***OFFICIAL MICHIGAN AT MINNESOTA IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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golfing18now said:
Kind of an odd argument you are trying to pick here. If you replace Joey King with Dawson Garcia in your second sentence it accurately describes this year's team. Joey King's own words during that interview after the game were about the lack of wins that year but how he guaranteed this would lead to more wins down the road. He was right.

I wasn't trying to project my interpretation of how you or anybody should feel about last night, unlike you in your response. I'm simply lamenting the fact that college basketball in it's heyday was often about watching players improve over time and feeling excitement about the future even when things were down. It's not that way anymore for me. But you can feel differently. That's fine.
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That team had a bunch of guys returning (except Joey) and he had good reason to believe they would be much better the following year. This team has 10 seniors. It's still an emotional win but not quite the same thing.
 

MNVCGUY said:
The home clock operator deserves some of the blame as one of the reviews was because he/she ran the clock for a few seconds when they shouldn't have. :)
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Don't get me wrong: the way the rules are written, all these reviews were called for. I admitted that I couldn't clearly see myself what had happened with those couple out-of-bounds situations in real time. And, unlike the NFL, there are hundreds of college games going on, so it's not like Big Brother Replay Assist is going to ping the head ref and tell him what's up. I do believe it's important to get calls right if possible, and it's possible. The time thing is a dilemma, though; it drains entertainment value from the fan experience.
 

MNVCGUY said:
The home clock operator deserves some of the blame as one of the reviews was because he/she ran the clock for a few seconds when they shouldn't have. :)
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They were just trying to take one for the team. Kudos to them. Illinois screwed us out of a football win doing that many years ago.
 


Bad Gopher said:
Don't get me wrong: the way the rules are written, all these reviews were called for. I admitted that I couldn't clearly see myself what had happened with those couple out-of-bounds situations in real time. And, unlike the NFL, there are hundreds of college games going on, so it's not like Big Brother Replay Assist is going to ping the head ref and tell him what's up. I do believe it's important to get calls right if possible, and it's possible. The time thing is a dilemma, though; it drains entertainment value from the fan experience.
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I know football experimented with a time limit on reviews. Has basketball ever done the same? I just come back to the desire to get it right vs over analyzing things to a ridiculous point that kills the flow of the game.

Getting it right is important but when it is so close that you need to look at individual frames of video to try and figure it out just go with what was called on the court.
 


MNVCGUY said:
If the players are still bought in and playing hard for Ben they aren't going to be motivated to play harder for the interim coach who replaces the guy they were playing hard for.
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No. But I didn't say that. I just don't buy that they would quit and start mailing it in either. I don't expect much would change either way on the court. It's off-court reasons that are the benefit.
 

MNVCGUY said:
If they are smart, the next coach is going to come from a mid major that makes a tournament run with a handful of guys with some eligibility left that can come with the coach to Minnesota in order to hit the ground running.
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That's a nice idea but it might be hard to accomplish (the "handful" part). We're not the only team that's significantly staffed with one-year rentals. Penn State's Rhodes was able to bring two significant contributors from VCU. Sprinkle brought one veteran player from Utah State (Osobor) to Washington (granted, it was a very significant one).
 

If the Gophers go undefeated the rest of the schedule, will Ben get re-hired?
 




howeda7 said:
No. But I didn't say that. I just don't buy that they would quit and start mailing it in either. I don't expect much would change either way on the court. It's off-court reasons that are the benefit.
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I agree that on the court things probably wouldn't really change that much regardless of if it was Johnson or Thorson coaching but we disagree on how much benefit there is in making the move in season vs. at the end of the season. Firing Johnson isn't going to bring fans back to the Barn this season.

As long as the players haven't quit on Ben (and they clearly haven't), you just play it out and make the move after the season.
 



TwistingMyMelon said:
Sorry, I think he is 100% correct here when he said this:

The Joey King moment is when a ridiculed, winless in the BIG, no expectations team somehow beats a heavily favored team.

I'll add that it was also about the joy of fans who had waited a long time for a first conference victory. That team lost its first 13 conference games so the fans had to wait considerably longer for their first conference win that year. It wasn't about "wait and see this team next season." Yes, the 2016-17 team was the best in recent history but a big part of that was four players (Coffey, Lynch, Springs, and Curry) who didn't play on the 2015-16 team.

The 2015-16 team won only one more conference game (the next one) against hapless Rutgers (the last team to win only 1 Big Ten game in a season). After that, it fell apart with suspensions and at least one injury.
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I don't disagree with anything you say here in this post. Your description of the 2015-2016 team is accurate. I'd add the atmosphere in the fanbase and towards the coach was pretty toxic at the time particularly after losing non-conference games against the North/South Dakota schools. It's not totally dissimilar to this year's team, but there are some differences too. I've never viewed this current team as a 1 or 2 win ceiling in conference.

