Hole Poll: What grade would you give the Gophers Class of 2022 recruiting class?

[MNVCGUY]

No one other than you gives a shit about comparisons to Kill and 7 years ago. It’s over, breathe deep. 30% of the class didn’t have other P5 options. You inflated the class due to your blindness for all things Fleck, and since the class is below average in both the B1G and nationally, your only comeback is that it’s better than the last guy 7 years ago.

Disagree wholeheartedly that this is a below average class for the Big Ten or Nationally. But I get that those of you that can't see past the recruiting sites can't understand that and never will.

There is plenty of room for improvement on the recruiting front and we are not recruiting at the level of the helmet schools located in places where there are tons of great players right in their backyard. But we are recruiting at a level that is right in line with the vast majority of the Big Ten so in the majority of our games we will not be at a talent deficit when compared to our opponent.

That wasn't the case prior to Fleck which is why the program struggled to get beyond also ran status.

 

[Gopher Ascension]

No one other than you gives a shit about comparisons to Kill and 7 years ago. It’s over, breathe deep. 30% of the class didn’t have other P5 options. You inflated the class due to your blindness for all things Fleck, and since the class is below average in both the B1G and nationally, your only comeback is that it’s better than the last guy 7 years ago.

Kind of seems like you're the one that needs to breathe deep..... Per 247, 3 of Wisconsin's 14 commits this year don't have P5 offers (21%), and two others have one other P5 offer not counting Wisconsin. The reality is B1G West teams need to trust their evaluations and develop players to achieve success. Not even an established power like Wisco can fill their class with guys overflowing with P5 options.

 

[btowngopher]

Kind of seems like you're the one that needs to breathe deep..... Per 247, 3 of Wisconsin's 14 commits this year don't have P5 offers (21%), and two others have one other P5 offer not counting Wisconsin. The reality is B1G West teams need to trust their evaluations and develop players to achieve success. Not even an established power like Wisco can fill their class with guys overflowing with P5 options.

Exactly, the vast majority of highly rated players are half way across the country in all directions. Expecting top 25 classes consistently at this point is completely unrealistic.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I went with B but it's probably more of a B-.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Elite does not equal the 13th ranked average recruit rating. Elite does not equal the 10th rated talent level. Time will tell where the class lands in terms of performance on the field - as with all classes. We'll know in 5 years how this class really ranks but to me, it's a C.

Fleck is supposedly a better recruiter. The average ranking of the team's total talent has increased marginally since he's been here, going from 12th in the Big to 10th. While the recruiting rankings are subjective at best, so is looking at the P5 offers listed in the 2022 class to those as recent as 2016, and going back to the Mason days, forget it. Recruiting is a much different game today than it was 5 years ago, let alone 25 years ago.

The challenge with comparing our classes to previous Gopher efforts is you can argue our recruits are better compared to previous Gopher efforts, but it leaves out the fact that a number of teams in the Big are also recruiting better. If everyone else had stayed pat in their talent levels and we increased, we'd be touting better than the 10th ranked overall talent in the conference. We're not.

I gave the class a "C" not because I'm comparing it to previous Gopher classes, because I'm comparing us to the rest of the Big Ten. We've taken a step forward in 5 years under fleck. Unfortunately a lot the rest of the Big 10 has taken a step forward as well.

5 years in, few people who believed in Fleck would have said - 5 years in if we have the 13th ranked average talent out of 14 teams and the 10th ranked total talent, I'd give it a B, let alone an A.

I hear a lot of excuses as to why Fleck hasn't done better, but all of them are rebutted by what other teams have been able to do around Fleck.

We can't hope to crack the top 5 based on our situation. But Indiana can? Purdue can?
We can't just rocket up the rankings until we have several big winning season under our belt. But Rutgers can?
It's only class size that has some teams above us. But that isn't a factor in some of why we finished ahead of other teams?
Covid was weird and hurt us. But no other team was impacted by it? 2020 was actually one of our better years in the conference, but we still didn't crack the top three in the division, we came in 5th.

I expect the usual - it's hard to recruit to Minnesota, or this excuse or that excuse, or the other excuse. The reality is it can be done, but Fleck hasn't been able to do it.

