Losers ,Tubby has to go

[Whathavewedone]

Yes and you know this from years of obsessing over Kentucky basketball, I'm sure.

Keep equating rational observation with obsession over kentucky, and the Gophs
can have another 5 years of pitiful basketball.

Just out of curiosity, how long IS long enough to make an evaluation? Ten years?
20? 25? It's much, MUCH harder to build a football program, yet it's pretty much
consensus opinion that 4 years is a fair evaluation period for whether or not a football coach can get the job done most anywhere in the nation.

 

[dpodoll68]

Keep equating rational observation with obsession over kentucky, and the Gophs
can have another 5 years of pitiful basketball.

Pitiful? Pitiful? Overreact much?

 

[zambam]

Gotta love that Kentucky fans are telling us what we should do with our basketball program.

 

[Gopherocious]

Gotta love that Kentucky fans are telling us what we should do with our basketball program.

Instead, they should be worrying whether or not their Final 4 with that slimebad coach will be vacated like all of his other stops.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

When you recruit players, you recruit men not just basketball players. That includes their personalities and how they fit into team chemistry. Royce White was a headcase coming out of high school, and Tubby we be getting all of the credit if he had managed to get Royce to walk the straight and narrow here, so he also deserves at least a portion of the blame for putting that kind of parasite in our program (though it is fair to say that Maturi deserves some of the blame for how it was handled). With Devoe, Tubby interviewed him and coached him until he left. No one knows exactly what happened, but its Tubby's job to manage that relationship. When players depart as frequently as they have here, either the coach is picking bad eggs or poorly managing them once they are here. As for Trevor, injuries are unfortunate but they happen in sports, and if you are going to empty the cupboard then don't be surprised when there's nothing in it.

Can you imagine if Tubby'd come in here as the new coach & not recruited Royce?

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

This is a throw away season. Anyone living & dying by each game, or dreaming of a tourney run will be sadly disappointed. This season is about developing the young players, fitting into roles, learning how to win, etc. That means there will be some lumps. Freshmen will have great games, followed by games where they do nothing. Young players will choke while trying to make winning shots. Young teams lose close games on the road. It's all part of the process. I'm sad it's year 5 & we're rebuilding after a year when we should have gone to the Elite-8, but instead blew a tire & ended up in the ditch. I'll give Tubby two more seasons to do some real damage with this young nucleus because it's the smart & logical thing to do. What's the alternative? Fire Tubby, hire some up & comer, cross fingers, lose 1/2 the young nucleus, recruit new players, start over?

 

[scher215]

This is a throw away season. Anyone living & dying by each game, or dreaming of a tourney run will be sadly disappointed. This season is about developing the young players, fitting into roles, learning how to win, etc. That means there will be some lumps. Freshmen will have great games, followed by games where they do nothing. Young players will choke while trying to make winning shots. Young teams lose close games on the road. It's all part of the process. I'm sad it's year 5 & we're rebuilding after a year when we should have gone to the Elite-8, but instead blew a tire & ended up in the ditch. I'll give Tubby two more seasons to do some real damage with this young nucleus because it's the smart & logical thing to do. What's the alternative? Fire Tubby, hire some up & comer, cross fingers, lose 1/2 the young nucleus, recruit new players, start over?

While I am a little more optimistic than you about this season, I think. You are right on the money. It is unfortunate how last season ended, but tubby had us right there. Find me a different coach who would beat UNC, WVU and have the Gophers 15th in the nation. They had size, guard play, depth, shooting, it was a perfectly built team, that was built over 3-4 years. Now again we have a strong young team that will only get better. They'll play together these next few years and gain chemistry and trust and be all set to go. We have shooting, guard play, size, and depth. Sucks to wait for them to develop, but that's how it goes.

 

[mcd6184]

Gotta love that Kentucky fans are telling us what we should do with our basketball program.

And now here I am as a Duke fan telling you what to do.

http://www.stobblog.com/2012/02/unbiased-look-at-current-state-of.html

Within this article I pretty much come to the same conclusion when looking at the current state of the Gophers. Tubby has to go for anything to change. Certainly two 3 star recruits coming in next year with an above average (maybe) Joe Coleman and a disappointing Rodney Williams will not bring this team anything more than we see this year.

