Neal: Moving forward with Ben Johnson is the only option for Gophers men’s basketball

Donate To GopherHole
atsgopher said:
There will likey be a transfer portal cliff next year. The COVID players are gone. Much more unknowns to sidt through. Likely going to suck for a lot of programs.
Click to expand...
Unless the NCAA adapts the 5 Years to Play 5 seasons rule that has been proposed.
 




We’ve fired our last two coaches who had not only taken the Gophers to the Big Dance, but won games in the tournament. Now we’re not giving BJ a fair shot despite not sniffing the tournament in four years? The local idiots get all fired up over a couple of upsets and ignore the overall track record of failure.
 


ShushPush said:
If the year Pitino got fired mattered whatsoever to what another person does as a coach... No manager ever said, "You're mediocre just like Ted over there. Therefore, I feel like your body of work is just like Ted's" said no competent manager ever.
Click to expand...
If Ted got fired for mediocrity and you are just like Ted you should be fired for mediocrity too.
 



I think it's plain to see that:

1. Ben can identify talent, including talent that requires a skilled eye to locate.

2. His teams get better as the season goes on.

Those two things tell me he's got what it takes to be a coach.

That said, I don't think it's in his personality to be a CEO. Can he locate the best assistant coaches? Maintain and expand connections to other assistant coaches and head coaches to develop a "bench" of prospective replacement candidates? Work the high-net-worth community and business community to fund a competitive NIL fund? And so on.

If the AD could shoulder the CEO part, I think he can shoulder the coach part effectively and successfully. ...But if we're counting on Ben to, for example, solve the NIL problem by himself, that's not going to happen. He's not PJ (who most certainly IS a CEO) -- and to be fair, few are: I don't think Ryan Day has what it takes to really be a CEO, but he's in an environment where that's not needed.

We need to put Ben in an environment where he can be a coach without being a CEO. ...Or we need to locate a candidate than can be BOTH.
 



Bad Gopher said:
I can admit there are different ways of looking at this, especially with the team's recent surge. But, that the author claims there's only one possible answer, speaks to either his arrogance or agenda or, likely, some of both.
Click to expand...

Your first sentence shows that you can understand and even appreciate ambiguity. Your second sentence describes someone who either doesn't have that understanding or chooses not to display it. That probably makes him like half the fans on message boards.
 

touchdownvikings said:
I think it's plain to see that:

1. Ben can identify talent, including talent that requires a skilled eye to locate.

2. His teams get better as the season goes on.

Those two things tell me he's got what it takes to be a coach.

That said, I don't think it's in his personality to be a CEO. Can he locate the best assistant coaches? Maintain and expand connections to other assistant coaches and head coaches to develop a "bench" of prospective replacement candidates? Work the high-net-worth community and business community to fund a competitive NIL fund? And so on.

If the AD could shoulder the CEO part, I think he can shoulder the coach part effectively and successfully. ...But if we're counting on Ben to, for example, solve the NIL problem by himself, that's not going to happen. He's not PJ (who most certainly IS a CEO) -- and to be fair, few are: I don't think Ryan Day has what it takes to really be a CEO, but he's in an environment where that's not needed.

We need to put Ben in an environment where he can be a coach without being a CEO. ...Or we need to locate a candidate than can be BOTH.
Click to expand...
His first 2 teams did not get better. He won 6 conference games total. Last year they played terrible to close the season. This year almost anything positive now looks better than how we started.I will say the last month has been fun, I even watched some replays of the recent victories. Having said that, he still got to go. This a guy so stubborn with his starting lineup that he started JOJ over Payne to guard Zach Edey. I also remember the iron 5 game where the bench allegedly did not want to play. #neverforget
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
Your first sentence shows that you can understand and even appreciate ambiguity. Your second sentence describes someone who either doesn't have that understanding or chooses not to display it. That probably makes him like half the fans on message boards.
Click to expand...
Unlike any of us, he's paid to write provocative stuff that sells papers or clicks. Few columnists and TV personalities have valid insights; that's not what they're paid for. By presenting this as a cut and dried matter, he appeals to an audience who wants to believe they're not stupid and can understand these kinds of matters, when the opposite is really true. I've never read one of his columns all the way through because it's just not worth my time.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Unlike any of us, he's paid to write provocative stuff that sells papers or clicks. Few columnists and TV personalities have valid insights; that's not what they're paid for. By presenting this as a cut and dried matter, he appeals to an audience who wants to believe they're not stupid and can understand these kinds of matters, when the opposite is really true. I've never read one of his columns all the way through because it's just not worth my time.
Click to expand...

I've never started one. I don't care much for sports "journalism" or talk in general.
 



I don't know how to break down responsibility for our poor recruiting between the NIL situation and his own recruiting and roster construction abilities, but I think it's fair to say he is a bad recruiter in this environment, and I don't see any reason we should expect that to improve.

One thing I will say for him (or his team) is that player development seems to be an area of strength. There have been counterexamples (Ola Joseph immediately springs to mind), but overall, I've been pleased at players' progress over the course of seasons and across seasons for those few that have stayed long enough.

Maybe if that reputation became more established we'd start to get more promising young players who want to use us as a stepping stone to a bigger program with more NIL. I'm not holding my breath though.
 

goldenboy said:
We’ve fired our last two coaches who had not only taken the Gophers to the Big Dance, but won games in the tournament. Now we’re not giving BJ a fair shot despite not sniffing the tournament in four years? The local idiots get all fired up over a couple of upsets and ignore the overall track record of failure.
Click to expand...
How will we know which ones of us are the "local idiots"? That seems not only a subjective metric, but also extremely non specific! Local? Is there a mileage range one must live within? Idiots? Is it necessary to have them in multiples? How about IQ? Do you have a numerical level in mind?

