Home loss to a poor Summit League team in year 3

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I'm really not all that surprised that the Gophers lost to USD. When the majority of your talent is freshman/sophomores, and you're Minnesota not Duke/Kentucky, there are going to be wild inconsistencies. I think this team will pull off a huge upset this year, but then they'll lose a few more head scratchers to bad teams. For example, I could see the Gophers beating Maryland in February, then losing the next game against Rutgers.

 

[howeda7]

Yeah, those arguments don't apply because Tubby's best season at Minnesota was his last.

No one here is saying the results of Tubby's last season were unacceptable. Do you honestly feel that things were on the upswing given his last two Fall recruiting classes were Wally & Buggs and Alvin Ellis and Alex Foster?

 

[Golden_Sloth]

I was at the game. You are analyzing the game over just the box score? Hhahahahha. Go figure.

Do you have to do this in every thread? We all know you don't like Winasota for some reason, you don't have to remind us by finding a comment to reply to like a snarky child. From now on how about you just write "Winasota is a big doo-doo head" in you diary every night so we don't have to read the same juvenile s*** in every thread.

 

[Ski U Mah Gopher]

I'm really not all that surprised that the Gophers lost to USD. When the majority of your talent is freshman/sophomores, and you're Minnesota not Duke/Kentucky, there are going to be wild inconsistencies. I think this team will pull off a huge upset this year, but then they'll lose a few more head scratchers to bad teams. For example, I could see the Gophers beating Maryland in February, then losing the next game against Rutgers.

Pitino's 2 Gopher squads have each defeated a team that made the Final Four that season.

 

[dpodoll68]

No one here is saying the results of Tubby's last season were unacceptable. Do you honestly feel that things were on the upswing given his last two Fall recruiting classes were Wally & Buggs and Alvin Ellis and Alex Foster?

There's no way to know - it's a pure hypothetical. I do know that you don't fire a guy coming off his best season at the school, assuming no major violations or illegalities occurred. Most if not all of the Iowa fans felt that their football team was headed in a downward spiral after the 2014 season - it's a good thing their AD fired Kirk Ferentz, right?

 

[Tim1406]

I want to say are you kidding me? to this thread... then I realized that people really didn't understand what a bottom 3 big ten team normally does. Last year Nebraska was a bottom three BIG ten school. They lost 4 non-conference games, @Rhoad Island, Incarnate world, Creighton, Hawaii. Rutgers lost to George Washington, St. Peter's, and St. francis (PA) amongst many other non-conference losses. Penn St actually did decently only losing to Charlotte but disappointed greatly in the BIG(did they have any injuries or did they just collapse?)

Get used to it, I'll bet we have 2 more non-conference losses. Am I happy with it? nope. But I see where this program is headed and it looks good. Give it a chance this year. If next year isn't middle of the pack we should be worried(and possibly consider replacement). And if after 2017-2018 we haven't gotten to the NCAA tournament then Pitino should be let go in my mind. But I am an optimist. I think we'll get to the NCAA tournament in 2016-2017 and in 2017-2018.

 

[Tim1406]

There's no way to know - it's a pure hypothetical. I do know that you don't fire a guy coming off his best season at the school, assuming no major violations or illegalities occurred. Most if not all of the Iowa fans felt that their football team was headed in a downward spiral after the 2014 season - it's a good thing their AD fired Kirk Ferentz, right?

Sounds good. We shouldn't have fired Tubby! this is not the first thread that you have made this point. Move on already that was 3 years ago. Please move on. If you are calling for us to fire Pitino that is fine but don't do it by comparing to Tubby and it will make your case stronger.

 

[underground629]

One 10-8 Big Ten record equals 3 Tournament appearances and a Tournament win? You're hilarious. Make the bet that Pitino has at least 3 Tournament appearances and at least one Tournament win at Minnesota (which is actually what I said, not what you like to pretend that I said ) and I'll take that bet any day.

I never said that, nor did I even imply it. Nice try.

Your last sentence doesn't make any sense. Your reading comprehension has been significantly worse lately. Your reading comprehension was the one thing you used to have going for you. Let me distill what I said to make things easier for you:
1) You've made it pretty clear that you think Pitino is a terrible coach and that Tubby is better
2) Tubby never had a winning conference record
3) If you're going to talk so much crap about Pitino and long for Tubby then you should be able to bet that Pitino won't surpass a completely average BT season if your savior Tubby couldn't.

