Neal: Moving forward with Ben Johnson is the only option for Gophers men’s basketball

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TwistingMyMelon said:
Fred Hoiberg is an example of someone who started poorly but improved over time. If you scour the coaching ranks, you can find others.

Johnson still has some work to do in order to earn renewal but if he ends up winning 20 or more games when it's all said and done, he might be worth keeping.

Try to remember that what anyone on this board thinks really has no consequence. No one here will make the actual coaching decision.
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I'm more meaning, why would I care about Hoiberg when he, prior to his Nebby tenure, had made 4 NCAA tournaments and a sweet 16 and try comparing him to Ben?

Could Ben improve? Absolutely and again I'm hoping it happens, he makes the NCAA tourney, etc., and it injects some life back into this program. The recruiting class is not going to do that unless it comes with some splashy transfer portal guys (which I'm sure the beat writers here are cuing up the list of MN guys). You're not selling the casual fan on another year in full on rebuild mode hoping you bring in another band of mid major transfer portal guys.

Ben has had talent on all of his teams (there's been an NBA player on his roster every year and, if DG makes it like many suspect he will, several years with 2) and yet here we are. Again I really hope he pulls it off and they make the tournament and it creates some momentum for him to build and recruit to

and yes of course. It's a message board. Coyle may say he doesn't care about any of these things but that we're not paying the buyout right now. No idea what he'll ultimately decide.
 

MNVCGUY said:
This.

First couple months of the season were bad. Unimpressive non-conf wins over bad teams mixed with some bad loses.

Last month to month and a half (starting with the Maryland game) has been solid. Some really nice wins on the road and against good teams combined with a few lopsided loses and one egg laying against Washington.

Will be interesting to see how the team closes out the season. 5 regular season games left and the only really difficult one is at home against Wisconsin (they are playing really good right now). The other 4 are very winnable if the team keeps playing the way it has been of late. But this team also can't take anyone for granted and is fully capable of dropping any of the games left on the schedule.

Should make the BTT at this point and team has the potential to be a tough out for whoever they get matched up with. NCAA tournament seems like an extreme longshot but other post season tournaments may be back in play.

As we sit here today I still think a coaching change happens but a lot is going to hinge on what happens over the remainder of the season. Prior to this recent stretch I would have said a firing was a certainty.....now....still think it is likely but the door is cracked for a possible return next year.
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Amen. Even an hallelujah.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Wouldn't you always complain if something sucks? If you're not going to complain and be unhappy with continued losing, what are your options? I guess you could stop watching and supporting altogether.
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The point is that it doesn't suck and it's currently not continued losing. Yeah, crappy body of work overall, etc. But he's got the team playing better than expected against decent teams which should be recognized. Much of what I see are perpetual detractors panicking and raging about having to see another year of the guy instead of having a rational take of "they're playing well and maybe he's more mediocre than God awful, but we should still move on," and instead am seeing a doubling down of douchebaggery via sentiments such as "you guys who are supportive of him are fucking morons who have no idea what kind of damage this guy is doing to our program long term" like this isn't another retread of the same thing the program has experienced for decades.

There are some people who are rationally critical but fair, and then there are miserable people who can't find satisfaction in anything other than being able to complain and denigrate people who question their negativity or show any positivity. It's gotta be exhausting to live that life.
 

ShushPush said:
Well, he has a 14-12 record overall and a 6-9 record in the BIG. The trendline is that the team may well end up with a winning BIG record of plus 0.500. If they get there, what will you say then? My guess is very little back peddling and more "He wasn't responsible for the dubs."
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It'd be great if we finished 4-1 or 3-2 which means we won more games than we lost. However, in the grand scheme of things, this team will be no different than last years team, or the year that got Pitino fired. Pending what happens in the B1GT.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
For some reason I think someone who literally works for the University might know what the University is willing to pay compared to Dave H and Bob from Gopherhole.com.
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You think the average employee at the U (pick a person who works at the U at random) would have a better guess than a die hard college basketball fan? Let me know the next time you're heading to a casino anywhere.
 