To help you lay out some metrics. I live within approx 100 mi from downtown Minneapolis. I can also say without reservation that my IQ easily exceeds the 65 level. One last question.what if one is an idiot, but not local? Or vise versa?

Hopefully this is a help? It’s long overdue that we differentiate between those of us who are local, those of us who are idiots, those who are just plain stupid, and those of us who apparently don’t have access to a mirror?
 

Gopheritnow said:
How will we know which ones of us are the "local idiots"? That seems not only a subjective metric, but also extremely non specific! Local? Is there a mileage range one must live within? Idiots? Is it necessary to have them in multiples? How about IQ? Do you have a numerical level in mind?

To help you lay out some metrics. I live within approx 100 mi from downtown Minneapolis. I can also say without reservation that my IQ easily exceeds the 65 level. One last question.what if one is an idiot, but not local? Or vise versa?

Hopefully this is a help? It’s long overdue that we differentiate between those of us who are local, those of us who are idiots, those who are just plain stupid, and those of us who apparently don’t have access to a mirror?
Click to expand...
Paul, your hand is up…
 

ATLgopherfan said:
I don't know how to break down responsibility for our poor recruiting between the NIL situation and his own recruiting and roster construction abilities, but I think it's fair to say he is a bad recruiter in this environment, and I don't see any reason we should expect that to improve.

One thing I will say for him (or his team) is that player development seems to be an area of strength. There have been counterexamples (Ola Joseph immediately springs to mind), but overall, I've been pleased at players' progress over the course of seasons and across seasons for those few that have stayed long enough.

Maybe if that reputation became more established we'd start to get more promising young players who want to use us as a stepping stone to a bigger program with more NIL. I'm not holding my breath though.
Click to expand...
Bottom line, he doesn't win, which is a combination of recruiting, development and coaching. Clem built an Elite Eight team with 2- and 3-star recruits plus one Willie Burton, who was top-100. He developed them and coached the hell out of them. The Gophers' current roster has more equivalent recruiting stars than that team. The. Gophers have at least as many players in the NBA as the Badgers do right now.
 


touchdownvikings said:
I think it's plain to see that:

1. Ben can identify talent, including talent that requires a skilled eye to locate.

2. His teams get better as the season goes on.

Those two things tell me he's got what it takes to be a coach.

That said, I don't think it's in his personality to be a CEO. Can he locate the best assistant coaches? Maintain and expand connections to other assistant coaches and head coaches to develop a "bench" of prospective replacement candidates? Work the high-net-worth community and business community to fund a competitive NIL fund? And so on.

If the AD could shoulder the CEO part, I think he can shoulder the coach part effectively and successfully. ...But if we're counting on Ben to, for example, solve the NIL problem by himself, that's not going to happen. He's not PJ (who most certainly IS a CEO) -- and to be fair, few are: I don't think Ryan Day has what it takes to really be a CEO, but he's in an environment where that's not needed.

We need to put Ben in an environment where he can be a coach without being a CEO. ...Or we need to locate a candidate than can be BOTH.
Click to expand...
Bolded: I wonder if part of the "problem", or maybe a better thing to say is part of the "new reality", is that every year the roster is going to be featuring a lot of guys who transfer in. Guys from lower level looking to play up to the Big Ten and prove themselves, and guys transferring in from other P5 trying to get a better playing situation.

And, for whatever reason, it's just friggin tough to get these new guys fully up to speed and gelled together playing well before Jan?

You'd love to move that schedule up a month, obviously.

I dunno, just wondering if that's a factor, and going to be a factor going forward.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Bottom line, he doesn't win, which is a combination of recruiting, development and coaching. Clem built an Elite Eight team with 2- and 3-star recruits plus one Willie Burton, who was top-100. He developed them and coached the hell out of them. The Gophers' current roster has more equivalent recruiting stars than that team. The. Gophers have at least as many players in the NBA as the Badgers do right now.
Click to expand...
And, in my opinion, the Big Ten was a far tougher conference to do that in the late 80s, with stud players who would stay 3-4 years, and a host of Hall of Fame coaches (Knight, Keady, Heathcote, Henson, Gary Williams) and other excellent coaches (Frieder/Fisher, Dr Tom) to battle against. It was a very different era, but Clem did indeed coach the hell out of those teams and made his players better.
 

GopherGrit said:
Bolded: I wonder if part of the "problem", or maybe a better thing to say is part of the "new reality", is that every year the roster is going to be featuring a lot of guys who transfer in. Guys from lower level looking to play up to the Big Ten and prove themselves, and guys transferring in from other P5 trying to get a better playing situation.

And, for whatever reason, it's just friggin tough to get these new guys fully up to speed and gelled together playing well before Jan?

You'd love to move that schedule up a month, obviously.

I dunno, just wondering if that's a factor, and going to be a factor going forward.
Click to expand...
It's why you schedule better non conference opponents. You can take plays off, you can make mistakes, you defend at 80% effort and still win with the low level teams we play in December.
But, by playing teams better than you, teams better than your conference opponents...that accelerates growth. Presents the reality of how hard you will have to play to compete.
Just like the conference schedule demonstrates...we get smacked in the mouth half a dozen times in conference and then we understand what it takes to compete and win. But the chicken non conference schedule makes it take 15 games before we "get it" (understand the reality of the Big Ten)
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom