Michael Carter arrested and jailed for obstructing the legal process

[MNCH]

I haven't done any real analysis here, but it seems like about 55% of the team is from Minnesota and 45% from elsewhere, but 90% of the guys who get into trouble are not the ones from Minnesota. Willie VanDeSteeg is the only native Minnesotan I can remember getting into trouble.

How Minnesota-centric of you!

 

[STPGopher]

Dude I saw what you wrote in the other thread and you have no idea what you are talking about. IT FALLS on discipline you moron. Coaches need to instill discipline in there division one athletes who are getting full rides!!!! Think about it. Making dumb decisions including personal foul penalties and countless arrests revolve around discipline.

On field penalties of the (of the procedural or off sides, false start, motion, etc.) IMO should be separated from the off the field nonsense. Usually they are caused by lack of confidence/ trying to get a jump, being too eager, or just being tired or not completely focused. I point this out, because nobody enters a game and says I think I'm gonna jump off sides.... It might be a minor difference, but there is IMO a difference.

 

[MBAGuy]

Dude I saw what you wrote in the other thread and you have no idea what you are talking about. IT FALLS on discipline you moron. Coaches need to instill discipline in there division one athletes who are getting full rides!!!! Think about it. Making dumb decisions including personal foul penalties and countless arrests revolve around discipline.

I'm sorry your ability to count is limited to the single digits. That must be very difficult for you

 

[KD6-3.7]

meh. i drank when i was underage. i almost got in some fights. i never got in trouble with the cops, and if i had i would not have resisted.

but making stupid mistakes is part of college.

the main problem is that these guys are under the microscope and they need to handle the it better.

i think about what a spectacle i would have made of myself if i was a potential star on a division I football team.

 

[Bisker82]

And then someone else said Iowa leads in arrests and has fewest penalties. So that blows up your "link". The link is that these events are all by underclassmen still only a few months into their college experience.

Ummm...I'm not trying to correlate this incident with penalties. I'm saying the link is Self Discipline; and in both cases it is relevant, so no my link is not "blown up".

 

[DarrenTheGreek]

I don't think I'd go that far. Illinois is without a doubt the more talented team, and they looked like they put it together on Saturday.

Illinois has more talent but I think SDSU is the better team. The Sagarin rankings think so too. SDSU is ranked around the 73rd best team in the country while Illinois is in the 100's.

 

[MNCH]

Ahh, nothing gets the Gopherholers out like a good ole player arrest...Good thing these incidents are happening with increasing frequency, otherwise we'd be twiddling our thumbs...

 

[Rick Mons]

How Minnesota-centric of you!

+1.

 

[MBAGuy]

I might also add, this is reason #5,327 you don't start/rely heavily upon true freshmen. Speaking as an almost-middle-aged dude, 18/19 year old guys are, by and large, absolute effing morons.

 

[Gopherprof]

Honestly I could care less if the players drink, as it's none of my business. The 21 year age for alcohol consumption is largely arbitrary and constantly broken anyway.

But seriously, learn to handle your *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#. If there is a Football 101 course, this should be it. "How to drink responsibly without making an ass of yourself and further breaking the law." The difference between what Watkins and Carter did is huge, especially when considering the broader impact it has on the image of the team.

 

[Schnoodler]

Ummm...I'm not trying to correlate this incident with penalties. I'm saying the link is Self Discipline; and in both cases it is relevant, so no my link is not "blown up".

Then I don't know what you're saying. We already know he made a bad decision.

 

[Gopherprof]

I might also add, this is reason #5,327 you don't start/rely heavily upon true freshmen. Speaking as an almost-middle-aged dude, 18/19 year old guys are, by and large, absolute effing morons.

So we should rely on almost-middle-aged men? I think that might hurt recruitment. In terms of breaking the law, I doubt there is much of a difference between 19 year old and 21 year olds, other than the fact that one can legally drink and one cannot.

 

[Haugy#33]

Speaking as an almost-middle-aged dude, 18/19 year old guys are, by and large, absolute effing morons.[/QUOTE]

This is the reason why kids of this age make such great soldiers. They think they are invincible and do can do what ever they want.

 

[Ole]

So we should rely on almost-middle-aged men? I think that might hurt recruitment. In terms of breaking the law, I doubt there is much of a difference between 19 year old and 21 year olds, other than the fact that one can legally drink and one cannot.

Big time disagree with you man, after 3-4 years in college you learn alot about yourself and how the world works. 18 compared to 21 is huge as far as maturity goes. As someone a few years out of college looking back through recent memory, I was a frickin idiot at 18-19, I also feel like I grew up at 21-22.

