Illinois QB Chris Streveler a Gopher commit

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Bayfieldgopher said:
I wonder what other positions Phillip Nelson could play?

There is little doubt that he is the annointed one when it comes to GH'ers naming the starting QB for the next four years. Who knows who will be sending in the plays from the sideline. It could be Nelson. There could be some very good competition for the number one spot.

Bring it!
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Nelson received an offer in February of his junior year. He didn't have to earn it at camp. He was one of the main guys that was targeted right away by the staff. From a recruiting standpoint, its pretty obvious that they see these guys differently.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I understand the arguments that Weber's development was held back by the U. I think they are pretty unsubstantiated.

I think this kind of analysis requires you to look at the situation from both sides. The situation definitely wasn't perfect, he had poor protection a couple of the years (our inability to protect the passer those years is largely overblown). He didn't have a running game. He switched OCs.

On the other hand, he played a ton with practically zero competition (If Weber was getting pulled more in his Junior season you can bet Weber fans would be arguing ". . .and he had to worry about getting pulled out after every mistake"), his teams threw a lot and he had relatively decent WRs. That is a good way to pad stats.

All in all, I think it was pretty nuetral. He had three decent seasons at the U and I've never argued that he was the source of our problems. However, I've never understood the "conclusion" that Weber's development was held back by the U.

PS: Jacori Harris, his first year with Fisch, completed 65% of his passes and he had a better than 2-1 Td/int ratio. The villification of Jedd Fisch is stale.
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Be careful. If you post well thought out analyses you may get a bad reputation on this board. I never was a big Weber fan, but you make some good points. Also keep in mind that we were behind in most of the games he played in, so he HAD to throw a lot. I think a lot of the frustration with Weber is by his senior year everybody knew what the ceiling was with AW. The counter-question is how much further along would Marquies be if the coaches had decided to take their lumps and started Gray instead. Granted, that isn't going to happen when a coach is trying to save his job.

Time will tell whether this Streveler was a good get. I'm sure Wisconsin "cooled" on him as soon as he signed with us. I wonder if Wisky is getting hurt in recruiting QB's due to Bulemia's strategy of signing a "rent-a-QB" the last couple of years? Sooner or later that's gonna bite them in the azz.
 

Too Long in the Wasteland said:
The counter-question is how much further along would Marquies be if the coaches had decided to take their lumps and started Gray instead. Granted, that isn't going to happen when a coach is trying to save his job.
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So is your position that Brewster should have started an inferior QB and lost more games? After watching Gray the 1st half of last year, isn't it obvious now to everyone why Weber continued to play? He gave us the best chance to win. What else should we advocate? How about benching Stoudemire and Michael Carter for their senior seasons because we know their upside and let's take our lumps with Eric Murray {extreme sarcasm}. Why not let Mike Rallis hand out water so we can see what we have in Jephete Matilus? The line of thinking that Gray should have been playing significant minutes is ridiculous. Where Gray needed the reps was in practice, not in games. The switch to WR, multiple OCs, multiple offenses, and limited practice reps was what stunted his growth at QB.
 

John Galt said:
So is your position that Brewster should have started an inferior QB and lost more games? After watching Gray the 1st half of last year, isn't it obvious now to everyone why Weber continued to play? He gave us the best chance to win. What else should we advocate? How about benching Stoudemire and Michael Carter for their senior seasons because we know their upside and let's take our lumps with Eric Murray {extreme sarcasm}. Why not let Mike Rallis hand out water so we can see what we have in Jephete Matilus? The line of thinking that Gray should have been playing significant minutes is ridiculous. Where Gray needed the reps was in practice, not in games. The switch to WR, multiple OCs, multiple offenses, and limited practice reps was what stunted his growth at QB.
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Generally, I agree with you but I think it's a big difference between a QB and a LB/CB. The young CBs and LBs will still play quite a bit.

Where my issue with Brewster was not that Weber started, it was that Gray never even played in mop up duty. He had 23 passing attempts going into his SR season. I think there were certainly times to Gray a lot more snaps. We weren't competing in all of those games, especially at the end. Weber gave us our best chance to win, but Gray should have played more.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Generally, I agree with you but I think it's a big difference between a QB and a LB/CB. The young CBs and LBs will still play quite a bit.

Where my issue with Brewster was not that Weber started, it was that Gray never even played in mop up duty. He had 23 passing attempts going into his SR season. I think there were certainly times to Gray a lot more snaps. We weren't competing in all of those games, especially at the end. Weber gave us our best chance to win, but Gray should have played more.
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Absolutely!
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
We weren't competing in all of those games, especially at the end. Weber gave us our best chance to win, but Gray should have played more.
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You mean to say that Weber SHOULD NOT have taken every. single. snap as a 1-7 Minnesota team lost 52-10 (31-7 at halftime) to OSU in 2010? Stop being a Weber Myth Engineer©.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Generally, I agree with you but I think it's a big difference between a QB and a LB/CB. The young CBs and LBs will still play quite a bit.

