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[SDGopherFan]

Doogie

you mentioned in a previous post regarding an -email you recieved this morning that Sumlin was no longer your prediction for the new head coach here. Can you elaborate, I think someone mentioned he is more of a pac-10 guy, isn't colorado slated to go to the pac-10 in a year or two, so does that mean he wants the co job.

 

[nsmike]

A lot of the commentary is about the off the cuff perception of an unnamed coach. Any opinion from a single person should be taken with a grain of salt. Cognitive dissonance means that we tend to only pay attention to those that agree with us so we tend to believe that more people agree with us than do in reality. I find it hard to believe that the 98 out of 100 number is anywhere near accurate. The other part of it is perception vs reality, once you start looking at reality perception often changes. I have been in both Arizona and Colorado and liked visiting them, but I wouldn't live in either Tempe or the Denver/Boulder area that's reality, and I'm sure it would be the same for a lot of people.

 

[year of the gopher]

I think many (including me) share this opinion. Unfortunately, the opinion of Gophers fans doesn't matter here. If you take an honest look, you can see plenty of things that a potential coach might not like. Recognizing that others may not see what we do isn't hating on the program. Like I said, if the things we love and profess as strengths of the school exist, then it's up to the U to sell them to potential hires.

I completely agree that there are things a potential coach might not like about the job. But I don't think it's a "fan's" job to denigrate his own program as some of our own seem to like to do. It's an attitude shift that I think a lot of people on this board and frankly in this area need to go through.

To the naysayers, I get that there are disadvantages here, but tell me why the football job is so much less attractive than the basketball job. We are, after all, just a few years removed from bringing in one of the top coaches in the country to coach our basketball team. Why did he come here? If he did, why wouldn't a good football coach come here?

 

[SDGopherFan]

I would live in colorado if everything else is equal. But I don't assume everyone or at least most agree with me.

 

[year of the gopher]

You keep beating this drum. (Also, you keep insinuating that a real "Gopher fan" would blindly think that this is the greatest job ever, which I, for one, don't appreciate.)

I keep beating the drum because you and others keep trying to say that Minnesota is WORSE than all the other jobs that could be out there. It's a typical Minnesota "aw-shucks, we're okay but boy, that Colorado sure is amazing" kind of attitude. Have a little pride in your school, state, and city and don't be afraid to tell people how good it is for once.

Unfortunately for your case, everything you're referencing is all on the basis of potential, not reality. "Only D-I school in the state, great school, great metro area, playing in a premier athletic conference" all mean absolutely nothing if you can't leverage them to your advantage. The U is going on 43 years and counting of failing to do so.

Only D1 school in the state is potential not reality? A great school is potential not reality? A great metro area is potential not reality? Playing in a premier conference is potential, not reality? I'm not going to take the time right now but I could prove every single one of those things is reality. We haven't taken advantage of them in the past, but we can and should now.

If I were an up-and-coming non-BCS coach looking to move to an auto-bid school, Minnesota would be one of my last choices (money being equal). At worst, I would place it ahead of Duke, Washington St., Indiana, and Vanderbilt. At best, you could also argue places like Mississippi St., Baylor, and UConn. What this means is that at least 80-85% of BCS jobs that come open are better than Minnesota, not to mention a handful of non-BCS jobs. And this is coming from the perspective of someone who is extremely biased toward the University of Minnesota.

Winning at Minnesota is very difficult. We have the perception of being above the Arctic Circle, haven't won anything in over 4 decades, have a below average-to-poor local recruiting base, pay terrible salaries historically, and are a doormat in what is, at worst, the 2nd-best football conference in the country. The teams that are, at least theoretically, our equals have treated us like red-headed stepchildren over the past few years. We do have an awesome brand-new stadium, and (allegedly) a renewed commitment to football, but those things don't erase everything that's happened since 1967. I can't blame any coach who is in-demand for holding out for a better job.

For all of these reasons, I will be shocked if the University is able to hire anyone that was actually wanted by other schools. Unless, of course, they pay him far more than what he's worth. (Which, for the record, I am in favor of.)

Okay, recruiting to the north is a little tougher, I'll give you that. Everyone knows it and Wisconsin deals with it just fine. Nationally they aren't perceived to be any further south than Minnesota.