Tubby has to go, unless the new AD can create a fire in Tubby's belly to get out of his comfort zone he has found with his weak non-conference schedule and around .500 big ten record that gets him to his very average bubble worthy 20-10 seasons that he has pretty much done every year as a coach at all of his stops.

Without that, it will be more of the same unless Tubby leaves.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Can you imagine if Tubby'd come in here as the new coach & not recruited Royce?

I can imagine that. The top headlines about our team would not have been about Youtube videos of a Gopher shoplifting and then assaulting a security guard. People would have been pretty miffed at first, but then when he pulled these shenanigans elsewhere, there would have been a collective moment where we say "thank goodness dodged that bullet" and Tubby could say "see, I told you we didn't want him in the program."

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

And now here I am as a Duke fan telling you what to do.

http://www.stobblog.com/2012/02/unbiased-look-at-current-state-of.html

Within this article I pretty much come to the same conclusion when looking at the current state of the Gophers. Tubby has to go for anything to change. Certainly two 3 star recruits coming in next year with an above average (maybe) Joe Coleman and a disappointing Rodney Williams will not bring this team anything more than we see this year.

Tubby has to go, unless the new AD can create a fire in Tubby's belly to get out of his comfort zone he has found with his weak non-conference schedule and around .500 big ten record that gets him to his very average bubble worthy 20-10 seasons that he has pretty much done every year as a coach at all of his stops.

Without that, it will be more of the same unless Tubby leaves.

Well, I gave it a shot on your article. Made it to around the 4th sentence, where you wrote: I couldn't even make the time though last night to watch the entire game, both channels of my DVR were in use with the Timberwolves game and American Idol for Mrs. Duke you then lost me my friend.

 

[scher215]

And now here I am as a Duke fan telling you what to do.

http://www.stobblog.com/2012/02/unbiased-look-at-current-state-of.html

Within this article I pretty much come to the same conclusion when looking at the current state of the Gophers. Tubby has to go for anything to change. Certainly two 3 star recruits coming in next year with an above average (maybe) Joe Coleman and a disappointing Rodney Williams will not bring this team anything more than we see this year.

Tubby has to go, unless the new AD can create a fire in Tubby's belly to get out of his comfort zone he has found with his weak non-conference schedule and around .500 big ten record that gets him to his very average bubble worthy 20-10 seasons that he has pretty much done every year as a coach at all of his stops.

Without that, it will be more of the same unless Tubby leaves.

Since your article can be refuted in a few places, let me spend a few minutes doing just that:

Now, admittedly I haven't watched a ton of Gopher basketball this year, but I have seen enough to form an opinion and know Tubby Smith well enough I think to judge how he is doing.

I am glad you start the article with this, it really really boosts your credibility when speaking on this Gophers team. I'll get to how well you seem to "know Tubby Smith" in a moment.

Though with all of that, none of the players on the 1998 team were 1st team All Americans or future NBA Lottery picks which is a rarity in the modern era and a good argument for Smith's coaching acumen. Though, from that season on with Kentucky, possibly college basketball's most premier program in which most coaches have had nothing but great success in recruiting and with their product on the court, Tubby's teams fell into relative mediocrity often losing 10+ games a season and earning Tubby the not so admirable moniker of "10 loss Tubby". After being a disappointment to the Kentucky faithful for 10 years

Tubby's winning percentage years 1-4 is nearly identical to his winning percentage years 5-10. In fact, his best regular season as coach comes in year 5 with entirely his own recruits when he goes undefeated in the SEC, and unless you want to argue Tubby Smith somehow managed to make his own SEC schedule, I am not sure how that isn't impressive. His last two years at UK were pretty below average for UK, but to act like all 10 years were like years 9 and 10 is simply untrue.

You are right though, that team had no All Americans or lottery picks and won the title, yet later in this article you claim Tubby won't win because he has no All Americans or lottery picks. Seem Mr. Smith won that way before, why not now? And you so kindly point out that title team was recruited by Rick Pitino, how come he couldn't recruit any All Americans or Lottery Picks to the "most premier program in the country"?

I just don't see a lot of hope in this roster. Joe Coleman could turn into a nice player, but in no means will he be a top flight Big Ten player that can lead you to a B1G conference title. So you look to recruiting and see if Tubby has a savior coming in next year. The incoming class boasts...two 3 star recruits...not exactly going to blow the doors off of Michigan State or Indiana

Andre Hollins and Joe Coleman were both higher rated recruits than Trey Burke and Austin Hollins the same as Tim Hardaway Jr. Those two are doing pretty well at Michigan, yet you see no hope for their higher rated counterparts at Minnesota? Mo Walker was also a top 150 player, already given up on him after half of a season? Seems like a pretty solid 4-player nucleus to me.

Around 20 wins each year, built mainly off of a very weak non-conference schedule and beating up on the less fortunate Big Ten teams in conference play.

Yet the next two years Tubby has signed the Gophers up for two of the most difficult non conference tourney's including a possible run in with your beloved Blue Devils.

 

[scher215]

I can imagine that. The top headlines about our team would not have been about Youtube videos of a Gopher shoplifting and then assaulting a security guard. People would have been pretty miffed at first, but then when he pulled these shenanigans elsewhere, there would have been a collective moment where we say "thank goodness dodged that bullet" and Tubby could say "see, I told you we didn't want him in the program."

What if Royce went to Iowa State right away or even UK. Never got into any trouble and was a lottery pick after year 2. Thoughts on Tubby at that point?

 

[From the Barn]

spammers gotta spam

 

[CrocShots]

spammers gotta spam

By the way, a king died in Zimbabwe and has a boatload of cash for you if you send me your personal and banking information.

 

[dpodoll68]

his weak non-conference schedule and around .500 big ten record that gets him to his very average bubble worthy 20-10 seasons that he has pretty much done every year as a coach at all of his stops

Wrong.

 

[mcd6184]

Well, I gave it a shot on your article. Made it to around the 4th sentence, where you wrote: I couldn't even make the time though last night to watch the entire game, both channels of my DVR were in use with the Timberwolves game and American Idol for Mrs. Duke you then lost me my friend.

haha...well I didn't say I was a gopher fan...and happy wife=happy life my friend.

I then stated I wish I could have two DVRs to have a his and hers so I could record more sports but nay I cannot.

Thanks for giving it a shot.

Hopefully you made it through my post on here, I gave you my quick synopsis of what I had to say in the article...with Tubby this program isn't going much further than they already have with Tubby.

 

[mcd6184]

Wrong.

Wrong?

1991–92 Tulsa 17–13 12–6 T–4th
1992–93 Tulsa 15–14 10–8 4th
1993–94 Tulsa 23–8 15–3 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1994–95 Tulsa 24–8 15–3 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
Tulsa: 79–43 52–20
Georgia Bulldogs (Southeastern Conference) (1995–1997)
1995–96 Georgia 21–10 9–7 T–3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1996–97 Georgia 24–9 10–6 4th NCAA 1st Round
Georgia: 45–19 19–13
Kentucky Wildcats (Southeastern Conference) (1997–2007)
1997–98 Kentucky 35–4 14–2 1st NCAA Champions
1998–99 Kentucky 28–9 11–5 3rd NCAA Elite Eight
1999–00 Kentucky 23–10 12–4 T–1st NCAA 2nd Round
2000–01 Kentucky 24–10 12–4 T–1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2001–02 Kentucky 22–10 10–6 T–2nd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2002–03 Kentucky 32–4 16–0 1st NCAA Elite Eight
2003–04 Kentucky 27–5 13–3 2nd NCAA 2nd Round
2004–05 Kentucky 28–6 14–2 1st NCAA Elite Eight
2005–06 Kentucky 22–13 9–7 6th NCAA 2nd Round
2006–07 Kentucky 22–12 9–7 4th NCAA 2nd Round
Kentucky: 263–83 120–40
Minnesota Golden Gophers (Big Ten Conference) (2007–present)
2007–08 Minnesota 20–14 8–10 6th NIT 1st Round
2008–09 Minnesota 22–11 9–9 T–7th NCAA 1st Round
2009–10 Minnesota 21–14 9–9 6th NCAA 1st Round
2010–11 Minnesota 17–14 6–12 9th
2011–12 Minnesota 16-6 4-5

22 seasons including this one

10 loss seasons - 13 (14 when this one is another)
non-10 loss seasons - 8 (4 of which had either 8 or 9 losses...leaving 4 seasons much better than what I said out of 22)

Not sure...but my statement seems pretty accurate.