If you can't take that bet you're admitting that you are scared Pitino could have a better conference season than Tubby. This has absolutely nothing to do with the NCAA tournament. The bet has nothing to do with body of work--just conference record. It's fine to admit you're too scared to take the bet. It's what everyone expects of you.

 

[dpodoll68]

I never said that, nor did I even imply it. Nice try.

Your last sentence doesn't make any sense. Your reading comprehension has been significantly worse lately. Your reading comprehension was the one thing you used to have going for you. Let me distill what I said to make things easier for you:
1) You've made it pretty clear that you think Pitino is a terrible coach and that Tubby is better
2) Tubby never had a winning conference record
3) If you're going to talk so much crap about Pitino and long for Tubby then you should be able to bet that Pitino won't surpass a completely average BT season if your savior Tubby couldn't.

If you can't take that bet you're admitting that you are scared Pitino could have a better conference season than Tubby. This has absolutely nothing to do with the NCAA tournament. The bet has nothing to do with body of work--just conference record. It's fine to admit you're too scared to take the bet. It's what everyone expects of you.

Once again - why would I take a bet against something I've never stated? I've never once stated that Pitino couldn't have a better conference record in one season than Tubby. That and 50 cents will get you a cup of coffee at Super America. My last sentence makes perfect sense, btw.

 

[howeda7]

There's no way to know - it's a pure hypothetical. I do know that you don't fire a guy coming off his best season at the school, assuming no major violations or illegalities occurred. Most if not all of the Iowa fans felt that their football team was headed in a downward spiral after the 2014 season - it's a good thing their AD fired Kirk Ferentz, right?

It's not purely hypothetical. We know that Wally was a complete bust. It's unlikely Tubby would have changed that fact. We know that Buggs is just now contributing in a meaningful way, 3 years later. We know that Alex Foster couldn't get minutes for Tubby at Texas Tech, so it's unlikely he would have been any better here. Ellis is the only player of the four who appears to have been an even average recruit, and he's not setting the world on fire. He may have filled in some Spring recruits, but his track record with them was not good. It's not a huge reach to see that 2012/2013 was likely the peak of Tubby's tenure, whether it ended then or 5 years later.

I was not in the the 'fire Tubby' crowd, but I do understand why it was done. Barring a complete 180 in recruiting, you could see the end coming. And when that's the case, it's better to do it a year too soon than a year too late. The fact that the AD turned out to be a sleazeball doesn't change the appropriateness of the decision.

Ferentz is not a good comparison. It's a good example of why firing Glen Mason was a mistake. But Tubby never had the level of success here that Ferentz had at Iowa. If Ferentz's best years had all come at Alabama, and he proceeded to have the streak he had at Iowa prior to this year, he probably wouldn't have survived. But he had earned a far longer leash there than Tubby had here.

 

[dpodoll68]

But Tubby never had the level of success here that Ferentz had at Iowa. If Ferentz's best years had all come at Alabama, and he proceeded to have the streak he had at Iowa prior to this year, he probably wouldn't have survived. But he had earned a far longer leash there than Tubby had here.

If your argument is trajectory, history is irrelevant. The "longer leash" argument is an entirely different one from trajectory.

 

[Otis]

Ferentz is not a good comparison. It's a good example of why firing Glen Mason was a mistake. But Tubby never had the level of success here that Ferentz had at Iowa. If Ferentz's best years had all come at Alabama, and he proceeded to have the streak he had at Iowa prior to this year, he probably wouldn't have survived. But he had earned a far longer leash there than Tubby had here.

Probably wouldn't have survived? Lol! Did you not see what LSU almost did to Les Miles?

Tubby also had his kid on the coaching staff with a DUI. Don't bring up Kimani's drug bust, The U loves reclamation projects. Just not someone from their own staff! i.e. you can screw up elsewhere and be reborn here. Just don't screw up here.

 

[golfing18now]

For me, evaluating a coach is a comparison of results against expectations. Year one of Pitino exceeded my expectations. Year two was definitely less than my expectations. My expectation for year three is pretty low given the current make-up of the roster (very little experience). College sports will always be cyclical to some extent for the majority of teams. Year four should be a significant step forward. The jury is still out on Pitino. As silly as it is to dwell on one loss this year against South Dakota, it would be equally silly to extend him ten years because he beat a final four team on the road last year. We simply need a longer evaluation period to arrive at a better conclusion.

