Gophers offer JUCO PG Dre Mathieu, will visit May 3

Donate To GopherHole
Gopher Warrior said:
Well... Lew Jack did well at the same size as Mathieu
Click to expand...

How about some love for the PG of the Chicago Bulls ... NATE ROBSINSON!!!!! lol

"God blessed me with a lot heart an no height, and I will take that any day"
 



JimmyJamesMD said:
And besides the Big 3, we've seem to be making inroads on other top recruits. I'd hate to take away an open schollie in 14' for this guy.
Click to expand...

Glad we got him. I'm sick of hearing about the Big 3, I'm more concerned about the Local 5; Reid, Vaughn, Henry, Alex & Jarvis.
 



Gopher Warrior said:
Yep, Lew Jack was def stronger. If Dre M can spell Dre H at point & not turn it over a ton, good deal.
Click to expand...

I'm with you, I don't get all the people that say Dre will be a SG only now. It'll be nice to move him off the point, but I don't see these two new guys taking over sole possession of the PG position. McNeil is no more of a PG than Dre.
 



Gold Vision said:
I'm with you, I don't get all the people that say Dre will be a SG only now. It'll be nice to move him off the point, but I don't see these two new guys taking over sole possession of the PG position. McNeil is no more of a PG than Dre.
Click to expand...

It's just another example of a little blurb that people run with. ("Oooh, Minnesota doesn't have a true PG! That's the reason for their problems!")

The truth is I'd take Dre as my point guard over the large majority of point guards in the nation.

The "true point guard" talk is silly and overdone... as was the "Rodney 3 vs 4", and of course one of my favorites... "the fallacy of depth".
 



Gold Vision said:
I'm with you, I don't get all the people that say Dre will be a SG only now. It'll be nice to move him off the point, but I don't see these two new guys taking over sole possession of the PG position. McNeil is no more of a PG than Dre.
Click to expand...

Respectfully disagree...and I could be wrong...it's a minute appraisal on McNeil but to me that's a point guard...our Dre H can't dribble or pass like a point guard...he's a shooter. McNeil is not a shooter...he's a passer/attacker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRJAJgQA1A8
 

60's Guy said:
Respectfully disagree...and I could be wrong...it's a minute appraisal on McNeil but to me that's a point guard...our Dre H can't dribble or pass like a point guard...he's a shooter. McNeil is not a shooter...he's a passer/attacker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRJAJgQA1A8
Click to expand...

One thing is for sure: the Gophers are going to be much faster next year. These guys are going to be needed. Dre could handle decently in a slow-paced matchup, but I think we will need slashing guards who can handle the ball in crowds - something I think Dre was not very good at. So excited to see what we look like in a game next year.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
It's just another example of a little blurb that people run with. ("Oooh, Minnesota doesn't have a true PG! That's the reason for their problems!")

The truth is I'd take Dre as my point guard over the large majority of point guards in the nation.

The "true point guard" talk is silly and overdone... as was the "Rodney 3 vs 4", and of course one of my favorites... "the fallacy of depth".
Click to expand...

For as much as you follow basketball, it's amazing you don't understand how important it is to have a point guard. There is a reason this team struggled with TO's so much the last 2 years. Dre is a 2 that can handle the ball, but really lacks point guard skills. If you watched any gopher bball this year, you would have seen how much Dre struggled to defend the pick and roll on defense, and to run the pick and roll on offense.
 

WILLBGOPHER said:
For as much as you follow basketball, it's amazing you don't understand how important it is to have a point guard. There is a reason this team struggled with TO's so much the last 2 years. Dre is a 2 that can handle the ball, but really lacks point guard skills. If you watched any gopher bball this year, you would have seen how much Dre struggled to defend the pick and roll on defense, and to run the pick and roll on offense.
Click to expand...

Go to a UCONN board and post that about Kemba Walker, see how they react after their national championship.

Then go to the Duke board and tell them that about Nolan Smith, I bet they'd agree after their national championship.

Then go post it on an OKC Thunder board that they have no reason to worry because Westbrook is hurt, he isn't a true PG anyways.

I am with GW on this one and have always felt the same, a true PG is a nice player to have, but not some required necessity. College and NBA teams have both succeeded without a "true" PG.
 



WILLBGOPHER said:
For as much as you follow basketball, it's amazing you don't understand how important it is to have a point guard. There is a reason this team struggled with TO's so much the last 2 years. Dre is a 2 that can handle the ball, but really lacks point guard skills. If you watched any gopher bball this year, you would have seen how much Dre struggled to defend the pick and roll on defense, and to run the pick and roll on offense.
Click to expand...