 

[dpodoll68]

In 21 (not 22) seasons, he has 7 conference championships and 8 other finishes somewhere between 2nd and 4th. He has 9 seasons out of 21 in which he finished somewhere between sub-.500 and within 2 games over .500. You said "pretty much every year". Nine out of 21 seasons is in no way "pretty much every year". He has finished with 20 or less wins exactly 5 times in 20 seasons. Five times out of 20 is in no way "pretty much every year". But, please...continue with your inaccurate Tubby-bashing.

 

[mcd6184]

Since your article can be refuted in a few places, let me spend a few minutes doing just that:



I am glad you start the article with this, it really really boosts your credibility when speaking on this Gophers team. I'll get to how well you seem to "know Tubby Smith" in a moment.



Tubby's winning percentage years 1-4 is nearly identical to his winning percentage years 5-10. In fact, his best regular season as coach comes in year 5 with entirely his own recruits when he goes undefeated in the SEC, and unless you want to argue Tubby Smith somehow managed to make his own SEC schedule, I am not sure how that isn't impressive. His last two years at UK were pretty below average for UK, but to act like all 10 years were like years 9 and 10 is simply untrue.

You are right though, that team had no All Americans or lottery picks and won the title, yet later in this article you claim Tubby won't win because he has no All Americans or lottery picks. Seem Mr. Smith won that way before, why not now? And you so kindly point out that title team was recruited by Rick Pitino, how come he couldn't recruit any All Americans or Lottery Picks to the "most premier program in the country"?



Andre Hollins and Joe Coleman were both higher rated recruits than Trey Burke and Austin Hollins the same as Tim Hardaway Jr. Those two are doing pretty well at Michigan, yet you see no hope for their higher rated counterparts at Minnesota? Mo Walker was also a top 150 player, already given up on him after half of a season? Seems like a pretty solid 4-player nucleus to me.



Yet the next two years Tubby has signed the Gophers up for two of the most difficult non conference tourney's including a possible run in with your beloved Blue Devils.

1- my admitting I am not a huge gopher fan and having not watched a ton of them was there because I didn't want people thinking I was an expert and the only reason I was writing about an average Big Ten team was because a gopher fan buddy wanted to see my opinion from the outside looking in.

2.About his winning percantage staying the same from 1-4 to 5-10 means he is a stale coach that lacks great improvement. What you get is what you get and don't expect a lot of change. Pitino was on his way out after 97 and had lottery picks leave the team after their loss to Arizona, leaving the team with a coaching change without the top flight talent, yet full of solid talent in Jeff Sheppard, Nazr Mohommed, Jamaal Magloire and Wayne Turner and they did exceed expectations in the tournament actually coming back to beat my Dukies. I give Tubby credit for that and actually I would say Tubby can make a below average team average, and this above average team he made elite, but I don't think he himself can bring in the players to allow himself the opportunity to create that elite program himself and did it with Pitino's leftovers.

3. Yes great Joe Coleman and Andre Hollins were higher recruits than other Big 10 talent that is currently playing really well. Until that talent starts to show under Smith though what do you have? Nothing. And with the great strides (eye roll) of Ralph and Rodney over their 4 and 3 years respectively under Smith, let's just say I don't have a ton of hope that they are on the verge of having an "ahaa!" moment.

4. you can't predict the difficulty of a non-conference schedule in advance, especially 1 year or 2 years in advance and you are trying to do here, teams go up and down and a game against Butler last year for this year would've looked great, but now not so much. So that is weak to try to rest you hat, just like with the recruiting angle you took, on a hope and prayer that in a year or two they'll be good, when Smith has a track record of it just not being so. (though the performance of other teams obviously isn't under Smith's control in terms of non conference difficulty)

 

[zambam]

And now here I am as a Duke fan telling you what to do.

http://www.stobblog.com/2012/02/unbiased-look-at-current-state-of.html

Within this article I pretty much come to the same conclusion when looking at the current state of the Gophers. Tubby has to go for anything to change. Certainly two 3 star recruits coming in next year with an above average (maybe) Joe Coleman and a disappointing Rodney Williams will not bring this team anything more than we see this year.

Tubby has to go, unless the new AD can create a fire in Tubby's belly to get out of his comfort zone he has found with his weak non-conference schedule and around .500 big ten record that gets him to his very average bubble worthy 20-10 seasons that he has pretty much done every year as a coach at all of his stops.

