marcus asks if gopher athletics should address how athletes feel about police

[Pompous Elitist]

Yeah - real confusing how this became a BLM thread. Just puzzling.


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In a nutshell, anyone that is white is a racist, or anyone else that opines the possibility that police might not be waging open war on young black men , and/or the possibility that personal responsibility or lack of it > racism in determining outcomes of police stops (eg how to not become shot) is also a racist. Since BLM has become central to the national discussion about this topic it seems important to point out their agenda, which is never-ending unrest forever and ever, amen.

Does that about cover it for you?

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Getting back to the original tweet, maybe tell the guys there were 63 million documented police encounters last year and perhaps a handful of unjustified incidents (we'll never know exactly how many unless cameras become mandatory which they ought to). Don't do meth, don't approach the cops, obey directions, keep hands clear and odds of survival increase.

Th odds are probably higher of incurring CTE, drowning, electrocution, meningitis, lymphoma, HIV than getting jacked by a nervous cop if you keep your cool. Perspective, it's lacking.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

The one thing I really don't understand is why he chose to be upset about the BLM protesters in Dallas trying to get people to stand down during the sniper attack? Weird. If the Dallas Police were taking selfies with protesters. Seems like both parties were okay with each other.
Not even sure how the Marcus tweet became a raging rant about BLM. Many people from all walks of life were at minimum questioning what happened. Not just that organization.

What?

 

[Spoofin]

In a nutshell, anyone that is white is a racist, or anyone else that opines the possibility that police might not be waging open war on young black men , and/or the possibility that personal responsibility or lack of it > racism in determining outcomes of police stops (eg how to not become shot) is also a racist. Since BLM has become central to the national discussion about this topic it seems important to point out their agenda, which is never-ending unrest forever and ever, amen.

Does that about cover it for you?

I wasn't poking at you on this one PE. Just the opposite.


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[Old Goph]

Getting back to the original tweet, maybe tell the guys there were 63 million documented police encounters last year and perhaps a handful of unjustified incidents (we'll never know exactly how many unless cameras become mandatory which they ought to). Don't do meth, don't approach the cops, obey directions, keep hands clear and odds of survival increase.

Th odds are probably higher of incurring CTE, drowning, electrocution, meningitis, lymphoma, HIV than getting jacked by a nervous cop if you keep your cool. Perspective, it's lacking.

Well it certainly sounds simple when you say it. Don't do meth and obey instructions. What about the guy in Falcon Heights with the 57 traffic stops over the years ( none that resulted in any significant charges and most dismissed). Should you perhaps add to your stay alive instructions? Maybe take the bus or sign up for enhanced driver education? I know you and I would have to live several more life times to ever approach that volume of police encounters, yet this is not all that unusual for many black drivers. Or do you dismiss out of hand that there may be something to the claim by many citizens that they can be pulled over for the offense of driving while black?

 

[Spoofin]

Well it certainly sounds simple when you say it. Don't do meth and obey instructions. What about the guy in Falcon Heights with the 57 traffic stops over the years ( none that resulted in any significant charges and most dismissed). Should you perhaps add to your stay alive instructions? Maybe take the bus or sign up for enhanced driver education? I know you and I would have to live several more life times to ever approach that volume of police encounters, yet this is not all that unusual for many black drivers. Or do you dismiss out of hand that there may be something to the claim by many citizens that they can be pulled over for the offense of driving while black?

Sounds like you have done research on those traffic stops. Please provide some stats on the % that were not legitimate and were due to profiling.


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[Old Goph]

Sounds like you have done research on those traffic stops. Please provide some stats on the % that were not legitimate and were due to profiling.


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Odd post. I directed a question to PE. Feel free to answer for yourself. My question has absolutely nothing to do with statistics. It calls for giving an opinion. I realize you may find this rather novel but go ahead and give it a try.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Well it certainly sounds simple when you say it. Don't do meth and obey instructions. What about the guy in Falcon Heights with the 57 traffic stops over the years ( none that resulted in any significant charges and most dismissed). Should you perhaps add to your stay alive instructions? Maybe take the bus or sign up for enhanced driver education? I know you and I would have to live several more life times to ever approach that volume of police encounters, yet this is not all that unusual for many black drivers. Or do you dismiss out of hand that there may be something to the claim by many citizens that they can be pulled over for the offense of driving while black?

