Gabe to Iowa State

TWeber

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Battle coming back, so it's one local in and one out. And I'm not sure that fans "did" anything more to Gabe than they would have done if he wasn't local. His offensive stats declined by a bunch as his career went on, and that doesn't get you treated like a hero no matter where you are from.
That has been in the back of my mind...Gabe and Battle were teammates at DeLaSalle. Wonder what the relationship was like.
 


SanDiegoGopherFan

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That has been in the back of my mind...Gabe and Battle were teammates at DeLaSalle. Wonder what the relationship was like.

That's a great point. The former lead recruiter for him is now his coach, from what I'm reading it looks like thorson was his HC in high school and now his old teammate is joining.

I'd love to be a fly at BJs office and see what he is telling these kids.

In contrast, Craig Smith publicly said he asked all the players to come back. Does anyone know if BJ made any sort of public statement besides "you didn't pick me, I picked you" like he said in the presser.
 

upnorthkid

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Ahh...


Gach, Williams, Carr, Kalscheur, Mash by defensive rating. Mccaffrey on par with gach apparently.

To be clear, I'm not trying to argue that gabe is an awful defender. I was just hoping for an argument better than "just watch" to explain the hype
the problem with sports reference "advanced stats" is you must also look at how they're calculated and what goes into their score.

The core of the Defensive Rating calculation is the concept of the individual Defensive Stop. Stops take into account the instances of a player ending an opposing possession that are tracked in the boxscore (blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds), in addition to an estimate for the number of forced turnovers and forced misses by the player which aren't captured by steals and blocks.

The formula for Stops is:

  • Stops = Stops1 + Stops2
where:

  • Stops1 = STL + BLK * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + DRB * (1 - FMwt)
  • FMwt = (DFG% * (1 - DOR%)) / (DFG% * (1 - DOR%) + (1 - DFG%) * DOR%)
  • DOR% = Opponent_ORB / (Opponent_ORB + Team_DRB)
  • DFG% = Opponent_FGM / Opponent_FGA
  • Stops2 = (((Opponent_FGA - Opponent_FGM - Team_BLK) / Team_MP) * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + ((Opponent_TOV - Team_STL) / Team_MP)) * MP + (PF / Team_PF) * 0.4 * Opponent_FTA * (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2
Also necessary is the calculation of Stop%, which is the rate at which a player forces a defensive stop as a percentage of individual possessions faced (essentially the inverse of Floor%, but for defenders):

  • Stop% = (Stops * Opponent_MP) / (Team_Possessions * MP)
With those numbers in hand, individual Defensive Rating can be computed:

  • DRtg = Team_Defensive_Rating + 0.2 * (100 * D_Pts_per_ScPoss * (1 - Stop%) - Team_Defensive_Rating)
where:

  • Team_Defensive_Rating = 100 * (Opponent_PTS / Team_Possessions)
  • D_Pts_per_ScPoss = Opponent_PTS / (Opponent_FGM + (1 - (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2) * Opponent_FTA*0.4)
So the guy who's covering the other teams best player every single game and isn't going for DRB on a team that doesn't play good defense is going to have a shit rating.

Further
  • Out of necessity (owing to a lack of defensive data in the basic boxscore), individual Defensive Ratings are heavily influenced by the team's defensive efficiency. They assume that all teammates are equally good (per minute) at forcing non-steal turnovers and non-block misses, as well as assuming that all teammates face the same number of total possessions per minute.
  • Perhaps as a byproduct, big men tend to have the best Defensive Ratings (although Oliver notes that history's best defensive teams were generally anchored by dominant defensive big men, suggesting that those types of players are the most important to a team's defensive success). A corollary to this is that excellent perimeter defenders who don't steal the ball a lot — for instance, Joe Dumars or Doug Christie — are underrated defensively by DRtg, and are prone to look only as good as their team's overall defense performs.
 

Minnesota Jay

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the problem with sports reference "advanced stats" is you must also look at how they're calculated and what goes into their score.

The core of the Defensive Rating calculation is the concept of the individual Defensive Stop. Stops take into account the instances of a player ending an opposing possession that are tracked in the boxscore (blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds), in addition to an estimate for the number of forced turnovers and forced misses by the player which aren't captured by steals and blocks.

