Northwestern Fires Pat Fitzgerald

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USAF said:
America's right wing weighs in with their typical intelligent and well reasoned input.
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Yeah, there's nasty politics all over this thread. Just look at the original story which started off with a blistering shot at Biden for incompetence and being in miles over his head. Then it seamlessly drifts into NU football and Fitz.

Go figure.
 



Dave H said:
First of all why does he deserve better?

Second, football should always take a backseat to research at a friggin school. Football is a sport.
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As should be the case with the principal mission as an institution of higher learning. They are willing to expiate the football program.

NW can do as it pleases to protect its reputation. IMHO, they jumped the gun too quickly. It should have been an indefinite suspension until the facts are brought to bear.

It feels too draconian a punishment. IMHO, a longer suspension with preventative corrective measures established is more apropos.
 
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USAF said:
First, What the actual **** are you talking about? Seriously? What does PJ's contract have to do with any of this?

But ok, I'll humor your attempt to avoid the subject:
Did the U contract a private law firm to conduct a months long investigation of Fleck? Did said law firm submit an investigation essentially confirming the accusations? Was there a shred of authenticity to anything alleged? Did the U take disciplinary action?

No?

Then stop. You fucked up, it's ok. It happens. There was plenty of fire under the original smoke. Fitz ended up fired. Pretending this was always just unfounded rumor or less was wrong, but no big deal. Stubbornly sticking with that...pathetic.
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I said no weaseling.

You’re a fraud. Just answer the question. You think Norton is lying, or not.

Did I do something to you in a former life? You seem really upset about this….
 

Dave H said:
If there was supervision there would be no questions about what did or did not happen. Someone would have been there to say "hey that dude is lying the players never hazed like that!" or "they attempted those things but we put a stop to it". And supervision doesn't mean players, but coaches or managers. Someone who can keep an eye on what is going on with the team while Fitz has his back turned like Colonel Klink.

Was that a serious question?
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Yes

Many people said exactly that. You guys keep acting like you know what happened, or even like you know what’s in the report. You don’t, but are getting extra wound up about our questioning of the facts and testimony within a report -something the school is actively hiding from view.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Yes

Many people said exactly that. You guys keep acting like you know what happened, or even like you know what’s in the report. You don’t, but are getting extra wound up about our questioning of the facts and testimony within a report -something the school is actively hiding from view.
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I’m not getting wound up about anything except for people saying or implying there is no way they can fire him for cause.
 



hungan1 said:
As should be the case with the principal mission as an institution of higher learning. They are willing to expiate the football program.

NW can do as it pleases to protect its reputation. IMHO, they jumped the gun too quickly. It should have been an indefinite suspension until the facts are brought to bear.

It feels too draconian a punishment. IMHO, a longer suspension with preventative corrective measures established is more apropos.
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My speculation: They commissioned a report with instructions to present Fitzgerald in the best possible light as the face and shining star of the athletic department.
The law firm did that. They found a big number of instances going back years this type of behavior has been prevalent. While they found lots of troubling evidence, as instructed they magically couldn't tie any of it to anyone.

The President follows his plan to say we took it serious and I punished Fitzgerald with two weeks.

THEN, he gets backlash and the student newspaper report. THEN, he reads the dang report! (He said so). THEN, he talks to the whistleblower. THEN, he goes...OH Shit, I have no choice but to fire Fitzgerald...this is horrible stuff. Somewhere at this point more people come forward with more evidence. More people come forward with racism claims.

There is no way Fitzgerald didn't know and shouldn't be fired. NO WAY! Even if he didn't know...(it's too ludicrous and dumb to even type that)....but even if he didn't know that is absolutely cause to fire him.
This was a pattern of repeated offenses over many years.
 
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Dave H said:
The school wasn't expecting this to blow up. It is more likely their "investigation" was half assed as a CYA move and they figured a two week suspension would make it go away. The whole think stinks of a Friday news dump. What changed was that none of that happened and they pulled the pin on a live grenade.

What should have happened was they "suspend him indefinitely pending an independent investigation" and then let everything play out. That would have made way more sense and given them time to get their ducks in a row if they were going to fire him. They chose to gamble the story would go away and it didnt.

And for the record if there isn't a "safe culture for student athletes" clause in his contract then Northwestern is the stupidest bunch of smart people ever.
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Most of this I agree with.

But again, what proof do you have he didn’t cultivate a safe climate. Hindsight is 20/20. You’re saying there is total surveillance of all activities, rooms, players at all times? Is that reasonable? I guess I’m at odds with some of you that he “must have known” but that depends on what happened and to what extent.
 