In Tubby's case, it is interesting that most of us did want the administration to move on even after his best tournament run here. DPO is technically right in that regard. I think it is primarily because that team had raised such high expectations after ascending to #8 in the country that almost any outcome short of a Sweet Sixteen run felt like underachievement. It was a good year that felt like a wasted opportunity. Couple that with what appeared to be a downturn in recruiting and it felt like the right time to make a move.

Time will tell.

 

[DeathClutch]

For me, evaluating a coach is a comparison of results against expectations. Year one of Pitino exceeded my expectations. Year two was definitely less than my expectations. My expectation for year three is pretty low given the current make-up of the roster (very little experience). College sports will always be cyclical to some extent for the majority of teams. Year four should be a significant step forward. The jury is still out on Pitino. As silly as it is to dwell on one loss this year against South Dakota, it would be equally silly to extend him ten years because he beat a final four team on the road last year. We simply need a longer evaluation period to arrive at a better conclusion.

In Tubby's case, it is interesting that most of us did want the administration to move on even after his best tournament run here. DPO is technically right in that regard. I think it is primarily because that team had raised such high expectations after ascending to #8 in the country that almost any outcome short of a Sweet Sixteen run felt like underachievement. It was a good year that felt like a wasted opportunity. Couple that with what appeared to be a downturn in recruiting and it felt like the right time to make a move.

Time will tell.

+1000 /thread

 

[station19]

That makes sense. Winning 5 of your last 16 games to "easily" reach the NCAA Tournament, win one game, be down 21 points to Florida at half, have the second worst NCAA tournament loss (14 points) in school history. Completely different.

And the one win was against, by ALL ACCOUNTS, a totally disinterested UCLA team that did not show up. Nothing to hang one's hat on.

 

[Maximus]

Most if not all of the Iowa fans felt that their football team was headed in a downward spiral after the 2014 season - it's a good thing their AD fired Kirk Ferentz, right?

Entering 2015 at Iowa, Ferentz had two Big Ten championships, was a three-time Big Ten coach of the year, a national coach of the year, had seven finishes above .500 in the B1G (I know, what a concept), six bowl game wins.

Tubby had one tournament win in six years with no Big Ten finishes above .500.

Valid comparison.

 

[station19]

Coach X:

yr 1....2-24
yr 2....3-23
yr 3....4 -21
yr 4....3-23
yr 5....4-21
yr 6....5-21



Can't fire him because he just had his best year.

Deeps, please drop this argument.

 

[Bad Gopher]

For me, evaluating a coach is a comparison of results against expectations. Year one of Pitino exceeded my expectations. Year two was definitely less than my expectations. My expectation for year three is pretty low given the current make-up of the roster (very little experience). College sports will always be cyclical to some extent for the majority of teams. Year four should be a significant step forward. The jury is still out on Pitino. As silly as it is to dwell on one loss this year against South Dakota, it would be equally silly to extend him ten years because he beat a final four team on the road last year. We simply need a longer evaluation period to arrive at a better conclusion.

In Tubby's case, it is interesting that most of us did want the administration to move on even after his best tournament run here. DPO is technically right in that regard. I think it is primarily because that team had raised such high expectations after ascending to #8 in the country that almost any outcome short of a Sweet Sixteen run felt like underachievement. It was a good year that felt like a wasted opportunity. Couple that with what appeared to be a downturn in recruiting and it felt like the right time to make a move.

Time will tell.

Very good post, golfing, as usual. IMHO, winning a round-of-64 game in the NCAA's is hardly a run. As success starved as we've been around here recently, we still know what an NCAA run feels like, and that's not it. If that's all you have to show for 6 years at that salary and with those expectations, you can't expect to be secure in your job. Likewise, if that's all Pitino has to show after 6 years, with the highly-ranked players he's recruited and presumably will continue to recruit, he shouldn't be secure at that juncture either.

It's appropriate to be questioning his performance at this time, even though he has a young, rebuilt roster. I have to give him until midway through the conference schedule, at which time I expect to see marked improvement and better cohesion. If we don't, you have to scrutinize his coaching. Not to always talk about the Grinch, but let's be honest here: Bo has far less talent on his roster than this year's Gopher team, and it showed early in their home loss, but they just trounced a Temple team that the Gophs struggled against. There's little question at this point that they'll finish ahead of us in the conference record. South Dakota reminded me a little of Wisconsin - excellent position defense that, despite a lack of quickness and athleticism, allowed the Gophers very few easy baskets or good looks from the perimeter.

