Neal: Moving forward with Ben Johnson is the only option for Gophers men’s basketball

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FinnGopher said:
Re-read what I have told you. We currently have a coach with no track record of success. Logic would conclude that continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the essence of foolishness.

So, how do the Gophers become consistent NCAA tournament participants? The answer is in making a change. That change is in hiring a coach that has shown themselves to win basketball games and make the NCAA tournament.

We are only doomed forever if we continue to do what has been done for the past four years. Even a casual fan should be able to grasp this, so what are you struggling with?
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Ah yes, that makes sense. We should hire someone with a proven track record, great coaching acumen, and has a national title to their name. That'll guarantee a winner! Funny we've never done that before, certainly not in the last 20 years.

I'm sorry your favorite(?) basketball team is winning games and you're possibly going to have to suffer through another year of Johnson. If only he was such a terrible coach that his players looked at their record a month back and decided to give up entirely on trying and just started playing for themselves. In actuality, they're the ones triggering your HBP. They're interfering in your hopes and dreams of a guy losing his job because his performance isn't matching your expectations for a traditionally middling basketball program. You should demand they be fired too. Lucky for you it's a bunch of seniors😉

Enjoy the rest of your season! Or, hate it, whichever. Do what you do. 👋
 

mngg11 said:
Ah yes, that makes sense. We should hire someone with a proven track record, great coaching acumen, and has a national title to their name. That'll guarantee a winner! Funny we've never done that before, certainly not in the last 20 years.

I'm sorry your favorite(?) basketball team is winning games and you're possibly going to have to suffer through another year of Johnson. If only he was such a terrible coach that his players looked at their record a month back and decided to give up entirely on trying and just started playing for themselves. In actuality, they're the ones triggering your HBP. They're interfering in your hopes and dreams of a guy losing his job because his performance isn't matching your expectations for a traditionally middling basketball program. You should demand they be fired too. Lucky for you it's a bunch of seniors😉

Enjoy the rest of your season! Or, hate it, whichever. Do what you do. 👋
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Excellent post. Thanks.

Some people choose to be negative.
 
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mngg11 said:
Counterpoint - He arguably had enough talent to be a top half of the conference team before NIL, which he has no control over, raped and pillaged our roster this offseason. We can go back and forth all day, he's getting table scraps to play hrd and play good team ball in a major conference. He deserves a little credit.
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He has control over NIL and decides who gets it of the pot he’s allocated. He arguably had talent, well we’ll never know how they would’ve done. Is it likely better? Maybe.

His team plays hard, but you can’t continually have the worst talent in the league given we’ll unload almost the whole team next year. He has done some nice things. I hope he keeps winning and makes the NCAA tournament as to me the biggest problem is the absolute apathy about the program that has set in. He does that and you see people back in the barn for next year starting the year (and to end the year) regardless of “predictions”.

The trouble is, If he had scheduled not a just fucking awful non con schedule, you’d have more a fighting chance to make that reality as what the casual fan cares about is not if the team goes 19-13 and beat usc and ucla. They care about making the tournament or being ranked, neither of which looks likely for yet another year.

And to say he’s exceeded expectations, well the expectations were to make the NCAA tournament per Coyle. Right now it looks like a failed to meet expectations kind of year again.

I like Ben as a guy and he seems to finally have a team that’s willing to play some defense (minus against the teams they don’t match up with athletically who beat the shit out of them). There seems to be some system there. Offensively it still is hard to see if he has any system or method to getting guys open (it doesn’t feel like it).

I hope he pulls it off. Williams is fun when you have a winner
 

howeda7 said:
The non-diehards don't give a $%% about Gopher basketball or Ben Johnson. They certainly don't think "wow he's exceeded expectations."
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This.

First couple months of the season were bad. Unimpressive non-conf wins over bad teams mixed with some bad loses.

Last month to month and a half (starting with the Maryland game) has been solid. Some really nice wins on the road and against good teams combined with a few lopsided loses and one egg laying against Washington.

Will be interesting to see how the team closes out the season. 5 regular season games left and the only really difficult one is at home against Wisconsin (they are playing really good right now). The other 4 are very winnable if the team keeps playing the way it has been of late. But this team also can't take anyone for granted and is fully capable of dropping any of the games left on the schedule.