Perhaps I'm guilty of including my own dissatisfaction with the current landscape of college sports in an odd location -- in a game day thread. Not trying to be wet blanket guy. My posts tend to ramble at times, as you know Twisting. Ironically I find myself asking myself the same question I asked you recently about motivation for watching sports in general and this team in particular.

Overall, it was a very nice win for the Gophers last night.
 



How many years does Ben have left on his contract? We win some games and he just might ride it out
 

golfing18now said:
Perhaps I'm guilty of including my own dissatisfaction with the current landscape of college sports in an odd location -- in a game day thread.
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Well, you have plenty of company when it comes to the feeling about the current landscape of college sports. I have to say that I have mixed feelings and I think there are some positives along with the negatives.

for example ----

Negative: we may not have been able to keep someone like Jordan Murphy around for four years under this system.

Positive: we may not have had to carry Bakary, Gaston, and Michael Hurt for four years either under this system

Negative: different players every year

Positive: you do get to see a lot of different players; people aren't around long enough to get really sick of them

I think our capacity to be competitive may improve when revenue sharing kicks in.
 

USAF said:
Even last night, the end of regulation was a clear demonstration of how poor a coach Johnson is.
They're up, with 30-some odd seconds left, have the ball from out of bounds on the baseline, WITH A STOPPAGE OF PLAY FFS, and they're still unable to inbound the ball. They looked STUNNED that Michigan might press.

JHFC get a clue.

Johnson is a disaster. Last night was great, but doesn't alter that simple, irrefutable fact.

The sooner he's gone, the better.
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I am glad to see that you have your mojo back.you are like a day without sunshine.

Here’s what I saw. What you saw will be in parentheses. Odacalli (sp) passed on passing the ball to a wide open Patterson, then passed on a less open Mitchell? And instead tossed it down the baseline into a corner and pinned Asuma with his feet 3” from out of bounds. (BJ instructed Odacalli that under no circumstances is he to pass the ball before 4 seconds has expired even if two guys are open, one right in front of him. Odie was to hold the ball as long as possible and then throw it to Asuma in the extreme corner.)
BJ learned this shrewd tactic from being a major college basketball player and from some years as an assistant at same. And in yours eyes 4 wasted years at the U just so he could aggravate you!
 

leib0039 said:
I can't speak for others but for me, I think CBJ is truly a terrible coach. He's basically had 3 years of absolute disaster and 1 year that was fine but I feel should've been better. I want him gone. So although I will never cheer for the Gophers to lose, wins make me nervous. You seem 100% confident he will be gone, im scared 6 wins keeps him.

That said, I watched the game at the local watering hole, the whole place erupted when he made the shot. It was awesome. I'm glad they played hard and didn't quit. Yes it's a bit of a catch 22 with wanting to win but not wanting the coach so it's just a weird fine line.
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Win 10 or 11, and that becomes a conversation. 6 isn't going to get it done imo.

That means they are going to have to go 9-4 or 10-3 in the remainder of their games. Highly, highly unlikely to happen. I'd love to be wrong though!
 

We need to sign Ben to a new five Yr deal if we miss on a good replacement. Yes, let it roll and settle in to finally having some luck signing the young ones. NIL
 

I just got a chance to watch the highlights. Of course they won. They always win when they wear white.
 


Gopheritnow said:
I am glad to see that you have your mojo back.you are like a day without sunshine.

Here’s what I saw. What you saw will be in parentheses. Odacalli (sp) passed on passing the ball to a wide open Patterson, then passed on a less open Mitchell? And instead tossed it down the baseline into a corner and pinned Asuma with his feet 3” from out of bounds. (BJ instructed Odacalli that under no circumstances is he to pass the ball before 4 seconds has expired even if two guys are open, one right in front of him. Odie was to hold the ball as long as possible and then throw it to Asuma in the extreme corner.)
BJ learned this shrewd tactic from being a major college basketball player and from some years as an assistant at same. And in yours eyes 4 wasted years at the U just so he could aggravate you!
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Maybe try this again in English, sport.

And spend a few seconds looking up player's names.

But in case you're talking about the bungled in bounds play, what I saw was a team so poorly coached they were shocked Michigan might press and had no play ready to actually get the ball in safely.
 
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Admittedly it was some of the first Gopher game I watched this year but I felt watching the end of the game like I did watching the last scene of Teen Wolf
 

Sane24 said:
If the Gophers go undefeated the rest of the schedule, will Ben get re-hired?
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No.

This is why. Player turnover under Ben has been atrocious and grossly unacceptable. That turnover is, at its core, a vote of no confidence in Ben.