The disquieting thing about Pitino so far - and I'm not the first to note it - is the inability to implement his offensive and defensive schemes, particularly full-court pressure defense and fast-break offense. (In contrast, Marlene Stollings had her team playing her schemes well in their first game under her.) Richard may indeed have a deep understanding of exactly how to play full-court D, but teaching such a thing is another matter. How much do his assistant coaches teach, and how good are they at it? How well does he delegate coaching to them? Or does he even have a thorough enough understanding of the offense and defense he wants to see that he's able to teach it? I find this somewhat Monson-esque - Dan hired Mike Peterson to coach his offense, and I think he wanted to run the same flow-tion offense they ran at Gonzaga, but he lacked the understanding of it that Mark Few had. Peterson did the best he could, but he was no Few.

I'm with those who say that, although there are exceptions, it's rare for a coach to come into head coaching fully formed. It's best to cut your teeth at a lower level than the best and best coached conference in the nation.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Part of me now wishes Tubby would have been around for another year. I don't think there is any chance we win 8 conference games the following year with Tubby still coaching. Obviously we will never know but I think year 7 for Tubby would have been a disaster. No Lil Dre, no slimmed down Mo, no King. Instead would have a few recruits that have been very underwhelming so far in the career.

I get that the NCAA tourney is ultimately what should matter, I really think we lucked out some in 2013 and played an overrated UCLA.

I defended Tubby more than just about anyone but I felt it was time to make a change. Just too many disappointing seasons. I felt we had the talent to do a lot more. I didn't see a lot of organization either. Players seemed clueless out there many times. Too many times we were outplayed and outcoached by lesser talent.

With that said, I'm not very optimistic about Pitino right now. I think he should get one more season after this for sure. If we aren't seeing a lot of progress by then, then it is time to move on. Even if that happens though, I don't think it means getting rid of Tubby was the wrong thing to do.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

I've never said any of these things. I've accurately stated that conference record matters from the standpoint of whether or not it gets you into the Tournament. Winning your conference is awesome, but there's really no difference between 2nd and 9th, assuming that 9th gets you into the Tournament. Teams finish lower in their conference and make Tournament runs frequently. People harp on conference record because it bugs them so much that Tubby was successful here by Minnesota standards and they don't want to give him credit for it. People mistakenly think that I "love Tubby", but what I actually love are making Tournament appearances and winning games there. I've been a Gophers fan long enough to know that it was extremely unlikely for Minnesota to secure the services of anyone matching that (admittedly quite modest) level of success, and my prediction is being borne out as we are bearing the cost of OJT for an inexperienced coach who is certainly not ready right now and may never be.

I think at least 90% of college basketball fans would disagree with that statement. If Tubby had avoided his signature February collapse and finished 2nd in the B1G before advancing to the round of 32, he would not have been fired after that season. I don't know if you are a season ticket holder or an avid television watcher or how you choose to enjoy Gopher basketball, but it makes a big difference to win 12 or 13 of the 18 conference games and then get to look down at ten or so teams below you in the standings when compared to winning 8 and looking down at 3 teams.

I should probably bow out of this discussion now, because if I have to try to explain and justify why I believe finishing 2nd and making the tournament is a whole lot better than finishing 9th and making the tournament, then you and I clearly just don't see eye to eye, and nothing either of us type here will change that.

 

[underground629]

Winning your conference is awesome, but there's really no difference between 2nd and 9th, assuming that 9th gets you into the Tournament. Teams finish lower in their conference and make Tournament runs frequently. People harp on conference record because it bugs them so much that Tubby was successful here by Minnesota standards and they don't want to give him credit for it.

I can't believe I somehow missed this gem. You've really raised the standard here. Not only is this completely false, I honestly can't imagine any other fan possibly agreeing with your first statement. I can't tell if this is one of the times you're arguing something you don't believe because for some reason you think it strengthens your argument--it's just too weird and irrational to think anyone could actually believe it.

The irony and hypocrisy in your last statement is priceless coming from the guy who constantly tries to convince us that only tournament APPEARANCES matter. News flash: everyone can see through your BS.

