Keelon Brookins De-commits from Minnesota and heads to rival Badgers

Every measure except national championships, big ten championships, head to head wins, etc. Also, you'd pick MN if you don't want to go to school in the middle of nowhere, but in a great city that you'd have to move to anyway after college to get a job.

Yes, Minnesota has national championships that were won before Kennedy was assassinated, and the only one since the bombing of Pearl Harbor was won despite having lost the Rose Bowl. I give Minnesota the proper credit for having that history. But unlike Michigan or Ohio State that history died a long, long time ago. Minnesota has been a completely horrendous football program for the entirety of my life. Wisconsin and Iowa have had phases of incompetence, but nothing sustained quite like Minnesota. Those national championships, Big Ten championships and head-to-head wins against Iowa and Wisconsin mean nothing to any recruit right now. They mean something to fans, most of which probably weren't alive then anyway. They're nice to put into a trophy case at the stadium.

But show a recruit a picture of the last Rose Bowl team at Minnesota and they'll start asking why the picture is in black & white. We are in a what have you done for me lately kind of world. Modern day Minnesota football has no tradition to sell. But you're right, you'd pick Minnesota if you wanted a more urban campus. I would think on the list of reasons for a recruit to pick a school that one is pretty close to the bottom.
 

Iowa and Wisconsin are superior to Minnesota as football program by virtually ever measure.

Sorry, I was busy shining up this big bronze pig. You were saying something about "virtually every measure?"

ncf_i_rosedale_bl_600.jpg


Sorry, I gotta get back to dusting off these team photo plaques from the National Championship teams. Yeah, it's too bad that they are so damn old, but I guess it's nice to have six of them rather than none at all. /kanyeshrug

EDIT - Forgot about addressing the Brookins thing. Oh well, hope the kid has lots of luck in his future endeavors, except for when he plays against the Gophers. He needs to do what he thinks is right for his future.
 

Next to Indiana the Gopher recruiting class as it stands is the worst in the B1G. Northwestern has 15 commits including a 4 star QB and 8- 3 star players. Let's hope Kill can get some top out of state defensive players because the cupboard is bare in state.

If we had Northwestern's class, plenty of people would be complaining about the fact that 40% of the class is either unknown or a 2 star.
 

Gahh, I always miss the start these academic comparisons with Wisconsin because I'm busy at my internship at a major medical device company that employs several University of Minnesota students and zero University of Wisconsin students. Darn, going to a school that companies actually recruit and you can get a job SUUUUUUUCKS.
 

Sorry, I was busy shining up this big bronze pig. You were saying something about "virtually every measure?"

ncf_i_rosedale_bl_600.jpg


Sorry, I gotta get back to dusting off these team photo plaques from the National Championship teams. Yeah, it's too bad that they are so damn old, but I guess it's nice to have six of them rather than none at all. /kanyeshrug

EDIT - Forgot about addressing the Brookins thing. Oh well, hope the kid has lots of luck in his future endeavors, except for when he plays against the Gophers. He needs to do what he thinks is right for his future.

Fine, you have a win or 2 over Iowa in recent years. You have a win or two over Wisconsin in the last 15 years. You have national championships. Army used to be a football powerhouse too. That doesn't make Army in any way a better program than Iowa or Wisconsin. Minnesota has probably only had marginally more success than Army in the last 50 years.

In the last 20 years Minnesota is 7-13 against Iowa and 4-16 against Wisconsin, including 0 for its last 8. Nothing short of a monumental upset will keep that from becoming 0 for the last 9 in a few months. All kids currently being recruited are 17 or 18 years old. So, again...why would it surprise anyone that a local Minnesota kid chooses to go to a superior program in one of its border states?

Alright, well I'm done trying to talk sense. I hope Minnesota improves, because rivalries have a lot more juice and are much more fun when they're far less one-sided.
 



@HCSmooth:
I'm just contesting "virtually every measure." I found two measures very easily that void your statement.

Now, if you were to say that Iowa and Wisconsin are currently much more prestigious programs, I would wholeheartedly agree. I don't think there's even much argument there; Wisconsin has gone to consecutive Rose Bowls and is favored to win the conference championship again this year.
 