The fact that our neighbors have had success recently only proves the point that it's possible and with the ACTUAL renewed commitment by the administration and the great new stadium, there's no reason it can't be done here.

As I posted elsewhere, there are only 1-2 jobs that open at top 10-15 programs each year. That's a small number of those jobs when you consider the number of quality candidates that have been bandied about on this board plus all the other candidates those programs might be looking at as well (NFL coaches, top level coordinators, etc.).

Minnesota is not a top job, but it's a good job and you won't convince me that it's worse than 98% of the other jobs out there or anything close to that.

 

[GoAUpher]

I completely agree that there are things a potential coach might not like about the job. But I don't think it's a "fan's" job to denigrate his own program as some of our own seem to like to do. It's an attitude shift that I think a lot of people on this board and frankly in this area need to go through.

To the naysayers, I get that there are disadvantages here, but tell me why the football job is so much less attractive than the basketball job. We are, after all, just a few years removed from bringing in one of the top coaches in the country to coach our basketball team. Why did he come here? If he did, why wouldn't a good football coach come here?

Denigrate? I like a positive attitude towards the Gophers as much as anyone, but if there was ever an instance where differing opinions on how great the U is don't matter, this is it. Clapping louder doesn't do anything besides make us all feel better. I don't think its a fan's job to tear their team down, but I also don't think it's a fan's job to proclaim their schools awesomeness as a pre-req for being a fan. When it comes to football, schools like Colorado, ASU, and the U are basically even. The pluses or minuses to each depend on the opinion of the person evaluating them. There isn't anything wrong with noting that or noting that the perception might be that MN isn't on par with these other schools.

Basketball and football are 2 entirely different ballgames in areas like fan attendance, recruiting, what constitutes a good season W and L wise, etc. You really can't compare them easily and its one reason Maturi should have stayed away from the "Tubby-like" hire verbiage IMO. The negatives and downsides of each program are also much different.

 

[year of the gopher]

It's not Kool-Aid. It's just that Minnesotans are expected to drink the sewer water, and when they won't drink it, people keep going on about drinking the Kool-Aid.

And people keep using the term passive-aggressive, without really understanding it:

"Passive–aggressive behavior, a personality trait, is passive, sometimes obstructionist resistance to following through with expectations in interpersonal or occupational situations. It is a personality trait marked by a pervasive pattern of negative attitudes and passive, usually disavowed resistance in interpersonal or occupational situations.

It can manifest itself as learned helplessness, procrastination, stubbornness, resentment, sullenness, or deliberate/repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible."

This.

 

[howeda7]

To the naysayers, I get that there are disadvantages here, but tell me why the football job is so much less attractive than the basketball job. We are, after all, just a few years removed from bringing in one of the top coaches in the country to coach our basketball team. Why did he come here? If he did, why wouldn't a good football coach come here?

The football and basketball jobs are not even close. The Minnesota basketball job is a top 30 job. The Minnesota football job is not in the top 50. First, Minnesota has generally produced enough basketball talent to serve as the foundation for a solid program, it has not for football. Obviously you need more players, but still. Second, multiple basketball coaches have had good (though scandal-marred) success over the last 40 years (Musselman, Dutcher, Clem, now Tubby) They even reached the basketball equivalent of the Rose Bowl in 1997 (don't start about how it didnt' happen. It happened). The football program has only Lou, who bailed, and Mason, who was (to outsiders) unappreciated. The basketball program has generally sold-out its historic arena, which is regarded as one of the toughest places to play. The football program had a half-full plastic Dome for most of the last 30 years. There are probably others, but you get the picture.

 

[GoAUpher]

I keep beating the drum because you and others keep trying to say that Minnesota is WORSE than all the other jobs that could be out there. It's a typical Minnesota "aw-shucks, we're okay but boy, that Colorado sure is amazing" kind of attitude. Have a little pride in your school, state, and city and don't be afraid to tell people how good it is for once.

Having pride in your school and displaying that pride does not demand you automatically place your school on top. Nor does it mean you think your team is doomed to be on the bottom. It only means you think your school is, at the moment you say it, not on the same level with another. Nor does it mean you think the other school is amazing.