Gophers7633 said:
It'd be great if we finished 4-1 or 3-2 which means we won more games than we lost. However, in the grand scheme of things, this team will be no different than last years team, or the year that got Pitino fired. Pending what happens in the B1GT.
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Pitino was fired after two consecutive OVERALL losing seasons (and after 8 years). Hell, if Johnson ends up with an overall losing season this year, I think the decision should be a no brainer.
 


Johnnyboy18 said:
Good thing we aren't dead last in anything related to mens basketball besides coaching salary isn't it Bob The Lawyer?
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You're the one who brought up being dead last.

But since you brought it up, things we are dead last in:
  • Going to the NCAA tournament. Every Big 10 team has been to the NCAAA tournament since our last appearance. I believe every team except Nebraska has been TWICE since our last appearance.
  • Conference wins since Ben Johnson has been coach.

Ya know, just sort of things usually used to evaluate coaches.
 
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TwistingMyMelon said:
Pitino was fired after two consecutive OVERALL losing seasons (and after 8 years). Hell, if Johnson ends up with an overall losing season this year, I think the decision should be a no brainer.
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Sure, but Pitino had a much more challenging OOC schedule in 2019-2020. And in his last year only played 7 total OOC games. That 2020 team is a lot better than this team and last year's team, unfortunately.
 

Gophers7633 said:
It'd be great if we finished 4-1 or 3-2 which means we won more games than we lost. However, in the grand scheme of things, this team will be no different than last years team, or the year that got Pitino fired. Pending what happens in the B1GT.
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Fans will be tuned in to see how these remaining games turn out. The drama is dizzying!
 

I'm comfortable with Coyle making his decision on the program. However, for Neal to "keeping roster stability" when there are 9 seniors on the roster, shows he did no research.

In NIL era, what is stability.


Rick Pitino already said that he can't recruit HS kids to preplace the best 3 players who are leaving from the program. That will come down to transfers and NIL support.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
He didn’t? Pitino was the coach when COVID happened. He also lost Coffey and Oturu early to the draft.
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You are right and I was wrong about Covid, but my point still stands. Pitino did not deal with NIL at Minnesota and didn’t lose a star player to the NBA after a freshman season. Oturo played two, Coffey three.
 



Go4POV said:
You are right and I was wrong about Covid, but my point still stands. Pitino did not deal with NIL at Minnesota and didn’t lose a star player to the NBA after a freshman season. Oturo played two, Coffey three.
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Pitino is currently dealing with NIL at New Mexico. Their attrition is very similar to ours. Lost two important players to the portal, another to graduation (instead of the NBA) and he's got them rolling again.
 

Go4POV said:
You are right and I was wrong about Covid, but my point still stands. Pitino did not deal with NIL at Minnesota and didn’t lose a star player to the NBA after a freshman season. Oturo played two, Coffey three.
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We've brought in more talent due to the portal/NIL than we've lost.
 


mngg11 said:
The point is that it doesn't suck and it's currently not continued losing. Yeah, crappy body of work overall, etc. But he's got the team playing better than expected against decent teams which should be recognized. Much of what I see are perpetual detractors panicking and raging about having to see another year of the guy instead of having a rational take of "they're playing well and maybe he's more mediocre than God awful, but we should still move on," and instead am seeing a doubling down of douchebaggery via sentiments such as "you guys who are supportive of him are fucking morons who have no idea what kind of damage this guy is doing to our program long term" like this isn't another retread of the same thing the program has experienced for decades.

There are some people who are rationally critical but fair, and then there are miserable people who can't find satisfaction in anything other than being able to complain and denigrate people who question their negativity or show any positivity. It's gotta be exhausting to live that life.
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Recency Bias.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Pitino is currently dealing with NIL at New Mexico. Their attrition is very similar to ours. Lost two important players to the portal, another to graduation (instead of the NBA) and he's got them rolling again.
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Do you know anything about how Basketball NIL shakes out between the Mountain West teams? I don't.

One thing that might help NIL basketball funding at New Mexico relative to some other MW teams is that they have a terrible football program right now (losing seasons in 15 of the last 17 years). Of course, they also don't have hockey. Pitino went to a basketball school and that helps.
 




