Is it time to admit PJ (and staff) can coach?

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Section209 said:
If they had time to get the field goal unit on the field, they had time to set up for a shot at the end zone. They'd been effectively moving the ball in the final minute (+) leading up to that field goal. No guarantee they score the TD. As we've seen this year, no guarantee we hit the FG. Fleck has a history of settling for the FG at the end of the half.
If you can say "we'd have had a chance if we hadn't been jobbed by the refs" or "we'd have won if only Kesich hadn't missed that FG", it's also reasonable to play the "if only" game with coaching decisions. I happen to think the refs screwed the Goph's on the onside kick call. But that single call didn't decide the outcome of the game. Decision points and performance failures all along the way impacted the outcome.
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They didn't have time to get the field goal unit on the field for any reason other than that they had predetermined that they were going to run on the field as soon as any play ended in bounds. Any hesitation or deviation from that plan would have killed the rest of the clock. PJ didn't know that the play was going to end a the one-yard line. Had he been clairvoyant and known that was going to happen, I am guessing that he would have rushed to the line and tried to punch it in, but he didn't know that, nor could anyone have known that. But that's what you called him out for.

I didn't say anything about the refs or the missed field goal, so I know that those remarks aren't directed at me specifically, and I don't disagree with your general statements about his conservative nature, but I don't think in this instance it is reasonable to look at what happened in the last few seconds of the first half and attribute it to PJ's lack of stones.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
I think PJ’s tryout for the MI head coaching job went pretty well. Let’s not fool ourselves. Our bald bold leader would break for the blue job.
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He would bail for any job that has at least same salary and better NIL and recruiting base. MSHL football isn't very good even compared to Wisconsin or Iowa. What coach wouldn't leave the Minnesota job, especially since the head coach usually ends up getting fired.
 

STPGopher said:
Is it time to admit PJ (and staff) can coach? I think so.
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OK. Now, it's time to analyze why recruiting top talent to UM is so difficult and what, if anything, can be done to attract enough talent to compete for conference championships like the U did before the 60s.
 


FanSinceTheFifties said:
OK. Now, it's time to analyze why recruiting top talent to UM is so difficult and what, if anything, can be done to attract enough talent to compete for conference championships like the U did before the 60s.
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It's all about the $$. Always has been. Now even more so.
 




Maybe off topic a little but has Fleck developed a “coaching tree” at all. Seems like there is turnover, but usually lateral moves.
 







Panthadad2 said:
It's all about the $$. Always has been. Now even more so.
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FanSinceTheFifties said:
The money factor is recent. It's been hard to recruit to Minneapolis since the 60s

Money has been a factor in college football long before NIL, it was just under the table from a player perspective. The combo platter of NIL and the open portal has just brought it to the surface.

In contrast, institutional investment has always been at the forefront. While the UofMN was cheaping out letting its football facilities decay for a few decades and outright abandoning the on-campus stadium for the sterile Dome, other programs were emphasizing football for marketing, investing and building. The Gophs are now catching up.
 
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I’ve always loved everything about PJ other than his in game coaching… After the North Carolina game, PJ and the whole staff have flipped that feeling on its head. They have been making in game adjustments, using time outs prudently and effectively, designing game plans that exploit other team’s weaknesses… I’m fully bought in!
 

I was about to give up on Fleck in 2018 after the destruction at the hands of Illinois. He rebounded and made an in-season firing of his d-coordinator and by the end of 2018 I found myself really looking forward to 2019 and felt all the national media had completely missed what was going on here. By the end of 2019 I was a Fleckster all the way. What has transpired since then has been a mixed bag and at one point (after Iowa this year) I was starting to feel those doom and gloom 2018 vibes.

I think he is capable of making assistant coaching hire mistakes, and his message can fall flat as he has had two teams here that have faded out pretty badly (2017 and 2023). I sometimes have a mixture of eye rolls and cringing during his preachy press conferences and interviews (when I'm anxious for info about the team but instead get a lecture on all the adversity all his teams have overcome and what great husbands they will be).

But, he does also seem to be able to pull things together and position teams with mid level talent to be able to compete for big things. One more on target kick against NC and one more ref on the kicking line for the Michigan game and this team would be 7-1 right now and contending for another 10 win season.

As I add it all up, I see more of the same for as long as Fleck is here. And, considering where our program has been, I'm okay with that. Within every 5 year period, you get the potential for a special season depending how the ball bounces in close games ('19, '24). You also get two Mason/Kill seasons ('21 and '22). And finally, you get one year where the schtick runs thin and the grumbling grows ('23).

Sure, I would like to have sustained conference contender status of OSU, Mich, or even PSU. But for now, this seems to be a step above what Mason could deliver and I had some fun during the Mason years.
 



GopherEnEspaña said:
I'm ashamed of how hyperbolic and ridiculous I was acting after the UNC and Iowa games. At least we don't have Trent Dilfer.
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You had plenty of company here with people losing it after the Iowa game. Got pretty weird around here for a few weeks. :)
 

Schnauzer said:
I was about to give up on Fleck in 2018 after the destruction at the hands of Illinois. He rebounded and made an in-season firing of his d-coordinator and by the end of 2018 I found myself really looking forward to 2019 and felt all the national media had completely missed what was going on here. By the end of 2019 I was a Fleckster all the way. What has transpired since then has been a mixed bag and at one point (after Iowa this year) I was starting to feel those doom and gloom 2018 vibes.