The fact that our neighbors have had success recently only proves the point that it's possible and with the ACTUAL renewed commitment by the administration and the great new stadium, there's no reason it can't be done here.

As I posted elsewhere, there are only 1-2 jobs that open at top 10-15 programs each year. That's a small number of those jobs when you consider the number of quality candidates that have been bandied about on this board plus all the other candidates those programs might be looking at as well (NFL coaches, top level coordinators, etc.).

Minnesota is not a top job, but it's a good job and you won't convince me that it's worse than 98% of the other jobs out there or anything close to that.

Of course getting to the WI level is possible. I don't think anyone saying that maybe ASU or CO is a more desirable job right now is claiming otherwise. I'm not sure how you're tying the two topics other than some pent up frustration with negative and perceived negative posters on the board.

Note how most folks also aren't claiming that MN isn't a good job. They are saying that in comparison to other open and potentially open jobs they think the other jobs could be seen as more attractive. Not everyone is going to agree with you. I love that you won't be convinced otherwise on your sentiments and I don't see any reason you should change them. But stop taking a reasonable stance like ASU might be more attractive and conflating it with "the U sucks and will always suck b/c its the suckiest place that ever sucked" when folks aren't saying that.

 

[Silvio]

I don't know if I would say Tubby has had success here yet. He has improved the program from where he found it, but success might be a stretch.

 

[GopherGod]

Having pride in your school and displaying that pride does not demand you automatically place your school on top. Nor does it mean you think your team is doomed to be on the bottom. It only means you think your school is, at the moment you say it, not on the same level with another. Nor does it mean you think the other school is amazing.

Of course getting to the WI level is possible. I don't think anyone saying that maybe ASU or CO is a more desirable job right now is claiming otherwise. I'm not sure how you're tying the two topics other than some pent up frustration with negative and perceived negative posters on the board.

Note how most folks also aren't claiming that MN isn't a good job. They are saying that in comparison to other open and potentially open jobs they think the other jobs could be seen as more attractive. Not everyone is going to agree with you. I love that you won't be convinced otherwise on your sentiments and I don't see any reason you should change them. But stop taking a reasonable stance like ASU might be more attractive and conflating it with "the U sucks and will always suck b/c its the suckiest place that ever sucked" when folks aren't saying that.

+ 1

 

[dpodoll68]

I keep beating the drum because you and others keep trying to say that Minnesota is WORSE than all the other jobs that could be out there.

No, I never said that.

It's a typical Minnesota "aw-shucks, we're okay but boy, that Colorado sure is amazing" kind of attitude.

I'm not even from Minnesota. But whatevs.

Have a little pride in your school, state, and city and don't be afraid to tell people how good it is for once.

I do. All the time, in fact. That doesn't mean I'm going to delude myself into thinking our football program is some type of destination job. It hasn't been that way for at least 40 years.

Only D1 school in the state is potential not reality? A great school is potential not reality? A great metro area is potential not reality? Playing in a premier conference is potential, not reality?

In terms of recruiting coaches and players, yes. Again, none of those things matter if we don't leverage them. For example, many people love to go to Arizona St. because it's a party school and it's always hot and sunny. For me, living there even for four years would be my own personal definition of hell. I don't see can't-miss coaches and players beating down our door, so yes, those things are only potential assets, not realized assets.

Okay, recruiting to the north is a little tougher, I'll give you that. Everyone knows it and Wisconsin deals with it just fine. Nationally they aren't perceived to be any further south than Minnesota.

See, you and I know this. We live here. Nationally? This is just not true. I've never seen a feature film where people purposely give Wisconsinites stupid voices and make it seem like they live in permafrost.

The fact that our neighbors have had success recently only proves the point that it's possible and with the ACTUAL renewed commitment by the administration and the great new stadium, there's no reason it can't be done here.

I have never said it couldn't. In fact, I've said hundreds of times that the right coach can get it done. Did you note how you used the word "possible"? "Possible"? "Potential"? Hmm...

As I posted elsewhere, there are only 1-2 jobs that open at top 10-15 programs each year.

That's fine, but Minnesota is in line behind, at least, 45-50 jobs nationwide. Or are you going to sit there with a straight face and say Minnesota is equivalent to, say, Auburn? Clemson, even?