 

[The 12th Man]

particularly for ones close to the program.

I'm just wondering - do these kids get training on situations like this - kind of like a Football 101 - common sense? I know they get training on interviewing, but have always wondered if they get advice on things like this, Facebook updates, etc.? Or is it kind of like sex ed where they just teach abstinence. Kids will be kids, and let's face it, a lot of kids (including myself) drank underage. Although they are under the microscope, and should be very careful of image and getting caught, I get it's going to happen, I'm realistic. However, this whole resisting arrest and wrestling with officers is what really shocks me. Had his story been like Kenny Watkins - got caught, got a minor, a slap on the wrist, that's something that can easily be overlooked. I'm just wondering if they're taught these things...if you are in a bind, how to act?

Oh, and btw - please...stop fighting! Everyone knows athletes, and many will try to pick fights with you (not in this case, but in general). Take your aggressions out on the field.

The answer is yes. The program is for all incoming athletes, not just football players. Just like anything else, however, it is up to the kid to take the information, process it, and use it the right way.

 

[Gopherprof]

Big time disagree with you man, after 3-4 years in college you learn alot about yourself and how the world works. 18 compared to 21 is huge as far as maturity goes. As someone a few years out of college looking back through recent memory, I was a frickin idiot at 18-19, I also feel like I grew up at 21-22.

Ok, so this is your own personal experience. Again, I may be wrong, but I am going to venture a guess (and try to find the actual number) that the % of 19 year old kids who get arrested is not going to be much higher, if at all, than kids who are 21. That's the only number that matters. Everything else is speculative and based on personal experience, which is completely irrelevant when putting forth a broad statement like that.

 

[MBAGuy]

So we should rely on almost-middle-aged men? I think that might hurt recruitment. In terms of breaking the law, I doubt there is much of a difference between 19 year old and 21 year olds, other than the fact that one can legally drink and one cannot.

Jeebus, I expect more out of you, Gopherprof....

In terms of maturity, there's a significant difference between 18 and 21 year olds. Couple that with this being the first time most of them are away from home and their support network for the first time can lead to issues at 18 that won't be there at 21 (because, you know, they will have been away from home for two years at 21, versus zero years at 18...just want to make sure you recognize that connection).

And by the way, Gopherprof, it's "I COULDN'T care less" as in, "I could not care less." It is not, "I COULD care less." If you could care less, you probably should, if you're trying to state something doesn't affect you. I would normally not raise such an issue, but since I'm paying you with my tuition dollars, I feel like you should be held to a higher standard than the usual riff-raff.

 

[Frod0]

I just can't get over how stupid drunk he had to have been to sit there and try to fight cops. Especially since he probably is outweighed by both of them lol. And then why are they picking fights in the first place. I don't fault guys who may get into dust ups so often, but when you're the one sitting there picking the fight, what are you doing?

Who said he tried to fight a freakin . Seriously. Ever heard of self defense. Its a natural instinct and when your hammered (which he appears to have been), they are pretty much you're only way of survival and about all that functions. As for the idiots who only seem to care about how this affects the team, get over yourselves. How about thinking about the kid who just screwed up a little bit. It was Halloween and he was having fun with his friends. I am in no way condoning the underage consumption of alcohol but tell me that you didn't. I can (it'll stay that way) and I'm sure some have but practically all athletes and most everybody does drink alcohol underage and especially on a night like Halloween. His biggest mistake other than drinking was hanging out in the city. Go find some party on a farm somewhere. Seriously. Did he not think the would be out like crazy on Halloween?

 

[Schnoodler]

Night and day between 18 and 20 even. Something clicks in a kid during his junior year. I'm still waiting but I think I'm a special case.

 

[Ole]

Ok, so this is your own personal experience. Again, I may be wrong, but I am going to venture a guess (and try to find the actual number) that the % of 19 year old kids who get arrested is not going to be much higher, if at all, than kids who are 21. That's the only number that matters. Everything else is speculative and based on personal experience, which is completely irrelevant when putting forth a broad statement like that.

I put alot into my own personal experience and observing others I went to school with. Kids at 18-19 are different than 21-22, they just are. College is a social experiment for everyone, it changes you even after a few years. Getting back to the point, I hope Carter takes his suspension, learns from it, and grows up a little bit more.

 

[Schnoodler]

Maybe I'm in the minority here but the only reason I was never arrested for a myriad of things when I was at that age is luck. No other way to put it. I can't get myself to make any kind of judgement on this sort of thing because I know it was only luck that seperates my experience and theirs. Sometimes the biggest problem a kid has is bad luck.