Since Fleck came to Minnesota there have been 4 teams from the west ranked in the top 5 a total of 8 times in the conference. Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, and Purdue. There is nothing that says Minnesota can't do the same - except the posters on this board.

You can argue that no West team is in the top 5 this year, but based on numbers, Iowa could end up in the top 5 as easily as Wisconsin is likely, based on the lower number of recruits, to pass us and put us 4th in the division rankings.

Expecting to compete with the top three year in and year out isn't realistic right now, maybe ever, but improved recruiting to me 5 years ago meant at least competing for the top 3 in the division regularly, which we have not done.

As for cracking the top 5 in the conference? We couldn't even do it after an 11 win season and a Division Co-Champions title. Indiana has done it - so far this year - after an 0-9 conference season. Our results after our big season? We ranked 5th in the division.

In Fleck's 6 classes, he's finished 6,2,5,5,4,3 so far in the west. Top 3 in the west exactly one time. If he hangs on to the 3rd spot this year, he'll have two. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone with his recruiting "prowess" to average better than fourth the division.

So yeah. This class is a "C" to me. It does not lift us closer to being a top recruiting team in the West.

Elite people don’t get wrapped up in what some recruiting website is predicting.

 

[pharmacygopher]

Kind of seems like you're the one that needs to breathe deep..... Per 247, 3 of Wisconsin's 14 commits this year don't have P5 offers (21%), and two others have one other P5 offer not counting Wisconsin. The reality is B1G West teams need to trust their evaluations and develop players to achieve success. Not even an established power like Wisco can fill their class with guys overflowing with P5 options.

Also it looks like Iowa has 4 out of 17 (23.5%) of the class with Iowa as their only P5 offer.

The Gophers 26% (5/19) seems competitive with their main rivals in the West.

 

[PhiloVance]

Recap of P.J. Fleck’s GLC luncheon on National Signing Day​

Recap of P.J. Fleck's GLC luncheon on National Signing Day - GopherHole.com

Spencer Alvarez – very very large human being. He got hurt his junior year. He is going to be a tight end, possibly grow into OT. His parents love wine, which we have in common! He’s a legacy player. Maverick Baranowski – He was committed the Air Force with that name. We found a way […]

gopherhole.com

 

[USAF]

Expecting top 25 classes consistently at this point is completely unrealistic.

Not elite.

 

[60's Guy]

Not sure where you get 14 players evaluated by Kill/Claeys that were drafted - unless you are counting Ra'Shede Hageman and Brock Vereen, who were Brewster "evaluations". By my count, Kill/Claeys "evaluated" 12 players during their time at MN who would eventually get drafted:

Cedric Thompson (5th Round, 2015)
David Cobb (5th Round, 2015)
Damien Wilson (4th Round, 2015)
Maxx Williams (2nd Round, 2015)
De'Vondre Campbell (4th Round, 2016)
Eric Murray (4th Round, 2016)
Jalen Myrick (7th Round, 2017)
Blake Cashman (5th Round, 2019)(walk-on)
Carter Coughlin (7th Round, 2020)
Kamal Martin (5th Round, 2020)
Tyler Johnson (5th Round, 2020)
Antoine Winfield (2nd Round, 2020)

Given that Kill/Claeys were hired in December 2010, that means it took 5/6 years to get their first four players drafted (which makes perfect sense given recruiting cycles/player development). For perspective, Kill/Claeys did not produce/develop a single drafted player from 2011-2013 - which of course can be blamed on the Brewster regime's evaluations and not necessarily the fault of Kill/Claeys. Fleck/staff have only failed one year in which they have been coaching - 2018 - to have a player drafted.

Fleck was hired in January 2017. To this point he has put 3 players that he/his staff "evaluated" in the NFL (not to mention developed the entire 2020 draft class + Durr, who were all 2016 signees, essentially their whole careers) in what is now around the same time frame as Kill/Claeys.