Should make the BTT at this point and team has the potential to be a tough out for whoever they get matched up with. NCAA tournament seems like an extreme longshot but other post season tournaments may be back in play.

As we sit here today I still think a coaching change happens but a lot is going to hinge on what happens over the remainder of the season. Prior to this recent stretch I would have said a firing was a certainty.....now....still think it is likely but the door is cracked for a possible return next year.
 


MNVCGUY said:
This.

First couple months of the season were bad. Unimpressive non-conf wins over bad teams mixed with some bad loses.

Last month to month and a half (starting with the Maryland game) has been solid. Some really nice wins on the road and against good teams combined with a few lopsided loses and one egg laying against Washington.

Will be interesting to see how the team closes out the season. 5 regular season games left and the only really difficult one is at home against Wisconsin (they are playing really good right now). The other 4 are very winnable if the team keeps playing the way it has been of late. But this team also can't take anyone for granted and is fully capable of dropping any of the games left on the schedule.

Should make the BTT at this point and team has the potential to be a tough out for whoever they get matched up with. NCAA tournament seems like an extreme longshot but other post season tournaments may be back in play.

As we sit here today I still think a coaching change happens but a lot is going to hinge on what happens over the remainder of the season. Prior to this recent stretch I would have said a firing was a certainty.....now....still think it is likely but the door is cracked for a possible return next year.
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Agreed entirely and this was almost the conversation I had with my buddy last night who is the definition of a casually engaged fan. Knows who the coach and some players are but not much else and doesn’t otherwise follow cbb. All he said was it sucked they were bad early in the year and it caused him to tune out mid year. He’s come back with some of the late wins but this team is missing a signature of either a banner type win that means something or making the ncaa tournament. It’s been the story with the bb team for awhile is they give you some hope and then face plenty

Regarding the end of the year including the BTT, we’ll see if coyle was lying or not
Any combo that’s 4 wins or less and it’s easy and he’s fired.
5-6 wins and an invitational lower tier tourney and he didn’t meet expectations but there’s another late rise. Does he kick the can?
7+ wins and in the bubble vs in the tournament and I’d be shocked if Ben isn’t extended and kept around then
 

MNVCGUY said:
There might be some love from local media types but I don't think the local fanbase has any massive attachment to Johnson. Yes he is from here and played here but he wasn't a local legend or anything in the way someone like Whalen was.
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Yes I was referring specifically to the local media as Neal the 3rd authored this campaign ad for Ben. Most gopher fans forgot who Ben Johnson was before he was hired.
 


At the micro level it has been impressive to see this team improve throughout the year and win some games recently that many of us would not have expected. He deserves credit for those wins and for this improvement.

At the macro level he has a horrible conference record during his tenure and hasn't been close to an NCAA berth. Would any other B1G conference team see his record and want to sign him up for four years of similar results? If the answer is "no" or "not many" then why would we want the same? Are we really that different in NIL/expectations/environment/etc.?

If he is back next year (as I expect he will be), I hope he starts to understand his "process" for non-conference scheduling and improving a team throughout the year must be changed. You don't get 2.5 months to gel or find your roles or whatever as we so often hear on this board. In this era of constant turnover the best coaches find a way to play well throughout the year. Otherwise unexpected wins in February don't lead to much when your NET sits around 100.
 



Since most of these articles are intended to generate clicks and strike up a conversation / buzz, Neal did his job by capitalizing on recency bias. All of these outlets depend on traffic to and from the site to generate revenue. This is an easy "A" as the old saying goes. He is savvy enough to know the program is in really rough shape. Historically bad, putrid attendance and a large chorus of fans calling for a change. All he has to do is be the contrarian, write a fairly simple piece, and put it out there. It is like tossing raw meat to a pack of hungry wolves. Sit back and watch them feed.

The "only option"??? Come on folks. This is hyperbole to the extreme. Anyone that writes in absolutes like this is plucking the emotional strings in a highly charged atmosphere. Easy money.
 



mngg11 said:
Counterpoint - He arguably had enough talent to be a top half of the conference team before NIL, which he has no control over, raped and pillaged our roster this offseason. We can go back and forth all day, he's getting table scraps to play hrd and play good team ball in a major conference. He deserves a little credit.
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That was a hope but he was a long ways off from that last year so completely unproven. Sounds more like wishful thinking to me.
 




mngg11 said:
Counterpoint - He arguably had enough talent to be a top half of the conference team before NIL, which he has no control over, raped and pillaged our roster this offseason. We can go back and forth all day, he's getting table scraps to play hrd and play good team ball in a major conference. He deserves a little credit.
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If you do the work to be a zero and perform to a three that is not worth keeping your job.