 

[Frod0]

Night and day between 18 and 20 even. Something clicks in a kid during his junior year. I'm still waiting but I think I'm a special case.

The brain matures fully. It is science.

 

[Gopherprof]

Ok, so here's a brief statistical sample.

In the state of California in the year 2005 (which is a pretty large and reflective sample pool), there were 45,407 arrests of kids aged 18 and 19, this equals to about 22,703 for each year. Conversely, from 20-29 there were 188,959 arrests, which is about 18,896 arrests per year. This indicates that you are less likely to be arrested as you age (not surprisingly), but this also doesn't take into account the difference between 20 and 29 (which I'm assuming exists), as well as the fact that a decent % of that 18-19 age group probably would have been arrested at some point in their 20's, but were already caught.

I'll see if there are states which are more detailed than 20-29, but I don't think statistically there's a huge variance.

 

[Gopherprof]

Jeebus, I expect more out of you, Gopherprof....

In terms of maturity, there's a significant difference between 18 and 21 year olds. Couple that with this being the first time most of them are away from home and their support network for the first time can lead to issues at 18 that won't be there at 21 (because, you know, they will have been away from home for two years at 21, versus zero years at 18...just want to make sure you recognize that connection).

And by the way, Gopherprof, it's "I COULDN'T care less" as in, "I could not care less." It is not, "I COULD care less." If you could care less, you probably should, if you're trying to state something doesn't affect you. I would normally not raise such an issue, but since I'm paying you with my tuition dollars, I feel like you should be held to a higher standard than the usual riff-raff.

Yes yes..you've raised this before. I'm aware of the grammatical rules, but this is also a message board, which is generally (generally) more lax and not as subject to complete d-baggary.

Again, I'm not sure that on average there is a significant difference in arrest rates between 18 and 21 year olds (I'm not sure that there isn't either, I'm just raising a question against the complete blanket statement about levels of maturity). I think there is an assumption that this is the case, but I don't know if it is supportable. You can be as condescending as you like, that doesn't mean you are any more correct.

 

[dpodoll68]

Who said he tried to fight a freakin . Seriously. Ever heard of self defense.

You can't seriously be this stupid.

There is no such thing as "self defense" when you're engaging with a police officer.

Period.

 

[monk10]

Maybe I'm in the minority here but the only reason I was never arrested for a myriad of things when I was at that age is luck. No other way to put it. I can't get myself to make any kind of judgement on this sort of thing because I know it was only luck that seperates my experience and theirs. Sometimes the biggest problem a kid has is bad luck.

I didn't drink during football season in college, so I have every right to ride in on my high horse. However, I am suprised I am living after a New Year's Eve party in Prague in one of the coldest winters in Europe ('96 - '97).

So I think that makes me riding in on my high horse with only one foot in the stirrup getting dragged most of the way?

 

[began11]

NO EXCUSE!

You can't seriously be this stupid.

There is no such thing as "self defense" when you're engaging with a police officer.

Period.

TELL THAT TO RODNEY KING!!! Suspend him for the rest of the year. Get him in AA and Anger Management! We all drink and make mistakes as youngsters but this is just not right.

 

[Frod0]

You can't seriously be this stupid.

There is no such thing as "self defense" when you're engaging with a police officer.

Period.

So are always in the right? You need to not be such a tool. The system certainly isn't perfect and there are a fair number of corrupt out there who just want to get back at the type of guy they despised in HS.

 

[MBAGuy]

Yes yes..you've raised this before. I'm aware of the grammatical rules, but this is also a message board, which is generally (generally) more lax and not as subject to complete d-baggary.

Again, I'm not sure that on average there is a significant difference in maturity between 18 and 21 year olds (I'm not sure that there isn't either, I'm just raising a question against the complete blanket statement). I think there is an assumption that this is the case, but I don't know if it is supportable. You can be as condescending as you like, that doesn't mean you are any more correct.

So you lend no weight to being away both from one's home and one's support structure for the first time as having any role in the shenanigans of college freshmen?

There aren't likely very many stats to verify it one way or another, but it would seem intuitive to me that being away from home for the first time might lead to more instances of misbehavior and arrest than someone who has had two years to build a support network away from home.

And if you don't want people to correct your grammar, don't present yourself as a professor at the school I attend. Based on your screen name and statements you've made suggesting you're a professor, you're representing the U. Go totally anon and I'll leave you alone in this regard like I do everyone else on this board.

 

[Governor Sibley]

This is easy.

See you next year, Michael.