Chris Williamson (7th Round, 2020)
Rashod Bateman (1st Round, 2021)
Benjamin St. Juste (3rd Round, 2021)

If I'm not mistaken, Faalele is a Fleck/staff identifed player that will most certainly be drafted, as is Mafe and Big O (admittedly, Big O may not be drafted but is getting some hype). JM Schmitz/CRAB (both Fleck/staff evals) would have been drafted had they declared/will be drafted. That puts Fleck/staff with at least 6-8 drafted players in around the same time frame that the previous regime had 4.

And really, your argument that the linemen Kill/Claeys identified that will now potentially be drafted (I'm guessing you mean Andries/Olson/Schlueter) should somehow be credited to that regime is weak - given the fact that there wasn't a single other lineman drafted under that regime's entire tenure, the players were developed primarily by Fleck/staff, and Fleck/staff will have at least two of "their" OL drafted in the next two years. Also, if you ask me, there's not a shot in hell that Tyler Johnson gets drafted if Kill/Claeys remain the coaches and I would credit Fleck and his staff with his development and eventual drafting, but that, of course, is conjecture. If you want to make the argument that Kill/Claeys were much better identifiers/evaluators of NFL talent, it is, at best, far too early to say that, and quite frankly, given the evidence, an incorrect assertion.

You make a lot of excellent points and spent more time on research than I did. My overall response was to the idea that PJ has elevated recruiting to a level far beyond what we have seen historically at Minnesota. And in truth, it is probably too early to really know but I also don't think it is clear cut that he has overwhelmingly done so.

I just think the previous group identified some pretty good talent and got them on campus.
PJ and his staff developed most of them. Hats off to the staff for that! But it was a discussion on recruiting or evaluation and how far we've come. Bateman was a difference maker. A healthy Mo was a major difference maker. When big Dan was inserted into the lineup, he made a difference. But, in general we seem to have less guys who flash....people other teams scheme against or focus on than the teams who we are playing against, too often.

PJ is doing fine. I think we have an excellent staff. I just feel PJ has the ability to be a much better recruiter than what he has shown so far. Prime and PJ have some personality silimilarities...waiting for PJ to flip a 5 star. DeVondre Campbell was a signing day flip, if I got the right guy? Has PJ made any signing day splashes? We lost our "best" guy last year. Just expect more for PJ to earn an Elite status.

 

[Gopher Ascension]

You make a lot of excellent points and spent more time on research than I did. My overall response was to the idea that PJ has elevated recruiting to a level far beyond what we have seen historically at Minnesota. And in truth, it is probably too early to really know but I also don't think it is clear cut that he has overwhelmingly done so.

I just think the previous group identified some pretty good talent and got them on campus.
PJ and his staff developed most of them. Hats off to the staff for that! But it was a discussion on recruiting or evaluation and how far we've come. Bateman was a difference maker. A healthy Mo was a major difference maker. When big Dan was inserted into the lineup, he made a difference. But, in general we seem to have less guys who flash....people other teams scheme against or focus on than the teams who we are playing against, too often.

PJ is doing fine. I think we have an excellent staff. I just feel PJ has the ability to be a much better recruiter than what he has shown so far. Prime and PJ have some personality silimilarities...waiting for PJ to flip a 5 star. DeVondre Campbell was a signing day flip, if I got the right guy? Has PJ made any signing day splashes? We lost our "best" guy last year. Just expect more for PJ to earn an Elite status.

I agree with most your points. I, like you, think PJ has recruited 2-3 true "difference makers" in Bateman, Mo, and Big Dan (I also think Walley could be in line to be a difference maker but the jury is still out). I think we agree that PJ has not yet elevated the recruiting "far beyond" (your term) what we have traditionally seen, but I do believe that PJ has raised the recruiting to the next step above what we've seen previously (as did the previous regime to their predecessors, IMO).

As far as your comment on guys who "flash" I guess I would want to know your definition of "flash". I think there are a number of guys who could be considered to flash, and if I look to our main rivals (WI, IA) I would say we are just about equal in terms of guys who I consider to "flash" - which, by my definition, would be to possess game changing talent and be projected mid-high in the draft.

