Gopher Fans are crazy to call for Tubby’s head after just 4+ seasons

One of the most disappointing things that has happened over the past two years is the migration of the low expectations crowd from the football board over to the basketball board. It's so pathetic to read these posts excusing poor performance based on history. I guess schools like UConn, Wisconsin, and Baylor should have just closed up shop because Minnesota was a superior program to all 3 historically. I guess Minnesota should be expected to compete for national titles in football with regularity because history shows that very few programs have won 6 of them.

Tubby is 6-21 in his last 27 Big Ten games and 2-10 in his last 12 Big Ten home games.
Tubby's best conference record after 5 years will be WORSE than Bo Ryan's worst conference record in his tenure at Wisconsin.
Tubby was not brought in to Minnesota to go .500 in the conference, much less perform similar to Dan Monson, he was brought in to compete fore conference championships. Thank god, the administration hasn't taken the view of basketball that many have of football or we would have hired a coach for 800K- 1 mil who "understands Minnesota".

I cannot stand the idea that Minnesota should somehow accept not being a Big Ten contender in revenue sports and the "fans" who are willing to accept/justify poor performance are certainly part of the problem.
 

One of the most disappointing things that has happened over the past two years is the migration of the low expectations crowd from the football board over to the basketball board. It's so pathetic to read these posts excusing poor performance based on history. I guess schools like UConn, Wisconsin, and Baylor should have just closed up shop because Minnesota was a superior program to all 3 historically. I guess Minnesota should be expected to compete for national titles in football with regularity because history shows that very few programs have won 6 of them.

Tubby is 6-21 in his last 27 Big Ten games and 2-10 in his last 12 Big Ten home games.
Tubby's best conference record after 5 years will be WORSE than Bo Ryan's worst conference record in his tenure at Wisconsin.
Tubby was not brought in to Minnesota to go .500 in the conference, much less perform similar to Dan Monson, he was brought in to compete fore conference championships. Thank god, the administration hasn't taken the view of basketball that many have of football or we would have hired a coach for 800K- 1 mil who "understands Minnesota".

I cannot stand the idea that Minnesota should somehow accept not being a Big Ten contender in revenue sports and the "fans" who are willing to accept/justify poor performance are certainly part of the problem.


+1
 

For all the fans that want Tubby gone, where's the list? The list of potential coaches that are or would become available that would do any better under the same circumstances, WHO?
 

One of the most disappointing things that has happened over the past two years is the migration of the low expectations crowd from the football board over to the basketball board. It's so pathetic to read these posts excusing poor performance based on history. I guess schools like UConn, Wisconsin, and Baylor should have just closed up shop because Minnesota was a superior program to all 3 historically. I guess Minnesota should be expected to compete for national titles in football with regularity because history shows that very few programs have won 6 of them.

Tubby is 6-21 in his last 27 Big Ten games and 2-10 in his last 12 Big Ten home games.
Tubby's best conference record after 5 years will be WORSE than Bo Ryan's worst conference record in his tenure at Wisconsin.
Tubby was not brought in to Minnesota to go .500 in the conference, much less perform similar to Dan Monson, he was brought in to compete fore conference championships. Thank god, the administration hasn't taken the view of basketball that many have of football or we would have hired a coach for 800K- 1 mil who "understands Minnesota".

I cannot stand the idea that Minnesota should somehow accept not being a Big Ten contender in revenue sports and the "fans" who are willing to accept/justify poor performance are certainly part of the problem.

You're right! If all of us were whiners like you it would make things a whole lot better.
 

For all the fans that want Tubby gone, where's the list? The list of potential coaches that are or would become available that would do any better under the same circumstances, WHO?
You want people start subjectively listing a bunch of candidates whose success at the U couldn't be measured until they rack up a W-L record? All we know now is that the current headcoach is not doing his job, but you would rather us have some hypothetical discussion about future headcoaching candidates? Talk about a distraction technique.
 


You're right! If all of us were whiners like you it would make things a whole lot better.
Anyone who questions the current head coach is a whiner? Do you happen to think that any of these whiners might've been previous Tubby backers?
 

Seems related from Seth Davis' mailbag.....Iowa, disgruntled fans, performance compared to the program's history, coach leaving on his own, etc. Sorry for the length.

I am curious about Steve Alford. How is it he can coach so well at New Mexico after having been so inept at Iowa? Has the Iowa experience improved his ability to coach or did he just give up and get out when he could? Seems like he should have been able to parlay the Big Ten tourney championships into something better.
-- Travis, Ypsilanti, Mich.


If Travis was trying to pay Alford a compliment, he did a pretty lousy job. Frankly, it doesn't take a whole lot of guts to rip someone from the safety of your cubicle in Ypsilanti, especially if you're not going to provide your last name. You want to show some guts? Voice that opinion to Alford directly.