Some guy said:
I’m not getting wound up about anything except for people saying or implying there is no way they can fire him for cause.
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I think that depends, and hinges on some unknowns and standards and what a reasonable person on a jury thinks once the extent of activities comes out..
 



60's Guy said:
There is no way Fitzgerald didn't know and shouldn't be fired. NO WAY! Even if he didn't know...(it's too ludicrous and dumb to even type that)....but even if he didn't know that is absolutely cause to fire him.
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^That’s the narrative but that was contained within the two week suspension statement as well.

Spell it out for me, how would a head coach know. Know what? Do we know yet? The report is private.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
^That’s the narrative but that was contained within the two week suspension statement as well.

Spell it out for me, how would a head coach know. Know what? Do we know yet? The report is private.
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Come on, did you play sports? Have you coached? There is 15 assistant coaches 25 support personnel, there are trainers, there are equipment managers, there are student managers, there are janitors. They have coaches meetings every day. They are in the building 8 plus hours a day talking football. But the coach knows nothing, never heard anything about this? COME ON MAN!

This happened with over a decade of confirmed occurrences. Multiple times, multiple seasons.
Clearly a pattern. Clearly a culture. Clearly the "Wildcat Way".

It only happens that long because the head coach is leading or condoning the culture. It couldn't possibly be a several years long secret without his knowledge. The head coach directing it is the only reason it perpetuates over multiple years with new assistants, new players.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I think that depends, and hinges on some unknowns and standards and what a reasonable person on a jury thinks once the extent of activities comes out..
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I don’t disagree with that. But
1) I don’t think it goes to a jury
2) nobody on this board has any idea, so someone saying it isn’t a justified firing for cause is being just as dumb as someone saying it’s definitely a justified firing for cause
 

Pompous Elitist said:
^That’s the narrative but that was contained within the two week suspension statement as well.

Spell it out for me, how would a head coach know. Know what? Do we know yet? The report is private.
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i don’t think that’s a really good argument to a jury

“How was the head coach supposed to know what’s going on in his locker room?”


He only can make that argument if he is okay never being hired for a college job again.

To me it’s an admission of gross negligence of what his job was. The statement might be fireable even if there was no harassment. Maybe his contract says nothing about safe environment for student-athletes. Would be the first such contract in education that I’ve ever seen for a coach/teacher/professor/administrator.
 




allegations are not facts. in order to become facts, there would have to be an investigation by some outside agency - potentially with the power to issue subpoenas and compel testimony if needed.

if I swear to something under oath in court, or sit for a deposition, or give a notarized statement - that is a lot different than an anonymous person making allegations.

certainly, the allegations may be true. but at this point, they have not been proven true through any type of official proceeding or investigation.

what we know - or think we know - NW did an internal investigation. that investigation concluded that the Head Coach did not know about the alleged activity. the school announced a 2-week suspension. then, before any additional investigation was done, new claims and allegations were made, and the school fired the coach apparently (and I say apparently) based on what are legally unproven allegations.

I remind people that in the Gopher football sexual assault case, there were allegations that Antione Winfield Jr was involved. it was later determined that he was at a different location at the time of the incident. so at least some of the initial reports/allegations proved to be incorrect. it is certainly possible that some of the allegations in the NW case may be incorrect - but we don't know that yet.
 


The saddest part about stories like these is that in 2023 there is still hazing of a sexual nature taking place in locker rooms and within sports teams.

No place for crap like that, you shouldn't need to sexually assault a teammate to feel connected as a team. Just pathetic.
 

Our last look at NU lead by Pat Fitzgerald.
Not necessarily related. Is Chicago recruiting even more open now?
 

Unless NWU capitulates to Fitzgerald's demands there will be a law suit and then hear say will be replaced with testimony under oath.
If they do capitulate it is evidence their case for firing him was not that solid.
 

Some guy said:
i don’t think that’s a really good argument to a jury

“How was the head coach supposed to know what’s going on in his locker room?”


He only can make that argument if he is okay never being hired for a college job again.

To me it’s an admission of gross negligence of what his job was. The statement might be fireable even if there was no harassment. Maybe his contract says nothing about safe environment for student-athletes. Would be the first such contract in education that I’ve ever seen for a coach/teacher/professor/administrator.
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Judges and juries require proof, not allegations. Maybe that exists? Humphries stated he informed multiple coaches of this hazing, to boot.