I think he is capable of making assistant coaching hire mistakes, and his message can fall flat as he has had two teams here that have faded out pretty badly (2017 and 2023). I sometimes have a mixture of eye rolls and cringing during his preachy press conferences and interviews (when I'm anxious for info about the team but instead get a lecture on all the adversity all his teams have overcome and what great husbands they will be).

But, he does also seem to be able to pull things together and position teams with mid level talent to be able to compete for big things. One more on target kick against NC and one more ref on the kicking line for the Michigan game and this team would be 7-1 right now and contending for another 10 win season.

As I add it all up, I see more of the same for as long as Fleck is here. And, considering where our program has been, I'm okay with that. Within every 5 year period, you get the potential for a special season depending how the ball bounces in close games ('19, '24). You also get two Mason/Kill seasons ('21 and '22). And finally, you get one year where the schtick runs thin and the grumbling grows ('23).

Sure, I would like to have sustained conference contender status of OSU, Mich, or even PSU. But for now, this seems to be a step above what Mason could deliver and I had some fun during the Mason years.
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This is pretty much identical to my feelings. The only comment I want to add is about the teams fading in '17 and '23. PJ talks a lot about players leading, but it does appear that player leadership is very reliant on player ability, specifically at QB. Some of this is clearly connected to having confidence in your teammates. It was probably easy for players to have confidence in Bateman, Johnson, Winfield, Morgan, etc. 2023 offered the opportunity for leadership to transition, but once the book was out on AK it seemed like the players were pretty discouraged (certainly the fans were). With Brosmer at QB and a clear star in the making in Perich, player confidence - and by extension leadership - appears to be in a better place than a year ago. Hopefully they finish the season strong and have a plan to avoid a repeat of '23 next year.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
3-1 would get him back to .500 in conference play through 8 seasons.
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You can look at this a number of ways. If it's more of what has he done recently, since 2019 he's 27-21 in conference play (24-17 if you take out the weird Covid year).
 

MaxyJR1 said:
3-1 would get him back to .500 in conference play through 8 seasons.
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For context, here are Gopher coaches records in conference play since 1954:

Murray Warmath — 65-57-4 (.533)

Cal Stoll — 27-29 (.482)

Joe Salem — 12-32-1 (.272)

Lou Holtz — 7-10 (.411)

John Gutekunst — 18-28- 2 (.391)

Jim Wacker — 8-32 (.200)

Glen Mason — 32-48 (.400)

Tim Brewster — 6-21 (.214)

Jeff Horton — 2-3 (.400)

Jerry Kill — 14-21 (.400)

Tracy Claeys — 6-8 (.428)

P.J. Fleck — 32-43 (.492)

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As you can see, Hall of Fame coach Murray Warmath is the only Gopher coach above .500 in B1G play in the last 70 years.
 
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IMHO PJ is a decent coach, obviously not offensive wizard or in game magician. He is consistent in his message and the development of this program. NIL has created a new world in college football, MN is adjusting and finding footing. As PJ says this is a developmental program. I personally am enjoying watching former players in the NFL and ones coming back to the program to coach. PJ has begun to build a culture tree, i won't say coaching tree as that has not been proven(other thanWinston). But we do see former players still making an impact in the community and being supported by the community. Such as Casey and Shannon. I like that there is so much outreach and when a player is in the news it's not because he got in a fight downtown. I imagine in the future players will seek out the stability and development they get at University of Minnesota. I also believe PJ wants to be here, to be our Barry Alvarez. Is it so bad to look for the positives? To measure a program on more than wins? We could all benefit from a more positive keep rowing attitude! SKI U MAH RTB GO GOPHERS!!
 


Gopher_In_NYC said:
Nope 🤣
😃
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PJ can coach - He has made Minnesota a second tier B1G team and continues to send talent to the NFL in a way that gives us the opportunity to break through. Plus he is ding it in a way that makes our program distinctive (builds community leaders/outstanding young men). He has also been able to pivot as a coach this year with NIL and with the offense. PJ makes me proud to be a Gopher football fan.
 


RememberMurray said:
For context, here are Gopher coaches records in conference play since 1954:

Murray Warmath — 65-57-4 (.533)

Cal Stoll — 27-29 (.482)

Joe Salem — 12-32-1 (.272)

Lou Holtz — 7-10 (.411)

John Gutekunst — 18-28- 2 (.391)

Jim Wacker — 8-32 (.200)

Glen Mason — 32-48 (.400)

Tim Brewster — 6-21 (.214)

Jeff Horton — 2-3 (.400)

Jerry Kill — 14-21 (.400)

Tracy Claeys — 6-8 (.428)

P.J. Fleck — 32-43 (.492)

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As you can see, Hall of Fame coach Murray Warmath is the only Gopher coach above .500 in B1G play in the last 70 years.
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And my wife wonders why I've been grumpy so often on fall weekends for the last 51 years.:(
 

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