Without that, it will be more of the same unless Tubby leaves.

Before I get to the article, I like how you completely disregard this roster simply because they aren't very highly rated on recruiting sites. Charles Buggs has multiple offers from BCS schools, Tubby isn't the only one who thinks he can play. Andre Hollins was called one of the best HS players in the country by the coach at Findlay Prep, one of the best Prep schools in the country. (more on Andre in a bit) Elliot Eliason may not be the athletic center you as a Duke fan are used to seeing, but I do not like how you leave his potential out completely. When the Gophers beat IU and Elliot was covering Zeller, Zeller had to make some of the toughest shots I have ever seen a person make. This coming from a freshman (granted Zeller is a freshman as well, but he is one of the best players in the B1G). Will Eliason ever be an offensive threat that can take over games in the post? I don't think so. But I think he will definitely become an intimidating presence on defense and the boards. You also completely disregard Mo Walker, who was a highly touted recruit. Ya, he's hurt, but this is modern era of medicine where it is easier to come back from injuries and actually be BETTER (Mbakwe is a pretty good example). Also your mention of the 3 star recruits not being what this team needs shows what little knowledge you have of this team. The fact that our coach is Tubby Smith is the only reason we can even get the foot in the door for some of these highly touted recruits. Do you really think some up-and-coming coach will be able to recruit better with inadequate facilities and a nostalgic arena that is losing its nostalgic feel? If you think yes, you are a fool.

Now to the article

I am about as excited about this roster as Ralph Sampson is excited about playing basketball. If you don't know Ralph, he makes Darko Milicic look like a middle school girl who just got to touch the hem of Justin Beiber's garment in terms of excitement for the game of basketball. If you don't know Darko...he ain't pumped up...sorry I am not Dennis Miller, I can't keep pumping out these great comedic references. My point is this roster is full of average players, many of which haven't lived up to their expectations (see Ralph Sampson, Rodney Williams, Andre Hollins) or haven't been consistent (Julian Welch, Maverick Ahanmisi, Joe Coleman, Austin Hollins, Elliot Eliason) or have been pretty much worthless (the rest) and finally have been hurt (Trever Mbakwe, Maurice Walker). I just don't see a lot of hope in this roster. Joe Coleman could turn into a nice player, but in no means will he be a top flight Big Ten player that can lead you to a B1G conference title. So you look to recruiting and see if Tubby has a savior coming in next year. The incoming class boasts...two 3 star recruits...not exactly going to blow the doors off of Michigan State or Indiana.

You seem to lack knowledge about Ralph. Ya, he isn't enthusiastic but did you watch the first game against Illinois? 22 points and a great performance. Sure he's not living up to expectations but expectations for him were pretty high.
Andre Hollins hasn't lived up to expectations in his freshman year in which he has been playing on a hurt ankle most of the season. Big f*cking deal. Is he a big time player as a freshman like Austin Rivers at Duke? No, but he also wasn't touted as such. You also forget to take into consideration he is learning a new position. He was mostly a SG in HS and Tubby wants him to play PG. Most players can't make that adjustment on the fly.
I like how all the inconsistent players you mention are Freshmen, Sophomores, or playing their first year in the B1G (Welch). You keep forgetting this ISN'T DUKE! Not every school can get that level of players that can come in and compete consistently at that kind of level. You're not looking at this subjectively, you're looking at this situation from the eyes of a Duke fan. The Gophers are no where near the level of Duke and that is just an unfair comparison.
BTW - Joe Coleman might become above average? Really? That's it? You're going to ignore some of his play before he has been on the team a year? There is no chance he develops an outside shot? No chance he become a solid defender? All he'll ever be able to do is drive (which he can still improve at a little bit)?
Once again you mention recruits as if any coach we could get to replace Tubby would be able to do better.
It is clear to me you are making points from a fairly uninformed perspective. (did you even know that we are the only school in the B1G without a practice facility?)

 

[scher215]

1- my admitting I am not a huge gopher fan and having not watched a ton of them was there because I didn't want people thinking I was an expert and the only reason I was writing about an average Big Ten team was because a gopher fan buddy wanted to see my opinion from the outside looking in.

