Losers ,Tubby has to go

[Costa Rican Gopher]

I think you miss my point

Does Tubby even TRY to get better players?
Of course the very best are going to go to the best.
That doesn't mean you start off recruiting by looking in the middle of the pack and hope to get some role players.
A coach of Tubby's caliber should aim very high.
A coach of Tubby's caliber should be able to do better than he is.
A coach of Tubby's caliber should not be in year 5 with the fan's "hoping and begging to get enough wins to
"make the NCAA"

I remember when Tubby came to Minn. FOT ( not a fan of his ) but did have some expectations that I felt
were reasonable. By this time, Tubby should have Minn. near the top of the Big Ten and in the hunt for a Big Ten title.
"Making the NCAA Tourn. should be a given and fans should at least be able to expect getting to the Sweet 16 now and then.

The fact is Tubby has low expectations. The fans do not demand better and that is why at year 5 the fans are "hoping"
to make the NCAA Tourn.

Accept mediocrity and mediocrity is all you will get.

Harrison Barnes = UNC
Draymond Green = MSU
Corey Joseph = Texas
etc...

If Tubby goes after Corey Joseph & misses out, he ends up with Maverick & Tubby haters say he's wasting time with Joseph. If Tubby goes after Justin Cobbs the Tubby haters say he should be going after players like Joseph. If Tubby lands Dre Hollins Tubby haters say he's a bust a month into his Freshman season. If Tubby discovered the cure for cancer, the Tubby haters would find a way to discredit it because they HATE TUBBY! HATE, HATE, HATEY-HATE-HATE. It's not based on logic or reasonable expectations it's based on blind hate & a desire to see him fail.

 

[scher215]

We had about as much chance of getting Harrison Barnes as the Wolves had of getting Lebron.Tim HardawayJr was a better prospect than anyone we have signed with the exception of Royce White.

Tim Hardway Jr. Scout: 3-Star #36 Rivals: 3-Star NR ESPN: 4-Star - 93

Austin Hollins Scout: 3-Star #43 Rivals: 3-Star NR ESPN: 3-Star - 89
Andre Hollins Scout: 4-Star #26 Rivals: 3-Star #110 ESPN: 4-Star - 93
Maurice Walker Scout: 3-Star #31 Rivals: 3-Star #123 ESPN: 4-Star - 92

Wanna try again?

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

No shot. Royce hasn't had an issue since he's been at Iowa St & there's no way the Tubby haters would have ever let it die. Hell Royce screwed up at the U about 5 times in 6 months & people still blame Tubby for letting him go to ISU.

I don't blame him for letting him go. I blame him for putting a hand grenade like Royce in our locker room in the first place. If you play with fire, sometimes you get burned. The fact that Royce has stopped getting in trouble after realizing that his problems were about to cost him a chance a basketball career is nice to hear, but we are still worse off as a result of Royce coming to the U.

 

[CrocShots]

I don't blame him for letting him go. I blame him for putting a hand grenade like Royce in our locker room in the first place. If you play with fire, sometimes you get burned. The fact that Royce has stopped getting in trouble after realizing that his problems were about to cost him a chance a basketball career is nice to hear, but we are still worse off as a result of Royce coming to the U.

Holy hell... This might take the cake for dumbest post of all time. Really? REALLY? A High profile, In-state recruit SHOULD NOT have been recruited here? Find traffic and run into it, seriously.

 

[Blackhammer]

Tim Hardway Jr. Scout: 3-Star #36 Rivals: 3-Star NR ESPN: 4-Star - 93

Austin Hollins Scout: 3-Star #43 Rivals: 3-Star NR ESPN: 3-Star - 89
Andre Hollins Scout: 4-Star #26 Rivals: 3-Star #110 ESPN: 4-Star - 93
Maurice Walker Scout: 3-Star #31 Rivals: 3-Star #123 ESPN: 4-Star - 92

Wanna try again?

I don't have to try again.Hardaway is way better than all the guys you listed.Who did we beat out for the guys you listed?

 

[GophersInIowa]

I think you miss my point

Does Tubby even TRY to get better players?
Of course the very best are going to go to the best.
That doesn't mean you start off recruiting by looking in the middle of the pack and hope to get some role players.
A coach of Tubby's caliber should aim very high.
A coach of Tubby's caliber should be able to do better than he is.
A coach of Tubby's caliber should not be in year 5 with the fan's "hoping and begging to get enough wins to
"make the NCAA"

I remember when Tubby came to Minn. FOT ( not a fan of his ) but did have some expectations that I felt
were reasonable. By this time, Tubby should have Minn. near the top of the Big Ten and in the hunt for a Big Ten title.
"Making the NCAA Tourn. should be a given and fans should at least be able to expect getting to the Sweet 16 now and then.

The fact is Tubby has low expectations. The fans do not demand better and that is why at year 5 the fans are "hoping"
to make the NCAA Tourn.

Accept mediocrity and mediocrity is all you will get.

It's hard to have conversations with you because there is so much wrong in your posts. The bolded part is made up and false.

Has he been a disappointment? I think everyone agrees yes.
Are there some that dislike him so much that they'll use every argument in the book against him even if it's false? Yes

It's almost comical how much some dislike him and want to see him fail.

 

[Parski1]

What has to go.....this stupid thread!

 

[LongLiveMilesTarver]

Mbakwe, Royce White, Devoe Joseph in the starting lineup would make Tubby a much better coach this year.
Bad luck on Mbakwe, Maturi 100% to blame fo White being at Iowa State and Joseph had issues. Non of them not playing for the Gophers is Tubby's fault.
With them starting this year we would be fighting for a BIG title. JMO
That said we should not lose twice to Iowa even with the current roster.

He is the coach. HE is responsible.

 

[LongLiveMilesTarver]

In 21 (not 22) seasons, he has 7 conference championships and 8 other finishes somewhere between 2nd and 4th. He has 9 seasons out of 21 in which he finished somewhere between sub-.500 and within 2 games over .500. You said "pretty much every year". Nine out of 21 seasons is in no way "pretty much every year". He has finished with 20 or less wins exactly 5 times in 20 seasons. Five times out of 20 is in no way "pretty much every year". But, please...continue with your inaccurate Tubby-bashing.

20-14 records are not impressive. 20 wins now isn't what it was 20 years ago. The new bench mark should be 25.

 

[EG#9]

Harrison Barnes = UNC
Draymond Green = MSU
Corey Joseph = Texas
etc...

If Tubby goes after Corey Joseph & misses out, he ends up with Maverick & Tubby haters say he's wasting time with Joseph. If Tubby goes after Justin Cobbs the Tubby haters say he should be going after players like Joseph. If Tubby lands Dre Hollins Tubby haters say he's a bust a month into his Freshman season. If Tubby discovered the cure for cancer, the Tubby haters would find a way to discredit it because they HATE TUBBY! HATE, HATE, HATEY-HATE-HATE. It's not based on logic or reasonable expectations it's based on blind hate & a desire to see him fail.

I don't think Tubby needed Maverick once he missed out on Justin Cobbs. I think taking 4 guys that Spring (Mo, Oto, Maverick, Chip) may turn out to be Tubby's undoing. He went back to the Spring well the next year and took two JUCO's (Julian, Andre) with mixed results. I think it's reasonable to expect Tubby to make better scholarship decisions than he has, especially when it comes to taking kids in the Spring.

I don't hate Tubby, I want to see him succeed, but it's not reasonable to look at what he's accomplished through 4 2/3 years and come to the conclusion that he's going to start winning games at an impressive level.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

I don't blame him for letting him go. I blame him for putting a hand grenade like Royce in our locker room in the first place. If you play with fire, sometimes you get burned. The fact that Royce has stopped getting in trouble after realizing that his problems were about to cost him a chance a basketball career is nice to hear, but we are still worse off as a result of Royce coming to the U.

Not sure why I feel like I'm disagreeing with you, when I agree with you? I don't blame Tubby for recruiting Royce. I don't blame Maturi for suspending Royce. I don't blame Royce for transferring out. Everyone did what they thought was best.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Holy hell... This might take the cake for dumbest post of all time. Really? REALLY? A High profile, In-state recruit SHOULD NOT have been recruited here? Find traffic and run into it, seriously.

I'm honored to have earned the title dumbest post of all time. I know I faced some stiff competition on these boards, so coming out on top is pretty exciting.

