Illinois QB Chris Streveler a Gopher commit

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John Galt said:
Ryan Collado would beg to differ his first few years. Hats off to him though for putting it together and having a stellar senior season.

I'm all for letting back-ups get some minutes in blowouts. If they don't see the field even during garbage time, it's usually an indictment on where they are currently at as a player or on the coach who has failed to properly develop them. I don't believe that everyone who was a redshirt freshmen or older got in the game last year in the 2nd half against Michigan.
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Are you implying that Collado would have had a better career had he not played early? Neither of us could ever know what would have been, but an equally powerful argument is that he was better in his JR and SR seasons at least partially because of his experience. Some of that experience was accumulated his FR season even though he was clearly not ready to play.

Our team last year was a bit weird because we were already playing a lot of younger players, but even last year I think proves my point.

- David Cobb had 54 of his 57 yards and 8 of his 10 carries in the second half of the Michigan game.
- DCT caught his first two passes of the season in the Michigan game.
- Devon Wright had his only carry of the season in the Michigan game.
- Drew Goodger caught 1 of his 2 passes all year in the second half of the Michigan game (his other catch came in the blowout to Nebraska)

- - I'm not sure about the OL because we were so banged up, I don't think we had a lot of depth to bring into the game.
- I could be wrong on this, but I know that is also about the time that Cedric Thompson started getting some playing time, but that might have been Purdue.
- Wells also played significant minutes
- Lamonte Edwards played a ton in the Michigan game (more due to injuries though)
- Other than that, we were already extremely young.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Are you implying that Collado would have had a better career had he not played early? Neither of us could ever know what would have been, but an equally powerful argument is that he was better in his JR and SR seasons at least partially because of his experience. Some of that experience was accumulated his FR season even though he was clearly not ready to play.
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Yes, Collado needed a redshirt year. If we would have had him in the secondary last year, he probably would have been worth an additional 1-2 wins.
 

John Galt said:
Yes, Collado needed a redshirt year. If we would have had him in the secondary last year, he probably would have been worth an additional 1-2 wins.
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Well, without a doubt he needed a RS season but that really isn't applicable to this discussion at all. With Gray, we weren't talking about a player who was RSing. If you made the argument that Gray shouldn't have played in 09 because he should have RS, I think that's valid. Your argument has been that GRay shouldn't have played even though he was burning his eligibility because he was not ready.

So yeah, if we are changing the discussion now, I agree we should have RS Gray and he would only be a JR this coming season. But then immediately after burning his RS season, we should have gotten him snaps in games that were out of hand.

If we are continuing onto the discussion we were having, I don't think playing a player who is already burning their eligibility should sit on the bench during blowouts because they are not ready. I don't think playing before you are 100% ready to play is going to stunt your growth, in fact, I think it will help him gain experience.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Well, without a doubt he needed a RS season but that really isn't applicable to this discussion at all. With Gray, we weren't talking about a player who was RSing. If you made the argument that Gray shouldn't have played in 09 because he should have RS, I think that's valid. Your argument has been that GRay shouldn't have played even though he was burning his eligibility because he was not ready.

So yeah, if we are changing the discussion now, I agree we should have RS Gray and he would only be a JR this coming season. But then immediately after burning his RS season, we should have gotten him snaps in games that were out of hand.

If we are continuing onto the discussion we were having, I don't think playing a player who is already burning their eligibility should sit on the bench during blowouts because they are not ready. I don't think playing before you are 100% ready to play is going to stunt your growth, in fact, I think it will help him gain experience.
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Bob, I'll leave it at this. Some guys just aren't ready to see the field and throwing them out in the 4th quarter of a blowout won't help them develop IMHO. If a QB is only completing 25% of his passes in practice and doesn't know the playbook, if a RB can't hit the right hole, if a WR runs the wrong routes and drops lots of passes, if an O-lineman consistently misses his assignments in practice or is overpowered, I don't really think that playing them in a game will make a difference. I was always taught that you need to be prepared and practice well before you get to see the field in a game. This isn't unique to Brewster not playing Gray, there are many guys on the team last year that didn't see the field despite some of the losses we had and had already redshirted. If Brewster is guilty of not playing Gray in the 4th quarter of a blowout loss, then Kill is just as guilty for not playing Hutton or Wilson.
 