Where my issue with Brewster was not that Weber started, it was that Gray never even played in mop up duty. He had 23 passing attempts going into his SR season. I think there were certainly times to Gray a lot more snaps. We weren't competing in all of those games, especially at the end. Weber gave us our best chance to win, but Gray should have played more.
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I'm all for player development and getting reps, but there has to be a basic level of competence before it can pay off. If a player is completely unprepared and not at all able to handle the basics of the position, there is no point in throwing him to the wolves, it's not going to help him. I don't know this for certain w/ Gray, but suspect it might be the case. My problem with the Brewster was loyal to Weber at all costs argument is that it doesn't make sense. Weber was already here and recruited by Mason. Gray was Brewster's star recruit, so he had every incentive in the world to let him get snaps if he was ready.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I understand the arguments that Weber's development was held back by the U. I think they are pretty unsubstantiated.

On the other hand, he played a ton with practically zero competition (If Weber was getting pulled more in his Junior season you can bet Weber fans would be arguing ". . .and he had to worry about getting pulled out after every mistake"), his teams threw a lot and he had relatively decent WRs. That is a good way to pad stats. .
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Huh? Bob, I love your insight and what you bring to the board but "relatively decent WRs"? Time out.

For the brunt of his career, the shining gems of Weber's WR corps include Decker (who missed a huge chunk of the year he got injured), a young and inexperienced McKnight, a pair of guys who are correctly playing different positions this year (Troy S and Gray), and a cast of people like Hayo Carpenter, Bryant Allen, a constantly dinged up Brandon Green, David Pittman, Ben Kuznia, et al.

Weber had no help. Period. I love the argument, "he was horrible when he didn't have Decker to throw to". Ummmmmm....... YES!!!! If you have ONE BCS-caliber receiver and he gets hurt, there's a decent chance your numbers might just suffer. Brilliant assessment.

Sorry. Felt the need to weigh in on that one.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Huh? Bob, I love your insight and what you bring to the board but "relatively decent WRs"? Time out.

For the brunt of his career, the shining gems of Weber's WR corps include Decker (who missed a huge chunk of the year he got injured), a young and inexperienced McKnight, a pair of guys who are correctly playing different positions this year (Troy S and Gray), and a cast of people like Hayo Carpenter, Bryant Allen, a constantly dinged up Brandon Green, David Pittman, Ben Kuznia, et al.

Weber had no help. Period. I love the argument, "he was horrible when he didn't have Decker to throw to". Ummmmmm....... YES!!!! If you have ONE BCS-caliber receiver and he gets hurt, there's a decent chance your numbers might just suffer. Brilliant assessment.

Sorry. Felt the need to weigh in on that one.
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Yeah, but he did have Decker for 3 of his seasons. I realize that Decker was oft injured, but he was about as good as a WR as the U has ever had, he probably is the best. McKnight was decent until his senior season and Gray was a decent WR. Lair was also alright. I agree that we weren't deep, but we did have two of the most productive WRs to ever wear Maroon and Gold and another pretty talented kid (Gray).

I'm not saying that WR was a strength, but it was ok during Weber's tenure. It certainly wasn't a deep position, but having Decker is better than almost any QB we've had at the U. I also said that the receiving corp was relatively decent because relative to our current group of WRs and our WRs before Weber. . . it was an ok corp. Our WR corp was certainly better in 08, 09, 10 than it was last year.

But yeah, you're right, it wasn't a good position. I just meant that it was a more talented corp than we usually have had.
 



I am by no means a Adam Weber hater, but it's ridiculous to argue that he was better then the best MAC qbs during his tenure. Do people realize how good Dan LeFevour was? 2nd all time in touchdowns, 2nd all time in total yardage, the only player in ncaa history to throw for 12,000 yrds and rush for 2,500 yrds. He ran for 1122 and 19 tds is his sophomore year! 142.9 career qb rating. 66.4% career completion percentage.
 


Summer Reruns

Unregistered User said:
Good lord I'm lost. What the hell is this thread about?
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It is called summer reruns. It is same thing as the running of Mash reruns for about 10 years after the last episode was made. Instead of that we rerun these arguments during the slow periods. Nothing new is said but people seem to be comfortable with what they know. I am personally looking forward to my favorite episode called "Weber and the Bounce Pass." The rest of them like old Mash reruns are really getting old.
 




haha someone said streveler was a mac level qb, i said the higher end mac qbs are typically better then our qbs, someone said weber would have been the best qb in the mac, mayhem ensued.
 

zman said:
I think a recruit named Chris Weber just gave a verbal commit to the Gophers.
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Chris Weber!?! Whoa, whoa, whoa. Time Out. (Get it? Because of the basketball player and the Final Four!?!?)