2.About his winning percantage staying the same from 1-4 to 5-10 means he is a stale coach that lacks great improvement. What you get is what you get and don't expect a lot of change. Pitino was on his way out after 97 and had lottery picks leave the team after their loss to Arizona, leaving the team with a coaching change without the top flight talent, yet full of solid talent in Jeff Sheppard, Nazr Mohommed, Jamaal Magloire and Wayne Turner and they did exceed expectations in the tournament actually coming back to beat my Dukies. I give Tubby credit for that and actually I would say Tubby can make a below average team average, and this above average team he made elite, but I don't think he himself can bring in the players to allow himself the opportunity to create that elite program himself and did it with Pitino's leftovers.

3. Yes great Joe Coleman and Andre Hollins were higher recruits than other Big 10 talent that is currently playing really well. Until that talent starts to show under Smith though what do you have? Nothing. And with the great strides (eye roll) of Ralph and Rodney over their 4 and 3 years respectively under Smith, let's just say I don't have a ton of hope that they are on the verge of having an "ahaa!" moment.

4. you can't predict the difficulty of a non-conference schedule in advance, especially 1 year or 2 years in advance and you are trying to do here, teams go up and down and a game against Butler last year for this year would've looked great, but now not so much. So that is weak to try to rest you hat, just like with the recruiting angle you took, on a hope and prayer that in a year or two they'll be good, when Smith has a track record of it just not being so. (though the performance of other teams obviously isn't under Smith's control in terms of non conference difficulty)

I am just not willing to give up on two freshman and a RS-Freshman and a sophmore yet.

And you have a point on Ralph, he averages pretty similar numbers, but Rodney has improved stastically year after year. As did Al Nolen, Blake Hoffarber, and Damien Johnson. While not Tubby recruits, they improved. Trevor was having an improved season as well, although it did end prematurely.

 

[nuggett]

We're all frustrated and ticked off right now, but that's one of the dumbest things I've read on here for awhile. Let me put it this way, no matter who are coach is we will never be beating those schools for recruits. That doesn't mean we can't be a great program, but saying we have to be beating those schools for players is just not accurate.

The two best programs in the Big Ten are Ohio St. and Michigan St. According to Rivals, they've signed a combined 19 players the past three years (including the 2012 class). Of the 19, only two were recruited by any of the three schools you mentioned.

I think you miss my point

Does Tubby even TRY to get better players?
Of course the very best are going to go to the best.
That doesn't mean you start off recruiting by looking in the middle of the pack and hope to get some role players.
A coach of Tubby's caliber should aim very high.
A coach of Tubby's caliber should be able to do better than he is.
A coach of Tubby's caliber should not be in year 5 with the fan's "hoping and begging to get enough wins to
"make the NCAA"

I remember when Tubby came to Minn. FOT ( not a fan of his ) but did have some expectations that I felt
were reasonable. By this time, Tubby should have Minn. near the top of the Big Ten and in the hunt for a Big Ten title.
"Making the NCAA Tourn. should be a given and fans should at least be able to expect getting to the Sweet 16 now and then.

The fact is Tubby has low expectations. The fans do not demand better and that is why at year 5 the fans are "hoping"
to make the NCAA Tourn.

Accept mediocrity and mediocrity is all you will get.

 

[zambam]

I think you miss my point

Does Tubby even TRY to get better players?
Of course the very best are going to go to the best.
That doesn't mean you start off recruiting by looking in the middle of the pack and hope to get some role players.
A coach of Tubby's caliber should aim very high.

Do you forget we were a finalist for Harison Barnes? And that whole thing by Doogie about Tubby missing on players he offered that went to better schools? It's not like Tubby wasn't trying to bring in better players.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

What if Royce went to Iowa State right away or even UK. Never got into any trouble and was a lottery pick after year 2. Thoughts on Tubby at that point?

Then people might be pissed at him for not getting Royce, but I still think we are better off in that scenario having spared ourselves the embarrassment and not having counted on Royce filling a role on our roster. It seems pretty uncontroversial given what we know now that bringing Royce here was a mistake. Whether Tubby brought him here thinking he would not be a problem or because he thought he would be but wanted to avoid ticking off fans, I am not happy with it.

 

[Blackhammer]

Do you forget we were a finalist for Harison Barnes? And that whole thing by Doogie about Tubby missing on players he offered that went to better schools? It's not like Tubby wasn't trying to bring in better players.

