Home loss to a poor Summit League team in year 3

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short ornery norwegian said:
my biggest concern with Pitino continues to be the big men- or lack thereof. The Gopher coaches knew they were losing Mo and EE, but they went into the season with two (my opinion) extreme projects in Konate and Gaston. The transfers should help next year, but for this year, I personally would have tried to find a JUCO big man who could have contributed immediately.

I have to assume that Pitino is trying to win games this year, but I have this (possibly) irrational feeling that this year is all about developing the FR class, while waiting for the transfers to become eligible, and adding the recruits next year. In other words, I'm not sure Pitino really cares how many games they win this year - I get the sense the coaches are already planning for next year as the breakout year, and are treating this season like extended practice for the FR, so they are ready to contribute next year when the season really counts.
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+1 He has definitely squandered some scholarships. Potential is there but Richard might have misjudged how soon he could use it. The difference between when Murphy was in there and when Konate was in there was startling last night.
 

Tater said:
I really don't care for Dpo's Schtick, but he's right here. We should feel embarrassed with today's loss and quality coaches just don't lose games like these. USD was undersized and under-talented,yet we crapped the bed. I think there is a slimmer of hope,where Pitino brings it next year. But right now, it looks like we are a bottom of the BigTen team. Pitino deserves criticism.
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Umm, I don't think everyone was hoping for that. I know I wasn't.

Deeps' love for Tubby is 'interesting'........still trying to think of a better description.

Dismissing Tubby, and the current coaching situation; are two separate issues and Deeps knows it.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
The Gopher coaches knew they were losing Mo and EE, but they went into the season with two (my opinion) extreme projects in Konate
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Konate did have 14 and 10 two games ago, he has some skill and potential, wouldn't call him an extreme project. They need to get him the ball when he is posting up and let him work, didn't see them feed him once when he was in good position.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I'm not pro-Tubby, I'm pro-making the NCAA Tournament and winning games there. Pitino has no chance to equal his predecessor's record here, and will be lucky to make it to a 6th season. Somehow three appearances in six years wasn't good enough, yet zero in three years (not looking promising for the 4th either) gets you patience and excuse-making.
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Just so I can lock you down now, what would be your thoughts on Pitino's record vs Tubby's if, hypothetically, in Pitino's first 6 years he only gets two tournament appearances, but either gets to the round of 32 both times or the Sweet 16 once?
 

HOOP DREAMS said:
Konate did have 14 and 10 two games ago, he has some skill and potential, wouldn't call him an extreme project. They need to get him the ball when he is posting up and let him work, didn't see them feed him once when he was in good position.
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He isn't fed very much but perhaps 1) the feeders are aware that interior feeds to him have a fair probability of resulting in turnovers because of his stone hands and his reluctance to out jump his defenders and 2) the feeders may doubt their own abilities to convert the pass.
 


Mulligan said:
+1 The difference between when Murphy was in there and when Konate was in there was startling last night.
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Certainly was. I could feel the sense of dread in the building when Murphy fouled out.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I'm not pro-Tubby, I'm pro-making the NCAA Tournament and winning games there. Pitino has no chance to equal his predecessor's record here, and will be lucky to make it to a 6th season. Somehow three appearances in six years wasn't good enough, yet zero in three years (not looking promising for the 4th either) gets you patience and excuse-making.
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Are you also all for never having a winning conference season in 6 attempts? If you're so convinced that Pitino will never be successful here, you don't think he could ever possibly have a winning conference record here, right? I mean, if Tubby almighty couldn't, surely you're convinced Pitino can't either. Well, let's see you put your money where your obnoxious mouth is: let's make a bet. IF Pitino gets 6 years here, I bet you $50 that he has at least one season with a winning record in conference.

I'm excited to hear what excuse you have if you don't take the bet because you're scared. I would much rather you actually take the bet, however. I'm good for the money via Paypal... don't give your classic excuse of assuming the other person won't pay up. Also, failure to respond is equivalent to being too scared to take the bet--everyone knows you will read every single post in your troll thread. Hope it made you feel better!
 

short ornery norwegian said:
my biggest concern with Pitino continues to be the big men- or lack thereof. The Gopher coaches knew they were losing Mo and EE, but they went into the season with two (my opinion) extreme projects in Konate and Gaston. The transfers should help next year, but for this year, I personally would have tried to find a JUCO big man who could have contributed immediately.

I have to assume that Pitino is trying to win games this year, but I have this (possibly) irrational feeling that this year is all about developing the FR class, while waiting for the transfers to become eligible, and adding the recruits next year. In other words, I'm not sure Pitino really cares how many games they win this year - I get the sense the coaches are already planning for next year as the breakout year, and are treating this season like extended practice for the FR, so they are ready to contribute next year when the season really counts.
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Pitino tried to bring in Boucher but Oregon came in an swooped him up. JUCO's are extremely hit and miss anyways.
 

It's funny. All the reasons people cite why Tubby should have been fired (coasting, Big Ten win%, etc.), the OP used to justify the firing of Glen Mason.

Then when the new coach struggled, the OP would put some of the blame on Mason and his lazy recruiting.