Apparently he wasn't licensed to drive. Seatbelt issues, etc etc.

I had dozens of run-ins with the police as a dumb kid. It's not rare. Raise your hand if you've never been harassed by the police. Now that I'm "all grown up" I understand why they do what they do.

Miraculously, the harassed drivers survived these millions of encounters. How can that be if there is open war?

Words matter.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Well it certainly sounds simple when you say it. Don't do meth and obey instructions. What about the guy in Falcon Heights with the 57 traffic stops over the years ( none that resulted in any significant charges and most dismissed). Should you perhaps add to your stay alive instructions? Maybe take the bus or sign up for enhanced driver education? I know you and I would have to live several more life times to ever approach that volume of police encounters, yet this is not all that unusual for many black drivers. Or do you dismiss out of hand that there may be something to the claim by many citizens that they can be pulled over for the offense of driving while black?

I think people are judged by their appearance and behavior, as is human nature. Some people, whites, blacks, Asians, Hispanics choose to dress, talk, behave, and drive vehicles that scream "look at me!" In ways that are consistent with the criminal population. Some people are terrible drivers. Since blacks commit a much higher rate of crime per capita they will get more scrutiny by the police and there are more police in high crime areas. Some people, blacks, whites, Asians, etc are truly racist in the traditional sense and probably do harass certain groups regardless of behavior. That is wrong

Behavior profiling is part and parcel of law enforcement. If any of the above are cruising my neighborhood I will also take notice.

 

[Spoofin]

Odd post. I directed a question to PE. Feel free to answer for yourself. My question has absolutely nothing to do with statistics. It calls for giving an opinion. I realize you may find this rather novel but go ahead and give it a try.

It's simple. You implied a large volume of traffic stops proved profiling. I suggest there is a chance someone could have a large volume of traffic stops for legitimate reasons.


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[STPGopher]

What?

I asked for your point to be clarified in a previous post. You did not do so.

 

[STPGopher]

]I live in California, and frankly I don't like you much. Nobody enjoys being called a racist for posting conflicting opinions to your worldview. That's a non-starter.

[/B]

Well you have been exposed. Name one place in this or any thread where I called you a racist. I have raised the same basic points throughout the thread.

1. That I agreed with the tweet.

2. That citizens should have the right to question how "traffic" stops result in the death of a citizen/ bad policing. Expanding on that point, my hope that is that some good would come out of this situation.

BTW I do travel to California on occassion. I have relatives that live there. With that said, the offer is open ended. You can hold onto your anger, etc. It will only harm you.

 

[Old Goph]

I think people are judged by their appearance and behavior, as is human nature. Some people, whites, blacks, Asians, Hispanics choose to dress, talk, behave, and drive vehicles that scream "look at me!" In ways that are consistent with the criminal population. Some people are terrible drivers. Since blacks commit a much higher rate of crime per capita they will get more scrutiny by the police and there are more police in high crime areas. Some people, blacks, whites, Asians, etc are truly racist in the traditional sense and probably do harass certain groups regardless of behavior. That is wrong

Behavior profiling is part and parcel of law enforcement. If any of the above are cruising my neighborhood I will also take notice.

The latest example of profiling I heard was the black Republican senator from South Carolina talking about being stopped 7 times last year. Not sure if his vehicle was screaming look at me. It would stand to reason that the more encounters you have, the more chance for something to go wrong. Also, while you're very accepting of profiling I can see that members of a profiled group might be a bit less accepting

 

[zman]

You can hold onto your anger, etc. It will only harm you.

This comment is priceless. I think it is others in this thread that are holding on to anger.

 

[STPGopher]

This comment is priceless. I think it is others in this thread that are holding on to anger.

If you are refering to me(in the end, I can only speak for myself), I am attempting to do what I was taught to do. That is to be quick to reconcile, and slow to take offence. I also have taken a pledge to do so most every sunday for years. I don't have a problem with Pompous Elitist the person(obviously I don't know him). I just do not agree with some of his view points.

