Have we officially caught up to Wisconsin?

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62-61-8 with Wisconsin in the lead. However Wisconsin has a 19 game lead since we started playing for the Axe. They have 5 division titles to our 0. 10 Rose bowls to our 2. 3 NY6 games to our 0. Gotta string a couple wins together o win the division to change the narrative.
 

In the last 5 seasons since PJ arrived:

Wisconsin 30-12 in the B1G. 2 division titles, 2 NY6 bowls, 4 bowls overall (soon to be 5)

Minnesota 21-22, 0 divison titles, 0 NY6 bowls, 2 bowls overall (soon to be 3)

Minnesota had a great win Saturday but are nowhere close to Wisconsin as an overall program
 

Xerxes_ said:
In the last 5 seasons since PJ arrived:

Wisconsin 30-12 in the B1G. 2 division titles, 2 NY6 bowls, 4 bowls overall (soon to be 5)

Minnesota 21-22, 0 divison titles, 0 NY6 bowls, 2 bowls overall (soon to be 3)

Minnesota had a great win Saturday but are nowhere close to Wisconsin as an overall program
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Thanks captain
 

Xerxes_ said:
In the last 5 seasons since PJ arrived:

Wisconsin 30-12 in the B1G. 2 division titles, 2 NY6 bowls, 4 bowls overall (soon to be 5)

Minnesota 21-22, 0 divison titles, 0 NY6 bowls, 2 bowls overall (soon to be 3)

Minnesota had a great win Saturday but are nowhere close to Wisconsin as an overall program
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Did you see Saturday's game? If so, was it your impression that Minnesota is "nowhere close" to Wisconsin?

Two wins in our last four against them, with one of our losses in OT. Head-to-head, we're there, right now.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
62-61-8 with Wisconsin in the lead. However Wisconsin has a 19 game lead since we started playing for the Axe. They have 5 division titles to our 0. 10 Rose bowls to our 2. 3 NY6 games to our 0. Gotta string a couple wins together o win the division to change the narrative.
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Division titles :sneaky:

10 Rose Bowls is massive, and the 3 NY6 games is damn good too.
 

You win or lose to WI in the trenches. In '19, WI beat us on both sides of the ball at the line of scrimmage. This year, we didn't overwhelm them, but I'd say we beat them in the trenches. I also think our skill players and young talent are better. I think that's more indicative of where we are as a program and where we're headed. In that regards, I think we've caught up, though certainly understand some people saying we should show it over a few seasons first.
 

RememberMurray said:
Did you see Saturday's game? If so, was it your impression that Minnesota is "nowhere close" to Wisconsin?

Two wins in our last four against them, with one of our losses in OT. Head-to-head, we're there, right now.
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Yes I did see it. One of the best performances from the Gophers in my lifetime.

But as someone else said when Minnesota is the default preseason pick in the West they will have even things out with Wisconsin.

They also had an insane amount of SR starters. 17 I believe. I know Wisconsin's OL and front 7 on D will reload. They've proven it. Minnesota hasn't yet. I'm believe it when I see it.

Iowa was in a rebuilding year. They had a crap OL and a DL that can't pressure the QB, a backup QB, and Tr Fr WRs who drop passes as if the football has been dipped in acid. And Minnesota's SR laden team still couldn't beat them.

Teams like Iowa and Wisconsin don't lose to the BGs and Illinois of the world at home.

When Minnesota can beat a rebuilding Iowa team and Wisconsin in the same season I will say they've closed the gap.
 

Xerxes_ said:
In the last 5 seasons since PJ arrived:

Wisconsin 30-12 in the B1G. 2 division titles, 2 NY6 bowls, 4 bowls overall (soon to be 5)

Minnesota 21-22, 0 divison titles, 0 NY6 bowls, 2 bowls overall (soon to be 3)

Minnesota had a great win Saturday but are nowhere close to Wisconsin as an overall program
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Details details details.....
 



Xerxes_ said:
when Minnesota is the default preseason pick in the West they will have even things out with Wisconsin.
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What some prognosticator thinks before a season starts makes absolutely zero difference. Results on the field matter.
Teams like Iowa and Wisconsin don't lose to the BGs and Illinois of the world at home.
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Wisconsin lost to a bad Illinois team in '19 as 30 point favorites.
 

Marooned said:
What some prognosticator thinks before a season starts makes absolutely zero difference. Results on the field matter.

Wisconsin lost to a bad Illinois team in '19 as 30 point favorites.
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Details, details...
 

Marooned said:
What some prognosticator thinks before a season starts makes absolutely zero difference. Results on the field matter.

Wisconsin lost to a bad Illinois team in '19 as 30 point favorites.
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Not at home
 

MaxyJR1 said:
62-61-8 with Wisconsin in the lead. However Wisconsin has a 19 game lead since we started playing for the Axe. They have 5 division titles to our 0. 10 Rose bowls to our 2. 3 NY6 games to our 0. Gotta string a couple wins together o win the division to change the narrative.
Click to expand...


this is it. Like or or not "Wisconsin" is more of a brand name in college FB compared to "Minnesota."