WILLIAMSPORT - Penn State and head football coach James Franklin are no longer defendants in the sexual harassment and hazing suit brought by former player Isaiah Humphries.

U.S. Middle District Judge Matthew W. Brann Friday granted their motions to dismiss, noting he had allowed Humphries to amend his original complaint three times.

“Humphries’ latest complaint must be his last complaint,” the judge wrote. “He’s had four tries.

“If he could have alleged facts to support his various claims, he would have done so by now.

“I therefore find that further amendment would be futile and that it would be improper to require Penn State and Franklin to defend against these claims yet again.”

The only remaining defendant in the case is Damion Barber, who Humphries accused of hazing and harassing him between November 2018 and November 2019. Barber, who transferred to Austin Peay last year, has filed a separate motion to dismiss the suit.


www.pennlive.com

Penn State, James Franklin dismissed from Isaiah Humphries’ sexual harassment lawsuit

U.S. Middle District Matthew W. Brann wrote while Humphries' complaint possessed attention-grabbing details, it lacked in substance.
www.pennlive.com www.pennlive.com
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Judges and juries require proof, not allegations. Maybe that exists? Humphries stated he informed multiple coaches of this hazing, to boot.


WILLIAMSPORT - Penn State and head football coach James Franklin are no longer defendants in the sexual harassment and hazing suit brought by former player Isaiah Humphries.

U.S. Middle District Judge Matthew W. Brann Friday granted their motions to dismiss, noting he had allowed Humphries to amend his original complaint three times.

“Humphries’ latest complaint must be his last complaint,” the judge wrote. “He’s had four tries.

“If he could have alleged facts to support his various claims, he would have done so by now.

“I therefore find that further amendment would be futile and that it would be improper to require Penn State and Franklin to defend against these claims yet again.”

The only remaining defendant in the case is Damion Barber, who Humphries accused of hazing and harassing him between November 2018 and November 2019. Barber, who transferred to Austin Peay last year, has filed a separate motion to dismiss the suit.


www.pennlive.com

Penn State, James Franklin dismissed from Isaiah Humphries’ sexual harassment lawsuit

U.S. Middle District Matthew W. Brann wrote while Humphries' complaint possessed attention-grabbing details, it lacked in substance.
www.pennlive.com www.pennlive.com
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and this case is not that case with one person saying things, not corroborated by others, with frequent changing of his story. we aren't at filing for criminal charges right now. maybe we will be. arguing that we're evaluating this a judge right now is not where the case is at. we're random people on a message board, not judges/juries. it's all speculative and i don't get why you can't understand/accept that. It's not going to change someone's mind who views the current info we have differently than you to bring out a bunch of random cases.
 

Plato said:
Unless NWU capitulates to Fitzgerald's demands there will be a law suit and then hear say will be replaced with testimony under oath.
If they do capitulate it is evidence their case for firing him was not that solid.
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personally i would want for this to go to trial so those that did this are implicated and held accountable as these acts have no place anywhere. An awful lot of hiding behind anonymity as of now
 


Pompous Elitist said:
Judges and juries require proof, not allegations. Maybe that exists? Humphries stated he informed multiple coaches of this hazing, to boot.


WILLIAMSPORT - Penn State and head football coach James Franklin are no longer defendants in the sexual harassment and hazing suit brought by former player Isaiah Humphries.

U.S. Middle District Judge Matthew W. Brann Friday granted their motions to dismiss, noting he had allowed Humphries to amend his original complaint three times.

“Humphries’ latest complaint must be his last complaint,” the judge wrote. “He’s had four tries.

“If he could have alleged facts to support his various claims, he would have done so by now.

“I therefore find that further amendment would be futile and that it would be improper to require Penn State and Franklin to defend against these claims yet again.”

The only remaining defendant in the case is Damion Barber, who Humphries accused of hazing and harassing him between November 2018 and November 2019. Barber, who transferred to Austin Peay last year, has filed a separate motion to dismiss the suit.


www.pennlive.com

Penn State, James Franklin dismissed from Isaiah Humphries’ sexual harassment lawsuit

U.S. Middle District Matthew W. Brann wrote while Humphries' complaint possessed attention-grabbing details, it lacked in substance.
www.pennlive.com www.pennlive.com
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Yup. Maybe it does

Maybe it doesn’t.


Northwestern has every right to fire Fitzgerald at any point. And they did. Now it’s a matter of how much they’re going to pay to fire him.
He’d probably like all of it. They’d probably prefer none of it. I would guess they’ll settle in the middle
 

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