 

[zman]

If you are refering to me(in the end, I can only speak for myself), I am attempting to do what I was taught to do. That is to be quick to reconsile, and slow to take offence. I also have taken a pledge to do so most every sunday for years. I don't have a problem with Pompous Elitist the person(obviously I don't know him). I just do not agree with some of his view points.

Sorry, no, not you.

 

[STPGopher]

The latest example of profiling I heard was the black Republican senator from South Carolina talking about being stopped 7 times last year. Not sure if his vehicle was screaming look at me. It would stand to reason that the more encounters you have, the more chance for something to go wrong. Also, while you're very accepting of profiling I can see that members of a profiled group might be a bit less accepting

At the risk of opening wounds, this is what is troubling many. Too many people can relate to what this senator experienced. When I was in my late 20's not only was I called down from my own deck at gun point because I was suspected of robbing my own house, I was stopped on average 2 to 4 times a month for approximately a year. This was in my own neighborhood. Never given a ticket for those stops. One time(earlier in my adult life) I was told by an officer that he was stopping me because the only people that were out that time of night were: Doctors, nurses, ambulance drivers, newspaper delivery guys , and criminals. I was then asked which one I was. My response of being a freight handler at UPS was not well received. I was viewed as being uppity for giving an honest response. The first time this happened the one officer followed me to UPS. I was actually happy about that part, because my supervisor was at the door pointing at his watch. I pointed at the police car and he said okay" but don't let it happen again. Like I could promise that one. -lol

These experiences troubled me because I was trusted to deliver Multi-million dollar checks to the Federal Reserve for one of my jobs(bonded twice). Uncle Sam, was sore at me because they wanted me to enlist in their Nuke Power program via the Navy(long story, relevent because my background checks for that program included the NSA ) but to a select few officers, I was a "suspect" a "thug". Rough period, especially when I used to feed police at a restaurant. I fondly remember those officers. They stuck up for me when an officer that wanted to arrest me because I was a "suspect" Luck for me, they intervened and said "He just left work. We ate at his job."

I can relate to the players tweets, because I was them. I wasn't as gifted as them obviously, I only played at the J.C. Level, but... All I was guilty of was working my butt off and trying to do the right thing. I could tell more stories, but I won't burden you with them. All I can say is thank you family for saying "if I brought the police to the door you'd beat me then give me to the police. Anything less than a clean record and who knows what would have happened.

Getting back to the point I was responding to, bogus stops are what fueled the late Johnny Cockran to take his most famous case. Too many people from all/ various backgrounds can relate to the few bad apples, and the poorly trained. Unfortunately that is how we are wired as humans. Negative experiences stick with us.

For clarity. I personnally am not attacking police. I know of too many good ones. I have also had many positive experiences with Law Enforcement officers. I just don't appreciate bad/ negative policing.

 

[STPGopher]

Sorry, no, not you.

No problem! That is why I wanted clarification.

 

[Word]

It's simple. You implied a large volume of traffic stops proved profiling. I suggest there is a chance someone could have a large volume of traffic stops for legitimate reasons.

According to this article (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...he-driving-life-and-death-of-philando-castile) many of the stops are due to driving with a suspended license and/or no insurance (or proof of insurance). What I am assuming is police run the plates (as they do often) and find a "hit" for someone without a license or insurance. He gets pulled over, gets another ticket, etc. Hard to say though if his plates got run more often because of his race though. I know personally I wouldn't drive without a license or insurance.

 

[Spoofin]

Look - no one is pro bad/negative policing. No one should deny it exists. No one should deny minorities are profiled in many situations. No one should deny that is wrong. Where many have an issue is the "guilty, even if proven innocent" mentality some take every time there is a high profile tragedy like the recent one that started this thread. Hell, even our own Governor made assumptions publicly on the case that were wrong and don't help the divide but will be taken as fact by many who heard him say it.