And he gets none of the blame for the table scraps he put together? Interesting...
 

mngg11 said:
I'd classify a non-diehard as anyone who doesn't regularly peruse or post on this board. There are a lot of people who know that Ben Johnson is the Gophers head coach, Gopherhole isn't the sole location of the entirety of MN cbb fans. We're definitely the lunatic fringe of the Gopher fb/bb fanbase.
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Lunatic being the operational word in this post! 🤪
 
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mngg11 said:
Ah yes, that makes sense. We should hire someone with a proven track record, great coaching acumen, and has a national title to their name. That'll guarantee a winner! Funny we've never done that before, certainly not in the last 20 years.

I'm sorry your favorite(?) basketball team is winning games and you're possibly going to have to suffer through another year of Johnson. If only he was such a terrible coach that his players looked at their record a month back and decided to give up entirely on trying and just started playing for themselves. In actuality, they're the ones triggering your HBP. They're interfering in your hopes and dreams of a guy losing his job because his performance isn't matching your expectations for a traditionally middling basketball program. You should demand they be fired too. Lucky for you it's a bunch of seniors😉

Enjoy the rest of your season! Or, hate it, whichever. Do what you do. 👋
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So a guy who doesn't watch basketball feels the need to post this much about a topic he doesn't care about? Sorry doesn't pass the smell test...unless you just get your kicks trolling.

Here, how about this...if most of this team was coming back next year all of this would be much better. Shows progress and a hint of what could be next year. Maybe check the roster construction for next year and get back to us. I know you arent a fan but you probably know where the roster page is.

Again, the argument you make is that because the team was expected to be one of the worst and it is just pretty mediocre that is a positive. That is ridiculous. And it is the way it is because of theguy who put the team together.
 

USAF said:
You don't follow basketball, but you know it's just NIL. Heh.

Johnson is a fucking disaster and keeping him just means another disastrous year.

Even if it IS just NIL--and it isnt--don't we need someone able to overcome that? Or do we just bend over and permanently suck?
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I, and I imagine others, wish that one day you would just sit down and tell us what you REALLY think of Johnson? Let it all out, nothing held back, no filter. Just let er flow!
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
If this was Richard Pitino's first 4 years instead of Ben Johnson's, every hack sportswriter in Minnesota would be writing articles on how he needs to be fired.
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Highly doubt this apples to oranges comparison. Pitino did not deal with Covid or NIL, nor did he recruit and lose an NBA draft pick after a freshman year.
 

mngg11 said:
I'm a very, very casual basketball follower. I know Johnson isn't popular on this board but from a casual's pov the guy is exceeding expectations. You're the only people who see the in game management issues, most people look at the win/loss column and read about how the roster was decimated in the offseason and how they were predicted to be dead last. It's fair to be upset or disappointed but don't be surprised if he's back next year, I'd bet most non-diehards who don't live and breathe Gopher bball would say he's earned it.
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By not sniffing the tournament in four years? By coaching in a completely dead environment? By not retaining his best players?

These things aren't observable to a casual fan?
 

howeda7 said:
Ben has no control over NIL? Actually he has more control over NIL than anyone. PJ gets NIL because he wins and because he's good public speaker who pounds booster groups like the Golden Dunkers for $$. Ben doesn't get much NIL because he loses at historic rates, has little charisma and as far as I can tell makes little attempt to raise $$ on his own. Sure Coyle and others can take some blame on this too, but there's a reason there's a disparity even between sports at the U.
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This comment perfectly summarizes why Ben needs to go. The head coach has to be a capable NIL fundraiser, and clearly he's fallen short of that. There's been plenty of in-season improvement the last two years, but the job is much, much bigger than that, and it includes taking responsibility for the overall quality of the roster, not just how hard they play.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
Speaking of local media- did anyone listen to Justin Gaard's rant on the last Pair and a Spare pod last week?

He simply cannot see the forest for the trees on this issue. Amazing
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He said it perfectly and anyone who disagrees with him is a delusional fan who hasn't paid attention to the basketball program this century.
 

