Kill says he needs 4 recruiting classes to break Gophers' culture

[getthemall]

Buck, graet observation. I would have to agree with your post. And I do feel college footbal is a business, so certain business models do apply.

I am going to preface this by saying please excuse me for using analogies from Miami sports. I live here so the information of Miami atheletics is at my fingertips...With that said.....

Gopher Nation is suffering and hungry. In Miami we are suffering and hungry. We will say just about anything if our team isn't producing. I see no one wearing bags over their heads at New Orleans and Detroit like they used to. Also, I know it's hard to lose after you've been on top for such a long time. I don't know nothing at all about brewster, but from what I read, no to positive. The gophers are not going to a bowl this year or next. But next year they will be better. You will have 25 new kids coming in of which already know what is asked of them because Coach Miller makes it 100% CLEAR when he talks to them. He doesn't promise anything out of what he offers; A great education, great city, and if you need help with school, you will get tutoring. He expects from you a hard nose athlete with integrity and a attitude of balls to the wall. You watch, this incoming class will not go 11-0, but I know for sure they will play better than the current squad. To me it doesn't matter what the new coaching staff strategy is. What matters is the group of kids that they inherit has got to put forth effort to accomplish the staff's goal. like them or not. If you do not have the right attitude, I do not care about talent, that goal will not get accomplished. Remember when Northwestern was a laughing stock,a bunch of smartboys who can't play football. Attitude adjustment: Smartboys CAN play football. Do you know why everybody hates U of Miami? In the 80's and early 90's, it was their invincible ATTITUDE. Whoever they played, they went in knowing they were going to beat you, ATTITUDE.

Jerry Kill and his staff will give us that back. I know he will. Damn, that F#C&ER is a kidney cancer survivor and he is coaching, definitely the wrong profession when you need to be stress free. He is OLD school. A lot of kids are not. He tells you what your son is going to get, he doesn't ask what do you expect. I talked to him one time and talk to Coach Miller on several occasions. They are as real as it gets in this profession. I do not pick a school to go to the NFL. Don't get me wrong, it wouild be awesome. We pick a school based on education. And coach kill and Miller are the ones that will take care of that for my son. I know my son will have a better attitude when they are done with him.

Once again, trust me when I tell you, these guys will get the job done and make us a happy bunch of fans. I know you guys are living the heartbreak of Gopher football. I can't really say how you really feel and all because I do not live there. But 1 thing we have in common, we want competitive winning football. Trust me again, when I tell you, this staff will get it done.

 

[dbush]

As my late uncle always said, " Attitude is Everything."

 

[mplsbadger]

Whoa there. Rosemountain is actually been pretty darn reasonable and is one of the few people critiquing something besides Kill's pressers (he actually shares what about the schemes and gameplans have bothered him, something I wish more discussion would shift to sometimes). Sharing that stat isn't saying anything about firing or keeping a coach or saying that he's given up on Kill.

Fair enough. I'll retract the second part of the post.

This is such a polarizing thread it's a little depressing.

 

[In IT for the ∫e ͯ]

Buck, graet observation. I would have to agree with your post. And I do feel college footbal is a business, so certain business models do apply.

I am going to preface this by saying please excuse me for using analogies from Miami sports. I live here so the information of Miami atheletics is at my fingertips...With that said.....

Gopher Nation is suffering and hungry. In Miami we are suffering and hungry. We will say just about anything if our team isn't producing. I see no one wearing bags over their heads at New Orleans and Detroit like they used to. Also, I know it's hard to lose after you've been on top for such a long time. I don't know nothing at all about brewster, but from what I read, no to positive. The gophers are not going to a bowl this year or next. But next year they will be better. You will have 25 new kids coming in of which already know what is asked of them because Coach Miller makes it 100% CLEAR when he talks to them. He doesn't promise anything out of what he offers; A great education, great city, and if you need help with school, you will get tutoring. He expects from you a hard nose athlete with integrity and a attitude of balls to the wall. You watch, this incoming class will not go 11-0, but I know for sure they will play better than the current squad. To me it doesn't matter what the new coaching staff strategy is. What matters is the group of kids that they inherit has got to put forth effort to accomplish the staff's goal. like them or not. If you do not have the right attitude, I do not care about talent, that goal will not get accomplished. Remember when Northwestern was a laughing stock,a bunch of smartboys who can't play football. Attitude adjustment: Smartboys CAN play football. Do you know why everybody hates U of Miami? In the 80's and early 90's, it was their invincible ATTITUDE. Whoever they played, they went in knowing they were going to beat you, ATTITUDE.

