marcus asks if gopher athletics should address how athletes feel about police

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Bob_Loblaw said:
I would hope a trained police force would have a better eye for this sort of thing than the average joe on a message board.

As far as a right to protest ending when it infringes on the right to free movement. . . where did you get that from? There are plenty of protests that muck up the movement for the rest of the population.
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They are trained to defend themselves. Failing to show hands or reaching for something against orders will get you shot, and rightfully so. This is not difficult. For Gods sake, puit yourself in the officers shoes. Did you watch the video? 99% chance these shootings were justified.

I "got it" from the law. Permits are required so detours can be arranged. The only reason they aren't cracking down is to calm the waters. Agitating the general population isn't going to bring sympathy. These people just want to see the world burn.
 

zman said:
What you actually said was "and is being pointed in a threatening way". It is flat out STUPID to wait for the gun to be pointed before taking action. If someone pulls a gun in that situation you shoot them, plain and simple. It's not a case of "drop your gun".
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No, Zman, they are the quickest guns in the west...I guess. Never has so much rancor been spilled over criminals.
 

The moral of the story is: be respectful, keep your hands visible, no sudden movements. Pass on to the team.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
The moral of the story is: be respectful, keep your hands visible, no sudden movements. Pass on to the team.
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you're handle speaks to your thought process. Guessing most Gopher athletes would gladly have you root for the Badgers since you have so little respect for their humanity as black men.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
No, Zman, they are the quickest guns in the west...I guess. Never has so much rancor been spilled over criminals.
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Ever had a speeding ticket? Parking ticket? If so, it appears that you are a criminal as well.
 


I have their best interest in mind. Do you?

Can you at least acknowledge there might be a two sides to these stories? Or is that too much to ask? Closed mindedness is not just a conservative issue, clearly. Racism is everywhere, it's a human characteristic. Now what?
 

zman said:
What you actually said was "and is being pointed in a threatening way". It is flat out STUPID to wait for the gun to be pointed before taking action. If someone pulls a gun in that situation you shoot them, plain and simple. It's not a case of "drop your gun".
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Shoot first, ask questions later? The info we currently have is no weapon was visible. You are assuming a gun was shown, which is only your assumption. No current information shows a gun was pulled. So what is your argument? With the info we currently have, the shooting was not justified. Plain and simple.
 

STPGopher said:
Ever had a speeding ticket? Parking ticket? If so, it appears that you are a criminal as well.
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I didn't disobey the officers or try to steal their gun, or reach into my pockets. This isn't difficult. It really isn't. You're projecting other problems onto this.
 

oleboy41 said:
you're handle speaks to your thought process. Guessing most Gopher athletes would gladly have you root for the Badgers since you have so little respect for their humanity as black men.
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+1 Sad, just sad.
 



DLguy said:
Shoot first, ask questions later? The info we currently have is no weapon was visible. You are assuming a gun was shown, which is only your assumption. No current information shows a gun was pulled. So what is your argument? With the info we currently have, the shooting was not justified. Plain and simple.
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Reaching for a gun is an act of violence. The officers don't know what he is reaching for. Just listen and be reasonable. Easy.
 


DLguy said:
Shoot first, ask questions later? The info we currently have is no weapon was visible. You are assuming a gun was shown, which is only your assumption. No current information shows a gun was pulled. So what is your argument? With the info we currently have, the shooting was not justified. Plain and simple.
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We don't know what happened. Neither of us. My point was if there was a gun, not saying there was, it is STUPID to wait to have it pointed at you. So, yes, if a gun was involved, shoot first. You don't wait to be shot at.

The info we currently have is based on one side of the story. Wait for the other side to have their say as well.
 

DLguy said:
First, I never said the officer can't have his weapon drawn, I am saying they shouldn't fire unless there is a real actual threat. Guessing someone might be reaching for a weapon is not an excuse to shoot. This may not be the case here, but the only information we currently have is that no weapon was actually visible. Unless you want to make other assumptions.

And Marcus responsible for any violence is beyond absurd. He asked a question on whether the coaches should talk to their athletes. Which would be a responsible thing to do. Do you blame video games for violence too?
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Someone reaching for a weapon is a reason to shoot. Why is he reaching for a weapon if he isn't intending to use it?

The weapon was visible. The media said it wasn't without verifying any information. Just like the media saying he was shot for an equipment violation which again was false. Are you saying that all the misinformation put out by the press didn't cause the protests/riots in the Cities? Funny but the Dallas Police Dept thinks there is a correlation with the timing of the shootings in their city. Was the shooter in Dallas going to lash out at another time? Probably....Did all the media coverage encourage him to act sooner then later? World wide press coverage.....Killing white Police Officers.....perfect time to commit murder.....