Personally I don't anything this team does the rest of the year should have any impact on his status. He should fired regardless..

The entire reason for bringing him back this year was based on progress and building a team. When those guys left least year that went out the window.

No one is coming back next year outside of maybe Asuma. Nothing is built. There is no progress for the future. He's had his chances. If this team wins a few more games, good for them. It's more fun that way. None of that should be an argument for doing this yet again.
 


Zeppelin Gopher said:
Speaking of local media- did anyone listen to Justin Gaard's rant on the last Pair and a Spare pod last week?

He simply cannot see the forest for the trees on this issue. Amazing
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Johnnyboy18 said:
He said it perfectly and anyone who disagrees with him is a delusional fan who hasn't paid attention to the basketball program this century.
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What is the Cliff's Notes version of Gaard's rant?

I otherwise try to avoid KFAN if at all possible besides the Sunday Morning wrap up after Gopher football Saturdays.
 


upnorthkid said:
Agreed entirely and this was almost the conversation I had with my buddy last night who is the definition of a casually engaged fan. Knows who the coach and some players are but not much else and doesn’t otherwise follow cbb. All he said was it sucked they were bad early in the year and it caused him to tune out mid year. He’s come back with some of the late wins but this team is missing a signature of either a banner type win that means something or making the ncaa tournament. It’s been the story with the bb team for awhile is they give you some hope and then face plenty

Regarding the end of the year including the BTT, we’ll see if coyle was lying or not
Any combo that’s 4 wins or less and it’s easy and he’s fired.
5-6 wins and an invitational lower tier tourney and he didn’t meet expectations but there’s another late rise. Does he kick the can?
7+ wins and in the bubble vs in the tournament and I’d be shocked if Ben isn’t extended and kept around then
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If he gets 4 more wins- he keeps his job. 3-2 in the regular season + 1 Big Ten win would be 9-11 and 18-15 after and 0-6 Big Ten start. Even better he gets 4 regular season wins and gets to 10-10.

I'm not saying it is a great performance- it isn't. But it would be an outstanding coaching achievement to bring this poorly assembled crew to 10-10 in the Big Ten after an 0-6 start. Actually kind of incredible if it happens. Nobody short of Gopher in NYC predicted that (and he admits he didn't believe it).

If he keeps his job, his extension and buyout should be performance based. Fired at less than 8-12 they shouldn't have to pay one. On the human side, I would actually like to see him pull it off and have him have a shot with revenue sharing to put together a talented roster. But for heaven sakes if he doesn't get at least 4 more games in the W column - they gotta move on.
 

Ope3 said:
What is the Cliff's Notes version of Gaard's rant?

I otherwise try to avoid KFAN if at all possible besides the Sunday Morning wrap up after Gopher football Saturdays.
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That firing a coach and hiring another coach for ~2 million dollars a year which is going to be dead last in the B1G isn't going to produce different results.
 

mngg11 said:
Ah yes, that makes sense. We should hire someone with a proven track record, great coaching acumen, and has a national title to their name. That'll guarantee a winner! Funny we've never done that before, certainly not in the last 20 years.

I'm sorry your favorite(?) basketball team is winning games and you're possibly going to have to suffer through another year of Johnson. If only he was such a terrible coach that his players looked at their record a month back and decided to give up entirely on trying and just started playing for themselves. In actuality, they're the ones triggering your HBP. They're interfering in your hopes and dreams of a guy losing his job because his performance isn't matching your expectations for a traditionally middling basketball program. You should demand they be fired too. Lucky for you it's a bunch of seniors😉

Enjoy the rest of your season! Or, hate it, whichever. Do what you do. 👋
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Damn you jump to wild assumptions without any basis.
Indeed, Minnesota hired Tubby, who won a Naty coaching Rick Pitino's players after Rick left for Boston. Tubby then proceeded to make Kentucky incapable of competing for a Naty with his own players and was summerily dumped to the curb by Kentucky. He then came here and led the Gophers to better records than our present coach has ever attained.

Again, what makes you think that Ben Johnson, with one of the worst win percentages in the history of Gopher coaches, should keep coaching Gopher basketball? Are you secretly wanting the Gophers to be forever irrelevant in basketball? Come on LaVelle, you know better.
 

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