Kill says he needs 4 recruiting classes to break Gophers' culture

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EG#9 said:
If Jerry Kill means he needs 4 recruiting classes starting with '12 to compete for Big Ten titles, that is completely understandable. If Jerry Kill means that he needs 4 recruiting classes startring with '12 to just be remotely competitive, he should start polishing up that resume.
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I'm guessing we're talking about being bowl eligible and going 4-4 in the Big Ten.
 

If The Shoe Fits We Need To Wear It!

BleedGopher said:
"Kill also said he has 63 players they have to check on daily to make sure they are going to class. That number should be 15."
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Shows us the "quality" people/players that have been recruited not only during Brewster's regime but also before (even though none of Mason's players left). Even after receiving a D1 football scholarship worth somewhere in the five figures, they're too stupid and immature to even show up for their classes.

This speaks volumes about player behavior and U of M athletic department general culture! You can bet your ass that Jerry Kill is right! I firmly believe that this man doesn't lie! No wonder they couldn't convience Brady Hoke and the others to take this wretched job!
 

4 more + years of rebuilding

I am getting tired of excuses and setting our expectations so low. I get it--according to the coaches and the play on the field we are slow, weak, unconditioned, undisciplined, not football smart, not team players and unmotivated to name a few.

However-- yes it may take 4 + years to get the entire roster off campus, but I am assuming there are plenty of good kids on the team who with proper coaching can be very good players. I am not buying the built in waiver of 4-5 years before being turnaround. If we go back to back to back big ten tears of 1 win or less that should not cut it with anyone. We need gradual improvement seen both in the performance as well as the win column each year
 

4four4 said:
If some people don't like what is going on here maybe they should stop following the team.
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That's not nearly as fun as pissing and moaning every time the coach speaks and answers the same questions that he is asked every week. You would think by now the media in this town would be a little more creative with their interviews.
 



True, but you're also assuming that he has no idea about the effect of what he's saying. He may very well view airing out the dirty laundry as essential to changing the culture of the program. And like I said in an earlier post, in a season that is going this badly, it can certainly be argued that the words can't make it much worse.
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GoAUpher kind of hits on it here but I think most of you are forgetting that Coach Kill has played this "start the program all over" game a couple times before. He has said seeing what a person does when facing adversity tells a lot about the person and the staff has said they want tougher guys. Now is not the time to kiss the players arses - it's time to kick arse. Call out the team in the media, play the youngsters ahead of the lazy vets, make them all go to class - dump all you can on them this first season. It's a throwaway year so pile the adversity on and see who bucks up and see who whines and quits.

Football mentality is to dog a player so that he works twice as hard to improve. Didn't any of you guys play football for an old-time coach like that? A coach that was always chewing out somebody, to see what the player was made of and also to piss them off so much that they'd go out dominate.

I think Coach Kill knows exactly what he is doing and saying. It's all calculated to make life miserable for the players so the coaches can see who fights and who quits. And if he didn't make it extra tough, he'd have a much harder time getting the quitters to leave the program. That is the main goal of this season - getting the quitters/cancers out of the program to make more room for his harder working, tougher recruits.
 

Maroon92 said:
I am getting tired of excuses and setting our expectations so low. I get it--according to the coaches and the play on the field we are slow, weak, unconditioned, undisciplined, not football smart, not team players and unmotivated to name a few.

However-- yes it may take 4 + years to get the entire roster off campus, but I am assuming there are plenty of good kids on the team who with proper coaching can be very good players. I am not buying the built in waiver of 4-5 years before being turnaround. If we go back to back to back big ten tears of 1 win or less that should not cut it with anyone. We need gradual improvement seen both in the performance as well as the win column each year
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LOL we should've hired a coach who said he was going to bring us to Rose Bowls. Derp. There's no satisfying anyone.

Our society's demand of instant gratification is maddening. The only way we can fix this is fast is steroids and SEC boosters. Don't like it? Watch some SEC footbaw. Gophers ain't changin' any way but the right way, and much like the honey badger, Jerry Kill doesn't give a *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# about what you think.
 