Gahh, I always miss the start these academic comparisons with Wisconsin because I'm busy at my internship at a major medical device company that employs several University of Minnesota students and zero University of Wisconsin students. Darn, going to a school that companies actually recruit and you can get a job SUUUUUUUCKS.

What's weird is that the original Keelon Brookins thread devolved into this exact same argument. We know 2 things for sure: there are no Wisconsin graduates at the Federal Reserve and there are no Wisconsin students at wherever this guy works.

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Saw this one as a sure decommit after the last time he opened his mouth. My big problem, why commit in the first place? I try not to let these local kids leave bother me anymore. These kids have such an entitled look at me attitude ,I tire of them. The deal about a kid wanted to get away from home. Come on .How many kids leave Wisconsin to play here? That the Badgers want I mean. Right now there a better program. But that will change in the next few years and Bielama will reap what he has sowed.
 



Everyone relax. He is a fine player, but he has two offers according to Rivals. Also keep in mind that Michael Carter was a much higher rated recruit than him, and look how that turned out. Sure, I would rather have him as he is a nice prospect. But for all we know Eric Murray might end up being a better CB than him.
 

But you're right, you'd pick Minnesota if you wanted a more urban campus. I would think on the list of reasons for a recruit to pick a school that one is pretty close to the bottom.

I didn't know UCLA is such a power house in L.A. I'm not sure what they are selling at Westwood to get all these five stars recruits. A chance to see celebrities from Beverly Hills? Being able to jump over the fence during practice sessions? According to HCSmooth, location of the school is not a factor.
If these future players are choosing schools based upon recent success, UCLA should not be able to land all these recruits. UCLA Ath. Dept. must be doing something really good if the location is not a factor. I hope Norwood Teague, and Kill will be taking notes from UW football gurus.
 

Bielema gets this job five years ago. He would have been fired three years ago. He got his job handed to him on a silver platter at Wisconsin. The conceited jerk still thinks he's god's gift to football. The gurus better not get too smug because I have a feeling sooner than later the wheels will come off in Bucky land.
 

Blackhammer said:
Bielema gets this job five years ago. He would have been fired three years ago. He got his job handed to him on a silver platter at Wisconsin. The conceited jerk still thinks he's god's gift to football. The gurus better not get too smug because I have a feeling sooner than later the wheels will come off in Bucky land.

Lol. Based on what? So sick of this. The guy is an a-hole but he can coach and recruit.
 



Lol. Based on what? So sick of this. The guy is an a-hole but he can coach and recruit.
I'll give you that. I just hate him. But he did inherit a good situation. Which makes recruiting much easier . Which is the life blood of a program.
 



I'm not saying this is what happening, but I just thought of this idea. What if say 3 or 4 guys secretly verballed to minnesota but publicly made it appear they were headed to wisconsin. And at the last minute sprung it on bielema that they were going to sign with the gophers, leaving them with basically no time to replace them. Seems like a great way to screw over a rival school. I wonder if it's ever been done or if there are any rules/safe gaurds against this kind of thing.
 

But you're right, you'd pick Minnesota if you wanted a more urban campus. I would think on the list of reasons for a recruit to pick a school that one is pretty close to the bottom.

I didn't know UCLA is such a power house in L.A. I'm not sure what they are selling at Westwood to get all these five stars recruits. A chance to see celebrities from Beverly Hills? Being able to jump over the fence during practice sessions? According to HCSmooth, location of the school is not a factor.
If these future players are choosing schools based upon recent success, UCLA should not be able to land all these recruits. UCLA Ath. Dept. must be doing something really good if the location is not a factor. I hope Norwood Teague, and Kill will be taking notes from UW football gurus.

Was going to stay away, but couldn't restrain myself anymore. Wow. I don't recall having ever said "Location of the school is not a factor". What I said was that I would imagine having an urban campus would probably rate pretty close to the bottom of the list of reasons a recruit would pick a school. Of the factors I would look at as more important than whether a school has an urban campus would be: Tradition; program prestige; recent success; coaching staff; facilities; academics; climate; teammates; coeds; uniforms.

Location is hugely important. Most recruits stay really close to home. Not sure what your point about UCLA was, because it made little sense to me and certainly wasn't germane to what I had said.
 