The Gophers' turnover issues were not about Dre Hollins at point. There are some things Dre isn't great at, but by and large I'd take him over most point guards in the nation.

Some "pass first true point guard" isn't what Minnesota was missing last year. Andre Hollins was far and away the most valuable player the Gophers in 2012-13... which makes it all the more bizarre that people get hung up on the idea that him playing point guard was awful and hurtful.

I suppose the arguments people would make are the one you did - i.e., Minnesota committed a ton of turnovers because they didn't have a true point guard... which isn't the case (outside of Dre, Rodney and Austin, everyone turned the ball over far more than is acceptable)... and that Dre would contribute more if he were off the ball... the kid already took more than 26% of the shots when he was on the floor...

The thing is that Dre is more of a scorer than *some* point guards. That's fine. He also had a healthy assist rate and lowered his turnover rate below 20%.
 

He will definitely be a nice change of pace at PG, that's for sure. I think it's a great pickup this late in the game, I just don't think he will automatically be the 30 minute starting PG everyone thinks he will be. I can't wait to see this kid try and rebound and dunk in the B1G.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
The Gophers' turnover issues were not about Dre Hollins at point. There are some things Dre isn't great at, but by and large I'd take him over most point guards in the nation.

Some "pass first true point guard" isn't what Minnesota was missing last year. Andre Hollins was far and away the most valuable player the Gophers in 2012-13... which makes it all the more bizarre that people get hung up on the idea that him playing point guard was awful and hurtful.

I suppose the arguments people would make are the one you did - i.e., Minnesota committed a ton of turnovers because they didn't have a true point guard... which isn't the case (outside of Dre, Rodney and Austin, everyone turned the ball over far more than is acceptable)... and that Dre would contribute more if he were off the ball... the kid already took more than 26% of the shots when he was on the floor...

The thing is that Dre is more of a scorer than *some* point guards. That's fine. He also had a healthy assist rate and lowered his turnover rate below 20%.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of your points, but I have to argue that the quality of Dre's shots will go up if he can play off the ball more. Yes he took 26% of the shots while on the floor, but I can remember countless possessions where he had to work hard with the ball in his hands to take a shot. If he can spend time running off screens and having someone else facilitate for him, the quality of his shots should go up and he'll be more efficient, and even more dangerous.
 

I'm conflicted about the needs for a "pass-first" PG....can't argue the points made by both sides of the aisle. Scandal aside, the best team we have had in the last 20 years had a "pass-first" PG in Eric Harris that freed up Bobby Jacskon, who could also manage the point when needed, to focus on scoring. That is the best analogy I can come up with. I guess I lean towards the "true PG" if I had to pick sides but Andre projects as a PG in the NBA based on his size and would think that would lead him to want to prove he's capable of playing that position at the next level.
 

The kid scored 17 a game in juco. He's not just a pass first PG.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
The Gophers' turnover issues were not about Dre Hollins at point. There are some things Dre isn't great at, but by and large I'd take him over most point guards in the nation.

Some "pass first true point guard" isn't what Minnesota was missing last year. Andre Hollins was far and away the most valuable player the Gophers in 2012-13... which makes it all the more bizarre that people get hung up on the idea that him playing point guard was awful and hurtful.

I suppose the arguments people would make are the one you did - i.e., Minnesota committed a ton of turnovers because they didn't have a true point guard... which isn't the case (outside of Dre, Rodney and Austin, everyone turned the ball over far more than is acceptable)... and that Dre would contribute more if he were off the ball... the kid already took more than 26% of the shots when he was on the floor...

The thing is that Dre is more of a scorer than *some* point guards. That's fine. He also had a healthy assist rate and lowered his turnover rate below 20%.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should watch tape of the Northwestern game to remind yourself how badly, at times, Dre struggled to handle the point. (or the final possession of the Wisky game @ Wisconsin).

I have no problem with a point guard with a scoring mentality, but you also have to have some major handles and decision making when needed.

A team can get by with an average point guard when there is a lot of talent around at the other positions. This clearly isn't the case with our team.
 

I'm hopeful he will be two things that we haven't had in a long time:

1) a true end to end defensive menace.
2) somebody quick enough to gain penetration/turn the corner on a pick and role/collapse the defense/make the D adjust.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
It's just another example of a little blurb that people run with. ("Oooh, Minnesota doesn't have a true PG! That's the reason for their problems!")