 

[GoldenUMNGopher]

There's no way to know - it's a pure hypothetical. I do know that you don't fire a guy coming off his best season at the school, assuming no major violations or illegalities occurred. Most if not all of the Iowa fans felt that their football team was headed in a downward spiral after the 2014 season - it's a good thing their AD fired Kirk Ferentz, right?

Terrible comparison for a terrible thread.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[bemidjigopher]

Very good post, golfing, as usual. IMHO, winning a round-of-64 game in the NCAA's is hardly a run. As success starved as we've been around here recently, we still know what an NCAA run feels like, and that's not it. If that's all you have to show for 6 years at that salary and with those expectations, you can't expect to be secure in your job. Likewise, if that's all Pitino has to show after 6 years, with the highly-ranked players he's recruited and presumably will continue to recruit, he shouldn't be secure at that juncture either.

It's appropriate to be questioning his performance at this time, even though he has a young, rebuilt roster. I have to give him until midway through the conference schedule, at which time I expect to see marked improvement and better cohesion. If we don't, you have to scrutinize his coaching. Not to always talk about the Grinch, but let's be honest here: Bo has far less talent on his roster than this year's Gopher team, and it showed early in their home loss, but they just trounced a Temple team that the Gophs struggled against. There's little question at this point that they'll finish ahead of us in the conference record. South Dakota reminded me a little of Wisconsin - excellent position defense that, despite a lack of quickness and athleticism, allowed the Gophers very few easy baskets or good looks from the perimeter.

The disquieting thing about Pitino so far - and I'm not the first to note it - is the inability to implement his offensive and defensive schemes, particularly full-court pressure defense and fast-break offense. (In contrast, Marlene Stollings had her team playing her schemes well in their first game under her.) Richard may indeed have a deep understanding of exactly how to play full-court D, but teaching such a thing is another matter. How much do his assistant coaches teach, and how good are they at it? How well does he delegate coaching to them? Or does he even have a thorough enough understanding of the offense and defense he wants to see that he's able to teach it? I find this somewhat Monson-esque - Dan hired Mike Peterson to coach his offense, and I think he wanted to run the same flow-tion offense they ran at Gonzaga, but he lacked the understanding of it that Mark Few had. Peterson did the best he could, but he was no Few.

I'm with those who say that, although there are exceptions, it's rare for a coach to come into head coaching fully formed. It's best to cut your teeth at a lower level than the best and best coached conference in the nation.

I agree with all, but the bold. We don't have two guys like Nigel Hayes and Bronson Koening. Murphy could become a Hayes type and maybe Mason is a poor man's Koening, but they have top end talent that we don't. otherwise I do agree they probably have similar depth issues. They'll probably have a seven man rotation in conference play. We will probably role eight or nine

 

[Bad Gopher]

I agree with all, but the bold. We don't have two guys like Nigel Hayes and Bronson Koening. Murphy could become a Hayes type and maybe Mason is a poor man's Koening, but they have top end talent that we don't. otherwise I do agree they probably have similar depth issues. They'll probably have a seven man rotation in conference play. We will probably role eight or nine

True, Hayes is better than any of our players. Having a superstar makes a big difference on a team.

But it's like Bum Phillips used to say: "He can take his'n and beat your'n, then he can take your'n and beat his'n." He also said, "Coaching is not how much you know. It's how much you can get players to do."

 

[bemidjigopher]

True, Hayes is better than any of our players. Having a superstar makes a big difference on a team.

But it's like Bum Phillips used to say: "He can take his'n and beat your'n, then he can take your'n and beat his'n." He also said, "Coaching is not how much you know. It's how much you can get players to do."