TwistingMyMelon said:
Do you know anything about how Basketball NIL shakes out between the Mountain West teams? I don't.

One thing that might help NIL basketball funding at New Mexico relative to some other MW teams is that they have a terrible football program right now (losing seasons in 15 of the last 17 years). Of course, they also don't have hockey. Pitino went to a basketball school and that helps.
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Not really other than he lost his two best returning players to the portal. I'd guess teams like UNLV, San Diego State, Boise State, Nevada, Colorado State, Utah State and New Mexico are all probably similar. I don't think any of them have what I would consider "good" NIL.
 



TwistingMyMelon said:
The eighties were all right but I preferred the seventies. I don't think I'd ever want to go that far backwards though. I'd miss all the modern conveniences that I've come to rely upon since then.
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I don't want to go back any further than when smoking was banned on all domestic air travel.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
For some reason I think someone who literally works for the University might know what the University is willing to pay compared to Dave H and Bob from Gopherhole.com.
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Can we at least pay a coach who has earned a raise to 2 million a year? That might make us more competitive.
 

mngg11 said:
The point is that it doesn't suck and it's currently not continued losing. Yeah, crappy body of work overall, etc. But he's got the team playing better than expected against decent teams which should be recognized. Much of what I see are perpetual detractors panicking and raging about having to see another year of the guy instead of having a rational take of "they're playing well and maybe he's more mediocre than God awful, but we should still move on," and instead am seeing a doubling down of douchebaggery via sentiments such as "you guys who are supportive of him are fucking morons who have no idea what kind of damage this guy is doing to our program long term" like this isn't another retread of the same thing the program has experienced for decades.

There are some people who are rationally critical but fair, and then there are miserable people who can't find satisfaction in anything other than being able to complain and denigrate people who question their negativity or show any positivity. It's gotta be exhausting to live that life.
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I think the reason why the perpetual detractors have this kind of reaction is because the other folks do not hold the belief in the bold.

LEN is arguing that we should continue on with Ben Johnson. It's our only option. That's insanity. The reaction to that kind of article should be pure ridicule. Hell, if the tone of his article was more like "hey, I know this might not be popular, but maybe keeping Johnson is AN option" could be an interesting discussion. That was not LEN's argument.

When you couple that with the bizarre supporters of Ben Johnson who argue that we couldn't possibly get better for $2 million per year. Or they argue that NIL isn't fair to Ben or it's all pointless anyways because of NIL.

What you've put in the bold is 100% rationale. Hell, while I disagree, I think BG is actually being rationale saying Ben is coming close to earning another season. LEN's take isn't rationale. Most of the Ben Johnson coping committee are not rationale.
 


Ope3 said:
I don't want to go back any further than when smoking was banned on all domestic air travel.
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Yeah, that seems inconceivable today. Early this century, another guy and I were describing the TV cigarette commercials that we remembered from our youth to a much younger woman. She was giggling like hell at the descriptions because she couldn't imagine such a thing.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Let's keep repeating the same cycle every 4-8 years and expecting things to change. It's almost like this program is really hard to win at.

I really don't care if they fire Ben Johnson. I also don't think hiring Johnny Tauer or whatever other mid-major coach at the worst salary in the B1G is going to magically change the program from what it is. Who could have predicted that a coach who hasn't coached before was going to struggle the 1st few years? Better find a booster to pay for a big time coach or nothing is going to change.

People talking about crowds at Williams Arena is also hilarious to me. Has anyone watched college basketball lately? Did you see the crowds at UCLA, USC, Maryland or Iowa? The 90s aren't coming back.
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Agree. I am continually surprised by the empty seats all over the country. At Purdue last night the guy with the sledgehammer would have had a hard time finding anyone in arms length to injure.

As for the coaching situation. MN has been a graveyard for BB coaches for years. And that was before NIL. With NIL it’s just worse. No high profile super recruiter is coming here to fight for transfers and new recruits knowing the funding isn’t there. Also, remember NIL is not the only funding out there. It’s the Wild West, and the checkbooks are open for teams that have sugar daddys!
 

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