Four years (!) after Mason was fired: "I'll stop talking about Mason just as soon as all of his recruits have exhausted their eligiblity" - dpo
 



underground629 said:
Are you also all for never having a winning conference season in 6 attempts? If you're so convinced that Pitino will never be successful here, you don't think he could ever possibly have a winning conference record here, right? I mean, if Tubby almighty couldn't, surely you're convinced Pitino can't either. Well, let's see you put your money where your obnoxious mouth is: let's make a bet. IF Pitino gets 6 years here, I bet you $50 that he has at least one season with a winning record in conference.

I'm excited to hear what excuse you have if you don't take the bet because you're scared. I would much rather you actually take the bet, however. I'm good for the money via Paypal... don't give your classic excuse of assuming the other person won't pay up. Also, failure to respond is equivalent to being too scared to take the bet--everyone knows you will read every single post in your troll thread. Hope it made you feel better!
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One 10-8 Big Ten record equals 3 Tournament appearances and a Tournament win? You're hilarious. Make the bet that Pitino has at least 3 Tournament appearances and at least one Tournament win at Minnesota (which is actually what I said, not what you like to pretend that I said ) and I'll take that bet any day.
 

Maximus said:
It's funny. All the reasons people cite why Tubby should have been fired (coasting, Big Ten win%, etc.), the OP used to justify the firing of Glen Mason.

Then when the new coach struggled, the OP would put some of the blame on Mason and his lazy recruiting.

Four years (!) after Mason was fired: "I'll stop talking about Mason just as soon as all of his recruits have exhausted their eligiblity" - dpo
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Yeah, those arguments don't apply because Tubby's best season at Minnesota was his last.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Yeah, those arguments don't apply because Tubby's best season at Minnesota was his last.
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None of those arguments apply? How often do you cite 3 trips to the tourney in six years...best stretch in school history? How many times did you dismiss five straight bowl bids for Mase....best stretch in school history?

Recruiting late in his tenure....which was very important for you with Mason (remember, he checked out after the 2003 Michigan game)...didn't matter with Tubby (Ellis, Foster, Mav, Oto, etc.).
 




dpodoll68 said:
Yeah, those arguments don't apply because Tubby's best season at Minnesota was his last.
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I was in the camp that said after getting to the round of 32, Tubby deserved one more year. That said, even his last year was pretty frustrating.

We finished 8-10 in conference, 6 games off of the conference title. That was made all the more frustrating by the 3-8 run we went on (featuring the late game collapses that characterized too much of the Tubby era) after reaching number 8 in the rankings. We went from the 8th ranked team in the country, to failing to secure one of the 8 top seeds in our own conference tournament. That penchant for blowing late leads showed itself again as we should have had our first round BTT game against Illinois locked up but managed to choke that one away too.

I know regular season games don't mean anything to you, but you are pretty much the only person I have heard say that your conference record doesn't matter in a college sport. I could get on board with "I don't care what our conference record was because we won the national championship" (UConn), and I might have even settled for "I don't care what our conference record was because we went on a tournament run that extended beyond the first weekend." But I can't get on board with "I don't care that we only won 43% of our conference games because he was a top-notch postseason performer who led us to a 25% winning percentage in NCAA tournament games." You say conference record doesn't matter, only NCAA tournament appearances and performances. One could just as easily say only national and conference championships matter, and how far you go in the tournament is a measure of how close to the national title you were, just like your conference record is a measure of how close to the conference championship you were.

You also compare Tubby favorably to history a lot. However, your methods are flawed, because in recent history, we only had prior to Tubby a coach who had his seasons vacated (so I would expect you or I to be able to beat those seasons as coach), or a coach playing under actual handicaps (NCAA sanctions, not subjective difficulties we like to whine about in Minnesota). That doesn't leave a whole lot of room for comparison before you get back to when the NCAA field was expanded, so making the tournament meant something different. As Maximus pointed out, Mason was one of the best Gopher coaches ever in terms of making bowl games.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I know regular season games don't mean anything to you, but you are pretty much the only person I have heard say that your conference record doesn't matter in a college sport. I could get on board with "I don't care what our conference record was because we won the national championship" (UConn), and I might have even settled for "I don't care what our conference record was because we went on a tournament run that extended beyond the first weekend." But I can't get on board with "I don't care that we only won 43% of our conference games because he was a top-notch postseason performer who led us to a 25% winning percentage in NCAA tournament games." You say conference record doesn't matter, only NCAA tournament appearances and performances. One could just as easily say only national and conference championships matter, and how far you go in the tournament is a measure of how close to the national title you were, just like your conference record is a measure of how close to the conference championship you were.
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I've never said any of these things. I've accurately stated that conference record matters from the standpoint of whether or not it gets you into the Tournament. Winning your conference is awesome, but there's really no difference between 2nd and 9th, assuming that 9th gets you into the Tournament. Teams finish lower in their conference and make Tournament runs frequently. People harp on conference record because it bugs them so much that Tubby was successful here by Minnesota standards and they don't want to give him credit for it. People mistakenly think that I "love Tubby", but what I actually love are making Tournament appearances and winning games there. I've been a Gophers fan long enough to know that it was extremely unlikely for Minnesota to secure the services of anyone matching that (admittedly quite modest) level of success, and my prediction is being borne out as we are bearing the cost of OJT for an inexperienced coach who is certainly not ready right now and may never be.
 