Did the media verify any of the information it aired/published? The answer is no. It was the media wrongfully blaming the police for this incident that led to gopher players questioning the police. This guy in Falcon Heights wasn't shot because he was black with a tail light out. This is what the media was saying. So yes, in my opinion, the media is partially to blame.

The Officers were justified in firing their weapons and I can't wait to see the media spin this.
 



Pompous Elitist said:
I didn't disobey the officers or try to steal their gun, or reach into my pockets. This isn't difficult. It really isn't. You're projecting other problems onto this.
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Really, you are the first to spout off that people need to wait till the facts come out, then you freely assume that person that was murdered did not comply. You have NO idea what he did or did not do. IIRC you cannot get a conceal and carry permit if you have a felony. You are labeling a person with minor tickets as a criminal that deserved what he got. I am sorry, but I have a problem with someone being shot over not acting perfectly during a traffic stop.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I have their best interest in mind. Do you?

Can you at least acknowledge there might be a two sides to these stories? Or is that too much to ask? Closed mindedness is not just a conservative issue, clearly. Racism is everywhere, it's a human characteristic. Now what?
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How ironic. You might do the same. Just as believable the cop panicked. Your "racism is everywhere" is quite glib and pretty stupid if you haven't actually had to experience it on a consistent basis. I'm white and really haven't other than being subjected to it in the service during the 60's for a short while. I've read enough history and biography to know it most definitely would be much different if I wasn't white. Love how you law and order guys ignore all the other basic rights and freedoms when they're denied to others.
 

Runext07 said:
Someone reaching for a weapon is a reason to shoot. Why is he reaching for a weapon if he isn't intending to use it?

The weapon was visible. The media said it wasn't without verifying any information. Just like the media saying he was shot for an equipment violation which again was false. Are you saying that all the misinformation put out by the press didn't cause the protests/riots in the Cities? Funny but the Dallas Police Dept thinks there is a correlation with the timing of the shootings in their city. Was the shooter in Dallas going to lash out at another time? Probably....Did all the media coverage encourage him to act sooner then later? World wide press coverage.....Killing white Police Officers.....perfect time to commit murder.....

Did the media verify any of the information it aired/published? The answer is no. It was the media wrongfully blaming the police for this incident that led to gopher players questioning the police. This guy in Falcon Heights wasn't shot because he was black with a tail light out. This is what the media was saying. So yes, in my opinion, the media is partially to blame.

The Officers were justified in firing their weapons and I can't wait to see the media spin this.
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Link?
 


Link?

He was murdered for not acting perfectly during a traffic stop? Link other then black lives matter website?

The link will be coming out for everyone in a couple of months.....
 



I don't pretend to do anything but sympathize with what cops have to deal with on a daily basis (much respect) but my general instincts tell me that maybe a less-lethal form of action would have been warranted in this situation. I mean, by all accounts, the deceased claimed he had a gun and was reaching for the ID that the officer asked him to - now, we're dealing with life and death so I understand the officer's gut reaction to protect himself - but I feel he could have used his tazer or pepper spray. Both would have stopped the gentleman if he meant harm, and if the officer was mistaken his actions wouldn't be fatal. I don't know - I have friends that are cops so I don't really know what to say, but it sure looks like someone died here that didn't have/deserve to.

I could say that this gentleman would probably be alive today if he wasn't carrying a weapon, but that would probably get me attacked from both the right AND the left. Although I haven't heard too many 2nd amendment-types rallying to this guy's defense - probably doesn't fit their 'profile.'
 

GopherHomer said:
Although I haven't heard too many 2nd amendment-types rallying to this guy's defense - probably doesn't fit their 'profile.'
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I'm not sure what there is to "rally to". It sounds like he 100% had the right to own a gun. Whether or not he had a valid concealed carry permit might be up for debate. The issue is the interaction between the gentleman and the police officer.

If you are going to carry you have to understand how it might be received by the police if you are stopped and they don't know your intentions. They can't crawl inside his brain.
 

Runext07 said:
Link?

He was murdered for not acting perfectly during a traffic stop? Link other then black lives matter website?

The link will be coming out for everyone in a couple of months.....
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Reaching...I am taking to task the notion that someone has to be perfectly still to prevent being shot.

Moving on to the point regarding blaming the deaths of the Police Officers that were slain in Dallas. I wonder if the Dallas Police, or any other department for that matter are fans of AR-15's being readlily available?
 