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[STPGopher]

According to this article (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...he-driving-life-and-death-of-philando-castile) many of the stops are due to driving with a suspended license and/or no insurance (or proof of insurance). What I am assuming is police run the plates (as they do often) and find a "hit" for someone without a license or insurance. He gets pulled over, gets another ticket, etc. Hard to say though if his plates got run more often because of his race though. I know personally I wouldn't drive without a license or insurance.

Plausible. Gonna be tough to argue away pulling him over for having a broad nose though. If it was right after the robbery, that makes sense. Several days later(assuming July 2nd was the day of the robbery. Unsubstantiated source) ? Did they think he was returning to the scene? Guess we'll have to wait to see.

 

[zman]

At the risk of opening wounds, this is what is troubling many. Too many people can relate to what this senator experienced. When I was in my late 20's not only was I called down from my own deck at gun point because I was suspected of robbing my own house, I was stopped on average 2 to 4 times a month for approximately a year. This was in my own neighborhood. Never given a ticket for those stops. One time(earlier in my adult life) I was told by an officer that he was stopping me because the only people that were out that time of night were: Doctors, nurses, ambulance drivers, newspaper delivery guys , and criminals. I was then asked which one I was. My response of being a freight handler at UPS was not well received. I was viewed as being uppity for giving an honest response. The first time this happened the one officer followed me to UPS. I was actually happy about that part, because my supervisor was at the door pointing at his watch. I pointed at the police car and he said okay" but don't let it happen again. Like I could promise that one. -lol

These experiences troubled me because I was trusted to deliver Multi-million dollar checks to the Federal Reserve for one of my jobs(bonded twice). Uncle Sam, was sore at me because they wanted me to enlist in their Nuke Power program via the Navy(long story, relevent because my background checks for that program included the NSA ) but to a select few officers, I was a "suspect" a "thug". Rough period, especially when I used to feed police at a restaurant. I fondly remember those officers. They stuck up for me when an officer that wanted to arrest me because I was a "suspect" Luck for me, they intervened and said "He just left work. We ate at his job."

I can relate to the players tweets, because I was them. I wasn't as gifted as them obviously, I only played at the J.C. Level, but... All I was guilty of was working my butt off and trying to do the right thing. I could tell more stories, but I won't burden you with them. All I can say is thank you family for saying "if I brought the police to the door you'd beat me then give me to the police. Anything less than a clean record and who knows what would have happened.

Getting back to the point I was responding to, bogus stops are what fueled the late Johnny Cockran to take his most famous case. Too many people from all/ various backgrounds can relate to the few bad apples, and the poorly trained. Unfortunately that is how we are wired as humans. Negative experiences stick with us.

For clarity. I personnally am not attacking police. I know of too many good ones. I have also had many positive experiences with Law Enforcement officers. I just don't appreciate bad/ negative policing.

Very well articulated.

 

[STPGopher]

Look - no one is pro bad/negative policing. No one should deny it exists. No one should deny minorities are profiled in many situations. No one should deny that is wrong. Where many have an issue is the "guilty, even if proven innocent" mentality some take every time there is a high profile tragedy like the recent one that started this thread. Hell, even our own Governor made assumptions publicly on the case that were wrong and don't help the divide but will be taken as fact by many who heard him say it.


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I do understand and appreciate your points. What I will say is that sometimes it takes a tragedy to fix issues. Was the governor perfect in his speech? Perhaps not. What I am thankful for is that he can influence lasting change that is good for all. Regarding the the lady who streamed to Facebook? If she had not, nobody would have known her/ their story. Film crews showing protesters being hosed down by water cannons comes to mind. Without that, the rest of the country may have never known. They would have assumed the police were in the right.

Some changes that might help?:

Body Cams(IMHO Should be studied/ thought out first).

Two Officers per car(funding an issue?)

End private training without proper review.

Restore more Community policing(more beat cops that know the community they serve).

That's just a start.

 

[alchemy2u]

Sounds like you have done research on those traffic stops. Please provide some stats on the % that were not legitimate and were due to profiling.


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Follow along, already posted earlier. The numbers seem to jump all over the place but the earlier TV reports had him cited/tickets in the 70's with 40-50 thrown out.

This is all a moot point. If you can't understand how this could happen then you are not going to believe it anyway.