In your third paragraph, I also believe PJ can be a much better recruiter, and that has me excited for the future. Losing Dickerson hurt last year, I think that would have been the highest graded recruit PJ/staff secured(?). However, if you consider the Campbell flip a splash (with a .8554 grade via 247), then I would also consider Jah Joyner (.8784, who I believe was a flip but can't recall from where), Hayden Schwartz (.8702, flip from Nebby), and Cade McConnel (.8688, flip from TCU) as signing day splashes. Obviously, it remains to be seen if they produce as well as Campbell did. Also, in my opinion, its not realistic to expect him to flip 5-star recruits like Prime, who has the built in advantage of being perhaps the greatest corner to ever live - and indeed flipped a 5-star corner - and also had the benefit of the recruit receiving a $1.5 million NIL deal from Penn National via Barstool Sports (which Prime is employed/affiliated I'm pretty sure). Not sure if Fleck/staff have that kind of pull or ability to shell out NIL deals haha.

Sorry for another long winded answer but yes, like you, I don't think its fair/accurate to give PJ elite recruiting status as of now, but I do think it is fair to say he is a step up from what we've seen and I'm willing to wait to see how these guys develop!

 

[hungan1]

Mason/Kill brought in players who had very few power 5 options and relied on finding under the radar guys that could be shaped into Big Ten players.

Fleck brings in guys with legit Big Ten and Power 5 options. Compared to his predecessors Fleck has definitely upped the recruiting here.

We aren't out recruiting our key rivals but we are bringing in talent that is on par with the guys they are bringing in. We weren't doing that in the past. This is why we have gone from also ran to contender in the division. The exact recruiting rankings don't mean nearly as much as some want to think they do.

The Allen Trieu stats are astounding. The Big Ten Recruiting Rankings of 1-7 Big Ten East and 8-14 Big Ten West.

There is a geographic advantage being near recruiting hotbeds out in the Eastern Seaboard down the SEC Corridor to Florida.

If it is easy, Iowa, Wisconsin, Northwestern, and soon-to-be Minnesota would/would have been winning the Big Ten Title more often in the East-West division era.

 

[jonnyganas]

Building the program at MN is a marathon process and should never be considered a sprint. And a highly ranked recruiting class is not an indicator of success. We've seen the likes of Nebraska get highly recruited classes only to see 3 win seasons and players flee the program.

You want highly ranked and sustainable recruiting classes? You have to do the right things in the right order to make it happen. It will not happen overnight.

I believe Fleck and his staff are doing that. Building a program with culture and fit, building relationships with nationwide HS programs, getting the most out of their players and developing them into leaders on and off the field who want to compete with and for each other. They've done that and are stacking up conference wins and in the hunt for division titles in recent years. Do this consistently, beat your rivals, put key players in multiple positions into the NFL, address your areas of need year-in and year-out with recruiting and transfers.

See this process through and you will see the results you want: division championships, conference championships, and highly ranked recruiting classes.

 

[hungan1]

There is reason to be disappointed this last season for the setback in recruiting momentum.

Building a house takes a long time. Tearing it down takes minutes. So goes the Gophers journey to a title.

If the Gophers had beaten BGSU, not losing Mo to a season-ending injury, and had beaten both Iowa and Wisconsin there is no doubt that the Gophers can have a few more 4-Star recruits interested. They would have been playing a bowl game in January.

The Mike Sanford, Jr. hire was a mistake. That is on PJ Fleck. Getting Kirk Ciarrocca back is a godsend. Nothing is guaranteed, but I like the Gophers' chances better now for a shot at the Big Ten Title.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I would go with a B-.

But - here is the thing. If you want to be the equal of WI and IA - or move past them, then you have to out-recruit them.

If MN is slightly below WI and IA in the B1G pecking order - and they keep having recruiting classes that are roughly equivalent, then how does MN get an advantage over IA & WI?

Either Fleck has to hit a few HR's in the portal, or he has to find a way to land more highly-rated HS prospects.

If he can't, then MN is right back in the same place as before - looking up at IA and WI. Which, some posters have claimed, is not good enough. at least, it wasn't good enough under previous coaches.

 

[RuesterGAGT]

Building the program at MN is a marathon process and should never be considered a sprint. And a highly ranked recruiting class is not an indicator of success. We've seen the likes of Nebraska get highly recruited classes only to see 3 win seasons and players flee the program.