Oh my God I hate my life.
 

John Galt said:
I'm all for player development and getting reps, but there has to be a basic level of competence before it can pay off. If a player is completely unprepared and not at all able to handle the basics of the position, there is no point in throwing him to the wolves, it's not going to help him. I don't know this for certain w/ Gray, but suspect it might be the case. My problem with the Brewster was loyal to Weber at all costs argument is that it doesn't make sense. Weber was already here and recruited by Mason. Gray was Brewster's star recruit, so he had every incentive in the world to let him get snaps if he was ready.
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Gentlemen, lets look at it this way. What if Weber gets hit in the aforementioned blow out against OSU and is lost for the season? The rest of the season now rests on the shoulders of a QB that everyone is convinced wasn't ready. Playing the backup in a blowout isn't only about getting your backups experience but it is also about preserving your starters' health. I don't remember the second half of the OSU game being discussed earlier but I'm willing to bet that the second and possibly even third string for OSU played the majority of the second half. That is a missed opportunity to advance the future of your program by alloiwing your presumed future starter some valuable game experience. Nothing is gained by leaving your starting QB out there to finish the game in a blow out of that magnitude.

By the way, I love how confident everyone is that Brewster made the right decision in this instance when he so clearly made the wrong decision in every other instance.
 

cjcarter8 said:
Gentlemen, lets look at it this way. What if Weber gets hit in the aforementioned blow out against OSU and is lost for the season? The rest of the season now rests on the shoulders of a QB that everyone is convinced wasn't ready. Playing the backup in a blowout isn't only about getting your backups experience but it is also about preserving your starters' health. I don't remember the second half of the OSU game being discussed earlier but I'm willing to bet that the second and possibly even third string for OSU played the majority of the second half. That is a missed opportunity to advance the future of your program by alloiwing your presumed future starter some valuable game experience. Nothing is gained by leaving your starting QB out there to finish the game in a blow out of that magnitude.

By the way, I love how confident everyone is that Brewster made the right decision in this instance when he so clearly made the wrong decision in every other instance.
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Brewster put Gray in during the 4th quarter mop up duty against Ohio St. his freshmen year when he was playing QB. The Ohio St. game you are refering to was his sophomore year, when he was playing WR. But somehow, after playing WR for 3 quarters, Gray was supposed to come in and play QB in the 4th and that was going to help his development? I don't like the idea of Weber playing the whole second half either, but in hindsight it's pretty easy to see why it happened. There was no one else...
 

John Galt said:
But somehow, after playing WR for 3 quarters, Gray was supposed to come in and play QB in the 4th and that was going to help his development? I don't like the idea of Weber playing the whole second half either, but in hindsight it's pretty easy to see why it happened. There was no one else...
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Gray played QB (on the road, nonetheless) when we were thumped by MSU the week after the OSU game. Why not the OSU game? Did he spend the entire week between the MSU and OSU games practicing at QB? Doubtful, since he also played WR in the MSU game and caught a TD.

(P.S. He also played QB in the Illinois and Iowa games, both of which were wins. Interesting.)
 

Since we're on the subject, Imma go ahead and leave this stat here:

2010 season, Minnesota's record in games wherein MarQueis Gray did not throw a pass: 1-8 (.111)
2010 season, Minnesota's record in games wherein MarQueis Gray did throw a pass: 2-1 (.667)

Of course, the games in the former category include a game against a I-AA school and a MAC school, while all 3 games in the latter category were against Big Ten opponents.

Interesting.
 

dpodoll68 said:
(P.S. He also played QB in the Illinois and Iowa games, both of which were wins. Interesting.)
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I'd use that term loosely. How many passes did he throw in those games? He basically was brought in to run the wildcat. While that technically qualifies as playing QB, it did little to help the all-around development that he needed as most people have been discussing.
 

John Galt said:
I'd use that term loosely. How many passes did he throw in those games? He basically was brought in to run the wildcat. While that technically qualifies as playing QB, it did little to help the all-around development that he needed as most people have been discussing.
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Did he play QB in those games? Yes or no? Did he also play WR in those games? Yes or no? Why did he not play a snap at QB during a game where we came in 1-7 (zero possibility of a bowl bid) and were defeated at home by 7 TDs?

Brewster not playing Gray at QB for every single minute of the last 4 games of the 2010 season (at bare minimum) is his single most damaging legacy as Gophers head coach.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Brewster not playing Gray at QB for every single minute of the last 4 games of the 2010 season (at bare minimum) is his single most damaging legacy as Gophers head coach.
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Are you suggesting Gray should have played every minute starting with the Northern Illinois game?