The formula for Stops is:

  • Stops = Stops1 + Stops2
where:

  • Stops1 = STL + BLK * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + DRB * (1 - FMwt)
  • FMwt = (DFG% * (1 - DOR%)) / (DFG% * (1 - DOR%) + (1 - DFG%) * DOR%)
  • DOR% = Opponent_ORB / (Opponent_ORB + Team_DRB)
  • DFG% = Opponent_FGM / Opponent_FGA
  • Stops2 = (((Opponent_FGA - Opponent_FGM - Team_BLK) / Team_MP) * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + ((Opponent_TOV - Team_STL) / Team_MP)) * MP + (PF / Team_PF) * 0.4 * Opponent_FTA * (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2
Also necessary is the calculation of Stop%, which is the rate at which a player forces a defensive stop as a percentage of individual possessions faced (essentially the inverse of Floor%, but for defenders):

  • Stop% = (Stops * Opponent_MP) / (Team_Possessions * MP)
With those numbers in hand, individual Defensive Rating can be computed:

  • DRtg = Team_Defensive_Rating + 0.2 * (100 * D_Pts_per_ScPoss * (1 - Stop%) - Team_Defensive_Rating)
where:

  • Team_Defensive_Rating = 100 * (Opponent_PTS / Team_Possessions)
  • D_Pts_per_ScPoss = Opponent_PTS / (Opponent_FGM + (1 - (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2) * Opponent_FTA*0.4)
So the guy who's covering the other teams best player every single game and isn't going for DRB on a team that doesn't play good defense is going to have a shit rating.

Further
  • Out of necessity (owing to a lack of defensive data in the basic boxscore), individual Defensive Ratings are heavily influenced by the team's defensive efficiency. They assume that all teammates are equally good (per minute) at forcing non-steal turnovers and non-block misses, as well as assuming that all teammates face the same number of total possessions per minute.
  • Perhaps as a byproduct, big men tend to have the best Defensive Ratings (although Oliver notes that history's best defensive teams were generally anchored by dominant defensive big men, suggesting that those types of players are the most important to a team's defensive success). A corollary to this is that excellent perimeter defenders who don't steal the ball a lot — for instance, Joe Dumars or Doug Christie — are underrated defensively by DRtg, and are prone to look only as good as their team's overall defense performs.
Alright, there's a plausible answer. Thank you for providing it
 


Roland Brooks

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Gabe no longer on the Gopher roster neither is Coach Conroy. The new assistants are
 

skiumah1

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We need more depth? We need STARTERS.

We literally have no STARTERS right now. Maybe Gach pre injury.
We need everything haha. But your are right, most importantly we need high level talent that can compete in the Big 10. I would think Battle is sure to start. Ihnen can start (should he is different question). He has a high upside. Gach needs to be better but he'd be a starter. We really need Bran Johnson back. I want to see us be as good as we can be year 1, but it is year 1 of the rebuild here. PJ might call it year 0.

1 W&M Kid
2 Gach / Stephens
3 Battle / Stephens
4 Johnson (Hopefully)
5 Ihnen

Am I missing anybody? Ben has gotta be able to get Fox to commit. Seems very gettable. A lot of posters are not going to agree here but truthfully I don't hate this lineup from a potential upside stand point. Add 3/4 more kids to fill this out. Maybe Thompson stays committed (the freshman).
 
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upnorthkid

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Alright, there's a plausible answer. Thank you for providing it
not a problem. I think advanced stats are cool and worthwhile things to look at, but how they're constructed (and subsequently valued) depends on if the components make a difference. For example, Carr looks like a better defender because he rebounds the ball. Part of what may hurt Gabe is by design (you want Carr with the ball in hands so he crashes the glass while Gabe should be running the floor to the corner for a 3 point shot in transition) but there is also the question of what do we do with switches and who's credited as the defender on each bucket and who gets credited with the "stop". Then lastly, does who rebounds the ball itself really provide as much defensive value as a blocked shot? If they don't how different are they? It's going to be different on each team. Kind of a fun mental exercise though.
 




SanDiegoGopherFan

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We need everything haha. But your are right, most importantly we need high level talent that can compete in the Big 10. I would think Battle is sure to start. Ihnen can start (should he is different question). He has a high upside. Gach needs to be better but he'd be a starter. We really need Bran Johnson back. I want to see us be as good as we can be year 1, but it is year 1 of the rebuild here. PJ might call it year 0.