We had about as much chance of getting Harrison Barnes as the Wolves had of getting Lebron.Tim HardawayJr was a better prospect than anyone we have signed with the exception of Royce White.

 

[GibsonSG]

Do you forget we were a finalist for Harison Barnes? And that whole thing by Doogie about Tubby missing on players he offered that went to better schools? It's not like Tubby wasn't trying to bring in better players.

Finalist? Are you sure about that? I sure don't remember him coming to visit the U.

Why are some on here so determined to ride Tubby's sinking ship to the bottom? (Well, maybe it isn't completely sinking, but it's sure headed nowhere.) Tubby has always been an inconsistent, mediocre recruiter and his lean recruiting years at even the almighty Kentucky reflect that. The university could pay a coach a lot less to consistently finish 6th through 10th.

I wish Tubby would prove me wrong. Where are the star players to lead us to victory in ugly, brutal games like last night? Signing him to an extension would be a big mistake.

 

[jstegs03]

Overreaction:

Is it even confirmed Flip Saunders would come here. I keep hearing this request but havent heard any facts about Flip's interest

 

[nuggett]

As long as were on the Tubby subject let me get something else out of the way.

You wonder why so many Kentucky follow how well Tubby is or isn't doing ?

Vindication

No, its not about Cal or if he will get UK on probation. So lets not go there. This has NOTHING to do with the
current state of affairs at UK or any other b ball program

Vindication

Tubby started at UK and nobody with any sense at all could complain about what he did.
On a personal note, many fans wanted Billy Donavan to coach UK. I was NOT one of them.
I had seen Tubby as a Pitino assistant and what he did when he was at Georgia.
In my mind Tubby Smith WAS THE BEST choice to be the head coach of Kentucky Hands down.

Let me also add with some insight that doesn't come from the media about how fans viewed Tubby but
come from a place a little closer to home. Right here in Lexington.
Being in Minn. you probably don't know that for about 3 years Tubby was polled as being the Most Popular
person in the state. Not only was he doing well as the coach of a demanding program but was a great community
person. So all this garbage that comes from the sports outlets about Kentucky fans not liking Tubby is just that Garbage.
Believe me, I live here and its very easy to tell how well the head coach of UK is or isn't liked.

After a few years, and especially the last few we noticed that THE TOP recruits were seeming to slip away.
They always ended up choosing N Carolina, Duke, Kansas, or those types of schools. Then it got to where
they didn't even have UK high on their list. Finally it seemed Tubby just stop trying to get them at all.
As one sports writer put it, "Tubby is more comfortable with a serviceable type player that will listen to him
and not give him the ego that some of the high profile players have."
The problem is you can't get very far with serviceable players filling up the team. You have to have some
stars to get you to the top. It's the coaches job to manage them.
Other coaches do just that. Pick any top coach. They manage their stars just fine.
Pat Summit is one of the very best coaches of all time and many times she has said that you have to have the
super stars if you expect to win the big ones.

Anyway, we noticed the recruiting going downhill. We left the top of the SEC for the middle, by the end of
his last 2 years Kentucky was not even a top 20 ranked team. We got our wins beating teams like High Point.
When we played against the better competition we played well enough to keep it close but more times than
not we lost in the end. Each year Tubby would say that he wanted to play a faster paced game like the fans
wanted. Then at game time the offensive brakes were applied and Tubby was talking about defense.
As a matter of fact, that is ALL he talked about. Defense.

Overall, we saw our program go from the top to being a very middle of the road team. What really made it bad
was there was no end in sight. It was ALWAYS something. Always.

So, it is about vindication. The UK fans have been vilified for wanting Tubby to either get the program going
again or move on. Sure our expectations are high. Any successful person or business IS successful because of
those high demands.

For me I had enough of Tubby at the end of his next to last year. After losing 12 games he said on the radio
and I quote: " We won 20 games and made the Tournament, this was a successful season.
Winning 20 and "making the tourn. is not high enough demands. You set your sights on the top every time,
not the middle.

I really hope whoever takes the time to read this understands that this is not about being able to say
"I told you so" but about feeling a little vindicated knowing that it wasn't just crazy fans because it appears
that Tubby is doing the exact same things he was doing during his latter years at UK and sure enough he
is getting the exact same results.