You want highly ranked and sustainable recruiting classes? You have to do the right things in the right order to make it happen. It will not happen overnight.

I believe Fleck and his staff are doing that. Building a program with culture and fit, building relationships with nationwide HS programs, getting the most out of their players and developing them into leaders on and off the field who want to compete with and for each other. They've done that and are stacking up conference wins and in the hunt for division titles in recent years. Do this consistently, beat your rivals, put key players in multiple positions into the NFL, address your areas of need year-in and year-out with recruiting and transfers.

See this process through and you will see the results you want: division championships, conference championships, and highly ranked recruiting classes.

I think you can expect a bit of both, honestly. You can do things the right way, as you're describing, but also be disappointed with the current class makeup. They're not mutually exclusive.

I have faith Fleck is doing the right things, however I can still think the current class is a C.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I would go with a B-.

But - here is the thing. If you want to be the equal of WI and IA - or move past them, then you have to out-recruit them.

If MN is slightly below WI and IA in the B1G pecking order - and they keep having recruiting classes that are roughly equivalent, then how does MN get an advantage over IA & WI?

Either Fleck has to hit a few HR's in the portal, or he has to find a way to land more highly-rated HS prospects.

If he can't, then MN is right back in the same place as before - looking up at IA and WI. Which, some posters have claimed, is not good enough. at least, it wasn't good enough under previous coaches.

The problem here is saying that Fleck has to out recruit Iowa and Wisconsin by landing a recruiting class that is ranked higher than theirs. Nebraska has been destroying Iowa, Wisconsin, and Minnesota in the recruiting rankings (with the exception of this season). On the same token, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Minnesota usually have classes rated well above Northwestern.

Yet for some reason, Northwestern has won division titles recently and Nebraska has failed to get over .500 in 4 straight seasons.

So yes, Fleck has to out recruit Iowa, and Wisconsin for the Gophers to move past them. But he doesn't have to win the recruiting class rankings to do that. He has to continue to bring in legit power 5 level athletes AND he has to do a better job than those other schools of identifying the RIGHT players.

I would contend that Fleck has already cut the gap with Wisconsin in terms of talent in that we have won or gone to overtime with them in 3 of the last 4 meetings. We haven't gotten the win yet against Iowa but we don't look overmatched against them on the field either.

 

[MGGopher]

Chase Alvarez, Tony Nelson, Ashton Beers, Joey Gerlach, Maverick, Tariq Watson, Nathan Jones. 7 of our 19 recruits didn’t have other P5 offers.

I said this in another thread and have zero intel, but I think Fleck is intentionally recruiting more high ceiling developmental athletes (especially local ones) who KNOW upfront they'll need 2-3 years in the program before they see significant playing time. Guys like that are probably less likely to hit the portal after a year or two, whereas some of the mid 3* guys from out of state have less reason to stick around if they don't play right away (a la Boyd, Gordon, Wiley, Anderson, etc.).

Would Fleck like all 4* guys? Yeah, of course. But that ain't gonna happen, so I think he'll get as many as he can, hit the portal HARD for mature bodies to fill in gaps for 2 years, and recruit more developmental players who can contribute in years 3, 4, and 5. Just my opinion of course...

 

[timj5304]

Firm C. If this is to be believed we're 10th in the conference and 3rd in the B1G west only ahead of NU, IL, NE, and WI. If I'm WI, I'm feeling an F.

Entire Big ten east on the left and entire big ten west on the right

 

[btowngopher]

The problem here is saying that Fleck has to out recruit Iowa and Wisconsin by landing a recruiting class that is ranked higher than theirs. Nebraska has been destroying Iowa, Wisconsin, and Minnesota in the recruiting rankings (with the exception of this season). On the same token, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Minnesota usually have classes rated well above Northwestern.

Yet for some reason, Northwestern has won division titles recently and Nebraska has failed to get over .500 in 4 straight seasons.