FrozenGopher- Nobody is looking for instant gratification, things have gotten significantly worse not better. We've seen some of the worst football ever played by a Gopher team and could possibly surpass 1983 as the worst season in Gopher history.

I am sick of seeing these posts claiming the Gophers are doing something the "right way" or that claim Jerry Kill has X,Y, or Z intangible attributes with certainty.
 

Did you know like 90% of big ten coaches who have won big ten titles won them within their first 4 years of being in the league? I don't remember the exact percentage.
 




This thread definitely shows that there is still a lot of interest in football at the U. I am also in the boat that thinks Kill is making this year tough on all of his players to help weed out those that do not put forth the effort expected by the coaches. The end result is the brutal play from the young players with little to no college experience, players playing new positions and players learning yet another new system.

If you pay attention to the "experts" on college football the Gophers were picked dead last in nearly every prediction. This does not excuse the poor execution and little improvement in play. What it does show is a need for more patience with the program.
 

So if Jerry doesn't want to have any pressure to win for 3 or 4 years, shouldnt he be giving back a portion of his $1mm check? He basically wants a 4 year guaranteed contact that is independent of the only thing that ultimately matters for a head coach, wins and losses. If we are all going to have to shell out to watch what we are being told will be a bad to terrible team for the next 2 or 3 years, I would like Jerry to share our economic pain.
 

AgonyTrain said:
So if Jerry doesn't want to have any pressure to win for 3 or 4 years, shouldnt he be giving back a portion of his $1mm check? He basically wants a 4 year guaranteed contact that is independent of the only thing that ultimately matters for a head coach, wins and losses. If we are all going to have to shell out to watch what we are being told will be a bad to terrible team for the next 2 or 3 years, I would like Jerry to share our economic pain.
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Yes, cause that's the way a coaching contract works. If you lose, you give money back. OKAY.
 



Rosemountian said:
Did you know like 90% of big ten coaches who have won big ten titles won them within their first 4 years of being in the league? I don't remember the exact percentage.
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Yep, year 4 seems to be the make or break year for a new coach. Doesn't mean a championship is required by then, but there definitely needs to be a lot of signs of improvement by then.
 

AgonyTrain said:
So if Jerry doesn't want to have any pressure to win for 3 or 4 years, shouldnt he be giving back a portion of his $1mm check? He basically wants a 4 year guaranteed contact that is independent of the only thing that ultimately matters for a head coach, wins and losses. If we are all going to have to shell out to watch what we are being told will be a bad to terrible team for the next 2 or 3 years, I would like Jerry to share our economic pain.
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Then I guess no matter whom our coach is, they will have to coach for free. Looks like my former Pee Wee football coach will have to take over.

Seriously, this post makes my brain hurt.
 

KILL NEEDS TO STOP TALKING AND JUST COACH OUR GOPHS TO A 7-5 SEASON!!! NO MORE TALKY, MORE FOOTBALL!!

How dare coach Kill answer questions about what's going on with the program and how dare he NEVER take blame!!!

/sarcasm off

Yeah, you trolls sound exactly like that. I pity your inability to comprehend college football.
 

AgonyTrain said:
So if Jerry doesn't want to have any pressure to win for 3 or 4 years, shouldnt he be giving back a portion of his $1mm check? He basically wants a 4 year guaranteed contact that is independent of the only thing that ultimately matters for a head coach, wins and losses. If we are all going to have to shell out to watch what we are being told will be a bad to terrible team for the next 2 or 3 years, I would like Jerry to share our economic pain.
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If you don't like it don't watch. It is pretty simple.
 

I need to preface this by saying that I am under no delusion that, by any means, we resemble a "good" football team and that I have debated as to whether or not to even post the following observation..................

A few years ago, I read a book entitled "Good to Great", written by Jim Collins. In essence, it is a business-model book on leadership and factors that separate companies who moved from being a Good Company to a Great One.