Minnesota is not a top job, but it's a good job and you won't convince me that it's worse than 98% of the other jobs out there or anything close to that.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said that. It is, at best, in the 15th or 20th percentile among BCS level jobs.

 

[Rescooter]

Denver/Boulder doesn't make this list

Here's a list of the top cities in a variety of categories. Sure our weather sucks sometimes, but we've got lots of women with blond hair and blue eyes (I married one). We make the "best looking people in some publications, but "best people" and "most friendly people" and you be the judge of this one:

The Cities With the Best-Looking People
Who knew all the pretty people lived in just a handful of cities? Apparently, they do. AOL Travel and Travel + Leisure magazine teamed up to find out America's Favorite Cities and in the process they found out the cities with the best-looking people.

So if good looks are what you're seeking, this is where you should go:

San Diego
Honolulu
Austin
San Juan
San Francisco
Las Vegas
Seattle
Phoenix/Scottsdale
Portland
San Antonio
But you're not that shallow, are you? You want more in a city than hot babes and gorgeous guys, right?

Cities With the Best People
Honolulu
Nashville
San Antonio
Austin
Twin Cities (Mpls/St Paul)

Most Friendly Cities
Nashville
Honolulu
San Antonio
Twin Cities (Mpls/St Paul)
Austin

Most Romantic Cities
San Juan
Honolulu
San Francisco
New Orleans
San Diego

Best Cities for a Steamy Encounter
New Orleans
Miami
San Juan
Honolulu
Las Vegas

Best Cities for Meeting Someone New
New York
Miami
Austin
Chicago
Boston

Cities With the Best Restaurants
New Orleans
Chicago
New York
San Francisco
Boston

Bottom line: People like it here and we should not be afraid to brag about Minnesota Nice. Others do....

 

[dpodoll68]

Here's a list of the top cities in a variety of categories. Sure our weather sucks sometimes, but we've got lots of women with blond hair and blue eyes (I married one). We make the "best looking people in some publications, but "best people" and "most friendly people" and you be the judge of this one:

The Cities With the Best-Looking People
Who knew all the pretty people lived in just a handful of cities? Apparently, they do. AOL Travel and Travel + Leisure magazine teamed up to find out America's Favorite Cities and in the process they found out the cities with the best-looking people.

So if good looks are what you're seeking, this is where you should go:

San Diego
Honolulu
Austin
San Juan
San Francisco
Las Vegas
Seattle
Phoenix/Scottsdale
Portland
San Antonio
But you're not that shallow, are you? You want more in a city than hot babes and gorgeous guys, right?

Cities With the Best People
Honolulu
Nashville
San Antonio
Austin
Twin Cities (Mpls/St Paul)

Most Friendly Cities
Nashville
Honolulu
San Antonio
Twin Cities (Mpls/St Paul)
Austin

Most Romantic Cities
San Juan
Honolulu
San Francisco
New Orleans
San Diego

Best Cities for a Steamy Encounter
New Orleans
Miami
San Juan
Honolulu
Las Vegas

Best Cities for Meeting Someone New
New York
Miami
Austin
Chicago
Boston

Cities With the Best Restaurants
New Orleans
Chicago
New York
San Francisco
Boston

Bottom line: People like it here and we should not be afraid to brag about Minnesota Nice. Others do....

Surely Hawaii, Vanderbilt, UNLV, and San Diego St. must be destination jobs? Right?

 

[Bo Darville]

Cities With the Best People
Honolulu
Nashville
San Antonio
Austin
Twin Cities (Mpls/St Paul)

Most Friendly Cities
Nashville
Honolulu
San Antonio
Twin Cities (Mpls/St Paul)
Austin

Most Romantic Cities
San Juan
Honolulu
San Francisco
New Orleans
San Diego

Best Cities for a Steamy Encounter
New Orleans
Miami
San Juan
Honolulu
Las Vegas

Best Cities for Meeting Someone New
New York
Miami
Austin
Chicago
Boston

Cities With the Best Restaurants
New Orleans
Chicago
New York
San Francisco
Boston

Bottom line: People like it here and we should not be afraid to brag about Minnesota Nice. Others do....

You forgot one. Cities with the best message board posters:
Minneapolis
St Paul
Rochester
Mankato
Duluth

 

[Silvio]

Rochester posters are too heavy on the medical talk for my liking. Although their breakdown of the days activity is almost surgical!

