marcus asks if gopher athletics should address how athletes feel about police

[Pompous Elitist]

I'll post some bits from the BLM website, which reads like a childish manifesto full of vitriol. There is as much chance these people want to participate in a western liberal society as ISIS.

BLM planks:


[BLM]... It goes beyond the narrow nationalism that can be prevalent within Black communities, which merely call on Black people to love Black, live Black and buy Black, keeping straight cis Black men in the front of the movement while our sisters, queer and trans and disabled folk take up roles in the background or not at all.

On the lack of black fathers:

"We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are comfortable."

On releasing criminals into the community:

"How 2.8 million Black people are locked in cages in this country is state violence."

On blaming the state rather than deadbeat dads:

"How Black women bearing the burden of a relentless assault on our children and our families is state violence."


I don't see much about joining society, looking inward for solutions. I see tribalism. This is not good...

 

[STPGopher]

It takes a long time to change people's attitudes and fears. Training is a start in shaping the attitudes and to ratchet down the level of force needed to handle situations. Training is a way to change the system of policing. Sometimes you have to feed the medicine with a little sugar.

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Good point. However, I am sure it is hard to accept if you are right in the middle of it. I once worked with a lady that was a police officer in Bryan College Station(sp?). She was like 5'0" and like 90lbs. Anyway, It was interesting to hear her takes on things like traffic stops. One thing I will say is she stressed that it was always in her best interest to deescalate the situation right away.

 

[oleboy41]

I'll post some bits from the BLM website, which reads like a childish manifesto full of vitriol. There is as much chance these people want to participate in a western liberal society as ISIS.

BLM planks:


[BLM]... It goes beyond the narrow nationalism that can be prevalent within Black communities, which merely call on Black people to love Black, live Black and buy Black, keeping straight cis Black men in the front of the movement while our sisters, queer and trans and disabled folk take up roles in the background or not at all.

On the lack of black fathers:

"We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are comfortable."

On releasing criminals into the community:

"How 2.8 million Black people are locked in cages in this country is state violence."

On blaming the state rather than deadbeat dads:

"How Black women bearing the burden of a relentless assault on our children and our families is state violence."


I don't see much about joining society, looking inward for solutions. I see tribalism. This is not good...

The vast majority of people I know don't co-sign all of the stated goals of the supposed founders of BLM which is also why its far less of an organization than a rallying cry/statement. Remember this started essentially as a hash tag and then a few people tried to develop it into an organization but all local 'chapters' essentially operate independently and say nothing about the founders gender/family goals. It ain't the Urban league or the NAACP with any actual foundation or rules in place

 

[Taji34]

This thread should really be moved to Off-Topic, we've left Gopher Athletics almost entirely.

 

[STPGopher]

I'll post some bits from the BLM website, which reads like a childish manifesto full of vitriol. There is as much chance these people want to participate in a western liberal society as ISIS.

BLM planks:


[BLM]... It goes beyond the narrow nationalism that can be prevalent within Black communities, which merely call on Black people to love Black, live Black and buy Black, keeping straight cis Black men in the front of the movement while our sisters, queer and trans and disabled folk take up roles in the background or not at all.

On the lack of black fathers:

"We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are comfortable."

On releasing criminals into the community:

"How 2.8 million Black people are locked in cages in this country is state violence."

On blaming the state rather than deadbeat dads:

"How Black women bearing the burden of a relentless assault on our children and our families is state violence."


I don't see much about joining society, looking inward for solutions. I see tribalism. This is not good...

What happened to staying on topic or good arguments? BLM didn't pull over the driver in Falcon Heights, Nor was it the source of tweets that started this thread.

 

[bemidjigopher]

This thread should really be moved to Off
I don't know we want to hear from some of the regulars on that board

 

[Pompous Elitist]

The vast majority of people I know don't co-sign all of the stated goals of the supposed founders of BLM which is also why its far less of an organization than a rallying cry/statement. Remember this started essentially as a hash tag and then a few people tried to develop it into an organization but all local 'chapters' essentially operate independently and say nothing about the founders gender/family goals. It ain't the Urban league or the NAACP with any actual foundation or rules in place

One of the leaders is that the White House today, so the president has unwisely given them legitimacy. A different argument for a different day. I do think it is important to understand the level of propaganda out there. Immediately after the shootings in Dallas BLM was more worried about calls to stand down and calm the situation than to continue the unrest.

Listen to yourself, stereotyping police while saying the nutjobs are isolated and in no way represent the movement. Give me a break.