Jerry Kill and his staff will give us that back. I know he will. Damn, that F#C&ER is a kidney cancer survivor and he is coaching, definitely the wrong profession when you need to be stress free. He is OLD school. A lot of kids are not. He tells you what your son is going to get, he doesn't ask what do you expect. I talked to him one time and talk to Coach Miller on several occasions. They are as real as it gets in this profession. I do not pick a school to go to the NFL. Don't get me wrong, it wouild be awesome. We pick a school based on education. And coach kill and Miller are the ones that will take care of that for my son. I know my son will have a better attitude when they are done with him.

Once again, trust me when I tell you, these guys will get the job done and make us a happy bunch of fans. I know you guys are living the heartbreak of Gopher football. I can't really say how you really feel and all because I do not live there. But 1 thing we have in common, we want competitive winning football. Trust me again, when I tell you, this staff will get it done.

I don't think Gopher Nation is Hungry, I think it is Starving.

 

[Rosemountian]

Did you know that Barry Alvarez is one of them and his first three teams finished below .500? My guess is that you'd have fired him after year three.

His first 3 teams looked like they were well coached from what I can remember about them. They looked like they were always giving an effort and like they had a clue what they were trying to do offensively. I wouldnt have fired Barry just like I wouldn't fire kill. Gotta give him time. Barry's team was a game below .500 in his second and 3rd year and he improved his big ten record each year. If kill goes 1-11 or 2-10 in years 2 and 3 maybe you can start thinking about a departure before year 4, but we aren't at this point yet.

Just because I think kill has done a horrible job doesn't mean I would say fire him. I think if you asked kill what kind of a job he's done he'd tell you horrible as well.

 

[THE Chitown Gopher]

I do not understand what some of you are saying. My son is a 2012 commit who will graduate early from Miami Central. Only talked to Coach Kill and Coach Miller on the phone. My son has met Coach Miller in person. I have seen the USC, NDSU, and Purdue games. The team lacks discipline and b@ll$. I believe him. When you talk to Kill and Miller, you get nothing but the truth. It looks like some of the previous recruits were signed just to give away scholarships. From what I see in the incoming recruiting class, it's off on the right foot. Just to see who Coach Miller offered at Central shows me what and who the are looking for. They are looking for character first. if a player has character, then he has heart, balls and the will to win. My son is a DT who got offered by MSU, Wake, WVU, W. Michigan, and FIU. Now U of Miami is heavily after him. But my son says, every time he talks to Coach Miller, he feels his sincerity. It will take 3-5 years just like it did when Butch Davis took over at U of Miami. And, Butch Davis took over a team with a 2 year probation. Mario Cristobal, FIU's coach took 4 years and look at FIU now. They are in the SunBelt, which definitely ain't B1G, but a lot more local recruits are noticing FIU.

I feel Coach Kill is on the right track. Our Gophers are not going to change in 1 year even if you had Jim Harbaugh coaching. He inherited a lazy team which can be considered lazy when you have to babysit 63 athletes, which is embarrasing.

One final note, by 2013 season I feel we will compete. By 2015, UM will not be considered the same way they are today. Damn Kills old school is ranked in the top 25, NIU. Give him the chance. He has proven he can do it.

Great insight from the front lines, thank you for the post, support and belief in Coach Kill and the Gophers! (also congrats on a great start to the season-enjoy)

I do not think Kill is going around Maturi to the Pres, it is simply part of a conversation they had together. No need to read into it. It is good for Kill to have that access, but should not be viewed as knock on Joel.

It is sad and amazing that there are that many (63?!) players (adults) who need to be babysat. Purge the lazy bums out sooner rather than let them poison the others. Kudos to Joel for ending the country club...errr....Brewster era.

 

[KD6-3.7]

has anyone complaining about the lack of discipline in this thread ever gone into a situation in which an organization has established a culture of indiscipline?

because if you have, you would know that it is not easy to turn that kind of culture around.

people are saying things about him having nine months and having spring and fall ball and that this should have been enough time to instill discipline into brewster's mess.

the only way to change the culture is to have 65 kids who are willing to become disciplined (which i would find startling) or to turn over the population that is breeding and encouraging the indiscipline and bring in people who are willing.

in that sense, four recruiting classes sounds about right.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Why can't the team play disciplined football and be in shape this year? I've never seen a team take so many stupid penalties, make so many stupid mistakes and walk around with such big bellies. That's not talent and that's not wins, that's discipline. Kill has been on the job ten and a half months, not three weeks, and from the first day he said that he was going to run a disciplined operation. That his players would be in shape, would hustle and wouldn't make stupid mistakes. If he really is "the new sheriff in town," then these are things that he can and should control. I admit that I really believed in his oft stated approach to the job but, when I look at all of the things on the field that he can control, it all sounds like words. I worry that, in his own way, he's not much different than Brewster when it comes to the relationship between words and deeds.

