Losers ,Tubby has to go

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Blackhammer said:
I would be very skeptical if Hollins had an offer from Memphis and Walker from U Conn.I like them as players but other than getting Devoe Joseph I don't see Tubby winning any recruiting battles over top twenty-five programs.
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Did you ever think these players liked Tubby or thought they would be going to a better situation here? Not everyone is like MN fans who think their program is the worst thing in the world.
 

bemidjigopher said:
Mo Walker was recruited by PITT, UCONN, Rutgers and Marquette Dre Hollins by Stanford Harvard, Auburn and Ole Miss Austin Hollins, Arkansas, Memphis and Oregan State. Elliott was recruited by Stanfordm Creighton and ASU
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Lucky.
 

Blackhammer said:
I would be very skeptical if Hollins had an offer from Memphis and Walker from U Conn.I like them as players but other than getting Devoe Joseph I don't see Tubby winning any recruiting battles over top twenty-five programs.
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Tubby took over a trainwreck. We hadn't out-recruited a top-25 team in 10 years. 1st 2 years were throw aways. Year 3 perhaps we should have done more? Year 4 we were a big swinging di*k, then Nolen got hurt. Year 5 we're a young team, developing...NCAA birth is not a realistic expectation.
 

Blackhammer said:
I would be very skeptical if Hollins had an offer from Memphis and Walker from U Conn.I like them as players but other than getting Devoe Joseph I don't see Tubby winning any recruiting battles over top twenty-five programs.
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Hollins had an offer from Memphis.
Big Mo had offers from UConn, Pitt, Virginia.
Royce White had offers from Illinois, MSU, Wisconsin.
Colton Iverson had an offer from Florida.

All according to Rivals.
 

GophersInIowa said:
A guy like Brad Stevens is not going to go from Butler to a place like MN if the facilities are pretty much the same. His next job is going to be in a better situation than us. Otherwise, it could be seen as almost a lateral move. He'll have other offers at places who have better resources.

It is what it is. A practice facility is not going to ensure success by any means. But stuff like that does make a difference for some recruits and we are definitely falling behind most other programs.
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I didn't mean we could get Brad Stevens- I was just using him as an example of a coach and program that can win without the newest facilities. The point I was trying to make is that we keep using what we lack as an excuse and other programs have less and do more. If you tell everyone you can't win because of whatever reason you probably won't win. From Henry Ford- " If you think you can do it, or you think you can't do it, You are right"
 


It is a Big Ten job. Coaches at that level are ego driven. A decent AD would have no problem finding a successful mid major coach who would be getting a hefty pay raise.
BTW, if Tubby would have been more successful, the practice facility would probably be under construction. He has been his own worst enemy for that project.
 

beavergopher said:
It is a Big Ten job. Coaches at that level are ego driven. A decent AD would have no problem finding a successful mid major coach who would be getting a hefty pay raise.
BTW, if Tubby would have been more successful, the practice facility would probably be under construction. He has been his own worst enemy for that project.
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well said
 

beavergopher said:
It is a Big Ten job. Coaches at that level are ego driven. A decent AD would have no problem finding a successful mid major coach who would be getting a hefty pay raise.
BTW, if Tubby would have been more successful, the practice facility would probably be under construction. He has been his own worst enemy for that project.
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Bull$hit.
 





there is not a huge talent gap with the gophers. you did lose you best post scorer, defender and rebounder in mbakwe. He's an all Big Ten Player. Problem now is you're young. Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin, Michigan are stacked with mostly 3 star players. Illinois probably has the most stars on paper and you're a Welch free throw away from being 2-0 against them this season. You're going to go 6-2 the next 8 games. losing to Ohio State and Michigan State. 2 wins against Neb, 1 @ Northwestern, 2 against Wisconsin and 1 against IU. You'll make the tournament and this thread will seem silly.
 

notagopherfan said:
there is not a huge talent gap with the gophers. you did lose you best post scorer, defender and rebounder in mbakwe. He's an all Big Ten Player. Problem now is you're young. Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin, Michigan are stacked with mostly 3 star players. Illinois probably has the most stars on paper and you're a Welch free throw away from being 2-0 against them this season. You're going to go 6-2 the next 8 games. losing to Ohio State and Michigan State. 2 wins against Neb, 1 @ Northwestern, 2 against Wisconsin and 1 against IU. You'll make the tournament and this thread will seem silly.
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Whew! That's good to hear...no worries now.
 