John Galt said:
Bob, I'll leave it at this. Some guys just aren't ready to see the field and throwing them out in the 4th quarter of a blowout won't help them develop IMHO. If a QB is only completing 25% of his passes in practice and doesn't know the playbook, if a RB can't hit the right hole, if a WR runs the wrong routes and drops lots of passes, if an O-lineman consistently misses his assignments in practice or is overpowered, I don't really think that playing them in a game will make a difference. I was always taught that you need to be prepared and practice well before you get to see the field in a game. This isn't unique to Brewster not playing Gray, there are many guys on the team last year that didn't see the field despite some of the losses we had and had already redshirted. If Brewster is guilty of not playing Gray in the 4th quarter of a blowout loss, then Kill is just as guilty for not playing Hutton or Wilson.
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You're forgetting something. The other team usually puts their backups in as well. So what good does it do to keep the starters in against another team's backup in a game where the outcome has already been decided. You're points apply to a game where the outcome is still in jeopardy and both teams are fighting for the victory. They have nothing to do with blowouts. When it comes to gaining experience there is no such thing as a bad rep. Every time a QB is under center, every time a receiver runs a route, every time a lineman puts his hand in the dirt is a valuable experience. Doing these things in front of tens of thousands of people on saturday will give a player experience they could never gain in a practice that's closed to the public. The first time these players step on to a football field for a college game is something they will never forget. Knowing what it feels like to step across those white lines on Saturday is invaluable to helping these kids know what it takes to be prepared to one day be the QB under center when the game is on the line, be the receiver running the route with the result hanging in the balance, be the lineman putting his hand in the dirt with his team knocking on the goal line down by 4. However, an exception can be made for a underclassmen who is seeing the field as a first year starter. At that point, he is not only gaining experience that will help the team in the future but also in the present. In every game, there is point where the coach decides whether to keep his starters in and fight for the victory or begin focusing on the future and longevity of his program.

Hutton and Wilson are never going to have the impact on the program that Gray was going to besides theres a difference between putting in the #2 QB and the #9 & #10 WRs. He said put the backups in not empty the bench.
 

At the time, the Gophers were pretty talent poor, so redshirting was not really much of an option for many of the players. It is also what Coach Kill has had to navigate...who to redshirt and who to burn the RS because of lack of quality depth. Though I believe Brew brought in a little talent (Gray for one) the whole carrousel of coaching moves/issues left the players pretty messed up IMO.
 

cjcarter8 said:
You're forgetting something. The other team usually puts their backups in as well. So what good does it do to keep the starters in against another team's backup in a game where the outcome has already been decided. You're points apply to a game where the outcome is still in jeopardy and both teams are fighting for the victory. They have nothing to do with blowouts. When it comes to gaining experience there is no such thing as a bad rep. Every time a QB is under center, every time a receiver runs a route, every time a lineman puts his hand in the dirt is a valuable experience. Doing these things in front of tens of thousands of people on saturday will give a player experience they could never gain in a practice that's closed to the public. The first time these players step on to a football field for a college game is something they will never forget. Knowing what it feels like to step across those white lines on Saturday is invaluable to helping these kids know what it takes to be prepared to one day be the QB under center when the game is on the line, be the receiver running the route with the result hanging in the balance, be the lineman putting his hand in the dirt with his team knocking on the goal line down by 4. However, an exception can be made for a underclassmen who is seeing the field as a first year starter. At that point, he is not only gaining experience that will help the team in the future but also in the present. In every game, there is point where the coach decides whether to keep his starters in and fight for the victory or begin focusing on the future and longevity of his program.

Hutton and Wilson are never going to have the impact on the program that Gray was going to besides theres a difference between putting in the #2 QB and the #9 & #10 WRs. He said put the backups in not empty the bench.
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I agree with all of this, except your assumption that Gray was close. I don't think he was based on what we saw early last season. Brewster had every reason in the world to get him experience and didn't. We could speculate forever on why that was.

My initial reaction was to DPO's statement: Brewster not playing Gray at QB for every single minute of the last 4 games of the 2010 season (at bare minimum) is his single most damaging legacy as Gophers head coach. I think that statement is flat out terrible.
 




John Galt said:
This isn't unique to Brewster not playing Gray, there are many guys on the team last year that didn't see the field despite some of the losses we had and had already redshirted. If Brewster is guilty of not playing Gray in the 4th quarter of a blowout loss, then Kill is just as guilty for not playing Hutton or Wilson.
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You can't lump Hutton and Wilson in with Gray. Gray was the obvious heir apparent to Weber. He was the backup QB and almost for sure was going to be the QB to follow Weber. Hutton and Wilson would be more akin to Adam Lueck. I don't think Kill thinks Hutton or Wilson will ever be much of a factor at the U (the reason we recruit like they aren't on the roster). I can't think of a single player who was burning their RS that didn't play in blowouts (besides players who were nowhere on the depthchart / prospective depth chart for future seasons).