I'm not saying this is what happening, but I just thought of this idea. What if say 3 or 4 guys secretly verballed to minnesota but publicly made it appear they were headed to wisconsin. And at the last minute sprung it on bielema that they were going to sign with the gophers, leaving them with basically no time to replace them. Seems like a great way to screw over a rival school. I wonder if it's ever been done or if there are any rules/safe gaurds against this kind of thing.

A) I'm guessing most parents would have a pretty negative view of this and it would eventually back fire if you tried to sell it.
B) This is rumored to have happened twice in Florida's favor under Urban Meyer: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/37426-florida-football-is-meyer-an-urban-legend-or-urban-liar
 

Fine, you have a win or 2 over Iowa in recent years. You have a win or two over Wisconsin in the last 15 years. You have national championships. Army used to be a football powerhouse too. That doesn't make Army in any way a better program than Iowa or Wisconsin. Minnesota has probably only had marginally more success than Army in the last 50 years.

In the last 20 years Minnesota is 7-13 against Iowa and 4-16 against Wisconsin, including 0 for its last 8. Nothing short of a monumental upset will keep that from becoming 0 for the last 9 in a few months. All kids currently being recruited are 17 or 18 years old. So, again...why would it surprise anyone that a local Minnesota kid chooses to go to a superior program in one of its border states?

Alright, well I'm done trying to talk sense. I hope Minnesota improves, because rivalries have a lot more juice and are much more fun when they're far less one-sided.

The schools name is United States Military Academy. The team name is Black Knights. The Knights are an FBS squad. They won their championships at the back end of the largest war in history where anybody 18 - 64 years of age were drafted. Only the first draft kept the age limited to 30. My grandfather was 34 when he was drafted. His older brothers were 37 and 39. There simply were not many football aged players not in the Military by 1944 around to play in college in 1944, 45, and 46. The Knights, you could say, had a decidedly unfair advantage in "recruiting".
 

Hey Guys,
Have we been able to find where Coach Kill has been whining about ButtHead taking any of his recruits? Just like Butthead did when Urban Meyer took a verbal from him?????

Coach Kill=Class
 

Hey Guys,
Have we been able to find where Coach Kill has been whining about ButtHead taking any of his recruits? Just like Butthead did when Urban Meyer took a verbal from him?????

Coach Kill=Class

That fits what the national narrative was. But, that wasn't Bielema's complaint. Not once did he ever complain about losing a recruit. The quote that set it off went something like, "There were some things that OSU was doing that we don't do in the Big Ten. I called Urban and discussed it and the behavior stopped." the recruit that Bielema lost flipped on signing day. It has since been reported that the nature of the complaint were things like illegal phone calls, or bumping into recruits during dead periods. Here is a quick discussion of it from today: http://wisconsin.scout.com/2/1205533.html

Bielema has been around long enough and flipped enough kids and had enough flipped from him to know that's the business. The "Gentleman's agreement" part of that story that was attributed to Bielema was actually started by Michigan State. Evidently MSU did have a gentleman's agreement in place between Tressel and Dantonio, who are friends and had worked together that neither would recruit verbals of the other program.

Don't let silly things like facts get in the way, though.
 

Not once did he ever complain about losing a recruit. The quote that set it off went something like, "There were some things that OSU was doing that we don't do in the Big Ten. I called Urban and discussed it and the behavior stopped." the recruit that Bielema lost flipped on signing day. It has since been reported that the nature of the complaint were things like illegal phone calls, or bumping into recruits during dead periods.

This is pure, unadulterated BS. You don't publicize legitimate complaints, assuming any existed. Enema did this because he wanted to use a public forum to whine about a better recruiter from a better school taking his recruits away. If he had a legitimate complaint, keep it quiet and take it to the conference office. Where was the complaint? Where was the reprimand/censure/etc. of Meyer for all of his illegal activity? Given that people savage Meyer for everything (including making up plenty), where was the news report about the Big Ten coming down on him for this illegal activity?

He has no class. Period. You would and will never see Kill, Ferentz, or Fitzgerald whine about getting their recruits taken away during a press conference. They would take legitimate complaints to the conference office like respectable adults.
 

Just so we are clear... according to HCsmooth BB = Class and Kill not equal to class? Ya Right!!!!

Lets not let fact get in the way..
 