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[alchemy2u]

At the risk of opening wounds, this is what is troubling many. Too many people can relate to what this senator experienced. When I was in my late 20's not only was I called down from my own deck at gun point because I was suspected of robbing my own house, I was stopped on average 2 to 4 times a month for approximately a year. This was in my own neighborhood. Never given a ticket for those stops. One time(earlier in my adult life) I was told by an officer that he was stopping me because the only people that were out that time of night were: Doctors, nurses, ambulance drivers, newspaper delivery guys , and criminals. I was then asked which one I was. My response of being a freight handler at UPS was not well received. I was viewed as being uppity for giving an honest response. The first time this happened the one officer followed me to UPS. I was actually happy about that part, because my supervisor was at the door pointing at his watch. I pointed at the police car and he said okay" but don't let it happen again. Like I could promise that one. -lol

These experiences troubled me because I was trusted to deliver Multi-million dollar checks to the Federal Reserve for one of my jobs(bonded twice). Uncle Sam, was sore at me because they wanted me to enlist in their Nuke Power program via the Navy(long story, relevent because my background checks for that program included the NSA ) but to a select few officers, I was a "suspect" a "thug". Rough period, especially when I used to feed police at a restaurant. I fondly remember those officers. They stuck up for me when an officer that wanted to arrest me because I was a "suspect" Luck for me, they intervened and said "He just left work. We ate at his job."

I can relate to the players tweets, because I was them. I wasn't as gifted as them obviously, I only played at the J.C. Level, but... All I was guilty of was working my butt off and trying to do the right thing. I could tell more stories, but I won't burden you with them. All I can say is thank you family for saying "if I brought the police to the door you'd beat me then give me to the police. Anything less than a clean record and who knows what would have happened.

Getting back to the point I was responding to, bogus stops are what fueled the late Johnny Cockran to take his most famous case. Too many people from all/ various backgrounds can relate to the few bad apples, and the poorly trained. Unfortunately that is how we are wired as humans. Negative experiences stick with us.

For clarity. I personnally am not attacking police. I know of too many good ones. I have also had many positive experiences with Law Enforcement officers. I just don't appreciate bad/ negative policing.

Thank you for sharing that with us.

Some people are so closed minded that they can not understand that the world isn't based just upon their own life experiences.



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[STPGopher]

Thank you for sharing that with us.

Some people are so closed minded that they can not understand that the world isn't based just upon their own life experiences.



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Ha! Our provincial Minnesota mind tells on us... I can say that because I was born in Minnesota.

 

[STPGopher]

Follow along, already posted earlier. The numbers seem to jump all over the place but the earlier TV reports had him cited/tickets in the 70's with 40-50 thrown out.

This is all a moot point. If you can't understand how this could happen then you are not going to believe it anyway.


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I heard figures in that range as well. I am going to remove myself from things directly related to Mr. Castile. I just found out over lunch that I know a relative of his. Not sure I will not have bias toward his case. All I can say is the relative is a hardworking nice guy. Well liked. Sounds like Mr. Castile had the same traits.

 

[STPGopher]

Kind of ties into some of the issues raised in this thread from both sides.
Yes it is FOX News, but...

 

[Spoofin]

Some people are so closed minded that they can not understand that the world isn't based just upon their own life experiences.



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We don't hold that against you.


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[KD6-3.7]

Follow along, already posted earlier. The numbers seem to jump all over the place but the earlier TV reports had him cited/tickets in the 70's with 40-50 thrown out.

This is all a moot point. If you can't understand how this could happen then you are not going to believe it anyway.


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Have you heard of an automated license plate reader? It is a device that goes on a cop car that reads the plate of al the cars around it and checks for issues. If someone is driving while revoked or has warrants, it is not uncommon for those people to rack up to 10-15 actives, which means that person has been pulled over for driving under restraint (suspended, denied or revoked license). They are classified as habitual traffic offenders and we see a lot of them here in northern Colorado. The vast majority of them are white. That, along with driving a car that is not in working order and generally being a bad motorist will rack up the traffic contacts white or black.

Edit: sorry about the typos and stuff. I don't usually post on my phone.