Who from that freshman class last year was 2nd or 3rd string that didn't see a lot of time in blowouts? No one.
You could make an argument that Levine didn't play a lot even in blowouts, but that's because the 2nd string safeties were both true freshman who saw a lot of PT in blowouts.

If you see an underclassman that is 2nd or 3rd on the depth chart who doesn't see PT in blowouts, than Kill is wrong not to play them (unless he feels like they will never play). If we think Nelson should be the backup QB next year and he holds on kicks but doesn't play in blowouts, I'd rip on Kill for that too.

Your future at positions need to play mop-up duty.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You can't lump Hutton and Wilson in with Gray. Gray was the obvious heir apparent to Weber. He was the backup QB and almost for sure was going to be the QB to follow Weber. Hutton and Wilson would be more akin to Adam Lueck. I don't think Kill thinks Hutton or Wilson will ever be much of a factor at the U (the reason we recruit like they aren't on the roster). I can't think of a single player who was burning their RS that didn't play in blowouts (besides players who were nowhere on the depthchart / prospective depth chart for future seasons).

Who from that freshman class last year was 2nd or 3rd string that didn't see a lot of time in blowouts? No one.
You could make an argument that Levine didn't play a lot even in blowouts, but that's because the 2nd string safeties were both true freshman who saw a lot of PT in blowouts.

If you see an underclassman that is 2nd or 3rd on the depth chart who doesn't see PT in blowouts, than Kill is wrong not to play them (unless he feels like they will never play). If we think Nelson should be the backup QB next year and he holds on kicks but doesn't play in blowouts, I'd rip on Kill for that too.

Your future at positions need to play mop-up duty.[/QU
no way I would waste a redshirt year to get Nelson mop up duty.
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John Galt said:
I agree with all of this, except your assumption that Gray was close. I don't think he was based on what we saw early last season. Brewster had every reason in the world to get him experience and didn't. We could speculate forever on why that was.

My initial reaction was to DPO's statement: Brewster not playing Gray at QB for every single minute of the last 4 games of the 2010 season (at bare minimum) is his single most damaging legacy as Gophers head coach. I think that statement is flat out terrible.
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I haven't made an assumption that Gray was close. My point is that most coaches put their backups in when a game is out of hand because that is very valuable experience for the underclassmen and benefits the program in the long run. I think the only person that has made an assumption is you. All of you're points are made on the assumption that Brewster could coach.
 

corcoran1 said:
Bob_Loblaw said:
You can't lump Hutton and Wilson in with Gray. Gray was the obvious heir apparent to Weber. He was the backup QB and almost for sure was going to be the QB to follow Weber. Hutton and Wilson would be more akin to Adam Lueck. I don't think Kill thinks Hutton or Wilson will ever be much of a factor at the U (the reason we recruit like they aren't on the roster). I can't think of a single player who was burning their RS that didn't play in blowouts (besides players who were nowhere on the depthchart / prospective depth chart for future seasons).

Who from that freshman class last year was 2nd or 3rd string that didn't see a lot of time in blowouts? No one.
You could make an argument that Levine didn't play a lot even in blowouts, but that's because the 2nd string safeties were both true freshman who saw a lot of PT in blowouts.

If you see an underclassman that is 2nd or 3rd on the depth chart who doesn't see PT in blowouts, than Kill is wrong not to play them (unless he feels like they will never play). If we think Nelson should be the backup QB next year and he holds on kicks but doesn't play in blowouts, I'd rip on Kill for that too.

Your future at positions need to play mop-up duty.[/QU
no way I would waste a redshirt year to get Nelson mop up duty.
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No, either would I. I was just trying to think of a hypothetical that worked the same as the Gray situation.

I guess, lets assume that Nelson was a RS-FR this season, he should get snaps behind Gray in mop-up duty. Or this year, Shortell should get reps if any games are out of hand...
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1 quick point - some guys are not great "practice" players, but put them in a game and they can look like a different player. some people just need to be in that game situation to get the adrenaline going. That, to me, is one of the ultimate tests of a coaching staff - being able to tell the difference between a player who's 'not ready,' and a player who need to be in a game situation to reach his potential. Sometimes, the only way to tell the difference is to put that player in a game, and see if the light comes on. Obviously, I don't attend Gopher FB practices, but maybe Gray falls into that category - (and maybe, the Brew Crew couldn't figure that out........)
 

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