What was the upside of us getting Royce White? He damaged our reputation and never scored a point for the Gophs. I don't think it is entirely unreasonable to look back and say, "oops, we would have been better off if we never got him in the first place."

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Not sure why I feel like I'm disagreeing with you, when I agree with you? I don't blame Tubby for recruiting Royce. I don't blame Maturi for suspending Royce. I don't blame Royce for transferring out. Everyone did what they thought was best.

Sorry, I misread that before the edit. I don't disagree everyone did what they thought was best. I am just saying that I think Royce was a high-risk, high-reward type recruit (weighing his talent against his personal problems), and if Tubby would have gotten credit for the high-reward had it panned out, it only seems fair that if he doesn't he shoulder some of the blame for taking on that type of risk.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I'm honored to have earned the title dumbest post of all time. I know I faced some stiff competition on these boards, so coming out on top is pretty exciting.

What was the upside of us getting Royce White? He damaged our reputation and never scored a point for the Gophs. I don't think it is entirely unreasonable to look back and say, "oops, we would have been better off if we never got him in the first place."

Pretty easy to say that after the fact. It was a risk, absolutely. But he was a special player in our own backyard who wanted to play for the Gophers. I'd take that risk every time.

 

[zambam]

Sorry, I misread that before the edit. I don't disagree everyone did what they thought was best. I am just saying that I think Royce was a high-risk, high-reward type recruit (weighing his talent against his personal problems), and if Tubby would have gotten credit for the high-reward had it panned out, it only seems fair that if he doesn't he shoulder some of the blame for taking on that type of risk.

If you're blaming Tubby for bringing him in you have to say that you wouldn't have been mad if Tubby hadn't brought him in. You can't say that Tubby shouldn't have brought him in and then say Tubby had to bring him in.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

If you're blaming Tubby for bringing him in you have to say that you wouldn't have been mad if Tubby hadn't brought him in. You can't say that Tubby shouldn't have brought him in and then say Tubby had to bring him in.

I didn't say Tubby had to bring him in. I am saying that I don't doubt that Tubby thought bringing him in was the best move. I think I feel like players with attitude problems do more damage to players around them than other people think they do. If Tubby would have said "I recognize his huge upside, but I think his attitude would make him a liability to this program", a lot of people would have been upset, but I would have been ok with it. It would be like if my financial adviser invested all of my money in a risky stock. If it paid off, I won't have a problem, but if he loses my money, I am going to question why he took the risk.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I didn't say Tubby had to bring him in. I am saying that I don't doubt that Tubby thought bringing him in was the best move. I think I feel like players with attitude problems do more damage to players around them than other people think they do. If Tubby would have said "I recognize his huge upside, but I think his attitude would make him a liability to this program", a lot of people would have been upset, but I would have been ok with it. It would be like if my financial adviser invested all of my money in a risky stock. If it paid off, I won't have a problem, but if he loses my money, I am going to question why he took the risk.

Again, its easy to say that now because that's not how it went down. If White was not offered by MN, went on to somewhere else, never got into trouble, and became a superstar, everyone would have been pissed and calling for Tubby's head for that reason alone.

It would be different if it was almost a certainty that White was going to get in trouble once he got to the U. But I don't think that was the case.

 

[dpodoll68]

20-14 records are not impressive. 20 wins now isn't what it was 20 years ago. The new bench mark should be 25.

It depends on what kind of schedule you use to get to that 20-14 record. I never stated that it is or isn't impressive. I simply stated that what he typed was factually incorrect.

 

[BTen]

The problem is not with the type of players Tubby has recruited. It is with a very high percentage of those players tranferring out. That plus a few injuries that any team can have and.....here we are. Are the transfers Tubby's fault? I don't know.

If you have 4 & 5 star recruits for one or two years you can get away with it. If you have 2 & 3 star recruits for one or two years you are in trouble. Don't get me wrong, I am not a Tubby hater. My main problem has been with the guy that is done June 30th.

 

[beavergopher]

The fact that people are discussing this is proof that this hire has been a failure. Almost everyone on this board were predicting Big Ten titles and prolonged NCAA runs. We have not progressed past the hope for next year stage. Not a good enough ROI for 2+ million a year five years in to his tenure. You can come up with all the reasons/excuses that you wish. He has not gotten it done on the court. Wins enough to keeps the wolves at bay, and then they play like they did at Iowa.