I'm not sure if it showed guts or foolishness, but I decided to reach out to Alford myself on Tuesday and read him Travis' e-mail, word for word. Steve accepted the backhanded compliment with typical good cheer -- winning tends to put a guy in a good mood -- before offering up a feisty defense of his eight-year tenure at Iowa.

"We had seven winning seasons and we won two Big Ten [tournament] titles," he said. "If you look at the history of Iowa basketball, I think they've won four or five Big Ten titles of any kind. Yet, the perception is we weren't successful there."

Travis' e-mail is yet another example of just how misguided criticism of coaches can be. If fans aren't happy with their program -- and at some point, most of them aren't -- their reflexive reaction is to call for a coaching change. In the grand scheme of things, however, the coach is not nearly as fundamental to a program's success as many fans want to believe. All you have to do is look at Alford's record before and after his Iowa tenure, not to mention Iowa's record before and after Alford coached there.

It starts with unrealistic expectations. If Alford were the coach at his alma mater, Indiana, and he took the team to the NCAA tournament three times in eight years and failed to reach the Sweet 16, that could rightly be characterized as a disappointment. At Iowa, however, that was very impressive. After Alford left, he was replaced by Todd Lickliter, who had just been named National Coach of the Year after taking Butler to the Sweet 16. Lickliter won 38 games in three years and never finished higher than eighth in the Big Ten. He got fired and was replaced by Fran McCaffrey, who had just gone to three straight NCAA tournaments at Siena. In his nearly two years at Iowa, McCaffrey's teams have gone 10-22 in Big Ten play. Those guys didn't forget how to coach upon arriving at Iowa any more than Alford remembered how to coach once he got to New Mexico. Success and failure is about much, much more than the man on the sidelines.

Remember, too, that Alford didn't get fired at Iowa. He voluntarily left for New Mexico. Why? In the first place, he was undercut by his then-athletic director, Bob Bowlsby, who refused to stand up to the message-board crowd in Alford's defense. In addition, New Mexico offered Alford a commitment to basketball that Iowa couldn't. When Alford got to Albuquerque, he had a new practice facility and a full-time strength coach, two things he didn't have at Iowa. (Iowa just completed an expensive renovation of its arena last year, which included an upgrade of its practice courts, weight room and other facilities.) The Lobos get great fan support year in and year out, which helps recruiting. (It also encourages unreasonable expectations, but that is the nature of fandom.) During his five years at New Mexico, Alford's teams have never won fewer than 22 games.

Keep in mind that the year before he came to Iowa, Alford had piloted Southwest Missouri State to the Sweet 16. That's right, Southwest Missouri State. He is, by any standard, one of the finest college basketball coaches in America. He also got out of Iowa at exactly the right time, just as fans like Travis from Ypsilanti were getting the eight-year itch. Ask Illinois coach Bruce Weber about the eight-year itch. He's in his ninth season in Champaign, and he's about to get canned.

"In this profession, it's hard to stay long-term at one place," Alford told me. "Unless you're winning 20 games and advancing in the NCAA tournament every year, which is hard to do, it becomes very difficult. With all the social media and everything else, you need to have a total commitment from the administration, not just in publicly backing you but also providing the help you need. I feel like I have that at New Mexico."

In return, New Mexico has a winning basketball team and one very happy coach. We'll see if things turn out as well at the place Alford left behind.
 

You want people start subjectively listing a bunch of candidates whose success at the U couldn't be measured until they rack up a W-L record? All we know now is that the current headcoach is not doing his job, but you would rather us have some hypothetical discussion about future headcoaching candidates? Talk about a distraction technique.


Hey, I got an idea, let's fire Tubby and get some guy who supposedly can recruit good talent, has no head coaching experience, who will promise us the moon and is a cheerleader for the team. Oh, wait a minute, just a second, Oh that's right, the football program already tried that and where did that get them.
 

Hey, I got an idea, let's fire Tubby and get some guy who supposedly can recruit good talent, has no head coaching experience, who will promise us the moon and is a cheerleader for the team. Oh, wait a minute, just a second, Oh that's right, the football program already tried that and where did that get them.
Funny you should mention that, Tubby (Yr 5) and Kill (Yr 1) have the same conference win % .333. Also, the Steve Alford mailbag piece was already mentioned in a thread but Steve Alford had a conference win % of .476 in his time at Iowa and Tubby currently has a conference win % of .440. Steve Alford was a mid major coach from Southwest Missouri State and Tubby Smith was hired with a National Championship from a top 3 all-time college program.
 