Now, that can change over time. But for the national perception to change, the Gophers cannot get into a cycle of "good year - not so good year." They have to be good d*mn near every year for a sustained period.

Nothing lasts forever. I lived in Wisconsin during the Don Morton era when Wisconsin was really struggling. Barry Alvarez changed that, and he and the following coaches have been able to sustain it. Can MN do the same? to be determined.
 




Xerxes_ said:
Yes I did see it. One of the best performances from the Gophers in my lifetime.

But as someone else said when Minnesota is the default preseason pick in the West they will have even things out with Wisconsin.

They also had an insane amount of SR starters. 17 I believe. I know Wisconsin's OL and front 7 on D will reload. They've proven it. Minnesota hasn't yet. I'm believe it when I see it.

Iowa was in a rebuilding year. They had a crap OL and a DL that can't pressure the QB, a backup QB, and Tr Fr WRs who drop passes as if the football has been dipped in acid. And Minnesota's SR laden team still couldn't beat them.

Teams like Iowa and Wisconsin don't lose to the BGs and Illinois of the world at home.

When Minnesota can beat a rebuilding Iowa team and Wisconsin in the same season I will say they've closed the gap.
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When Minnesota is the default preseason pick they will not have evened things with wisconsin because it will mean they have passed wisconsin.

When there ISNT a default preseason pick will mean someone in the west has evened wisconsin.


WISCONSIN LITERALLY LOST TO ILLINOIS IN 2019
IOWA LITERALLY LOST TO NDSU IN 2016

you can say things like “these teams don’t lose games like that”

it doesn’t make it true
 

The gap is closing but we won't have caught up until the Gophers beat Wisconsin more regularly and win the west a few times.

I'm still bitter about last year's game, which the Gophers should have won. That would have made it 3 of the last 4 years beating Wisconsin.
 

Xerxes_ said:
Yes I did see it. One of the best performances from the Gophers in my lifetime.

But as someone else said when Minnesota is the default preseason pick in the West they will have even things out with Wisconsin.

They also had an insane amount of SR starters. 17 I believe. I know Wisconsin's OL and front 7 on D will reload. They've proven it. Minnesota hasn't yet. I'm believe it when I see it.

Iowa was in a rebuilding year. They had a crap OL and a DL that can't pressure the QB, a backup QB, and Tr Fr WRs who drop passes as if the football has been dipped in acid. And Minnesota's SR laden team still couldn't beat them.

Teams like Iowa and Wisconsin don't lose to the BGs and Illinois of the world at home.

When Minnesota can beat a rebuilding Iowa team and Wisconsin in the same season I will say they've closed the gap.
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Wisconsin has only won the West once in the last 4 years (co-champs with us technically). Maybe the prognosticators are behind the times in always defaulting to WI. Not sure why they get credit for a preseason pick that ends up being wrong.

And I don't think their record since 2017 is the most proper measure on whether we have caught up to them TODAY.

FWIW my answer to the original question is no, but your reasoning is suspect at best.
 

The reality is we will have caught up to Wisconsin long before it is recognized. There tends to be a lag period between reality and perception. We are as good as Wisconsin today, we were last year, and we were in 2019. Heck arguably by the end of 2018 we were as good as them. They get the benefit of the doubt more than we do from pundits because of their last 30 years of success, but I don't think the 1993 Rose Bowl is relevant to which program is stronger in 2021 and beyond. However, it will take more years and more wins for this to be recognized, both locally and nationally.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
this is it. Like or or not "Wisconsin" is more of a brand name in college FB compared to "Minnesota."

Now, that can change over time. But for the national perception to change, the Gophers cannot get into a cycle of "good year - not so good year." They have to be good d*mn near every year for a sustained period.

Nothing lasts forever. I lived in Wisconsin during the Don Morton era when Wisconsin was really struggling. Barry Alvarez changed that, and he and the following coaches have been able to sustain it. Can MN do the same? to be determined.
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Well, here's a direct comparison between Alvarez and Fleck, so far. I think our guy stacks up pretty well, to date...

Barry Alvarez, first five seasons (conference record in parens):
1990 — 1-10 (0-8)
1991— 5-6 (2-6)
1992 — 5-6 (3-5)
1993 — 10-1-1 (6-1-1)
1994 — 8-3-1 (5-2-1)

P.J.Fleck, first five seasons:
2017 — 5-7 (2-7)
2018— 7-6 (3-6)
2019 — 11-2 (7-2)
2020 — 3-4 (3-4)
2021 — 8-4 (6-3) (Bowl game pending)
 

Here's another relevant comparison...