This is pure, unadulterated BS. You don't publicize legitimate complaints, assuming any existed. Enema did this because he wanted to use a public forum to whine about a better recruiter from a better school taking his recruits away. If he had a legitimate complaint, keep it quiet and take it to the conference office. Where was the complaint? Where was the reprimand/censure/etc. of Meyer for all of his illegal activity? Given that people savage Meyer for everything (including making up plenty), where was the news report about the Big Ten coming down on him for this illegal activity?

He has no class. Period. You would and will never see Kill, Ferentz, or Fitzgerald whine about getting their recruits taken away during a press conference. They would take legitimate complaints to the conference office like respectable adults.

I am not defending Bielema in general. I think for most of his time as Wisconsin's coach he has come across as arrogant and a total dick, especially in how he behaved toward Tim Brewster-led Minnesota. On this I do believe you are entirely wrong. I have few doubts that he was upset about losing that kid, but I listened to the press conference where the accusation of illegal tactics was made. At least in how he talked about Dodson he was pretty well aware of the situation for months. It wasn't a surprise to any fans that it happene, so it couldn't have been a surprise to Bielema.

You can choose to not believe a word he says, and in some ways he's certainly earned that. But this story does a pretty good job of summarizing what happened between Bielma and Urban Meyer, at least in Bielema's words at the signing day press conference. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/02/01/wisconsins-bielema-questions-urban-meyers-recruiting/

It sounds to me like he claimed to have notified people about it, and I think when OSU was self reporting violations a few months ago this issue was brought back up and it brought more clarity to the nature of Bielema's comments.

As this story says, this is the 2nd year in a row that Bielema has said something about recruiting tactics. I have no problem that he does it, but it does bug me that he doesn't say anything more specific about what they're doing and how he's handling it. I believe, and everyone else does, that the SEC is full of cheats. As far as I'm concerned if you have evidence of that then come clean with it. Don't make these vague comments about it like Bielema has done.

But based on the evidence, and I'm not just talking about Bielema's comments, you are entirely wrong on calling this BS. Legitimate complaint about illegal tactics, even if it was interpreted and came across as whining about having a recruit flipped.
 

This is pure, unadulterated BS. You don't publicize legitimate complaints, assuming any existed. Enema did this because he wanted to use a public forum to whine about a better recruiter from a better school taking his recruits away. If he had a legitimate complaint, keep it quiet and take it to the conference office. Where was the complaint? Where was the reprimand/censure/etc. of Meyer for all of his illegal activity? Given that people savage Meyer for everything (including making up plenty), where was the news report about the Big Ten coming down on him for this illegal activity?

He has no class. Period. You would and will never see Kill, Ferentz, or Fitzgerald whine about getting their recruits taken away during a press conference. They would take legitimate complaints to the conference office like respectable adults.

+1, very well said. Way to put this clown in his place.

Losing Brookins sucks, but people are overracting a little imo. He's a 3 star cb, he's a dime a dozen, just not in Minnesota which is really the only reason to be upset about this. And remember he hasn't signed with anybody yet.
 

That fits what the national narrative was. But, that wasn't Bielema's complaint. Not once did he ever complain about losing a recruit. The quote that set it off went something like, "There were some things that OSU was doing that we don't do in the Big Ten. I called Urban and discussed it and the behavior stopped." the recruit that Bielema lost flipped on signing day. It has since been reported that the nature of the complaint were things like illegal phone calls, or bumping into recruits during dead periods.

Bielema has been around long enough and flipped enough kids and had enough flipped from him to know that's the business. The "Gentleman's agreement" part of that story that was attributed to Bielema was actually started by Michigan State. Evidently MSU did have a gentleman's agreement in place between Tressel and Dantonio, who are friends and had worked together that neither would recruit verbals of the other program.

Don't let silly things like facts get in the way, though.

Okay, why did Barry A. refute Bielema?

http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/34680085/5

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/tag/_/name/bret-bielema/count/76



http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-f...ans-agreement-in-the-big-ten-others-disagree/

http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-f...ans-agreement-in-the-big-ten-others-disagree/


"Wisconsin head coach Bret Bielema, along with Michigan State's Mark Dantonio, made it clear that they were not fans of the way Urban Meyer had conducted himself during his first recruiting season with Ohio State. Specifically the way Meyer recruited players that had previously given commitments to other Big Ten schools, including Wisconsin and Michigan State."

Interesting!
 

