play 8. The 8th guy isn’t normally more than a 8 minutes. Trust 7 play 8

The majority of last years team was there for 1 year, how did that build something sustainable? It led to a last place finish, and probably will again this season. There was room to keep more that would have helped them win more last season, and winning more games leads to building something more sustainable.
 




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