Grow up and become a man for your community and your family and the rest will fall into line, more often than not.

 

[STPGopher]

One of the leaders is that the White House today, so the president has unwisely given them legitimacy. A different argument for a different day. I do think it is important to understand the level of propaganda out there. Immediately after the shootings in Dallas BLM was more worried about calls to stand down and calm the situation than to continue the unrest.

Listen to yourself, stereotyping police while saying the nutjobs are isolated and in no way represent the movement. Give me a break.

Grow up and become a man for your community and your family and the rest will fall into line, more often than not.

Maybe it's time to admit you are angry with BLM and move on. Hopefully, you will come to understand that 18-23 year old players (on topic) might be troubled about someone dying during a traffic stop. Hopefully you will understand that many people from a variety of backrounds might be troubled by this as well. They might be troubled by this no matter what BLM or any other MOVEMENT says or does. Perhaps some of us take issue with just accepting / maintaining status quo when someone dies over a traffic stop.

Many posters have mentioned training. Perhaps police will be given more tools to deal with such situations. Maybe citizens that have Conceal and Carry permits will have universal training on how to act during a stop. On the perifery, maybe solders returning from combat will get more help, That would be some of the potential good that could come out of this situation.

Moving on to a different issue, you stated this:"Immediately after the shootings in Dallas BLM was more worried about calls to stand down and calm the situation than to continue the unrest". Perhaps I am misunderstanding this. " Wouldn't that be a good thing? The Dallas chapter of BLM seemed to have a "healthy" relationship with the Dallas police department? Furthermore, would it make sense to link a murderer that stated (paraphasing?) that he had issues with/ didnot like BLM? IIRC. Some participants in the march said someone(believed to be the shooter(s?) spit on them just before shots rang out. From multiple reports, it appears that the Dallas sniper was NO friend of BLM.

From the link to follow:

"During negotiations, the shooter told Dallas police "he was upset about 'Black Lives Matter.' He was upset about the recent police shootings. He was upset at white people," Brown said at the press briefing.

The suspect also said he wanted to kill people, "especially white officers," but was not affiliated with any particular group and "did this alone," Brown said."

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/07/two-...ton-sterling-philandro-castile-shootings.html

 

[oleboy41]

One of the leaders is that the White House today, so the president has unwisely given them legitimacy. A different argument for a different day. I do think it is important to understand the level of propaganda out there. Immediately after the shootings in Dallas BLM was more worried about calls to stand down and calm the situation than to continue the unrest.

Listen to yourself, stereotyping police while saying the nutjobs are isolated and in no way represent the movement. Give me a break.

Grow up and become a man for your community and your family and the rest will fall into line, more often than not.

More dumb statements by you. Yea, being a man solves all the ills of 400 years of organized racism. Funny thing is if you spewed this nonsense to the families of the players you're supposedly cheering for they'd either laugh at you or ignore you. So I'll take that route and do both

 

[STPGopher]

More dumb statements by you. Yea, being a man solves all the ills of 400 years of organized racism. Funny thing is if you spewed this nonsense to the families of the players you're supposedly cheering for they'd either laugh at you or ignore you. So I'll take that route and do both

The interesting part of this is much of the reaction comes from this. Looking no further than the Klan and the known history that some police were both Klan members and police. Most don't make the connection you've made. It is frustrating that anytime one tries to raise the point of poor policing, the smokescreens come up. Unfortunately the racist tag gets projected onto the one that exposes this history.
I also find it interesting that someone can be pulled over for having a broad nose, and anyone that takes issue with it is either a racist or some (insert derogatory term here) liberal. Yes another projection.

 

[alchemy2u]

One of the leaders is that the White House today, so the president has unwisely given them legitimacy. A different argument for a different day. I do think it is important to understand the level of propaganda out there. Immediately after the shootings in Dallas BLM was more worried about calls to stand down and calm the situation than to continue the unrest.

Listen to yourself, stereotyping police while saying the nutjobs are isolated and in no way represent the movement. Give me a break.

Grow up and become a man for your community and your family and the rest will fall into line, more often than not.

Please put down the shovel and walk away. You are digging yourself into a hole so deep that no one will give you a hand to crawl out. Your are really living up to your moniker! I guess not everyone has the "wisdom" to see the world from your planet.


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[alchemy2u]

Another interesting item about training. http://www.startribune.com/officer-in-castile-case-attended-bulletproof-warrior-training/386717431/



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[STPGopher]

Another interesting item about training. http://www.startribune.com/officer-in-castile-case-attended-bulletproof-warrior-training/386717431/



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Thanks for the post!