Ben is setting a pattern of virtually completely churning the roster every year. What percentage of players would want be part of that?
 

leib0039 said:
I can't speak for others but for me, I think CBJ is truly a terrible coach. He's basically had 3 years of absolute disaster and 1 year that was fine but I feel should've been better. I want him gone. So although I will never cheer for the Gophers to lose, wins make me nervous. You seem 100% confident he will be gone, im scared 6 wins keeps him.
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Going 6-14 in the conference while never even being on the NCAA tournament bubble over 4 years is not going to save Ben's job.

Pitino was fired with that record after going to the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament 2 years prior.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Going 6-14 in the conference while never even being on the NCAA tournament bubble over 4 years is not going to save Ben's job.

Pitino was fired with that record after going to the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament 2 years prior.
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Have seen a few people saying they are nervous that some handful of wins like 5-6 would be enough for the administration to justify bringing Ben back.....but that simply isn't the case.

If we had a promising young roster that fear might be a little more founded, but with a roster of players that will be gone next year, finishing well below .500 in conference play and nowhere close to qualifying for the NCAA tournament will lead to a coaching change.

Johnson has had multiple opportunities to build a roster and hasn't come close to fielding one that can be a true factor in the Big Ten. No way they can give him another shot to start over in year 5 given how the first 4 have gone.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Have seen a few people saying they are nervous that some handful of wins like 5-6 would be enough for the administration to justify bringing Ben back.....but that simply isn't the case.

If we had a promising young roster that fear might be a little more founded, but with a roster of players that will be gone next year, finishing well below .500 in conference play and nowhere close to qualifying for the NCAA tournament will lead to a coaching change.

Johnson has had multiple opportunities to build a roster and hasn't come close to fielding one that can be a true factor in the Big Ten. No way they can give him another shot to start over in year 5 given how the first 4 have gone.
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Well.....I'm not it's fair to say that he hasn't come close. This team would look a hell of a lot better if Payne, Hawkins, JOJ & Carrington stuck around. Any combination of Mitchell, Rigsby, Patterson, Odukale, and Edmonds is a major downgrade.
 


Ewert86PC said:
No.

This is why. Player turnover under Ben has been atrocious and grossly unacceptable. That turnover is, at its core, a vote of no confidence in Ben.

Ben is setting a pattern of virtually completely churning the roster every year. What percentage of players would want be part of that?
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Well, I am glad the roster problems have been coherently explained. There for awhile I thought it had something to do with the lack of Gopher NIL competitiveness? Or the fact that two of his key players left after publicly announcing there was no way they were leaving. Lastly the third was in limbo due to the uncertainty if his NBA dreams would be fulfilled.

This is not the most talented roster in the Big However Many Teams We Now Have league. But watching them play there is no indication of their lack of effort, nor of him having "lost the clubhouse".
 
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USAF said:
Maybe try this again in English, sport.

And spend a few seconds looking up player's names.

But in case you're talking about the bundled in bounds play, what I saw was a team so poorly coached they were shocked Michigan might press and had no play ready to actually get the ball in safely.
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I would have liked to look up players names but unfortunately was too distracted looking up the proper use in English of the word "bundled", or is it "bungled"? The English language can be very difficult to master, sport!

Now they could have come out in the "everybody line up out of bounds play"? This would have showed excellent coaching acumen. Frankly, I and others on here don’t like this play either. I for one was relieved that they didn’t run it this time, instead simply having a couple players, who can shoot free throws, (on this team that is admittedly relative) and run cross court and flip one of them the ball. The concept though is not as successful as could be if the in bounder doesn’t let go of the ball.
 

stocker08 said:
Well.....I'm not it's fair to say that he hasn't come close. This team would look a hell of a lot better if Payne, Hawkins, JOJ & Carrington stuck around. Any combination of Mitchell, Rigsby, Patterson, Odukale, and Edmonds is a major downgrade.
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The potential for the year 4 roster is why he was given year 4 to begin with. The plan he had is pretty clear at this point.

Year 1 - bring in a bunch of 1 year guys and focus on high school recruiting with a few key transfers as well.
Year 2 - Play the young guys even if they are not quite ready
Year 3 - Team improves with a young core still developing - NIT
Year 4 - Plan would have been an experienced roster of home grown players plus some key transfers that can hopefully improve on year 3 and make the NCAA tournament.

Of course we all know what actually happened for year 4 with the roster falling apart essentially leaving us with a roster that closely resembles the year 1 roster again without the promising recruits.

Bottom line is that with the prospect of yet another rebuild in year 5 it is time to move on and let someone else do it. Ben has not shown an ability to bring in the kind of transfers that would lead to a quick fix next year and the program isn't in a position to let him try another multiple year build to competitiveness.
 

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