Totally agree for the most part. Even at this early juncture, I expected more in THAT area. The most logical explanation is the same response I would have for most of the other problems right now; it's easy to mistake one or two penalties/missed assignments for team-wide problems when all it takes is one or two guys with their head up their tail pipe to blow the whole thing up.

I also agree with bigtenchamps1899; difficult to change a culture of indiscipline in a short period of time. I believe he'll get it done for the plain simple reason that he's done it before. This staff has done it before, and they've done it more than once.

These are my expectations over the next couple years;

> Between now and next year, there could be a minor weeding out; some players that are here now may not be in the spring.

> Next season, I expect a SIGNIFICANT leap forward in the area of discipline and execution; it may not COMPLETELY translate into success on the field, but I expect to see a much more polished product

> 2013, I actually expect them to be extremely competitive and for a few main reasons; first and foremost, the current group of youngsters on the O-line will all be upper classmen and many will have over 15-20 starts under their belt. That fact in and of itself would be enough for me to be optimistic. Same for the defensive line, this year's underclassmen will be seasoned veterans by then.

Whoever the QB is will also likely have a lot of snaps under their belt and will also much more closely mirror the type of player Kill wants at the position. Even at the lower levels he's coached before, I'd almost be shocked if Kill had LESS to work with for QB's than he has right now; a junior with serious accuracy and decision-making issues and a true freshman, along with a couple of 4-year clipboard holders.

My two cents anyway...

 

[Ole]

I just can't help remembering how disciplined and sharp NIU was under Kill last season. To me this is the best reason for hope. Obviously he had gotten to a point in year 3 where the kids were mentally tough, knew exactly what they had to execute, and had been conditioned in the systems to the point where the coaches could focus on gameplanning and scheming. They absolutely rolled the MAC until the championship game, and then without either coordinator or Kill they dismantled Fresno St in their bowl game.

On the other hand, this squad has seemingly made key mistake after key mistake, mental breakdowns, it's obvious the players haven't picked up the schemes yet, and there are numerous injuries and overmatched, underconditioned athletes. I can't help but think that with time our squad will take the shape of that well oiled machine NIU had peaked at last Dec.

 

[50PoundHead]

This stuff is ultimately on him and he has said as much. But we've never seen stupid penalties like this? C'mon...we saw this stuff all the time very recently. When was that? Under Brewster. When did much of the team build their bad habits? Under Brewster. Breaking bad habits is hard. It doesn't happen magically over 10.5 months, especially when Kill and the staff haven't been allowed to coach the team for over half of that time. It is made harder when you are adding in a new schemes and systems. I'd bet its even harder still when you've got a coach that is challenging you in ways you haven't been challenged before. As Kill has said, it's not the players faults if they are always expecting the other shoe to drop on them because for most of the it has throughout their U of M football experience.

I'm looking to see if the dumb stuff decreases as he continues to play younger guys. We're still seeing it now even with a lot of young guys playing because, well, they're younger guys. I'm hopeful that it will diminish as the season continues and the younger players gain experience (and hopefully) confidence.

The penchant for stupid penalties goes back way further than Brewster. I can't remember how many times a first-and-goal from the 6 turned into a 4th-and-goal from the 25 during the Gutekunst regime. This has been an on-going problem.

Wahoo, the retention problem has also been something prevalent in the program for the last couple of decades, regardless of who is coaching.

I'm not defending Brewster here. His record speaks for itself. Just saying his predecessors weren't all that successful in these key areas as well.

If it weren't for the lack of discipline, I wouldn't utter a single negative comment regarding Kill. The team just looks totally out of sync and making a lot of the same really stupid mistakes (five men in the backfield, holding on kick returns) over and over again.

 

[GoAUpher]

If it weren't for the lack of discipline, I wouldn't utter a single negative comment regarding Kill. The team just looks totally out of sync and making a lot of the same really stupid mistakes (five men in the backfield, holding on kick returns) over and over again.

I'm actually wondering if a lot of angst would be gone if the stupid (and really annoying) stuff wasn't there. I'll be honest, one area I was really optimistic about (probably too much so) was the elimination of the dumb crap. And, thinking it through, it seems to me like this is the area that probably makes Kill's public comments/explanations sound like their just excuses. And that's because he has a track record of teams that don't make dumb mistakes.

I think I bought into the idea (stupid in hindsight) that an experienced staff would just make that sort of thing disappear. I ignored my own experience of playing with discipline challenged teammates and how even after 2 years under new coaches who stressed the little things they'd still revert to bad habits when things got hard or when they thought they could get away with it.

I'm still pretty calm about it because his history shows that his teams become very disciplined as time moves on. That's not to say he isn't responsible. While I doubt he could eliminate the problem, it's still worse then it should be and his public comments suggest he's unhappy about it and aware that he's not meeting expectations there. Like I said, I'm hopeful that more experience for the younger players means less stupid mistakes as the season progresses. That likely won't translate into wins sadly.

 

[Monty519]

I just can't help remembering how disciplined and sharp NIU was under Kill last season. To me this is the best reason for hope. Obviously he had gotten to a point in year 3 where the kids were mentally tough, knew exactly what they had to execute, and had been conditioned in the systems to the point where the coaches could focus on gameplanning and scheming. They absolutely rolled the MAC until the championship game, and then without either coordinator or Kill they dismantled Fresno St in their bowl game.

On the other hand, this squad has seemingly made key mistake after key mistake, mental breakdowns, it's obvious the players haven't picked up the schemes yet, and there are numerous injuries and overmatched, underconditioned athletes. I can't help but think that with time our squad will take the shape of that well oiled machine NIU had peaked at last Dec.

I have little doubt in my mind that in the coming years, we will not be complaining about discipline or lack of effort from this team. Right now it's rough, but at very minimum, I'm guessing those are issues we just aren't even gonna have to sweat.

 

[RodentRampage]

I admit I was hoping for more discipline out of the Gophers. But realistically, getting other people to be disciplined is tough. A coach can make players practice, can drag them to classes, but while the coach and stress and preach discipline, a coach can't make players be disciplined. With recruiting, a coach can evaluate how much self-discipline a potential recruit has, and new recruits aren't going to have bad habits that are hard to break.

 

[50PoundHead]

I'm actually wondering if a lot of angst would be gone if the stupid (and really annoying) stuff wasn't there. I'll be honest, one area I was really optimistic about (probably too much so) was the elimination of the dumb crap. And, thinking it through, it seems to me like this is the area that probably makes Kill's public comments/explanations sound like their just excuses. And that's because he has a track record of teams that don't make dumb mistakes.

I think I bought into the idea (stupid in hindsight) that an experienced staff would just make that sort of thing disappear. I ignored my own experience of playing with discipline challenged teammates and how even after 2 years under new coaches who stressed the little things they'd still revert to bad habits when things got hard or when they thought they could get away with it.

I'm still pretty calm about it because his history shows that his teams become very disciplined as time moves on. That's not to say he isn't responsible. While I doubt he could eliminate the problem, it's still worse then it should be and his public comments suggest he's unhappy about it and aware that he's not meeting expectations there. Like I said, I'm hopeful that more experience for the younger players means less stupid mistakes as the season progresses. That likely won't translate into wins sadly.

Agree 100%. I was also too optimistic as well in thinking that Kill could come in and snap his fingers and the guys would suddenly transform into a technically sound team. I initially thought this was going to be a team that played smart and hard, but still came up short due to physical shortcomings and the change in systems. In other words, I expected a lot of hard fought games that we'd lose by less than ten. But we've been both out-manned and out-played and that's where my disappointment lies. I don't like losing, but I have less of a problem with it when the team has done all it can. There are times this year when it doesn't appear that they have done that.

 

[mnsports1]

I admit I was hoping for more discipline out of the Gophers. But realistically, getting other people to be disciplined is tough. A coach can make players practice, can drag them to classes, but while the coach and stress and preach discipline, a coach can't make players be disciplined. With recruiting, a coach can evaluate how much self-discipline a potential recruit has, and new recruits aren't going to have bad habits that are hard to break.

Bingo!

 

[Tx_Gopher]

Agree 100%. I was also too optimistic as well in thinking that Kill could come in and snap his fingers and the guys would suddenly transform into a technically sound team. I initially thought this was going to be a team that played smart and hard, but still came up short due to physical shortcomings and the change in systems. In other words, I expected a lot of hard fought games that we'd lose by less than ten. But we've been both out-manned and out-played and that's where my disappointment lies. I don't like losing, but I have less of a problem with it when the team has done all it can. There are times this year when it doesn't appear that they have done that.

Exactly.

And then when you express that sentiment, some people around here get all butt-hurt and tell you to get a new team or you're a fair weather fan.

 

[GophersInIowa]

The penchant for stupid penalties goes back way further than Brewster. I can't remember how many times a first-and-goal from the 6 turned into a 4th-and-goal from the 25 during the Gutekunst regime. This has been an on-going problem.

Fans, myself included, will always over-exaggerate the present and under-exaggerate (is that even a word/phrase?) the past.

"We make more dumb penalties now than ever before."
"This is the worst team ever."

 

[Rosemountian]

It will take a long time to get an entire culture change, 100% correct.

There should be at least minimal improvement almost instantly.

has anyone complaining about the lack of discipline in this thread ever gone into a situation in which an organization has established a culture of indiscipline?

because if you have, you would know that it is not easy to turn that kind of culture around.

people are saying things about him having nine months and having spring and fall ball and that this should have been enough time to instill discipline into brewster's mess.

the only way to change the culture is to have 65 kids who are willing to become disciplined (which i would find startling) or to turn over the population that is breeding and encouraging the indiscipline and bring in people who are willing.

in that sense, four recruiting classes sounds about right.

 

[BHgrappler]

I wonder how many recruits are going to give Kill a big F U when he tells them he's burning their redshirt?

You never were a college athlete were you. If you were, you'd realize that most D1 athletes would do anything possible to play RIGHT NOW! And if they are not willing, then they're probably not the type of individuals we need on this team for the long haul.

 

[gophers141]

Is Kill for real?

Before the season and now after every embarrassing loss Kill makes sure to remind the Gopher Nation just how bad his current players are. He was expecting to get blown out at USC where instead his terrible players gave themselves a shot to win only to come back and lose the next week to New Mexico St. The coaches response for one of the most embarrassing losses in the program's history: "we underestimated New Mexico St."

How do you underestimate anyone when you repeatedly tell us how bad the players are, doesn't that mean you will go to extreme lengths every week to make sure your team has a chance?

Now Kill is saying he needs 4 recruiting classes to turn this program around? He didn't have 4 programs at UNI or Southern Illinois before things turned around so I am confused.

It feels like more of the time Kill is just trying to make sure he will be collecting his paycheck in 4 years than anything else and I think his coordinators are in way over their heads.

 

[kisarazu]

*gets popcorn*

 

[GophersInIowa]

Before the season and now after every embarrassing loss Kill makes sure to remind the Gopher Nation just how bad his current players are. He was expecting to get blown out at USC where instead his terrible players gave themselves a shot to win only to come back and lose the next week to New Mexico St. The coaches response for one of the most embarrassing losses in the program's history: "we underestimated New Mexico St."

How do you underestimate anyone when you repeatedly tell us how bad the players are, doesn't that mean you will go to extreme lengths every week to make sure your team has a chance?

Now Kill is saying he needs 4 recruiting classes to turn this program around? He didn't have 4 programs at UNI or Southern Illinois before things turned around so I am confused.

It feels like more of the time Kill is just trying to make sure he will be collecting his paycheck in 4 years than anything else and I think his coordinators are in way over their heads.

Here's a suggestion: Listen to the entire press conference and read the entire article next time.

Read this, the entire thing: http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/131676828.html

 

[Ole]

I'll bite 141.

I guess we don't know if he's a for real BIG TEN coach. He's a for real MAC and D1AA coach, and has track records of winning everywhere he's been.

I think you should read his comments from after practice last night and Ithink in the Strib article today. He clarifies that he expects progress in those 4 years and if not would fire himself, he doesn't expect to start every season like this and have 1 win a year for 4 years.

IMO he's for real in that he has taken some dwelling issues in the football program and the U and brought them to light in order to address them head on.
No BS, no hiding bad problems, here's what we've got, I am working to fix problems A, B, and C, even though most fans thought our only issue was C.

I like his recruiting, it does nothing for star watchers, but he's gathered a group of seemingly versatile and tough kids to build with.

His schemes and teaching methods have worked in the past, he may just need time to implement them here fully, I expect neither QB has been exposed to even half the playbook, and the D has to shake off the very different schemes and techniques of Cosgrove vs Claeys, they are polar opposite theories of defense.

It hurts right now, its torture, it sucks. At some point we're going to have to come to a point where we allow ourselves to trust in the coaching staff and President Kaler, neither of which have been here long, but the point is we have a long ways to go and we have an established and experienced coaching staff in place for the next 4-5 years. We'll find out looking back then if Kill is for real.

 

[GoAUpher]

Exactly.

And then when you express that sentiment, some people around here get all butt-hurt and tell you to get a new team or you're a fair weather fan.

No, people have a problem with freakouts like the fine one just added by Gophers141. And I suspect that the same is true of any other rational person here.

50PoundHead just summed up my feelings as well. My exact hope and expectation for this season was "I expected a lot of hard fought games that we'd lose by less than ten." Difference is that like 50PoundHead, I'm capable of expressing disappointment in a fashion that doesn't include crazy doom and gloom or the words "given up on Kill".

 

[GoAUpher]

I will also bite.

He was expecting to get blown out at USC

Really? I missed that. You have a link? I mean, I'm not sure how you hyperlink to a thought that was never expressed in public anywhere (unless your mind reading ability also comes with a hyperlink app). But please give it a shot.

Now Kill is saying he needs 4 recruiting classes to turn this program around? He didn't have 4 programs at UNI or Southern Illinois before things turned around so I am confused.

I'm confused too. You think he can have more than one program at a time? I hope you mean years. And even if you do, what they heck do you think he means by "turn around" anyway? Do you think he's actually saying that 1 win seasons are the norm until 4 years from now?

It feels like more of the time Kill is just trying to make sure he will be collecting his paycheck in 4 years than anything else and I think his coordinators are in way over their heads.

Yes, a man whose who life is built around working hard up until this point will suddenly change his ways and become a lazy slacker who makes excuses to collect a fat paycheck for 4 seasons. That makes a lot of sense. You are so wise 141. I can't wait to see what you dream up next.

 

[Arbogast]

Gophers141,
There is no way that is a serious post. Do you do any research at all before you spout off? Go look up SIU's record before and after Kill and tell me why your post sounds absolutely asinine. I'll be waiting.

 

[GoAUpher]

Gophers141,
There is no way that is a serious post. Do you do any research at all before you spout off? Go look up SIU's record before and after Kill and tell me why your post sounds absolutely asinine. I'll be waiting.

He's either trolling or he just isn't very big on facts and reason. 7 posts in and he pulls out junk like that? Not a good sign. But it was too deliciously silly to pass on fisking it.

 

[AgonyTrain]

Then I guess no matter whom our coach is, they will have to coach for free. Looks like my former Pee Wee football coach will have to take over.

Seriously, this post makes my brain hurt.

I think the part giving you a headache is that big straw man you built. Never said anywhere he should work for free. I am guessing that when he was hired he didn't mention needing 5 years before getting this program on it's feet (first I heard of a period that long was the twitter that started this thread) to be competitive (not talking about winning 8 or 9 games here - just being competitive in games). Two or three years I can understand - five seems a much. Since Jerry wants less risk if being fired and more time to get this program competitive, I think his contract should reflect that. Lower performance measures and less risk generally equates to lower reward / compensation. The Indiana coach has basically then same contract, inherited a horrible program as well, and I haven't heard him asking for five years to field a competitive team (if I have missed something let me know). Is there a point at which you would say Jerry is asking for too much time? 6 years? 7?

In any event Kill needs the time to install his program but 5 years to field a competitive team seems a bit much to me. Since Alvarez and ferentz are referenced all the time, did either of them say it was going to take 5 years to be competitive before their first year even ended? Maybe I an too impatient or maybe Jerry got my hopes up, but it seems that every weeks on field debacle is followed by shriller excuses and ever longer timeframes until respectability. Sorry if that makes me a troll

 

[RodentRampage]

In any event Kill needs the time to install his program but 5 years to field a competitive team seems a bit much to me. Since Alvarez and ferentz are referenced all the time, did either of them say it was going to take 5 years to be competitive before their first year even ended? Maybe I an too impatient or maybe Jerry got my hopes up, but it seems that every weeks on field debacle is followed by shriller excuses and ever longer timeframes until respectability. Sorry if that makes me a troll

The straw man is yours. Kill didn't say it would take 5 years to be competitive. But, by all means, keep making up whatever you like.

 

[Unregistered User]

The straw man is yours. Kill didn't say it would take 5 years to be competitive. But, by all means, keep making up whatever you like.

And what does he (Kill) mean by competitive? Competitive in each and every game, or competitive for the B10 title?

I believe the latter. For whatever time-frame.