 

[Pompous Elitist]

More dumb statements by you. Yea, being a man solves all the ills of 400 years of organized racism. Funny thing is if you spewed this nonsense to the families of the players you're supposedly cheering for they'd either laugh at you or ignore you. So I'll take that route and do both

I can't fix you. Only you can fix you. I think many of the players would be embarrassed of you. Not all, but some. Not every black person supports BLM or your viewpoint. Are you aware of that?

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Please put down the shovel and walk away. You are digging yourself into a hole so deep that no one will give you a hand to crawl out. Your are really living up to your moniker! I guess not everyone has the "wisdom" to see the world from your planet.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

What part of my statements were incorrect? Inability to argue, calling names. This is what it has come to. Can I assume you support the Black Lives Matter manifesto? Check it out, it's an interesting viewpoint full of "wisdom".

http://blacklivesmatter.com/

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Maybe it's time to admit you are angry with BLM and move on. Hopefully, you will come to understand that 18-23 year old players (on topic) might be troubled about someone dying during a traffic stop. Hopefully you will understand that many people from a variety of backrounds might be troubled by this as well. They might be troubled by this no matter what BLM or any other MOVEMENT says or does. Perhaps some of us take issue with just accepting / maintaining status quo when someone dies over a traffic stop.

Many posters have mentioned training. Perhaps police will be given more tools to deal with such situations. Maybe citizens that have Conceal and Carry permits will have universal training on how to act during a stop. On the perifery, maybe solders returning from combat will get more help, That would be some of the potential good that could come out of this situation.

Moving on to a different issue, you stated this:"Immediately after the shootings in Dallas BLM was more worried about calls to stand down and calm the situation than to continue the unrest". Perhaps I am misunderstanding this. " Wouldn't that be a good thing? The Dallas chapter of BLM seemed to have a "healthy" relationship with the Dallas police department? Furthermore, would it make sense to link a murderer that stated (paraphasing?) that he had issues with/ didnot like BLM? IIRC. Some participants in the march said someone(believed to be the shooter(s?) spit on them just before shots rang out. From multiple reports, it appears that the Dallas sniper was NO friend of BLM.

From the link to follow:

"During negotiations, the shooter told Dallas police "he was upset about 'Black Lives Matter.' He was upset about the recent police shootings. He was upset at white people," Brown said at the press briefing.

The suspect also said he wanted to kill people, "especially white officers," but was not affiliated with any particular group and "did this alone," Brown said."

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/07/two-...ton-sterling-philandro-castile-shootings.html

It is hard to comprehend your viewpoint on this. I am at a loss for words.

As far as the players, certainly understandable to have some concern. Overblown concern, like a child worrying about nuclear war or a kidnapping or a plane crash. Most of the shootings have been justified. Obviously some have not and there have been some beatings caught on tape as well. Those individuals need to be in prison.

However, it is IRRESPONSIBLE to stereotype the police as waging war on young black men. Don't you understand that? You can't label the entire white population as racist, the police as waging war/murderers and not expect some blowback.

Becoming what you hate seems to be "ok" to you. Rise above.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

As I noted above one of the planks of the BLM platform is to decriminalize and release prisoners. In fact the BLM protesters that shut down the I35 today stated their goal is to dissolve police departments completely.

Since the Freddie Gray riots the Baltimore murder rate has skyrocketed to historic highs. The mayor is actively down-throttling police engagement. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/01/14/us/Baltimore-homicides-record.html

Since California began releasing non-violent criminals crime rates have started up again. I speak with many police officers in my profession and anecdotes abound of the high crime.

This is the future you want? Only college kids living in a bubble world of theory and slanted history could dream up a scenario like this.

 

[NoNmae]

We're all brother and sisters, we all bleed red it's just the shell that's different. Cant we just get along?

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Los Angeles violent crime up 19.9% in 2015, property crime up 10.3%. Somehow I'd be more worried about that than the LAPD if I had to live in the inner city. I sympathize with getting criminal cops off the streets (truly), but chopping off your hand to get rid of a hangnail is not the solution.

http://www.latimes.com/local/crime/la-me-crime-stats-20151230-story.html


If you're interested this details California's early release program begun in 2014. I was erroneous earlier, it does include violent felons. This is a peek into a milder form of BLMs' vision.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...899f9c-a059-11e5-a3c5-c77f2cc5a43c_story.html

 

[KD6-3.7]

In my opinion the players, like all young adults (and most adults) need to be told to, especially if carrying a weapon, keep their hands on the steering wheel, follow the directions of the officer, keep their vehicle in good working order, don't speed, don't stay out past midnight, attend a citizen's academy and perform a mock traffic stop.