Okay, why did Barry A. refute Bielema?

http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/34680085/5

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/tag/_/name/bret-bielema/count/76



http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-f...ans-agreement-in-the-big-ten-others-disagree/

http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-f...ans-agreement-in-the-big-ten-others-disagree/


"Wisconsin head coach Bret Bielema, along with Michigan State's Mark Dantonio, made it clear that they were not fans of the way Urban Meyer had conducted himself during his first recruiting season with Ohio State. Specifically the way Meyer recruited players that had previously given commitments to other Big Ten schools, including Wisconsin and Michigan State."

Interesting!

Where do I start? Barry Alvarez's comments were about the idea of a Gentleman's Agreement, which Bielema never said anything about or hinted at. That came from Michigan State. So, Barry Alvarez saying that about the gentleman's agreement did nothing to refute Bielema's claim of illegal recruiting tactics.

The only, and I repeat the ONLY, thing Bielema has ever said publicly on the issue was about illegal recruiting tactics. Had nothing at all to do with Urban Meyer continuing to recruit committed players. You can chalk that up to sour grapes if you want, but that would be the wrong interpretation of it. The national writers, and even many in the Big Ten area, totally misunderstood what Bielema actually was saying.

That last quote came from some reporter who missed the point, just like the rest of them who probably never even read or heard what Bielema said.

Here you go: http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2012-04-09/urban-meyer-florida-ohio-state-ncaa-violation-recruiting-drugs-program-will-musc According to sources, Wisconsin accused Meyer and his staff of using former Ohio State NFL players to call high school recruits. Wisconsin also accused Meyer and his staff of bumping into offensive lineman Kyle Dodson, who was committed to the Badgers but eventually flipped and signed with the Buckeyes. The practice of “bumping” occurs when coaches accidentally “bump” into players during recruiting dead periods.

Both the alleged phone calls and bumping are NCAA violations.

When asked about the specific charges, Wisconsin coach Bret Bielema declined comment but told Sporting News a day after National Signing Day that, “I wasn’t upset with Urban because of a gentlemen’s agreement. It was something else that I don’t want to get into. I told him what I knew, and he said he would take care of it and he did.”


Again, let's not let facts get in the way of the reality you've created. Plenty to criticize Bielema for. This isn't one of those things.
 

Where do I start? Barry Alvarez's comments were about the idea of a Gentleman's Agreement, which Bielema never said anything about or hinted at. That came from Michigan State. So, Barry Alvarez saying that about the gentleman's agreement did nothing to refute Bielema's claim of illegal recruiting tactics.

The only, and I repeat the ONLY, thing Bielema has ever said publicly on the issue was about illegal recruiting tactics. Had nothing at all to do with Urban Meyer continuing to recruit committed players. You can chalk that up to sour grapes if you want, but that would be the wrong interpretation of it. The national writers, and even many in the Big Ten area, totally misunderstood what Bielema actually was saying.

That last quote came from some reporter who missed the point, just like the rest of them who probably never even read or heard what Bielema said.

Here you go: http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2012-04-09/urban-meyer-florida-ohio-state-ncaa-violation-recruiting-drugs-program-will-musc According to sources, Wisconsin accused Meyer and his staff of using former Ohio State NFL players to call high school recruits. Wisconsin also accused Meyer and his staff of bumping into offensive lineman Kyle Dodson, who was committed to the Badgers but eventually flipped and signed with the Buckeyes. The practice of “bumping” occurs when coaches accidentally “bump” into players during recruiting dead periods.

Both the alleged phone calls and bumping are NCAA violations.

When asked about the specific charges, Wisconsin coach Bret Bielema declined comment but told Sporting News a day after National Signing Day that, “I wasn’t upset with Urban because of a gentlemen’s agreement. It was something else that I don’t want to get into. I told him what I knew, and he said he would take care of it and he did.”


Again, let's not let facts get in the way of the reality you've created. Plenty to criticize Bielema for. This isn't one of those things.

Now I see why others are ripping you. If one goes to multiple sources and reads that Bielema is "upset" over a gentleman's agreement, you can't accuse said individuals of creating some delusional reality. Bielema is partially responsible for that perception. Furthermore, why did Alvarez feel the need to say there is no such thing as a gentleman's agreement?
 

I'll never understand the Sisyphean quest of going on an opposing team's message board to defend your program. How empty is your day/life?
 




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