I have noticed in following pressers, actions, etc. of Coach Kill, that I he seems to incorporate some of its strategies / characteristics. Among them are:

1) First Who… Then What - "Getting the Right People On The Bus"
Collins says, “People are not your most important asset. The right people are.” He uses the analogy of a bus driver to while describing how to create a winning team within your organization. He recommends that you first get the right people on the bus, and then you get the wrong people off the bus, then the right people in the right seats, and then figure out where you want to drive that bus. Hire people with characteristics you cannot easily instill. Focus on who you are paying, not how. He also recommends analyzing someone’s character, work ethic, intelligence, and dedication to their values before deeply analyzing credentials and practical skills.

2) Confront the Brutal Facts - tough to do when people are beyond starvation for a consistent winner
Collins found that companies that made the leap from good to great, had a consistent belief in their ability to succeed in the end.

3) A Culture of Discipline - sound familiar?
Hire (in this case, recruit) people who are disciplined in their own right. The second you need to manage someone, you have made a hiring (recruiting) mistake. Manage systems, not people. Collins believes this is superior to managing people because:

When you have disciplined people, you do not need hierarchy. When you have disciplined thought, you do not need bureaucracy. When you have disciplined action, you do not need excessive controls.

Collins contends that “Good to Great” transformations never happen all at once. They are the result of years of persistence. It might look dramatic and revolutionary from the outside, but on the inside it is more of an organic development process.

Like many of you, I have found myself very frustrated this season. Having said that, I am trying to keep it all in perspective. I do believe we are in a process of getting the right people on the bus for our program. And, as tough as it may be to watch the process unfold, I still believe we can be great again! Go Gophers!

Buck
 



Awesome post, Buck. Absolutely fantastic. I've frequently told people, my boss included, that HIRING people is the most important activity that we undertake. Surround yourself with good people and you're in great shape to succeed.

The list you stated include some concepts that I would suspect some people are going to have a very difficult time grasping (Barn Burner comes to mind).
 

Buck's post makes far too much sense. We need Art, etc., here to show us that we are being far too realistic and that a business model would NEVER work for college football. Hope this is Kill's plan and it works out, I'm ok with a throwaway season, or even two, if it means long term success.

Good post Buck.
 

frozengopher said:
Buck's post makes far too much sense. We need Art, etc., here to show us that we are being far too realistic and that a business model would NEVER work for college football. Hope this is Kill's plan and it works out, I'm ok with a throwaway season, or even two, if it means long term success.

Good post Buck.
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Well, business plans don't necessarily work in college football. Like what that MMM guy always said was not applicable to college football.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
I'm not worried about recruiting. That will take care of itself.

Kill and staff will get the current roster playing disciplined football and executing the offense by next year more than likely. Disciplined football and solid execution with the current guys on the roster will bring moderate success; that success will lead to better recruiting; better recruiting will lead to a higher level of success, etc.

Discipline and better execution will make up for a lot of any current deficiencies in athletic ability and talent, which I really think we'll start to see next fall. Two full offseasons with the staff, a weeding out of a few players, a better understanding of expectations, another year for the younger players to develop physically, etc is all I expect to see some real results on the field (scoreboard results notwithstanding).

Recruiting will take care of itself over time. If they find a handful (6-8) of "diamonds in the rough" during these initial lean years, they'll be well on their way. It looks like they were already somewhat successful at doing that with last year's crop; Moulton, M. Jones, Amaefula, Crawford-Tufts, Cockran, Shortell, Thompson, Wells (some committed before Kill, but all true FR).

