Is it time to admit PJ (and staff) can coach?

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Years ago I knew a guy who built a really awesome race car. It was scratch-built, beautifully fabricated, had a powerful engine that he assembled himself, and handled impressively. But he never won a race with it; almost never finished in the pack.

He was skilled at building a competitive machine, but not at operating it. That's how I see Fleck. Of course Fleck has had some nice seasons in his career, and a couple of really good ones. He puts together a really nice team, but I don't think he has what it takes to win big.

He's still good enough to keep around. At least our team is fun to watch.
 

It’s been awhile since I posted… just wanted to say I never doubted PJ for three and half years ever.
 


everybody knows my name said:
Years ago I knew a guy who built a really awesome race car. It was scratch-built, beautifully fabricated, had a powerful engine that he assembled himself, and handled impressively. But he never won a race with it; almost never finished in the pack.

He was skilled at building a competitive machine, but not at operating it. That's how I see Fleck. Of course Fleck has had some nice seasons in his career, and a couple of really good ones. He puts together a really nice team, but I don't think he has what it takes to win big.

He's still good enough to keep around. At least our team is fun to watch.
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This is your friend's car

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PJ has shown what he is. People will eventually have to accept it. He’s average. That’s it. Not awful but not capable of building a winning program.

What does “accept” mean to you? This is what you are ok with, fine. But for fucks sake don’t start crowing on here every time we beat 3 bad teams in a row.

He will always have 1 or 2 terrible losses per season (UNC and Rutgers this year) and more often than not lose to Wi, IA, Mi. 4 wins in 13

Northwestern (2), Wisconsin (2), Iowa (2), and Purdue all made a big ten title game.

Indi fucking ana already matched PJs best record by doing what PJ has never done. Beat Michigan.

I personally don’t believe Minny should settle for being average most years just because one year (one year) we were a whiff better than average.

We deserve better.
 

Torres9 said:
PJ has shown what he is. People will eventually have to accept it. He’s average. That’s it. Not awful but not capable of building a winning program.

What does “accept” mean to you? This is what you are ok with, fine. But for fucks sake don’t start crowing on here every time we beat 3 bad teams in a row.

He will always have 1 or 2 terrible losses per season (UNC and Rutgers this year) and more often than not lose to Wi, IA, Mi. 4 wins in 13

Northwestern (2), Wisconsin (2), Iowa (2), and Purdue all made a big ten title game.

Indi fucking ana already matched PJs best record by doing what PJ has never done. Beat Michigan.

I personally don’t believe Minny should settle for being average most years just because one year (one year) we were a whiff better than average.

We deserve better.
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I agree he is what he is.
He isn’t average.
Average coach doesn’t go to a bowl game every year with Minnesota when programs like Nebraska never make a bowl
 



Some guy said:
I agree he is what he is.
He isn’t average.
Average coach doesn’t go to a bowl game every year with Minnesota when programs like Nebraska never make a bowl
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Right. Because Nebraska is the only comparison? Boise St, Cincinnati, Utah, IL, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Iowa. You’re just ignoring a ton of evidence to suggest Minny can’t be better.

Minny cannot be more successful than playing Syracuse in a bowl game because Nebraska hired Scott Frost? Come on. You’re just backfilling reasons why PJ is “over performing”. He isn’t

By the “get to a bowl game” standard Mason was a legend.
 

Torres9 said:
Right. Because Nebraska is the only comparison? Boise St, Cincinnati, Utah, IL, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Iowa. You’re just ignoring a ton of evidence to suggest Minny can’t be better.

Minny cannot be more successful than playing Syracuse in a bowl game because Nebraska hired Scott Frost? Come on. You’re just backfilling reasons why PJ is “over performing”. He isn’t

By the “get to a bowl game” standard Mason was a legend.
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Iowa has a great coach and just lost to ucla
Wisconsin has a coach and just got beat by 35 by Iowa

Who said he is overperforming?
I never said that.

You’re kicking ass in an intellectual battle no one is fighting.
You’re losing a battle when you say he is an average coach. He isn’t He is above average.
Utah has a worse record with a top 15 coach in the country. Northwestern is 4-5, cinci it 5-4. The gophers (and half the big ten) would have the same record against Boise states schedule as Boise state.

That might not be good enough. That’s a debate to be had. I’m not ready to cut him loose yet but might be in the next year or two.
 

Some guy said:
I agree he is what he is.
He isn’t average.
Average coach doesn’t go to a bowl game every year with Minnesota when programs like Nebraska never make a bowl
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Thank academics 5-7 last year. They had the Big Ten West schedule to help them out but couldn't win that even. Yet a Purdue or Northwestern could in his tenure?
 

Some guy said:
Iowa has a great coach and just lost to ucla
Wisconsin has a coach and just got beat by 35 by Iowa

Who said he is overperforming?
I never said that.