3 starts for Weber and then shut him down?
 


dpodoll68 said:
Huh?
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Are you suggesting that Gray should have started the last 4 games of Brewster coaching in 2010? That would have been the Northern Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin & Purdue games.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Did he play QB in those games? Yes or no? Did he also play WR in those games? Yes or no? Why did he not play a snap at QB during a game where we came in 1-7 (zero possibility of a bowl bid) and were defeated at home by 7 TDs?

Brewster not playing Gray at QB for every single minute of the last 4 games of the 2010 season (at bare minimum) is his single most damaging legacy as Gophers head coach.
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Brewster wasn't even the head coach for the last 4 games of 2010, so I don't know how he could have played Gray. As I stated earlier, Gray was Brewster's signature recruit. He had every reason in the world to play him. The only reason he wouldn't have is because he knew that we wasn't ready to be an every down QB and that his passing and potentially other areas needed to be improved in practice before he was ready to play in a game. The fans all had the idea that Q was on the cusp and just needed a few reps, but the beginning of last season proved otherwise. Brewster's failure wasn't keeping MarQueis from playing QB in the 4th quarter of a 40 point loss, it was that he never developed a "team" that could compete and avoid those type of blowout losses.
 

My mistake guys. I somehow totally forgot about Brewster being fired after Purdue 2010. The point is made even stronger by that, though. Brewster could at least reason that Weber would somehow "get it" after 3.5 years of starting that would lead them on a run of wins and perhaps save his job. Horton had a zero chance of ever earning the HC job regardless of what he did. In my opinion, he owed it to the program and the next head coach to play the young guys as much as possible after a bowl bid became impossible.
 

dpodoll68 said:
My mistake guys. I somehow totally forgot about Brewster being fired after Purdue 2010. The point is made even stronger by that, though. Brewster could at least reason that Weber would somehow "get it" after 3.5 years of starting that would lead them on a run of wins and perhaps save his job. Horton had a zero chance of ever earning the HC job regardless of what he did. In my opinion, he owed it to the program and the next head coach to play the young guys as much as possible after a bowl bid became impossible.
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I couldn't disagree more. Each college football game is special and worth winning. We owe the victory over Iowa at the end of 2010 in large part to Adam Weber and the other seniors that played a big role. I would never trade in that win and my memories of being on the field after the game so that we could have let the young guys get experience.
 

John Galt said:
I couldn't disagree more. Each college football game is special and worth winning. We owe the victory over Iowa at the end of 2010 in large part to Adam Weber and the other seniors that played a big role. I would never trade in that win and my memories of being on the field after the game so that we could have let the young guys get experience.
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For me, I wasn't talking about giving Gray starts, I was talking about Gray getting snaps in mop-up duty.

I agree with you about how important every single football game is. The Iowa win at the end of 2010 was one of my most memorable college football games.

That said, I think when the game is pretty much over, it's time for you to get underclassmen some reps. That's all. If they aren't ready and they stink, well the game is already over.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
For me, I wasn't talking about giving Gray starts, I was talking about Gray getting snaps in mop-up duty.

I agree with you about how important every single football game is. The Iowa win at the end of 2010 was one of my most memorable college football games.

That said, I think when the game is pretty much over, it's time for you to get underclassmen some reps. That's all. If they aren't ready and they stink, well the game is already over.
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This. It was Weber's team (more or less), but once the outcomes had been decided, it was time for someone else to take a few snaps. The "he's not ready" arguement doesn't hold any water with me. Most college quarterbacks have been playing the position their entire lives. You aren't going to derail someone's confidence so badly that they don't ever recover by playing someone who's "not ready". When the outcome's been decided, it's time to get the second/third stringers some in-game experience. Unless you're stupidly burning a redshirt (see: McKnight, Da'Jon).
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
This. It was Weber's team (more or less), but once the outcomes had been decided, it was time for someone else to take a few snaps. The "he's not ready" arguement doesn't hold any water with me. Most college quarterbacks have been playing the position their entire lives. You aren't going to derail someone's confidence so badly that they don't ever recover by playing someone who's "not ready". When the outcome's been decided, it's time to get the second/third stringers some in-game experience. Unless you're stupidly burning a redshirt (see: McKnight, Da'Jon).
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Ryan Collado would beg to differ his first few years. Hats off to him though for putting it together and having a stellar senior season.

I'm all for letting back-ups get some minutes in blowouts. If they don't see the field even during garbage time, it's usually an indictment on where they are currently at as a player or on the coach who has failed to properly develop them. I don't believe that everyone who was a redshirt freshmen or older got in the game last year in the 2nd half against Michigan.
 

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