By 2013, 5-7 players on the O-line will need to have stepped up significantly for everything to fall into place; 5-7 players among the current group of youngsters: Bjorklund, Bush, Campion, Epping, Ferguson, Gjere, Legania, the McAvoys, and the Olsons.
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Why can't the team play disciplined football and be in shape this year? I've never seen a team take so many stupid penalties, make so many stupid mistakes and walk around with such big bellies. That's not talent and that's not wins, that's discipline. Kill has been on the job ten and a half months, not three weeks, and from the first day he said that he was going to run a disciplined operation. That his players would be in shape, would hustle and wouldn't make stupid mistakes. If he really is "the new sheriff in town," then these are things that he can and should control. I admit that I really believed in his oft stated approach to the job but, when I look at all of the things on the field that he can control, it all sounds like words. I worry that, in his own way, he's not much different than Brewster when it comes to the relationship between words and deeds.
 

zambam said:
Well, business plans don't necessarily work in college football. Like what that MMM guy always said was not applicable to college football.
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That's mostly because MMM is clueless.
 

zambam said:
Well, business plans don't necessarily work in college football. Like what that MMM guy always said was not applicable to college football.
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Ha ha...exactly what I was thinking.
 

jamiche said:
Why can't the team play disciplined football and be in shape this year? I've never seen a team take so many stupid penalties, make so many stupid mistakes and walk around with such big bellies. That's not talent and that's not wins, that's discipline. Kill has been on the job ten and a half months, not three weeks, and from the first day he said that he was going to run a disciplined operation. That his players would be in shape, would hustle and wouldn't make stupid mistakes. If he really is "the new sheriff in town," then these are things that he can and should control. I admit that I really believed in his oft stated approach to the job but, when I look at all of the things on the field that he can control, it all sounds like words. I worry that, in his own way, he's not much different than Brewster when it comes to the relationship between words and deeds.
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This stuff is ultimately on him and he has said as much. But we've never seen stupid penalties like this? C'mon...we saw this stuff all the time very recently. When was that? Under Brewster. When did much of the team build their bad habits? Under Brewster. Breaking bad habits is hard. It doesn't happen magically over 10.5 months, especially when Kill and the staff haven't been allowed to coach the team for over half of that time. It is made harder when you are adding in a new schemes and systems. I'd bet its even harder still when you've got a coach that is challenging you in ways you haven't been challenged before. As Kill has said, it's not the players faults if they are always expecting the other shoe to drop on them because for most of the it has throughout their U of M football experience.

I'm looking to see if the dumb stuff decreases as he continues to play younger guys. We're still seeing it now even with a lot of young guys playing because, well, they're younger guys. I'm hopeful that it will diminish as the season continues and the younger players gain experience (and hopefully) confidence.
 

LongTimeGopher said:
GoAUpher kind of hits on it here but I think most of you are forgetting that Coach Kill has played this "start the program all over" game a couple times before. He has said seeing what a person does when facing adversity tells a lot about the person and the staff has said they want tougher guys. Now is not the time to kiss the players arses - it's time to kick arse. Call out the team in the media, play the youngsters ahead of the lazy vets, make them all go to class - dump all you can on them this first season. It's a throwaway year so pile the adversity on and see who bucks up and see who whines and quits.

Football mentality is to dog a player so that he works twice as hard to improve. Didn't any of you guys play football for an old-time coach like that? A coach that was always chewing out somebody, to see what the player was made of and also to piss them off so much that they'd go out dominate.

I think Coach Kill knows exactly what he is doing and saying. It's all calculated to make life miserable for the players so the coaches can see who fights and who quits. And if he didn't make it extra tough, he'd have a much harder time getting the quitters to leave the program. That is the main goal of this season - getting the quitters/cancers out of the program to make more room for his harder working, tougher recruits.
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+1

I totally agree.
 

Rosemountian said:
Did you know like 90% of big ten coaches who have won big ten titles won them within their first 4 years of being in the league? I don't remember the exact percentage.
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Did you know that Barry Alvarez is one of them and his first three teams finished below .500? My guess is that you'd have fired him after year three.
 

badgergopher said:
Did you know that Barry Alvarez is one of them and his first three teams finished below .500? My guess is that you'd have fired him after year three.
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Whoa there. Rosemountain is actually been pretty darn reasonable and is one of the few people critiquing something besides Kill's pressers (he actually shares what about the schemes and gameplans have bothered him, something I wish more discussion would shift to sometimes). Sharing that stat isn't saying anything about firing or keeping a coach or saying that he's given up on Kill.
 

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