Runext07 said:
Someone reaching for a weapon is a reason to shoot. Why is he reaching for a weapon if he isn't intending to use it? The weapon was visible. The media said it wasn't without verifying any information. Just like the media saying he was shot for an equipment violation which again was false. Are you saying that all the misinformation put out by the press didn't cause the protests/riots in the Cities? Funny but the Dallas Police Dept thinks there is a correlation with the timing of the shootings in their city. Was the shooter in Dallas going to lash out at another time? Probably....Did all the media coverage encourage him to act sooner then later? World wide press coverage.....Killing white Police Officers.....perfect time to commit murder..... Did the media verify any of the information it aired/published? The answer is no. It was the media wrongfully blaming the police for this incident that led to gopher players questioning the police. This guy in Falcon Heights wasn't shot because he was black with a tail light out. This is what the media was saying. So yes, in my opinion, the media is partially to blame. The Officers were justified in firing their weapons and I can't wait to see the media spin this.
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He reached for the gun and intended to shoot? Wow, you better contact the investigators and let them know, since this is likely new information to them. Many previous incidents that have made national news were very likely justified. These two most recent ones don't appear to be from the information we currently have.
 

DLguy said:
He reached for the gun and intended to shoot? Wow, you better contact the investigators and let them know, since this is likely new information to them. Many previous incidents that have made national news were very likely justified. These two most recent ones don't appear to be from the information we currently have.
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I still can't get how a guy who was highly regarded in his work place, was known to be very compassionate toward fellow human beings, had no felonies, but had been stopped numerous times for petty driving/ parking goes to reaching for his gun to kill a cop? Why would he have done all of this with his girlfriend and a four year old child in the car? At this point it doesn't add up.
 

STPGopher said:
I still can't get how a guy who was highly regarded in his work place, was known to be very compassionate toward fellow human beings, had no felonies, but had been stopped numerous times for petty driving/ parking goes to reaching for his gun to kill a cop? Why would he have done all of this with his girlfriend and a four year old child in the car? At this point it doesn't add up.
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Wild speculation - perhaps the police officer saw the gun, thought he was going for that when in fact he wasn't, and overreacted. Who knows. What I keep coming back to is why an apparently respected cop would just shoot a black man for the hell of it. I think it's logical to conclude that he felt threatened, whether that threat was real or not. To me that doesn't justify the "cop just shot another black man because he was black" crap.
 

oleboy41 said:
you're handle speaks to your thought process. Guessing most Gopher athletes would gladly have you root for the Badgers since you have so little respect for their humanity as black men.
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Sorry Oleboy, but your response is part of the problem here. Disagree with PE view point if you like, but he spoke to the man's actions and not his race.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

zman said:
Wild speculation - perhaps the police officer saw the gun, thought he was going for that when in fact he wasn't, and overreacted. Who knows. What I keep coming back to is why an apparently respected cop would just shoot a black man for the hell of it. I think it's logical to conclude that he felt threatened, whether that threat was real or not. To me that doesn't justify the "cop just shot another black man because he was black" crap.
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Wild Speculation? "cop just shot another black man because he was black" crap.? All interesting.... in a not worth addressing kind of way.

The part about why would an apparently respected cop shoot someone he pulled over for what we are lead to believe is a busted taillight is what "all" of us want to know. I believe most of us understand that the cop may have made a horrible mistake. Still needs to be thoroughly investigated.
 

STPGopher said:
Wild Speculation? "cop just shot another black man because he was black" crap.? All interesting.... in a not worth addressing kind of way.

The part about why would an apparently respected cop shoot someone he pulled over for what we are lead to believe is a busted taillight is what "all" of us want to know. I believe most of us understand that the cop may have made a horrible mistake. Still needs to be thoroughly investigated.
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Choose not to address it if you are unable. Your call. But I think that is a pretty good paraphrase of the initial public stance of the victims family before any details of the shooting came to light.

The part your second paragraph is missing is that the officers involved claim that the victim was pulled over because of a belief that the gentlemen might have been a robbery suspect. That is probably why the police officer was hyper-sensitive, assuming he was. It wasn't just because of a broken tail light.
 

zman said:
Choose not to address it if you are unable. Your call. But I think that is a pretty good paraphrase of the initial public stance of the victims family before any details of the shooting came to light.

The part your second paragraph is missing is that the officers involved claim that the victim was pulled over because of a belief that the gentlemen might have been a robbery suspect. That is probably why the police officer was hyper-sensitive, assuming he was. It wasn't just because of a broken tail light.
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What is crap is discounting people questioning why this particular stop ended in death. That is your call.

I'll just leave this here for you:

From the linked article: "But in 2001, the Legislature asked for a racial profiling study and it fell to Kearney, then at the Institute on Race & Poverty at the University of Minnesota Law School, to conduct it. His study, using information supplied voluntarily by 65 law enforcement jurisdictions in the state, found a strong likelihood that racial and ethnic bias played a role in traffic stop policies and practices. Overall, officers stopped minority drivers at greater rates than whites and searched them at greater rates, but found contraband in those searches at lower rates than whites."


http://www.twincities.com/2016/07/0...d-52-times-by-police-was-is-racial-profiling/
 

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