notagopherfan said:
there is not a huge talent gap with the gophers. you did lose you best post scorer, defender and rebounder in mbakwe. He's an all Big Ten Player. Problem now is you're young. Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin, Michigan are stacked with mostly 3 star players. Illinois probably has the most stars on paper and you're a Welch free throw away from being 2-0 against them this season. You're going to go 6-2 the next 8 games. losing to Ohio State and Michigan State. 2 wins against Neb, 1 @ Northwestern, 2 against Wisconsin and 1 against IU. You'll make the tournament and this thread will seem silly.
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I wouldn't include Illinois in this group. They have 7 RSCI top 100 recruits (granted 4 of them are freshman.) I think this is further proof that Weber is just a mediocre coach. His teams do play defense but ever notice how so many of the Big Ten 46-42 final scores over the recent years involve Illinois?

I wish I could take your prediction to the bank, but did you watch the last game against Iowa? Iowa was terrible! And yet the Gophers did a fantastic job of playing even worse when the game was on the line. If that team shows up, that effort is displayed again in some more games, the Gophers will be left praying the NIT calls them up at the end of the season. That's why it's hard to get one's hopes up.
 

GophersInIowa said:
It's hard to have conversations with you because there is so much wrong in your posts. The bolded part is made up and false.

Has he been a disappointment? I think everyone agrees yes.
Are there some that dislike him so much that they'll use every argument in the book against him even if it's false? Yes

It's almost comical how much some dislike him and want to see him fail.
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Bold part made up and false?

Did Tubby try and get players like John Wall, Anthony Davis, The Zeller brother from N Carolina and Indiana
The player of the year from Ohio St. ( can't think of his name right now ) Already gone pro.

I never hear of Tubby being in the mix for those type of players.
What I do hear is many a good offensive player say they think other schools are a better offensive fit.

By all means I don't want to take away from you admiration of Tubby.

If what he has done pleases you and has met your expectations of what Gopher ball should
be then by all means, enjoy him and all he is doing.

Nor do I care to argue and trade barbs with you.

I am just of the opinion that for a coach of his supposed caliber I find it hard to
believe that by the fifth year Minn. still has 0 NCAA wins, 0 NIT wins an overall losing
record in the Big Ten, not ranked and now is in a position of not making the NCAA again
in spite of it being expanded to 68 teams.

Just my opinion

But maybe it will be better next year
 

notagopherfan said:
nice sarcasm but you can't disprove my point
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You are absolutely right, I cannot. That's why I resort to sarcasm. Let's see how the season plays out and I am hoping your forecast is accurate, 'cause I shore do like when dem Gophers win!
 

nuggett said:
Bold part made up and false?

Did Tubby try and get players like John Wall, Anthony Davis, The Zeller brother from N Carolina and Indiana
The player of the year from Ohio St. ( can't think of his name right now ) Already gone pro.

I never hear of Tubby being in the mix for those type of players.
What I do hear is many a good offensive player say they think other schools are a better offensive fit.

By all means I don't want to take away from you admiration of Tubby.

If what he has done pleases you and has met your expectations of what Gopher ball should
be then by all means, enjoy him and all he is doing.

Nor do I care to argue and trade barbs with you.

I am just of the opinion that for a coach of his supposed caliber I find it hard to
believe that by the fifth year Minn. still has 0 NCAA wins, 0 NIT wins an overall losing
record in the Big Ten, not ranked and now is in a position of not making the NCAA again
in spite of it being expanded to 68 teams.
Just my opinion

But maybe it will be better next year
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You're not going to get a John Wall or Anthony Davis at Minnesota unless they live in MN, nobody else in the Big Ten consistently get's top 10 players except for Ohio State and Michigan State. What OSU doesn't pull out of Ohio, Michigan State does. Ohio State has signed like 7 top 100 players from the state of Ohio since 2007. I don't think the state of Minnesota has even had 7 total since 2007.. I'm talking top 100 players, not D1 players. I think Historically though most of the best players in the state of Minnesota have gone to the U.