Kirk Ferentz, first five seasons (conference record in parens):
1999 — 1-10 (0-8)
2000— 3-9 (3-5)
2001 — 7-5 (4-4)
2002 — 11-2 (8-0)
2003 — 10-3 (5-3)

P.J.Fleck, first five seasons:
2017 — 5-7 (2-7)
2018— 7-6 (3-6)
2019 — 11-2 (7-2)
2020 — 3-4 (3-4)
2021 — 8-4 (6-3) (Bowl game pending)
 

RememberMurray said:
Here's another relevant comparison...

Kirk Ferentz, first five seasons (conference record in parens):
1999 — 1-10 (0-8)
2000— 3-9 (3-5)
2001 — 7-5 (4-4)
2002 — 11-2 (8-0)
2003 — 10-3 (5-3)

P.J.Fleck, first five seasons:
2017 — 5-7 (2-7)
2018— 7-6 (3-6)
2019 — 11-2 (7-2)
2020 — 3-4 (3-4)
2021 — 8-4 (6-3) (Bowl game pending)
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Just for a good laugh can you do Scott Frost?
 

I read for months on this board the Badgers were terrible this year. No idea why you were so excited on Saturday about beating such a garbage team.
 

GVBadger said:
I read for months on this board the Badgers were terrible this year. No idea why you were so excited on Saturday about beating such a garbage team.
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Your point isn't lost on me, but do you think anyone here would disagree that Wisconsin improved a TON during the season? Do you disagree? Their OL gelled, the RB was a revelation, and the OC seemed to find more/better ways to use Mertz by giving him simpler reads and taking what the D was giving rather than forcing it downfield constantly. Defense was never a problem and was solid from start to finish. Good FB team. Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa were all pretty equal in my eyes. Each had weaknesses, off weeks, and found ways to win a couple tough games.
 

Yes. Chryst is not in PJ's league. WI on downward trend, Gophers continue upward.
 

MGGopher said:
Your point isn't lost on me, but do you think anyone here would disagree that Wisconsin improved a TON during the season? Do you disagree? Their OL gelled, the RB was a revelation, and the OC seemed to find more/better ways to use Mertz by giving him simpler reads and taking what the D was giving rather than forcing it downfield constantly. Defense was never a problem and was solid from start to finish. Good FB team. Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa were all pretty equal in my eyes. Each had weaknesses, off weeks, and found ways to win a couple tough games.
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I was kidding. Though I think it is kind of funny. I am also shocked at people who are not happy Morgan is coming back. He was fantastic on Saturday.
 

I think it is more a factor of the UW falling off rather than us making huge strides. The West is definitely poised to become more interesting. I think Nebraska will eventually get it figured out and get competitive again. Additionally, I think Illinois might actually have some life in them. Illinois is a true sleeping giant as they can recruit if they have an actual coaching staff and I think they may finally have that. So, while we are improving, so is the level of competition.
 

csom_1991 said:
I think it is more a factor of the UW falling off rather than us making huge strides. The West is definitely poised to become more interesting. I think Nebraska will eventually get it figured out and get competitive again. Additionally, I think Illinois might actually have some life in them. Illinois is a true sleeping giant as they can recruit if they have an actual coaching staff and I think they may finally have that. So, while we are improving, so is the level of competition.
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Iowa: arrow pointing sideways. Ferentz is... Ferentz. Been there forever. What you see is definitely what you get. We've seen their best.

Wisconsin: arrow pointing sideways to slightly downward. Chryst's hold is slipping a bit on the Alvarez wagon. Chryst has backslid from his first few seasons in Madison.

Minnesota: arrow pointing upward. Energy. Enthusiasm. Identity. Focus. Fleck sees Minnesota as a sleeping giant. I think he's spot on.
 

RememberMurray said:
Well, here's a direct comparison between Alvarez and Fleck, so far. I think our guy stacks up pretty well, to date...

Barry Alvarez, first five seasons (conference record in parens):
1990 — 1-10 (0-8)
1991— 5-6 (2-6)
1992 — 5-6 (3-5)
1993 — 10-1-1 (6-1-1)
1994 — 8-3-1 (5-2-1)

P.J.Fleck, first five seasons:
2017 — 5-7 (2-7)
2018— 7-6 (3-6)
2019 — 11-2 (7-2)
2020 — 3-4 (3-4)
2021 — 8-4 (6-3) (Bowl game pending)
Click to expand...

and then Alvarez did this for the next five years

1995: 4-5-2 (3-4-1)
1996: 8-5 (3-5)
1997: 8-5 (5-3)
1998: 11-1 (7-1) won Rose Bowl
1999: 10-2 (7-1) won Rose Bowl

so Fleck has some work to do to keep pace.
 

Xerxes_ said:
In the last 5 seasons since PJ arrived:

Wisconsin 30-12 in the B1G. 2 division titles, 2 NY6 bowls, 4 bowls overall (soon to be 5)

Minnesota 21-22, 0 divison titles, 0 NY6 bowls, 2 bowls overall (soon to be 3)

Minnesota had a great win Saturday but are nowhere close to Wisconsin as an overall program
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You’re nervous.
 

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