 

[Tucker32]

I agree that cases can be made for each school being attractive and I understand SOME of the recruiting advantages ASU or CO have (though again, we're the only D-1 game in town here). What I was saying is that I don't think it's clear cut that those are better jobs. And I'm frankly tired of reading on our own f'ing message board about what a crappy job we all think this is. It's a great job, at a great school, in a great metro area, in what I consider to be hands down the best athletic conference in college sports. That's my opinion, I just wish more "gopher fans" shared it.

Agree 100%! I get the tired of the "we're not good enough syndrome" i see on here all the time. There is no reason we can't win like WI, IA, NE. They have been doing it and now have advantages, but they created those advantages over time by winning.

Our own University President just said last week that we have convinced ourselves that we can only be mediocre. He hit the nail on the head, and I'm glad - despite mistakes he may have made - that he has higher expectations for our program than mediocrity.

 

[Rescooter]

You forgot one. Cities with the best message board posters:
Minneapolis
St Paul
Rochester
Mankato
Duluth

That is hilarious! I would substitute Woodbury for Mankato, but other than that, I agree with your list.

 

[GoAUpher]

Agree 100%! I get the tired of the "we're not good enough syndrome" i see on here all the time. There is no reason we can't win like WI, IA, NE. They have been doing it and now have advantages, but they created those advantages over time by winning.

Our own University President just said last week that we have convinced ourselves that we can only be mediocre. He hit the nail on the head, and I'm glad - despite mistakes he may have made - that he has higher expectations for our program than mediocrity.

I agree to this. Now point out where the folks who posit that CO or ASU are or could be perceived as better football jobs then MN are claiming MN isn't good enough, can't succeed at FB, or should be comfortable with mediocrity.

One is not tied to the other.

 

[glovedgopher]

Here's a list of the top cities in a variety of categories. Sure our weather sucks sometimes, but we've got lots of women with blond hair and blue eyes (I married one). We make the "best looking people in some publications, but "best people" and "most friendly people" and you be the judge of this one:

The Cities With the Best-Looking People
Who knew all the pretty people lived in just a handful of cities? Apparently, they do. AOL Travel and Travel + Leisure magazine teamed up to find out America's Favorite Cities and in the process they found out the cities with the best-looking people.

So if good looks are what you're seeking, this is where you should go:

San Diego
Honolulu
Austin
San Juan
San Francisco
Las Vegas
Seattle
Phoenix/Scottsdale
Portland
San Antonio
But you're not that shallow, are you? You want more in a city than hot babes and gorgeous guys, right?

Cities With the Best People
Honolulu
Nashville
San Antonio
Austin
Twin Cities (Mpls/St Paul)

Most Friendly Cities
Nashville
Honolulu
San Antonio
Twin Cities (Mpls/St Paul)
Austin

Most Romantic Cities
San Juan
Honolulu
San Francisco
New Orleans
San Diego

Best Cities for a Steamy Encounter
New Orleans
Miami
San Juan
Honolulu
Las Vegas

Best Cities for Meeting Someone New
New York
Miami
Austin
Chicago
Boston

Cities With the Best Restaurants
New Orleans
Chicago
New York
San Francisco
Boston

Bottom line: People like it here and we should not be afraid to brag about Minnesota Nice. Others do....

Where is the list for best cities for coaching a football team? Face it, we are not making that list.

 

[maroonfive]

Colorado is not a better job

Most of the people who like to think this I am sure have never been there. The state is half desert, Denver is a dump, and the mountains are a pile of rocks. That being said the U is a better school, has better facilities, and has a bigger fan base.
I am not sure why they are even a division one school. Look at their athletic department. Their basketball program sucks, they have no baseball team, no wrestling team, and I am at a loss why they do not have hockey. They have a football team and nothing else.

Go Gophers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Where is the list for best cities for coaching a football team? Face it, we are not making that list.

Isn't it obvious that only the most liveable and cosmopolitan cities like Tuscaloosa, Norman, Gainesville, Boise can attract big name college coaches?