No worries, enough people misinterpreted my comment to make me believe it was poorly written.
 

howieramone said:
You're right! If all of us were whiners like you it would make things a whole lot better.

He's a 'whiner,' huh? Wow.

I don't have the gumption to post much anymore, but my current feelings can be summed up in nearly every word EG and bga1 type. They are not whiners. They are objective fans, and I thank them for providing the takes they do and taking the time to post them here.
 

Very true. Completely different situations, but one thing I4 had going for him even when his teams were pathetic were great future commitments who wanted to come to Indiana and play for them.

Zeller is excellent, but next year the large groups of reinforcements begin to arrive... and it hardly stops with the 2012 class. Indiana's commitment board has been filled with 2014 studs for quite some time - if Tubby had a couple of 2014 commitments before this year even started, as well as great 2012 & 2013 classes, some people would be singing a different tune.

Smith's issue isn't just the results on the floor, but the view of the future (although I do believe a lot of fans have a rosy view of next year... maybe it's just wishful thinking).

I still don't why it's completely different situations? I'm aware of the recruits that are coming in 2013 and 2014. Are they coming in because of Tom Crean or because it's Indiana University? If it's because of Tom Crean, then it shows that tenure is significant in the recruiting process (i.e. Tyus Jones). If that's the case, firing Tubby puts the program in a deeper hole. If the 2013-14 recruits are committing to IU because of its basketball tradition, then it proves that Indiana still took a chance with Crean and brought him back after winning 8 conference wins in 3 seasons. As a result, the chance they took paid off. Regardless of what the reason was, Crean was on the hot seat after last year. This situation shows that coaches in the B1G are capable of recovering. A previous post referred to Bo Ryan; I don't see why comparing B1G coaches to one another to prove a point is that ridiculous?
 

savagerube said:
I still don't why it's completely different situations? I'm aware of the recruits that are coming in 2013 and 2014. Are they coming in because of Tom Crean or because it's Indiana University? If it's because of Tom Crean, then it shows that tenure is significant in the recruiting process (i.e. Tyus Jones). If that's the case, firing Tubby puts the program in a deeper hole. If the 2013-14 recruits are committing to IU because of its basketball tradition, then it proves that Indiana still took a chance with Crean and brought him back after winning 8 conference wins in 3 seasons. As a result, the chance they took paid off. Regardless of what the reason was, Crean was on the hot seat after last year. This situation shows that coaches in the B1G are capable of recovering. A previous post referred to Bo Ryan; I don't see why comparing B1G coaches to one another to prove a point is that ridiculous?

You do realize that Crean took over a scandal ridden program where he literally only had two scholarship players I believe. Crean and Monson's situations are more similar than Tubby and Crean.
 



You do realize that Crean took over a scandal ridden program where he literally only had two scholarship players I believe. Crean and Monson's situations are more similar than Tubby and Crean.

He had one scholarship taken away. The sanctions that IU had were initiated by IU. see: http://iuhoosiers.cstv.com/genrel/101407aaa.html

One scholarship isn't an excuse for for 8 wins in 3 seasons. Just like sanctions against Monson doesn't excuse the fact that he was fired after a 2-5 start.
 

savagerube said:
He had one scholarship taken away. The sanctions that IU had were initiated by IU. see: http://iuhoosiers.cstv.com/genrel/101407aaa.html

One scholarship isn't an excuse for for 8 wins in 3 seasons. Just like sanctions against Monson doesn't excuse the fact that he was fired after a 2-5 start.

When he took over he only had two players on the roster from the previous staff and only one was on scholarship. Not even remotely close to what Tubby walked into here. I didn't say the sanctions excused the later year record of Monson, but it would and did excuse the records of the earlier years. Tubby on the other hand didn't have a huge obstacle to overcome like those guys did out of the gate yet he has performed comparable the last couple years to how those guys did. I am not saying fire tubby but let's also don't try and compare what he walked into from day one to what Crean and or Monson did. The program also at this time appears to be trending down
 

Guy we can't fall much farther than the last two years which are both on par with Monson (conference record), most any mid major Joe can coach a team to a below .400 record.
 

am I only the only one who remembers how the program hit absolute rock bottom, to the point where we were losing to Arkansas little rock at home! Don't compare Monson to Tubby. Monson left the program in the worst shape possible, we went to 1 NCAA tournament only because the Big Ten was absolutely HORRIBLE and went 10-6 and got in.

I understand everyone's frustration with Tubby and the past 14 months, but if Tubby doesn't decide to come to MN, where would the program be today? I know one thing there is no way the gophers would have turned around as quickly as they did. He deserves at least another year with this program
 

We're going to find out a lot about our team when we go to the Bahamas in November for the Battle 4 Atlantis:

Duke
Louisville
Memphis
Mizzou
Northern Iowa
Stanford
VCU

I think that's a good thing.