The truth is I'd take Dre as my point guard over the large majority of point guards in the nation.

The "true point guard" talk is silly and overdone... as was the "Rodney 3 vs 4", and of course one of my favorites... "the fallacy of depth".
Click to expand...

B.S. Dre is an effective point guard but could be 1st team all-Big Ten with a majority of minutes at SG
 

60's Guy said:
Respectfully disagree...and I could be wrong...it's a minute appraisal on McNeil but to me that's a point guard...our Dre H can't dribble or pass like a point guard...he's a shooter. McNeil is not a shooter...he's a passer/attacker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRJAJgQA1A8
Click to expand...

My thoughts are based on the fact that he has never really played much PG before, his coach doesn't see him as a "true PG", and he had about a 1 A/TO ratio in AAU games. I see him as a nice scoring compliment similar to Coleman, or Armelin.

From his coach:
“Day is a kid that scores in a lot of different ways. He’s an improved decision maker that played some point for us. A lot of people think [Gophers star] Andre Hollins is moving to the 2, his natural position. They need a true point guard. I don’t necessarily think Day is a true point guard. Very few guys today are lead guards. [Where McNeil plays is] Richard Pitino’s decision based on how hard he works.”
 


balds said:
I'm hopeful he will be two things that we haven't had in a long time:

1) a true end to end defensive menace.
2) somebody quick enough to gain penetration/turn the corner on a pick and role/collapse the defense/make the D adjust.
Click to expand...

Agreed
 

"True PG" should be a banned term on Gopherhole, or at least every person that uses it should have to give their definition/expectation of a "true PG." There are no more than a handful of "true PGs" on the planet... Chris Paul, Steve Nash, etc. In college it is almost preferred that you have a scoring guard as your lead guard, those are the guys that get you wins in crunch time.
 


MadtownGopher said:
"True PG" should be a banned term on Gopherhole, or at least every person that uses it should have to give their definition/expectation of a "true PG." There are no more than a handful of "true PGs" on the planet... Chris Paul, Steve Nash, etc. In college it is almost preferred that you have a scoring guard as your lead guard, those are the guys that get you wins in crunch time.
Click to expand...

Those were the coach's words, not mine. And that is also kind of my point. McNeil is no more of a PG than Dre Hollins from what I can see.
 

Gold Vision said:
Those were the coach's words, not mine. And that is also kind of my point. McNeil is no more of a PG than Dre Hollins from what I can see.
Click to expand...

Absolutely right. The "Dre as a PG hurts Minnesota" believers would probably argue that "well, Dre can shoot 3's so he needs to be an off guard!" However, Hollins hit an excellent percentage of his treys last season... not going to improve significantly no matter where you have him on the floor.

McNeil - I think he's a guy that isn't afraid to try and score, which Minnesota was lacking last year... but not a "PG type" that the anti-Dre PG wackos drool over.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Absolutely right. The "Dre as a PG hurts Minnesota" believers would probably argue that "well, Dre can shoot 3's so he needs to be an off guard!" However, Hollins hit an excellent percentage of his treys last season... not going to improve significantly no matter where you have him on the floor.

McNeil - I think he's a guy that isn't afraid to try and score, which Minnesota was lacking last year... but not a "PG type" that the anti-Dre PG wackos drool over.
Click to expand...

Dude, Andre Hollins doesn't hurt the gophers by being the point guard. But can you understand that the team as a whole should be much better with a competent ball handler/defender, and by all reports scorer. This allows the team to improve at 3 positions. Dre Hollins is a better 2 than Austin, Austin is a far better 3 than Coleman. It also improves the depth on the team with Coleman coming off the bench. This allow the team to spread the floor and allow for lanes to penetrate (wow what a concept). This was nearly impossible the last few years with both Coleman and Rodney on the floor. There was a reason that the offense looked brutal most of the time.
 

WILLBGOPHER said:
Dude, Andre Hollins doesn't hurt the gophers by being the point guard. But can you understand that the team as a whole should be much better with a competent ball handler/defender, and by all reports scorer. This allows the team to improve at 3 positions. Dre Hollins is a better 2 than Austin, Austin is a far better 3 than Coleman. It also improves the depth on the team with Coleman coming off the bench. This allow the team to spread the floor and allow for lanes to penetrate (wow what a concept). This was nearly impossible the last few years with both Coleman and Rodney on the floor. There was a reason that the offense looked brutal most of the time.
Click to expand...

+1
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom