Kill says he needs 4 recruiting classes to break Gophers' culture

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Iceland12 said:
That's not the problem GoAUpher. His press conference last week was great and people whined that he didn't rip his players enough. To believe this latest outburst you'd have to believe he was either the most naive guy in college football when he took the job or his "straight shooting" ended when things got real bad.

Me, I think he looked at his e-mails and peoples reaction to his last press conference and realized that ripping the players that he didn't recruit would go over not just well but "big time". Judging from the reactions here he was right.
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My memory might very well be going and I tend not to remember the pressers real well (just general stuff from each week) but I believe the same "Kill tosses kids under the bus" concerns were being raised last week too in response to the things he was saying. Is it just the level of detail that concerns you (though I'll note again that while "tossing the kids under the bus" Kill continues to be, as he has always been, VERY GENERAL and broad with this statements so as not to call out any individual athlete in a negative way).
 


Kuato Lives! said:
We were told when he was hired and prior to the season that there were academic issues. I get that and do not doubt it. It just reeks of deflection when after each demoralizing loss we are fed more and more alarmingly bad academic news that gets worse every week.
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It could also reek of a bad situation that isn't getting better like he hoped. Depends on the lens you look at it through.
 




I suspect that Jewhan Edwards was more or less typical of a lot of players on this team, from what I've heard. This type of player has been common at the U going back at least to the late Wacker era from guys I know who either played, or are close to the program.

If you're going to recruit guys who have no interest in school, at least get guys who can PLAY like Clem did. (and don't get caught either, like Clem's team did.)
 

discochris said:
If you're going to recruit guys who have no interest in school, at least get guys who can PLAY like Clem did. (and don't get caught either, like Clem's team did.)
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So your advice to the U's coaches is "cheat better than Clem Haskins did"?
 

GoAUpher said:
So your advice to the U's coaches is "cheat better than Clem Haskins did"?
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Well, if Brewster brought in a bunch of academically suspect guys, which it appears he did, I would not be surprised if there were strings pulled to get them into the U and to keep them eligible.

I'd be shocked if that didn't go on at about 97% of FBS programs (maybe not the Stanfords of the world, and certainly not the Service Academies), but most. I know for a fact that there is a fair amount of looking the other way on drug tests, or there was up through Mason's teams. If you're going to break the rules, at least win games.
 

GoAUpher said:
My memory might very well be going and I tend not to remember the pressers real well (just general stuff from each week) but I believe the same "Kill tosses kids under the bus" concerns were being raised last week too in response to the things he was saying. Is it just the level of detail that concerns you (though I'll note again that while "tossing the kids under the bus" Kill continues to be, as he has always been, VERY GENERAL and broad with this statements so as not to call out any individual athlete in a negative way).
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Take a look again. http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1493

He handled this well IMO. He took responsibility again and again. Says the players have been "beaten down". Says there are reasons for that. Only a couple of lines lay the blame, rightly so.

Those lines are the ones people focused on. :banghead::banghead::banghead:
 



GopherGod said:
He can be up front with the recruits. It still doesn't mean that as the gophers continue to lose and other winning programs come in and offer them the ability to compete for championships and play in bowl games that some of them aren't going to reconsider, especially the out of state players. When I hear Kill say things like needing at least 4 recruiting cycles publicly, that is essentially telling your next few classes of recruits that there is slim to no possibility for them in their college careers to play for anything of significance. This is likely true, but you don't need to point it out to a kid you are trying to recruit that has stars in his eyes.
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Derp. Pretty sure that academics and the case for immediate playing time is going to be far more important to any/all recruits out there. The case for using national title/bowl game opportunities is simply a way for two contender type teams to recruit against each other. We won't be seeing any of that soon.

I think we can all say with great confidence that a kid goes to play FBS football with the hopes of an NFL career in the future, and if not that, one hell of an education that is going to hopefully get them a guaranteed job after they graduate. However, playing time trumps all, as that's more tv time to show off to potential scouts, and we have TONS of that for the immediate future.

We aren't Valdosta St. We are in the Big Ten. If you've got the abilities, you will get time on the field, and important people will notice you.

That's what I would be selling at this point.
 

For the first time I am going to write this. This falls on Maturi and he must now go.


If you read between the lines, Kill talks about how he has the president's backing. He stated that it wasn't the players fault for not going to class last year. He has talked about how the school needs better academic support. This is all on the administration for allowing Brewster to get these kids in school and not helping academically.
 

I've never seen a coach publicly destroy his team and his players so much in such a short time. I'm sure there are plenty of issues to solve but this is just weird.
 

Kuato Lives! said:
I wonder how many recruits are going to give Kill a big F U when he tells them he's burning their redshirt?
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I doubt anyone them will.

Football players recruited to a BCS progam have confidence in themselves and want to play. If you read their interviews, either when they have verballed or when they have signed, most say they want to play right away but will do anything it takes to make the team better.

In other words, you don't have a clue, basically.
 



Why do the kids need rainbows and sparkles blown up their ass constantly? Real life has obstacles that you have to fight to get past. If somebody tells you that you aren't good enough or aren't working hard enough well dammit you better do what it takes to prove them wrong or life is going to *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# all over you when times get tough.

Oh also fire Maturi
 

GoAUpher said:
My memory might very well be going and I tend not to remember the pressers real well (just general stuff from each week) but I believe the same "Kill tosses kids under the bus" concerns were being raised last week too in response to the things he was saying. Is it just the level of detail that concerns you (though I'll note again that while "tossing the kids under the bus" Kill continues to be, as he has always been, VERY GENERAL and broad with this statements so as not to call out any individual athlete in a negative way).
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I'll step in here, not to speak for Iceland, but I was among the first to criticize Kill after last week's press confernce (and got hammered for it). And I agree with much of what Iceland has written here.

For me, it's not so much "throwing the players under the bus," although I know others are concerned about that. For me it's more Kill's growing focus on and commitment to telling us all how high this mountain is. Yes, he has talked about this consistently since he arrived. But in my estimation, he's talking about it more, and I do think the growing level of detail matters, too. He used to sum up those problems in a sentence or two. Now it's the focus of every public event. It all sounds very defensive to me, and he has sounded more defensive with each loss.

The result is that it will wear on fans. People really liked Brewster's optimism until the losses mounted. Then it sounded hollow, and he became a coach with no substance. Now people really like Kill's "straight shooting," but he becomes more and more of a "shooter" with each loss, and before long people will think he's just making excuses. And for all those who think "I don't want to hear the truth," that's not it. I've been a Gopher football fan for 40 years, and I can tell you that there's not much new here. It's the way the coach handles it -- and how the fans react to that -- that changes.

Every college coach looks forward to having four full recruiting classes. Every coach of a program in turmoil wants it even more. Why say it? Saying it SOUNDS like, "Don't judge me for five years." I'm sure he doesn't mean that, but that's how it sounds. And the more he speaks lately, the more he sounds like that. It's not just one "oops, shouldn't have said that" line here and there. It's constant now.
 

Sumtimegophs said:
I doubt anyone them will.

Football players recruited to a BCS progam have confidence in themselves and want to play. If you read their interviews, either when they have verballed or when they have signed, most say they want to play right away but will do anything it takes to make the team better.

In other words, you don't have a clue, basically.
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Right over your head.
 

A while back, Kill stated that the the Team GPA had gone up. I believe (2.85) he was happy
with the improvement The statements regarding the Academics are a little surprising.
 

FireCosgroveGuy said:
I've never seen a coach publicly destroy his team and his players so much in such a short time. I'm sure there are plenty of issues to solve but this is just weird.
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I don't like it, those things should be internal to the program, nothing productive comes from those types of statements.
 

In response to both Iceland and Hates Monikers...

One difference I hadn't been thinking about until now for some reason that is an important one. We're comparing a presser with full coverage to a series of tweets. In the presser, we get the full context including all the questions and answers. Here, we're not only getting only some of what Kill said but we don't know what it was in response to. Perhaps the Dunkers were asking for more details. Just realized it and figured that it'd be worth noting that context given the concern over the increase in "excuses" by Kill.

Fact is, that winning is the only cure to the game of 2nd guessing the coach. As HM notes, the common thread in the tiring of some folks with both Brew's optimism and Kill's tell it like it is style is continued losing. In that regard, I doubt there is anything Kill can say that will be the right thing.
 

jovs said:
I don't like it, those things should be internal to the program, nothing productive comes from those types of statements.
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Nothing productive came from Brew keeping it all quiet either. If things are that messed up the "going public" part of it is the least of the concerns. And if you consider the fact that Kill's goal is to blow up the atmosphere that allowed this stuff to flourish you can see why talking about it would seem like a good way to go. Hiding or not talking about the problems won't make them go away.
 

I attended ten practices during spring and two a day camp. There was never more then a
couple of players wearing brown shirts and being disciplined for skipping class or
committing other infractions.
 

I do not understand what some of you are saying. My son is a 2012 commit who will graduate early from Miami Central. Only talked to Coach Kill and Coach Miller on the phone. My son has met Coach Miller in person. I have seen the USC, NDSU, and Purdue games. The team lacks discipline and b@ll$. I believe him. When you talk to Kill and Miller, you get nothing but the truth. It looks like some of the previous recruits were signed just to give away scholarships. From what I see in the incoming recruiting class, it's off on the right foot. Just to see who Coach Miller offered at Central shows me what and who the are looking for. They are looking for character first. if a player has character, then he has heart, balls and the will to win. My son is a DT who got offered by MSU, Wake, WVU, W. Michigan, and FIU. Now U of Miami is heavily after him. But my son says, every time he talks to Coach Miller, he feels his sincerity. It will take 3-5 years just like it did when Butch Davis took over at U of Miami. And, Butch Davis took over a team with a 2 year probation. Mario Cristobal, FIU's coach took 4 years and look at FIU now. They are in the SunBelt, which definitely ain't B1G, but a lot more local recruits are noticing FIU.

I feel Coach Kill is on the right track. Our Gophers are not going to change in 1 year even if you had Jim Harbaugh coaching. He inherited a lazy team which can be considered lazy when you have to babysit 63 athletes, which is embarrasing.

One final note, by 2013 season I feel we will compete. By 2015, UM will not be considered the same way they are today. Damn Kills old school is ranked in the top 25, NIU. Give him the chance. He has proven he can do it.
 

The problem with Coach Kill's press conferences...

1. He has to say something...with the last two losses in particular, what is he going to say...the players gave a great effort? That would go over well:rolleyes:

2. He and his staff are not the ones out there tackling, running, throwing...you get the point.

3. He can only spin the truth so many ways...truth at times does hurt.

4. People get frustrated when they do not hear what is really going on, look at what happens when they do?

5. A thought crossed my mind that maybe he is wanting to run off some of them...they were completely outclassed by Michigan in every way and even Purdue was able to stomp them...

6. I gotta agree Maturi is more and more out of the loop...

7. Read the column about identity...the first identity is for players to make plays...sort of missing the mark their. I think Kill already has the identity he wants to install, but the players that should be making it happen have not been.

7. In reality, this team has had way to many turnovers in the past 4 years...In hindsight Brewster was thrown under the bus by his various coordinators by them leaving...other then the 1st OC that is...Brewster threw him under.
 

Good to hear another kid interested in coming in early. Although I do think H.S. kids need to enjoy their time in h.s. and be a kid, I think there is no doubt the benefit of having a kid come in for a semester of major D-1 strength and conditioning, as well as spring ball.
 

getthemall said:
I do not understand what some of you are saying. My son is a 2012 commit who will graduate early from Miami Central. Only talked to Coach Kill and Coach Miller on the phone. My son has met Coach Miller in person. I have seen the USC, NDSU, and Purdue games. The team lacks discipline and b@ll$. I believe him. When you talk to Kill and Miller, you get nothing but the truth. It looks like some of the previous recruits were signed just to give away scholarships. From what I see in the incoming recruiting class, it's off on the right foot. Just to see who Coach Miller offered at Central shows me what and who the are looking for. They are looking for character first. if a player has character, then he has heart, balls and the will to win. My son is a DT who got offered by MSU, Wake, WVU, W. Michigan, and FIU. Now U of Miami is heavily after him. But my son says, every time he talks to Coach Miller, he feels his sincerity. It will take 3-5 years just like it did when Butch Davis took over at U of Miami. And, Butch Davis took over a team with a 2 year probation. Mario Cristobal, FIU's coach took 4 years and look at FIU now. They are in the SunBelt, which definitely ain't B1G, but a lot more local recruits are noticing FIU.

I feel Coach Kill is on the right track. Our Gophers are not going to change in 1 year even if you had Jim Harbaugh coaching. He inherited a lazy team which can be considered lazy when you have to babysit 63 athletes, which is embarrasing.

One final note, by 2013 season I feel we will compete. By 2015, UM will not be considered the same way they are today. Damn Kills old school is ranked in the top 25, NIU. Give him the chance. He has proven he can do it.
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Thanks for the post - great perspective!!!

Go Gophers!!
 

getthemall said:
I do not understand what some of you are saying. My son is a 2012 commit who will graduate early from Miami Central. Only talked to Coach Kill and Coach Miller on the phone. My son has met Coach Miller in person. I have seen the USC, NDSU, and Purdue games. The team lacks discipline and b@ll$. I believe him. When you talk to Kill and Miller, you get nothing but the truth. It looks like some of the previous recruits were signed just to give away scholarships. From what I see in the incoming recruiting class, it's off on the right foot. Just to see who Coach Miller offered at Central shows me what and who the are looking for. They are looking for character first. if a player has character, then he has heart, balls and the will to win. My son is a DT who got offered by MSU, Wake, WVU, W. Michigan, and FIU. Now U of Miami is heavily after him. But my son says, every time he talks to Coach Miller, he feels his sincerity. It will take 3-5 years just like it did when Butch Davis took over at U of Miami. And, Butch Davis took over a team with a 2 year probation. Mario Cristobal, FIU's coach took 4 years and look at FIU now. They are in the SunBelt, which definitely ain't B1G, but a lot more local recruits are noticing FIU.

I feel Coach Kill is on the right track. Our Gophers are not going to change in 1 year even if you had Jim Harbaugh coaching. He inherited a lazy team which can be considered lazy when you have to babysit 63 athletes, which is embarrasing.

One final note, by 2013 season I feel we will compete. By 2015, UM will not be considered the same way they are today. Damn Kills old school is ranked in the top 25, NIU. Give him the chance. He has proven he can do it.
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Well said and let me offer a sincere welcome to your son...
 

getthemall said:
I do not understand what some of you are saying. My son is a 2012 commit who will graduate early from Miami Central. Only talked to Coach Kill and Coach Miller on the phone. My son has met Coach Miller in person. I have seen the USC, NDSU, and Purdue games. The team lacks discipline and b@ll$. I believe him. When you talk to Kill and Miller, you get nothing but the truth. It looks like some of the previous recruits were signed just to give away scholarships. From what I see in the incoming recruiting class, it's off on the right foot. Just to see who Coach Miller offered at Central shows me what and who the are looking for. They are looking for character first. if a player has character, then he has heart, balls and the will to win. My son is a DT who got offered by MSU, Wake, WVU, W. Michigan, and FIU. Now U of Miami is heavily after him. But my son says, every time he talks to Coach Miller, he feels his sincerity. It will take 3-5 years just like it did when Butch Davis took over at U of Miami. And, Butch Davis took over a team with a 2 year probation. Mario Cristobal, FIU's coach took 4 years and look at FIU now. They are in the SunBelt, which definitely ain't B1G, but a lot more local recruits are noticing FIU.

I feel Coach Kill is on the right track. Our Gophers are not going to change in 1 year even if you had Jim Harbaugh coaching. He inherited a lazy team which can be considered lazy when you have to babysit 63 athletes, which is embarrasing.

One final note, by 2013 season I feel we will compete. By 2015, UM will not be considered the same way they are today. Damn Kills old school is ranked in the top 25, NIU. Give him the chance. He has proven he can do it.
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Can you also get him to bring the DB Manning and the WR Joyner with too? I would prioritize the DB, but I am not picky.
 

Johnny Olson said:
A while back, Kill stated that the the Team GPA had gone up. I believe (2.85) he was happy
with the improvement The statements regarding the Academics are a little surprising.
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Attendance does not automatically have anything to do with your GPA.

Johnny Olson said:
I attended ten practices during spring and two a day camp. There was never more then a
couple of players wearing brown shirts and being disciplined for skipping class or
committing other infractions.
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So your point is that while being watched not all of the kids are cutting class? EDIT: Sorry, that reads as really snarky. I'm confused if you're saying it's working or if you are questioning the numbers.
 

Thanks for the post getthemall, look forward to hearing from you again. Interesting points.
 

getthemall said:
I do not understand what some of you are saying. My son is a 2012 commit who will graduate early from Miami Central. Only talked to Coach Kill and Coach Miller on the phone. My son has met Coach Miller in person. I have seen the USC, NDSU, and Purdue games. The team lacks discipline and b@ll$. I believe him. When you talk to Kill and Miller, you get nothing but the truth. It looks like some of the previous recruits were signed just to give away scholarships. From what I see in the incoming recruiting class, it's off on the right foot. Just to see who Coach Miller offered at Central shows me what and who the are looking for. They are looking for character first. if a player has character, then he has heart, balls and the will to win. My son is a DT who got offered by MSU, Wake, WVU, W. Michigan, and FIU. Now U of Miami is heavily after him. But my son says, every time he talks to Coach Miller, he feels his sincerity. It will take 3-5 years just like it did when Butch Davis took over at U of Miami. And, Butch Davis took over a team with a 2 year probation. Mario Cristobal, FIU's coach took 4 years and look at FIU now. They are in the SunBelt, which definitely ain't B1G, but a lot more local recruits are noticing FIU.

I feel Coach Kill is on the right track. Our Gophers are not going to change in 1 year even if you had Jim Harbaugh coaching. He inherited a lazy team which can be considered lazy when you have to babysit 63 athletes, which is embarrasing.

One final note, by 2013 season I feel we will compete. By 2015, UM will not be considered the same way they are today. Damn Kills old school is ranked in the top 25, NIU. Give him the chance. He has proven he can do it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing your perspective and welcome to both you and your son!
 

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