That's not to mention reading up on due process, which seems to be knowledge that ao many people seem to be lacking.

 

[oleboy41]

I can't fix you. Only you can fix you. I think many of the players would be embarrassed of you. Not all, but some. Not every black person supports BLM or your viewpoint. Are you aware of that?

Blocked. Your posts are so much smarter now

 

[STPGopher]

It is hard to comprehend your viewpoint on this. I am at a loss for words.

As far as the players, certainly understandable to have some concern. Overblown concern, like a child worrying about nuclear war or a kidnapping or a plane crash. Most of the shootings have been justified. Obviously some have not and there have been some beatings caught on tape as well. Those individuals need to be in prison.

However, it is IRRESPONSIBLE to stereotype the police as waging war on young black men. Don't you understand that? You can't label the entire white population as racist, the police as waging war/murderers and not expect some blowback.

Becoming what you hate seems to be "ok" to you. Rise above.

I think you are confusing me with someone else. Anyone who knows me including police officers know I am anything but anti-police. It is just my humble opinion that bad policing does nothing for the officers that do it well nor the communities they serve. It is also my humble opinion that developing training that assists officers in obtaining better outcomes would be beneficial.

It is also my humble opinion that it is within reason to speak to players about anything that could put them at risk.

The rest I will not address because you don't know me.

Speaking of rising above, seeing you are troubled by the plethora of subjects that have spun out from a simple thread regarding a simple tweet, I will treat you to coffee in a public place of your choice. This is assuming you live in the greater Twin Cities Metro area.

Feel free to private message me if interested in this offer.


Peace!

 

[STPGopher]

We're all brother and sisters, we all bleed red it's just the shell that's different. Cant we just get along?

Yes we can. However it is going to take much effort and multiple willing parties.

 

[STPGopher]

In my opinion the players, like all young adults (and most adults) need to be told to, especially if carrying a weapon, keep their hands on the steering wheel, follow the directions of the officer, keep their vehicle in good working order, don't speed, don't stay out past midnight, attend a citizen's academy and perform a mock traffic stop.

That's not to mention reading up on due process, which seems to be knowledge that ao many people seem to be lacking.

Going off topic again, this is one of many issues that is coming to light. I would be interested in finding out if Conceal and carry training is universal in content, or if content varies with the trainer.

Also would like to know about outcomes based on viewpoints going into a stop.

I may be naive, but I'd like to think that good can come out of trajedy.

 

[alchemy2u]

What part of my statements were incorrect? Inability to argue, calling names. This is what it has come to. Can I assume you support the Black Lives Matter manifesto? Check it out, it's an interesting viewpoint full of "wisdom".

http://blacklivesmatter.com/

Anyone can assemble statistics to support their opinion.

You are the one that is pigeon holing people into some sort of preconceived biases. You try to come across as such an educated know it all, but may want to at least once to try and see an argument through another persons eyes. Don't bother responding if it is going to be just as condescending as your other posts.


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[STPGopher]

Anyone can assemble statistics to support their opinion.

You are the one that is pigeon holing people into some sort of preconceived biases. You try to come across as such an educated know it all, but may want to at least once to try and see an argument through another persons eyes. Don't bother responding if it is going to be just as condescending as your other posts.


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The one thing I really don't understand is why he chose to be upset about the BLM protesters in Dallas trying to get people to stand down during the sniper attack? Weird. If the Dallas Police were taking selfies with protesters. Seems like both parties were okay with each other.
Not even sure how the Marcus tweet became a raging rant about BLM. Many people from all walks of life were at minimum questioning what happened. Not just that organization.

 

[Spoofin]

Yeah - real confusing how this became a BLM thread. Just puzzling.


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[Pompous Elitist]

Blocked. Your posts are so much smarter now

We were just beginning to have good intercourse. Very disappointing. Never has it crossed my mind to block someone. Why would you do that?

 

[zman]

We were just beginning to have good intercourse.

Get a room.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Speaking of rising above, seeing you are troubled by the plethora of subjects that have spun out from a simple thread regarding a simple tweet, I will treat you to coffee in a public place of your choice. This is assuming you live in the greater Twin Cities Metro area.

Feel free to private message me if interested in this offer.


Peace!

I live in California, and frankly I don't like you much. Nobody enjoys being called a racist for posting conflicting opinions to your worldview. That's a non-starter.