So yes, Fleck has to out recruit Iowa, and Wisconsin for the Gophers to move past them. But he doesn't have to win the recruiting class rankings to do that. He has to continue to bring in legit power 5 level athletes AND he has to do a better job than those other schools of identifying the RIGHT players.

I would contend that Fleck has already cut the gap with Wisconsin in terms of talent in that we have won or gone to overtime with them in 3 of the last 4 meetings. We haven't gotten the win yet against Iowa but we don't look overmatched against them on the field either.

Great point. Some of the rankings are so strange. Since it was pointed out the number of our guys that lack P5 offers, I thought it was interesting that both Iowa and Wisconsin's QB commits are rated higher than Knuth even though neither of them have other P5 offers and Knuth was clearly wanted by Iowa before the guy they ended up with. Also why does Emmett Johnson shoot way up the rankings when he commits to Nebraska, I know they say they "re-evaluate" guys, but do they do that every time a guy commits to Minnesota? Seems like it's mostly when we land a guy who had no rating at all.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I know it's not scientific at all and therefore it makes recruiting evaluations sort of like shaking fish bones or reading end trails.

For me, it really depends on the positions the players play and where they are from. I don't really care that Tony Nelson didn't have any other P5 offers. I don't care about his rating. I don't care about Spencer Alvarez's rating. Our staff spotted those guys early and offered them. If you're a local LB, TE, OL . . . the ratings just don't matter as much to me.

On the other hand, I don't think you can compete in big time college football without elite athletes at the skill positions and the DL. We have three of our highest rated DL in Fleck's entire tenure. I really like our QB.

So while I hear people wanting more in terms of ratings. I just think the process is always going to be slower than we want. WI has been good for years and they are still only marginally better than us in terms of recruiting.

I think we need to consistently bring in good athletes, consistently put out a good football team and then those things will just kind of snowball off of each other. I don't think it's realistic to out recruit schools with a drastic geographic advantage.

 

[btowngopher]

I know it's not scientific at all and therefore it makes recruiting evaluations sort of like shaking fish bones or reading end trails.

For me, it really depends on the positions the players play and where they are from. I don't really care that Tony Nelson didn't have any other P5 offers. I don't care about his rating. I don't care about Spencer Alvarez's rating. Our staff spotted those guys early and offered them. If you're a local LB, TE, OL . . . the ratings just don't matter as much to me.

On the other hand, I don't think you can compete in big time college football without elite athletes at the skill positions and the DL. We have three of our highest rated DL in Fleck's entire tenure. I really like our QB.

So while I hear people wanting more in terms of ratings. I just think the process is always going to be slower than we want. WI has been good for years and they are still only marginally better than us in terms of recruiting.

I think we need to consistently bring in good athletes, consistently put out a good football team and then those things will just kind of snowball off of each other. I don't think it's realistic to out recruit schools with a drastic geographic advantage.

The two most important positions in college football according to many are dline and qb. This is where we have seen pretty big strides under Fleck in my opinion.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Thought I'd look at teams in the west to see how the recruiting played out. Just chose Illinois class because it's Bielema's first class and he has the lowest rated top recruit in the West.

Illinois highest rated player is a .8713.

Iowa has 8 rated higher than Illinois top recruit
Northwestern 6
Wisconsin 5
Purdue 3
Minnesota 2
Nebraska 2

 

[gopherdudepart2]

Thought I'd look at teams in the west to see how the recruiting played out. Just chose Illinois class because it's Bielema's first class and he has the lowest rated top recruit in the West.

Illinois highest rated player is a .8713.

Iowa has 8 rated higher than Illinois top recruit
Northwestern 6
Wisconsin 5
Purdue 3
Minnesota 2
Nebraska 2

I would trust Bielema and his staff evaluation over the recruiting services and the Big 10 Network. The rise of the Illini will be the downfall of Northwestern.

 

[Dakota2]

You post your opinion and people loose their shit.... Vanderbilt's class has a higher ranking... Y'all may not like it or try to spin it however you want... Fact of the matter is these services do believe they have a better class as it stands right now... Could fleck n company coach em up to be better yes... Most deffinetly...