 

[BTen]

The fact that people are discussing this is proof that this hire has been a failure. Almost everyone on this board were predicting Big Ten titles and prolonged NCAA runs. We have not progressed past the hope for next year stage. Not a good enough ROI for 2+ million a year five years in to his tenure. You can come up with all the reasons/excuses that you wish. He has not gotten it done on the court. Wins enough to keeps the wolves at bay, and then they play like they did at Iowa.

I believe that there is a bigger picture here. If Tubby leaves before serious commitment is made in regards to a practice facility, good luck on the quality of the next coach that will consider this job. If you think that the program is in dire straights now, go ahead and get rid of coach Smith before a practice facility commitment and see what level this program is at 6 yrs. from now.

 

[bemidjigopher]

nuggett unfortunatly for you, you have no right to play the vindication card and here's why how did Tubby's replacement Billy Gillipse do? He took UK to places they haven't seen an ages the NIT, you don't get to feel vindicated when you replace a good coach with an imcompetent alcoholic.

 

[bemidjigopher]

Mo Walker was recruited by PITT, UCONN, Rutgers and Marquette Dre Hollins by Stanford Harvard, Auburn and Ole Miss Austin Hollins, Arkansas, Memphis and Oregan State. Elliott was recruited by Stanfordm Creighton and ASU

 

[Minnesconsin fan]

I believe that there is a bigger picture here. If Tubby leaves before serious commitment is made in regards to a practice facility, good luck on the quality of the next coach that will consider this job. If you think that the program is in dire straights now, go ahead and get rid of coach Smith before a practice facility commitment and see what level this program is at 6 yrs. from now.

you could still get a good coach without a practice facility. You might not get a big "name" coach but there are plenty of good coaches with less facilities. (See Brad Stevens, Butler as the biggest example). A big name coach may not come without a facility but the right up and comer will have enough ego to think they can get it built or win without it--- and that is the guy we want. Now as to how we identify him?............

 

[scher215]

Nm

 

[GophersInIowa]

you could still get a good coach without a practice facility. You might not get a big "name" coach but there are plenty of good coaches with less facilities. (See Brad Stevens, Butler as the biggest example). A big name coach may not come without a facility but the right up and comer will have enough ego to think they can get it built or win without it--- and that is the guy we want. Now as to how we identify him?............

A guy like Brad Stevens is not going to go from Butler to a place like MN if the facilities are pretty much the same. His next job is going to be in a better situation than us. Otherwise, it could be seen as almost a lateral move. He'll have other offers at places who have better resources.

It is what it is. A practice facility is not going to ensure success by any means. But stuff like that does make a difference for some recruits and we are definitely falling behind most other programs.

 

[Blackhammer]

Mo Walker was recruited by PITT, UCONN, Rutgers and Marquette Dre Hollins by Stanford Harvard, Auburn and Ole Miss Austin Hollins, Arkansas, Memphis and Oregan State. Elliott was recruited by Stanfordm Creighton and ASU

I would be very skeptical if Hollins had an offer from Memphis and Walker from U Conn.I like them as players but other than getting Devoe Joseph I don't see Tubby winning any recruiting battles over top twenty-five programs.

 

[scher215]

I would be very skeptical if Hollins had an offer from Memphis and Walker from U Conn.I like them as players but other than getting Devoe Joseph I don't see Tubby winning any recruiting battles over top twenty-five programs.

It was widely believed Mo was a lock for Pitt before he committed to MN.

 

[BTen]

you could still get a good coach without a practice facility. You might not get a big "name" coach but there are plenty of good coaches with less facilities. (See Brad Stevens, Butler as the biggest example). A big name coach may not come without a facility but the right up and comer will have enough ego to think they can get it built or win without it--- and that is the guy we want. Now as to how we identify him?............

I'll help you identify him. His name is Dan Monson. Short memory?

 

[beavergopher]

Mo Walker was recruited by PITT, UCONN, Rutgers and Marquette Dre Hollins by Stanford Harvard, Auburn and Ole Miss Austin Hollins, Arkansas, Memphis and Oregan State. Elliott was recruited by Stanfordm Creighton and ASU

So what you are saying is that it's not the talent, it's the coaching!