Anyway Tubby went after those types of players at UK. Keith Bogans, Marvin Stone, Jason Parker, Tayshaun Prince Rajon Rondo.. just to name a few. It's just not realistic to get top 10 players with no practice facility. Kids at UK, Duke, North Carolina can go to the practice facility any time of the day or night, 365 days a year, you guys don't even have one.
 

bemidjigopher said:
nuggett unfortunatly for you, you have no right to play the vindication card and here's why how did Tubby's replacement Billy Gillipse do? He took UK to places they haven't seen an ages the NIT, you don't get to feel vindicated when you replace a good coach with an imcompetent alcoholic.
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That's a flawed premise. making a mistake in hiring a bad replacement, doesn't mean that getting rid of a failing coach was a wrong decision. When Gillispie took the Kentucky job, he was able to sign Patrick Patterson who became a freshman All American. Tubby was not going to get him, and was staring a likely losing season in the face. And that would have been worse than an NIT season,
don't you think?
 

GophersInIowa said:
A guy like Brad Stevens is not going to go from Butler to a place like MN if the facilities are pretty much the same. His next job is going to be in a better situation than us. Otherwise, it could be seen as almost a lateral move. He'll have other offers at places who have better resources.

It is what it is. A practice facility is not going to ensure success by any means. But stuff like that does make a difference for some recruits and we are definitely falling behind most other programs.
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true, and established name coach, even one at a low profile school like Butler isn't going to take this job. What's needed is a young up and comer who's making some noise, but hasn't risen to the top of everyone's list.
 

Whathavewedone said:
That's a flawed premise. making a mistake in hring a bas replacement, doesn't mean that gettign rid of a failing coach was a wrong decision. When Gillispie tool the Kentucky job, he was able to sign Patrick patterson who became a freshman
All American. Tubby was not going to get him, and was staring a likely losing
season in the face. And that would have been worse than an NIT season, no?
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uh.. wrong again.. Tubby did all the leg work for Patrick Patterson and was on him early in the recruiting process. In fact, he almost went to Florida after Tubby left for Minnesota. BTW Gillispie got to the NCAA tournament in his first year at UK because he had 3 really good guards in Joe Crawford, Ramel Bradley, and Jodie Meeks and a guy Tubby recruited by the name of Patrick Patterson. So leaving 2 Mcdonalds All Americans isn't a bad team. Plus a top 75 foward in Perry Stevenson, a top 50 PG in Derrick Jasper. He also would've gotten Jai Lucas had he not left, and Randolph Morris would stayed another year. Plus he had commits from Draymond Green, Kenny Frease. He would have been fine had he stayed at UK but I don't want to get into the logistics of all that.
 

notagopherfan said:
uh.. wrong again.. Tubby did all the leg work for Patrick Patterson and was on him early in the recruiting process. In fact, he almost went to Florida after Tubby left for Minnesota. BTW Gillispie got to the NCAA tournament in his first year at UK because he had 3 really good guards in Joe Crawford, Ramel Bradley, and Jodie Meeks and a guy Tubby recruited by the name of Patrick Patterson. So leaving 2 Mcdonalds All Americans isn't a bad team. Plus a top 75 foward in Perry Stevenson, a top 50 PG in Derrick Jasper. He also would've gotten Jai Lucas had he not left, and Randolph Morris would stayed another year. Plus he had commits from Draymond Green, Kenny Frease. He would have been fine had he stayed at UK but I don't want to get into the logistics of all that.
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Uh NOT wrong again. Tubby tried hard to recruit Patterson, but Patterson never would commit. Never did until after Tubby left to come here.
 


some of you believe that if we recruit the top talent across the country they will sign no matter what. its crazy! we are a middle of the road program with a facility only minnesota fans love! tubby recruits kids we can get and in a perfect world we would have devoe, cobbs, royce, and a healthy mbakwe. things went sour and we are rebuilding. im tired of hearing this is year 5 and look at the results...what if everyone was happy and those players mentioned are in the lineup? i believe if things were perfect we would be in the hunt for the big ten title. the facts are we are starting over. i think we are the youngest team in the big ten and i like our kids. andre, joe, austin, rodney, and mo/ee as a starting 5 gets me excited. if we make the tourney great, but as soon as mbakwe went down none of us thought we would have 5 wins in conference. none of us thought we would be on the bubble for the tourney, hell, most of us thought we wouldnt make the nit without trevor. recruiting isnt the problem, tubby isnt the problem, we ran into some terrible luck and we start over. im good with what tubby is doing right now. quit bitching
 