I don't know what you all want out of this program.. just to be competitive, win 10+ games every so often...... I personally want to see us in the cfp... Recruits with an .84 score.... Are not going to get you there... If they were.. Alabama, fla, lsu, tosu, atm, all would have rosters constructed with them....

Take a look at the top classes... aTm lowest ranked signee is like .8788.... Their lowest rated... They have 4 top 50 h.s. players committed or signed.... That's what I wish for.... Top 20 finishes every year, replacing not rebuilding.....

Anyways... It's a beautiful 70 degree day in TN today... Y'all enjoy... And I hope last night's storms didn't do a number on ya... Praying for y'all...

How much better will a .8788 be in three years than a guy assigned .8688? Does anybody know?

 

[Dakota2]

I know it's not scientific at all and therefore it makes recruiting evaluations sort of like shaking fish bones or reading end trails.

For me, it really depends on the positions the players play and where they are from. I don't really care that Tony Nelson didn't have any other P5 offers. I don't care about his rating. I don't care about Spencer Alvarez's rating. Our staff spotted those guys early and offered them. If you're a local LB, TE, OL . . . the ratings just don't matter as much to me.

On the other hand, I don't think you can compete in big time college football without elite athletes at the skill positions and the DL. We have three of our highest rated DL in Fleck's entire tenure. I really like our QB.

So while I hear people wanting more in terms of ratings. I just think the process is always going to be slower than we want. WI has been good for years and they are still only marginally better than us in terms of recruiting.

I think we need to consistently bring in good athletes, consistently put out a good football team and then those things will just kind of snowball off of each other. I don't think it's realistic to out recruit schools with a drastic geographic advantage.

Ratings are numbers assigned to individual athletes. Fleck and staff are looking for pieces to fit into a system and a team. They also require guys with character and work ethic.

These recruiting site numbers have very little relevance compared to our staff's evaluation. We had the talent to win the West two of the last three years with no class rankings to indicate that.

 

[BigGopher69]

Recruiting at Minnesota is all about potential and developing players once they get here, sorry guys but I don't think it's realistic for us to have classes full of 4 and 5 star kids every year unless we start winning a ton. I trust pj and his staff to scout and develope his 3 star guys

 

[Five Toes]

You make a lot of excellent points and spent more time on research than I did. My overall response was to the idea that PJ has elevated recruiting to a level far beyond what we have seen historically at Minnesota. And in truth, it is probably too early to really know but I also don't think it is clear cut that he has overwhelmingly done so.

I just think the previous group identified some pretty good talent and got them on campus.
PJ and his staff developed most of them. Hats off to the staff for that! But it was a discussion on recruiting or evaluation and how far we've come. Bateman was a difference maker. A healthy Mo was a major difference maker. When big Dan was inserted into the lineup, he made a difference. But, in general we seem to have less guys who flash....people other teams scheme against or focus on than the teams who we are playing against, too often.

PJ is doing fine. I think we have an excellent staff. I just feel PJ has the ability to be a much better recruiter than what he has shown so far. Prime and PJ have some personality silimilarities...waiting for PJ to flip a 5 star. DeVondre Campbell was a signing day flip, if I got the right guy? Has PJ made any signing day splashes? We lost our "best" guy last year. Just expect more for PJ to earn an Elite status.

I think PJ learned early you can win the West with good Defense. He seems to building a team to first win the West and then Big. Just a thought.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I would trust Bielema and his staff evaluation over the recruiting services and the Big 10 Network. The rise of the Illini will be the downfall of Northwestern.

I think it'll have an impact on Iowa too.

Iowa has 20+ players from Illinois.

 

[Off-GridTNgopher]

I live in TN now. Maybe being around SEC fans have raised my expectations.. because I tell you what. UT brings in a class rated overall at .86..... Shits hitting the fan

 

[gophernut1]

Historically this is an "A." Since Fleck got here this recruiting class would be a "B." Based upon my desires and hopes I give the class a "C."

I have a hard time believing that we shouldn't be a top 25 recruiting class year in and year out. With our great school, opportunity in the Twin Cities, the staff surrounding Fleck and most importantly the leadership of Fleck himself we should be higher. My guess is NIL will drag us down a little, until momentum develops.