True on any given day the gophers could beat them, but IMO in terms of long term success having those proven difference makers should put Wisconsin in the middle of the pack for the conference

 

[The-Real-Truth]

I think this issue needs to be addressed (not to beat a dead horse); Right before TT vs Gopher game, Tubby mentioned that he was recruiting King. Therefore, King was coming here no matter what. Secondly, Tubby did not push Mo to lose weight because he just had his knee surgery. I know Mo said something about Richard being the motivator but I think Tubby would have done the same thing. If you don't agree, look at TT center who lost tons of weight last summer. About little Dre, I say that was a good recruit only for that season. He disappeared last year. I am not comparing the coaches in this regard. In fact, if one of the key Gophers does get injured this year, I will give Richard a break since it happened during Tubby's time too. I am 100% positive that a player or two will transfer after this season. Richard will get nervous and will run people off the program. I will give him a break in that regard too. I don't wish him to be fired. I only wish that Tubby would have had 2 more years here. He would have had a very good class last year. Unfortunately, NT tried to make a name for himself by firing a HOF coach. Some of the people on this board got what they wished for.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

I think this issue needs to be addressed (not to beat a dead horse); Right before TT vs Gopher game, Tubby mentioned that he was recruiting King. Therefore, King was coming here no matter what. Secondly, Tubby did not push Mo to lose weight because he just had his knee surgery. I know Mo said something about Richard being the motivator but I think Tubby would have done the same thing. If you don't agree, look at TT center who lost tons of weight last summer. About little Dre, I say that was a good recruit only for that season. He disappeared last year. I am not comparing the coaches in this regard. In fact, if one of the key Gophers does get injured this year, I will give Richard a break since it happened during Tubby's time too. I am 100% positive that a player or two will transfer after this season. Richard will get nervous and will run people off the program. I will give him a break in that regard too. I don't wish him to be fired. I only wish that Tubby would have had 2 more years here. He would have had a very good class last year. Unfortunately, NT tried to make a name for himself by firing a HOF coach. Some of the people on this board got what they wished for.

Such a stupid end to your better than usual post.

 

[station19]

I think this issue needs to be addressed (not to beat a dead horse); Right before TT vs Gopher game, Tubby mentioned that he was recruiting King. Therefore, King was coming here no matter what. Secondly, Tubby did not push Mo to lose weight because he just had his knee surgery. I know Mo said something about Richard being the motivator but I think Tubby would have done the same thing. If you don't agree, look at TT center who lost tons of weight last summer. About little Dre, I say that was a good recruit only for that season. He disappeared last year. I am not comparing the coaches in this regard. In fact, if one of the key Gophers does get injured this year, I will give Richard a break since it happened during Tubby's time too. I am 100% positive that a player or two will transfer after this season. Richard will get nervous and will run people off the program. I will give him a break in that regard too. I don't wish him to be fired. I only wish that Tubby would have had 2 more years here. He would have had a very good class last year. Unfortunately, NT tried to make a name for himself by firing a HOF coach. Some of the people on this board got what they wished for.

Six years for Tubby was not enough? Yet people here are saying 3 yrs for Pitino is enough.

 

[scools12]

I think this issue needs to be addressed (not to beat a dead horse); Right before TT vs Gopher game, Tubby mentioned that he was recruiting King. Therefore, King was coming here no matter what. Secondly, Tubby did not push Mo to lose weight because he just had his knee surgery. I know Mo said something about Richard being the motivator but I think Tubby would have done the same thing. If you don't agree, look at TT center who lost tons of weight last summer. About little Dre, I say that was a good recruit only for that season. He disappeared last year. I am not comparing the coaches in this regard. In fact, if one of the key Gophers does get injured this year, I will give Richard a break since it happened during Tubby's time too. I am 100% positive that a player or two will transfer after this season. Richard will get nervous and will run people off the program. I will give him a break in that regard too. I don't wish him to be fired. I only wish that Tubby would have had 2 more years here. He would have had a very good class last year. Unfortunately, NT tried to make a name for himself by firing a HOF coach. Some of the people on this board got what they wished for.

NT could have fired the HOF coach after the 2011-12 season. February 26, 2012 was one of most embarrassing efforts by the Gophers in a 19 point home court loss to Indiana. Tubby may have saved his job with a NIT run that year. 2012-13 had the team all the way up to #8 in the country only to lose 10 out of the next 15 conference games during another February collapse which probably is what cost him his job.

Whether Pitino was the right hire remains to be seen but firing Tubby wasn't the wrong thing to do.

 

[Slim Tubby]

Entering 2015 at Iowa, Ferentz had two Big Ten championships, was a three-time Big Ten coach of the year, a national coach of the year, had seven finishes above .500 in the B1G (I know, what a concept), six bowl game wins.

Tubby had one tournament win in six years with no Big Ten finishes above .500.

Valid comparison.

dpodoll only respects facts when they support his agenda. His crap is so deep that he owns nothing but brown shoes.