Hopefully we meet up with at least 1 of the big boys (Duke or Louisville). This adds an interesting dynamnic for Gopher fans getting impatient with Tubby. We very well could lose a couple games there, and still end up being a darn good team. I suspect if we go 1-2 there the "Tubby sucks" crowd will get it rollin', even if our opponents end up being Duke, Louisville, Memphis, etc.

I don't know how much we'll find out from that tournament. We have tournament wins over Louisville, Butler, and UNC and it hasn't meant as much as we'd hoped.
 

The wins over Butler and (especially) Louisville certainly played significant roles in helping us get into back-to-back NCAA tournaments.
 

I don't know how much we'll find out from that tournament. We have tournament wins over Louisville, Butler, and UNC and it hasn't meant as much as we'd hoped.

Wouldn't have gotten into these major tournaments or played major teams without Tubby's influence. The Battle for Atlantis gives every team $1 Million for PARTICIPATING.
 

CrocShots said:
Wouldn't have gotten into these major tournaments or played major teams without Tubby's influence. The Battle for Atlantis gives every team $1 Million for PARTICIPATING.

So you're saying we will have a practice facility in 20 years? Lol
 

CrocShots said:
Wouldn't have gotten into these major tournaments or played major teams without Tubby's influence. The Battle for Atlantis gives every team $1 Million for PARTICIPATING.

Where is your proof of this? How in the world did Northern Iowa get in then?
 


zambam said:
Cause they know they can't get all BCS conference teams, not even MAUI does that.

Yet Minnesota couldn't have gotten in without Tubby, which is what the op stated.
 

When he took over he only had two players on the roster from the previous staff and only one was on scholarship. Not even remotely close to what Tubby walked into here. I didn't say the sanctions excused the later year record of Monson, but it would and did excuse the records of the earlier years. Tubby on the other hand didn't have a huge obstacle to overcome like those guys did out of the gate yet he has performed comparable the last couple years to how those guys did. I am not saying fire tubby but let's also don't try and compare what he walked into from day one to what Crean and or Monson did. The program also at this time appears to be trending down

So what explains the 3-15 record 2 years later? Tubby had a 9-22 obstacle to overcome; a team that dealt with a coach being fired before the B1G where they finished 3-13. 3-13 vs. 3-15? Pretty similar. Tubby turned 9 wins into 20.
 

The wins over Butler and (especially) Louisville certainly played significant roles in helping us get into back-to-back NCAA tournaments.

They certainly helped in that regard, but I don't think we learned anything from those games. A team that beats Louisville, Butler, and UNC shouldn't be a bubble team. It should be a team that is able to make some noise in the Tournament and not a middle to lower tier Big Ten team.
 


savagerube said:
So what explains the 3-15 record 2 years later? Tubby had a 9-22 obstacle to overcome; a team that dealt with a coach being fired before the B1G where they finished 3-13. 3-13 vs. 3-15? Pretty similar. Tubby turned 9 wins into 20.

You cannot see the difference of a coach whose
team is trending up after overcoming a huge obstacle he walked into, versus a coach without a huge obstacle whose team is trending down? You might have had a point if tubby had maintained the record of his first couple seasons, but he hasn't. Crean's teams have improved as he brought in his guys while Tubby's have gotten worse with his guys.
 

We really can't pretend that last nights collapse wasn't epic - and predictable. Was there really anyone at the game who didn't see it coming? Anyone watching the game?
This should be of concern to the coach. If this was the direction our work, our family was headed, wouldn't it cause us to spring into action?
Bga and I often agree on management issues, and his list could be turned over to the new AD as a check list for job performance for next year. Or wait - Tubby's a rock star coach so these bench marks of performance don't apply?
SS brings up a future assessment mark - no more no less - and how it could cloud the assessment.
 

You cannot see the difference of a coach whose
team is trending up after overcoming a huge obstacle he walked into, versus a coach without a huge obstacle whose team is trending down? You might have had a point if tubby had maintained the record of his first couple seasons, but he hasn't. Crean's teams have improved as he brought in his guys while Tubby's have gotten worse with his guys.

Tubby made the dance two of his first three years, right? He did maintain it. Tubby maintaned it until the flood of transfers and injuries; he's to blame for Cobbs but not for Royce and Devoe-- they broke team rules just like the recent Purdue situation. Should Matt Painter be blamed for one of his players getting into a bar fight? Of course not. Parents have a hard time controlling their 18-year-olds, why should a coach take blame for an idiot like Royce when he stole ipods and laptops? What would Indiana be without Zeller? They would be the Gophers without Mbakwe.
 




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