 

[Curseislifted33]

Isn't it obvious that only the most liveable and cosmopolitan cities like Tuscaloosa, Norman, Gainesville, Boise can attract big name college coaches?

those are all college football obsessed towns, with nothing else even coming close to the importance of college football.

 

[Law_Abiding_Gopher]

Isn't it obvious that only the most liveable and cosmopolitan cities like Tuscaloosa, Norman, Gainesville, Boise can attract big name college coaches?

it seems obvious that B-Law is pointing out the absurdity of the which city is better argument in landing a high level coach.

As an aside how far outside of OKC is Norman, I was under the impression that it is a suburb, but I've not been there and don't really know.

 

[60's Guy]

hold on

Where is the list for best cities for coaching a football team? Face it, we are not making that list.

It's all in the eye of the beholder. Maybe Minnesota is your dream. Maybe the Big Ten is your dream and MN is the only chance you have to be a Big Ten coach.

Most everything that is not good about Minnesota as a football school is something that an inspired coach can change. If he does that, then everyone else's perspective is changed that MN is now a top destination.

There is no place perfect. Florida and California have advantages but they are not perfect.
San Diego is has a lot of "perfect" components. They expect to have a nice basketball team this year. They once had a storied football program. But, nobody would put it at the top of anyone's football jobs list.

They are all what somebody makes it. We just need the right somebody.

 

[SharpeGopher]

"First, Minnesota has generally produced enough basketball talent to serve as the foundation for a solid program, it has not for football. Obviously you need more players, but still."

Have you followed players coming from the state recently?? Over the past decade or so Minnesota has produced some pretty good football players. They just haven't gone to Minnesota. While some players have gone to the U (Barbers, Setterstrom, Spaeth), most have go other places like Wisconsin, Iowa, ND and other places (Floyd, Binns, Gilreath, Klug, Stocco, Henderson, Kelley, Harris, Laws, Eubanks, Carlson, Sorenson, Robinson (both Brandon and Alexander), Anderson) just to name a few. Minnesota is producing just as many or more quality players than Wisconsin and Iowa. The thing is both of those schools keep their players in state and managed to take our best players away from us. One other thing Iowa does is it takes chances on walk-ons from its state that turn out to be pretty solid players. While the boarder line players from Minnesota go to NDSU, SDSU, UND, and USD and then come up and whoop up on us. We need a coach that can keep these players in state. Also a coach that can develop players. Iowa never gets highly ranked classes, but they know how to develop players. As we saw with mason he could develop talent on offense at least. Brewster got some good players he just couldn't coach them. A good player can't do much without the help of a good coach.

 

[GopherGod]

it seems obvious that B-Law is pointing out the absurdity of the which city is better argument in landing a high level coach.

As an aside how far outside of OKC is Norman, I was under the impression that it is a suburb, but I've not been there and don't really know.

Norman is only about a 25 minute drive from downtown OKC.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Norman is only about a 25 minute drive from downtown OKC.

I actually didn't know that, but yeah, I was just trying to point out that it is absurdity in some of the aguments about the U being so attractive to coaches because it is in the Twin Cities.

 

[year of the gopher]

I agree to this. Now point out where the folks who posit that CO or ASU are or could be perceived as better football jobs then MN are claiming MN isn't good enough, can't succeed at FB, or should be comfortable with mediocrity.

One is not tied to the other.

No, however dpodoll did say something along the lines that he'd be surprised if we got a coach who had any other offers. That to me says that he thinks we are a worse job than just about any other school out there. I disagree.

 

[alchemy2u]

I bet most of you guys think your mom is ugly and you are ashamed to take your wife out to dinner!

Minnesota is a very good coaching opportunity. You need to think about it in the eyes of a driven football coach. To be the best you need to compete with the best, the type of coach we want does not shy away from competition or a challenge, they charge into it with a full head of steam. Where else will you get a new stadium, be the regional college team (MN/ND/SD,etc..), and compete in one of the two best conferences in college football?

It is not even close in comparing the PAC10 and the BT. Just look at the automatic bowl tie ins, the BT and the SEC are held in the same regard, the PAC10 is comparable to the Big East (e.g. Sun bowl is PAC10#3 vs SEC#5, Capital one is BT#2 vs SEC#2, Holiday is PAC10#2 vs B12#3, etc... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_bids_to_college_bowl_games)