First of all, I am wondering where Tiny is???? Then, let's talk about die-hard (?) fans here. You made excuses for Richard for the last 2 years that he didn't have his own players. This year, you have been saying that his players are young and inexperienced. We have heard it all. We have heard of this magical Richard system that I am not sure if anybody knows what it is. We have heard that Richard is a good recruiter but yet to see him get a decent center. We really have heard it all. We have heard that this year was going to be a rebuilding year. Next year, we'll hear that player are raw just give them a year or two. Good lord people. You wanted Tubby out that badly? If you did, this is what you wished for. Tubby was going to bring at least 2 of the big 3 last year. This program would have been in so much better shape than it is now. But wait, Tubby had to go since this program was going to wrong direction. We did get what we wished for. Meanwhile, people at TT are enjoying an RPI of 7th in the nation and soon will be in top 25 with that guy who couldn't coach to save his life in MN.
For now, we keep cheering for Richard and his magical system.
 

dpodoll68 said:
People harp on conference record because it bugs them so much that Tubby was successful here by Minnesota standards and they don't want to give him credit for it.
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Mason was successful here by Minnesota standards. This was your reaction:

dpodoll68 said:
If 32-48 is the highwater mark for the next 25 years, that is extremely depressing and we should all just bail out now.
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The-Real-Truth said:
First of all, I am wondering where Tiny is???? Then, let's talk about die-hard (?) fans here. You made excuses for Richard for the last 2 years that he didn't have his own players. This year, you have been saying that his players are young and inexperienced. We have heard it all. We have heard this magical Richard system that I am not sure if anybody knows what it is. We have heard that Richard is a good recruiter but yet to see him get a decent center. We really have heard it all. We have heard that this year was going to be a rebuilding year. Next year, we'll hear that player are raw just give them a year or two. Good lord people. You wanted Tubby out that badly? If you did, this is what you wished for. Tubby was going to bring at least 2 of the big 2 last year. This program would have been in so much better shape than it is now. But wait, Tubby had to go since this program was going to wrong direction. We did get what we wished for. Meanwhile, people at TT are enjoying an RPI or 7th in the nation and soon will be in top 25 with that guy who couldn't coach to save his life in MN.
For now, we keep cheering for Richard and his magical system.
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mHM3DMk.gif
 

Maximus said:
Mason was successful here by Minnesota standards. This was your reaction:
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10>6. Also, once again, you might have a point if Mason were fired post-year 6 after winning 8 games and the Music City bowl, not after squeaking into a bowl game and losing in historically bad fashion in year 10.
 


Why cant the Tubby firing and the Pitino hiring be mutually exclusive events again?
 

dpodoll68 said:
10>6. Also, once again, you might have a point if Mason were fired post-year 6 after winning 8 games and the Music City bowl, not after squeaking into a bowl game and losing in historically bad fashion in year 10.
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That makes sense. Winning 5 of your last 16 games to "easily" reach the NCAA Tournament, win one game, be down 21 points to Florida at half, have the second worst NCAA tournament loss (14 points) in school history. Completely different.
 


Maximus said:
Tubby's magical recruiting which landed how many decent point guards in six years?
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Andre Hollins was all-conference as a PG. How many all-conference post players has Pitino recruited?
 




Murphy is the kind of player that gives me hope that Pitino can identify and recruit who he needs to, so is Mason. Konate and Diedu make me question his sanity, but may have been the best he could get at the time. IF Pitino can bring in some more support before Mason graduates I'll call that program growth. Jury is out on this season, need to see another 10 games at least to know if we are really the team that beat Clemson or lost to USD.

The people who say I can't wait to see how this kid or that kid develops are going to be disappointed. It's not a gopher thing or a Pitino thing, but players pretty much enter and leave college basketball looking and playing the same. If they aren't good impact freshman, they won't be impact seniors.
 

LakerFan said:
Murphy is the kind of player that gives me hope that Pitino can identify and recruit who he needs to, so is Mason. Konate and Diedu make me question his sanity, but may have been the best he could get at the time. IF Pitino can bring in some more support before Mason graduates I'll call that program growth. Jury is out on this season, need to see another 10 games at least to know if we are really the team that beat Clemson or lost to USD.

The people who say I can't wait to see how this kid or that kid develops are going to be disappointed. It's not a gopher thing or a Pitino thing, but players pretty much enter and leave college basketball looking and playing the same. If they aren't good impact freshman, they won't be impact seniors.
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Guessing you met Martin not Mason. I agree about Gaston, but I have hope for Konate. I don't think he will become Gorgi Deng. Both should both give solid minutes as upperclassmen. Plenty of guys improve during there four years. Valentine for MSU. Kaminsky at Wisconsin. Austin Hollins didn't do a whole lot his freshman year here, he turned out pretty good. Damian Johnson to name a few.
 

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