I know this is a long post but thanks for taking the time to read it.
You may not agree with me and that is what this country is all about but at least
we can all have different opinions.

Thanks Again

 

[scher215]

As long as were on the Tubby subject let me get something else out of the way.

You wonder why so many Kentucky follow how well Tubby is or isn't doing ?

Vindication

No, its not about Cal or if he will get UK on probation. So lets not go there. This has NOTHING to do with the
current state of affairs at UK or any other b ball program

Vindication

Tubby started at UK and nobody with any sense at all could complain about what he did.
On a personal note, many fans wanted Billy Donavan to coach UK. I was NOT one of them.
I had seen Tubby as a Pitino assistant and what he did when he was at Georgia.
In my mind Tubby Smith WAS THE BEST choice to be the head coach of Kentucky Hands down.

Let me also add with some insight that doesn't come from the media about how fans viewed Tubby but
come from a place a little closer to home. Right here in Lexington.
Being in Minn. you probably don't know that for about 3 years Tubby was polled as being the Most Popular
person in the state. Not only was he doing well as the coach of a demanding program but was a great community
person. So all this garbage that comes from the sports outlets about Kentucky fans not liking Tubby is just that Garbage.
Believe me, I live here and its very easy to tell how well the head coach of UK is or isn't liked.

After a few years, and especially the last few we noticed that THE TOP recruits were seeming to slip away.
They always ended up choosing N Carolina, Duke, Kansas, or those types of schools. Then it got to where
they didn't even have UK high on their list. Finally it seemed Tubby just stop trying to get them at all.
As one sports writer put it, "Tubby is more comfortable with a serviceable type player that will listen to him
and not give him the ego that some of the high profile players have."
The problem is you can't get very far with serviceable players filling up the team. You have to have some
stars to get you to the top. It's the coaches job to manage them.
Other coaches do just that. Pick any top coach. They manage their stars just fine.
Pat Summit is one of the very best coaches of all time and many times she has said that you have to have the
super stars if you expect to win the big ones.

Anyway, we noticed the recruiting going downhill. We left the top of the SEC for the middle, by the end of
his last 2 years Kentucky was not even a top 20 ranked team. We got our wins beating teams like High Point.
When we played against the better competition we played well enough to keep it close but more times than
not we lost in the end. Each year Tubby would say that he wanted to play a faster paced game like the fans
wanted. Then at game time the offensive brakes were applied and Tubby was talking about defense.
As a matter of fact, that is ALL he talked about. Defense.

Overall, we saw our program go from the top to being a very middle of the road team. What really made it bad
was there was no end in sight. It was ALWAYS something. Always.

So, it is about vindication. The UK fans have been vilified for wanting Tubby to either get the program going
again or move on. Sure our expectations are high. Any successful person or business IS successful because of
those high demands.

For me I had enough of Tubby at the end of his next to last year. After losing 12 games he said on the radio
and I quote: " We won 20 games and made the Tournament, this was a successful season.
Winning 20 and "making the tourn. is not high enough demands. You set your sights on the top every time,
not the middle.

I really hope whoever takes the time to read this understands that this is not about being able to say
"I told you so" but about feeling a little vindicated knowing that it wasn't just crazy fans because it appears
that Tubby is doing the exact same things he was doing during his latter years at UK and sure enough he
is getting the exact same results.

I know this is a long post but thanks for taking the time to read it.
You may not agree with me and that is what this country is all about but at least
we can all have different opinions.

Thanks Again

This was definitely your most well said and thought up post. You actually didn't come across as a 4 year old. In all seriousness, That really is appreciated.

I will say though you can win without a "star" or an ego basically. I don't think tubby views all stars as having an ego. He did go after Barnes and Royce and tyus. I do agree that tubby does like coach able players that use teamwork though over guys that may have attitude issues.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

I can imagine that. The top headlines about our team would not have been about Youtube videos of a Gopher shoplifting and then assaulting a security guard. People would have been pretty miffed at first, but then when he pulled these shenanigans elsewhere, there would have been a collective moment where we say "thank goodness dodged that bullet" and Tubby could say "see, I told you we didn't want him in the program."

No shot. Royce hasn't had an issue since he's been at Iowa St & there's no way the Tubby haters would have ever let it die. Hell Royce screwed up at the U about 5 times in 6 months & people still blame Tubby for letting him go to ISU.