You’re kicking ass in an intellectual battle no one is fighting.
You’re losing a battle when you say he is an average coach. He isn’t He is above average.
Utah has a worse record with a top 15 coach in the country. Northwestern is 4-5, cinci it 5-4. The gophers (and half the big ten) would have the same record against Boise states schedule as Boise state.

That might not be good enough. That’s a debate to be had. I’m not ready to cut him loose yet but might be in the next year or two.
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Fair enough. I guess I’m saying we’ve seen PJs “best”. This is it. Whatever this is. I’m not ok with it, but others are. Fine.
 

BigSchmidty17 said:
Thank academics 5-7 last year. They had the Big Ten West scheule to help hom out but couldn't win that even. Yet a Purdue or Northwestern could in his tenure?
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Yeah. They never won the west. Correct.
Are we talking about him being a great coach or an average coach or an above average coach?

To be an average coach you have to win a division title? The average coach wins a division title?
 

Torres9 said:
Fair enough. I guess I’m saying we’ve seen PJs “best”. This is it. Whatever this is. I’m not ok with it, but others are. Fine.
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That’s literally not what you said: you said he was an average coach.
 

Torres9 said:
PJ has shown what he is. People will eventually have to accept it. He’s average. That’s it. Not awful but not capable of building a winning program.
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this is what you said: now you’re mad because you’re claiming you said something t else
 

Terrible loss, terrible team, terrible uniforms. Not elite day. Still support, but what a shit show, glad Brosmer is one and done.
 

Gopher Ally said:
Terrible loss, terrible team, terrible uniforms. Not elite day. Still support, but what a shit show, glad Brosmer is one and done.
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Brosmer did not have a good day.

I both wish we never had him and wish we had two years


1 year for 6-6 or 7-5 is kind of the worst of both worlds
 

Some guy said:
Yeah. They never won the west. Correct.
Are we talking about him being a great coach or an average coach or an above average coach?

To be an average coach you have to win a division title? The average coach wins a division title?
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I feel he loses to many winnable games that hurt our chances to win the West on past years or this year against UNC/Rutgers to be above average. I will give you average but we pay the guy 6 million. That's Lane Kiffen money and he just beat Georgia! Plus way more than Fitz got or Brohm was paid but still won the West!
 

BigSchmidty17 said:
I feel he loses to many winnable games that hurt our chances to win the West on past years or this year against UNC/Rutgers to be above average. I will give you average but we pay the guy 6 million. That's Lane Kiffen money and he just beat Georgia! Plus way more than Fitz got or Brohm was paid but still won the West!
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He has a middle of the pack big ten salary?
Not quite sure what you’re talking about
 

Some guy said:
He has a middle of the pack big ten salary?
Not quite sure what you’re talking about
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Correct but I compared him to a middle of the pack Lane Kiffen salary in SEC. Also just lost to #12 paid coach in Big Ten. Just saying there can be greener pastures if you make the right hire. But could also be another Brewster. Depends on spend and AD.
 

It's always a roll of the dice with a new coach. We are probably stuck in this situation for the foreseeable future. Could be worse, as the typical Minnesota sports fan says.
 

BigSchmidty17 said:
Correct but I compared him to a middle of the pack Lane Kiffen salary in SEC. Also just lost to #12 paid coach in Big Ten. Just saying there can be greener pastures if you make the right hire. But could also be another Brewster. Depends on spend and AD.
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For sure there are better coaches for less and worse coaches for more
 

Some guy said:
That’s literally not what you said: you said he was an average coach.
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I love the overuse of the word literally. I used the term colloquially and so did you.

I think he’s average. You’re quibbling about the definition of average. To you it’s ABOVE average to do what PJ has done.

So, I’ll be more literal. If you picked 100 coaches at random 49 would do worse 49 better and 2 the same. Average. My point was if fans want the better option, PJ is not it.

Rather than debate I said we’ve seen what he’s capable of. Mid tier bowl, losing record against rivals, no chance at a big ten title.

To you that’s “literally” above average because Nebraska and other reasons.
 

Torres9 said:
I love the overuse of the word literally. I used the term colloquially and so did you.

I think he’s average. You’re quibbling about the definition of average. To you it’s ABOVE average to do what PJ has done.

So, I’ll be more literal. If you picked 100 coaches at random 49 would do worse 49 better and 2 the same. Average. My point was if fans want the better option, PJ is not it.

Rather than debate I said we’ve seen what he’s capable of. Mid tier bowl, losing record against rivals, no chance at a big ten title.

To you that’s “literally” above average because Nebraska and other reasons.
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You’re flat out wrong at that. Half the coaches in the country would not have multiple 9 win seasons at MN
 

This site is almost insufferable. You win a few a few games in a row and PJ Boys take victory laps and explode all over themselves. You lose a couple(or an ugly like today) and the other side wants him gone.
 

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