lakesgopher said:
some of you believe that if we recruit the top talent across the country they will sign no matter what. its crazy! we are a middle of the road program with a facility only minnesota fans love! tubby recruits kids we can get and in a perfect world we would have devoe, cobbs, royce, and a healthy mbakwe. things went sour and we are rebuilding. im tired of hearing this is year 5 and look at the results...what if everyone was happy and those players mentioned are in the lineup? i believe if things were perfect we would be in the hunt for the big ten title. the facts are we are starting over. i think we are the youngest team in the big ten and i like our kids. andre, joe, austin, rodney, and mo/ee as a starting 5 gets me excited. if we make the tourney great, but as soon as mbakwe went down none of us thought we would have 5 wins in conference. none of us thought we would be on the bubble for the tourney, hell, most of us thought we wouldnt make the nit without trevor. recruiting isnt the problem, tubby isnt the problem, we ran into some terrible luck and we start over. im good with what tubby is doing right now. quit bitching
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Right on the money.

However, Cobbs and Devoe I think you can make an argument that it is on Tubby. Neither liked to play defense and wanted to be more open like in the Pac12. Not Tubby's "fault", but his coaching philosiphy certainly contributed. (Also, Devoe's drug problem didn't help)

There is no possible way you can blame Tubby for the two HUGE losses of Royce and Trevor, IMO.
 


scher215 said:
Right on the money.

However, Cobbs and Devoe I think you can make an argument that it is on Tubby. Neither liked to play defense and wanted to be more open like in the Pac12. Not Tubby's "fault", but his coaching philosiphy certainly contributed. (Also, Devoe's drug problem didn't help)

There is no possible way you can blame Tubby for the two HUGE losses of Royce and Trevor, IMO.
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every report i have read was cobbs was extremely homesick and the devoe thing imo had more to do with tubby's offense and devoe's offense...they clashed, a lot. i dont believe devoe had a "drug problem" i think that was a rumor put together by a handful of posters pissed off cause he wanted out. a lot of college students smoke pot, doesnt mean they have drug problems
 

lakesgopher said:
every report i have read was cobbs was extremely homesick and the devoe thing imo had more to do with tubby's offense and devoe's offense...they clashed, a lot. i dont believe devoe had a "drug problem" i think that was a rumor put together by a handful of posters pissed off cause he wanted out. a lot of college students smoke pot, doesnt mean they have drug problems
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Cobbs being homesick was another reason, however he also didn't like the offense. Sometimes that happens, with any coach. Even coach K has guys who don't like/want to play for him.

I just call it a drug problem because it is easier, but yes it was smoking pot and I can't imagine Tubby would put up with that. I'd also heard (not from Gopherhole) that he was selling pot as well, not sure how much truth there is to that, although I do trust the source. Number one reason though was the offense, and every coach has that problem not just Tubby.

Royce, Trevor, and Al were the big ones. One guy left on his own after his own doing, one was held out a year then tore his ACL, one failed classes and then broke his foot. None of those, IMO, were Tubby's fault at all.
 

scher215 said:
Royce, Trevor, and Al were the big ones. One guy left on his own after his own doing, one was held out a year then tore his ACL, one failed classes and then broke his foot. None of those, IMO, were Tubby's fault at all.
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If we are discussing factors relevant to our current condition, Al graduated already so he wouldn't be helping the current team regardless of injuries or grades. I think the Gopher hole knows my thoughts on Royce, so I won't go there. As for Trevor, I think he would obviously be a huge help in games where we are getting beat up down low, but some good things have happened in his absence. Rodney is playing well as a power forward instead of a weak small forward (I am still scratching my head to figure out why Trevor had to get hurt for Tubby to realize that Rodney would be a better pf than sf). I honestly would have liked to have seen us using RS3, Trevor, and Rodney in a three man rotation at the two big spots. Had Trevor stayed healthy and Rodney not moved permanently to sf, it would have been more crowded in the smaller positions and we might not have seen the playing time and development out of Coleman and Dre that we have.

I obviously don't think the team is better without Trevor, but there have been some positive developments which we might not have seen had Trevor stayed healthy. I guess my overall point is that we cannot assess the impact of losing Trevor strictly in terms of thinking we would have everyone playing like they are now plus Trevor.
 


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