1 W&M Kid
2 Gach / Stephens
3 Battle / Stephens
4 Johnson (Hopefully)
5 Ihnen

Am I missing anybody? Ben has gotta be able to get Fox to commit. Seems very gettable. A lot of posters are not going to agree here but truthfully I don't hate this lineup from a potential upside stand point. Add 3/4 more kids to fill this out. Maybe Thompson stays committed (the freshman).

haha, true. We just need more warm bodies at this point. I was secretly hoping for BJ to surprise us his first year and do something like Pitino did or Tubby and shock us a bit with a better than expected record.

At this rate it probably wont happen, but we have a lot of time.

Someone else posted this, we need players with at least 2 years of eligibility to come on board so we dont get stuck in panic mode every year, I know BJ knows that, so I'm guessing their main focus moving forward will be Soph and Fresh transfers and potential recruits who haven't signed or are asking to be released from their LOI's.
 

skiumah1

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haha, true. We just need more warm bodies at this point. I was secretly hoping for BJ to surprise us his first year and do something like Pitino did or Tubby and shock us a bit with a better than expected record.

At this rate it probably wont happen, but we have a lot of time.

Someone else posted this, we need players with at least 2 years of eligibility to come on board so we dont get stuck in panic mode every year, I know BJ knows that, so I'm guessing their main focus moving forward will be Soph and Fresh transfers and potential recruits who haven't signed or are asking to be released from their LOI's.
Yeah I mean he's gotta be thinking more long term at this point agreed. If you can get quality players in that 2nd year, that's fantastic, but those have gotta be the most coveted. Hopefully he can win on a couple of those guys. I think Fox has 2 years eligibility and same with that Rebraka from North Dakota. I just think it's gonna be tough to get those kids because they really want to compete and the competition is tough for those kids. I'm just talking those kids because that's who I've seen us interested in. I really have no idea who they are chasing. If that McNeill is on board I would think his nephew is coming with him as well. That would help.

I'm trying to keep expectations low.
 

bga1

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haha, true. We just need more warm bodies at this point. I was secretly hoping for BJ to surprise us his first year and do something like Pitino did or Tubby and shock us a bit with a better than expected record.

At this rate it probably wont happen, but we have a lot of time.

Someone else posted this, we need players with at least 2 years of eligibility to come on board so we dont get stuck in panic mode every year, I know BJ knows that, so I'm guessing their main focus moving forward will be Soph and Fresh transfers and potential recruits who haven't signed or are asking to be released from their LOI's.
Considering the state of the transfer portal- I assume this is now permanent- I am little less concerned with getting a number of guys with two years left. I want 5 or 6 frosh to sign this fall thinking that they are good enough to play right away. I would almost rather get them first and then fill in the blanks after we see what HS guys we can get. We just are not going to be good for the next two years.

Right now we have Ihnen, Gach and Battle all with two years left + Thompson and Pohto with 4 assuming they stick. Maybe we need to get another 2 years left guy but beyond that, I think we will need to be patient with young guys in two years augmented by seniors who can bring them along fundamentally. Now if we think we can get some really good players to come in and compete sooner, well then....that would be awesome.
 

2nd Degree Gopher

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Where are all the posters saying he wants to go somewhere that they can win?
I’ll admit I was in the camp of those suggesting he could be looking to move to an established, competitive program with a better chance to play in the tournament. This is obviously not that. This move suggests he just wanted out.
 





GopherPlaya

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No spin zone? No homer glasses opinion? ok.

1) Gabe is not the type of player Ben wants here. Not gritty enough. So Ben told him this much.

or

2) Gabe does not want to play for BJ or he does not believe in the vision that BJ has for the Gophers.

One of the best B1G defenders is now gone. Everyone said this staff, BJ, etc, is amazing at connecting with kids and we were gonna start building a wall around MN.

Best way to describe this, not a good start for the Ben Johnson era. To me Gabe is the type of kid we need to keep.
Could it be Gabe was burnt out from being here and just wants to start over. He seemed checked out before the injury
 


Seany

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Well I wish Gabe the best. KInd of bummed out that he decided to leave, but I get it. There's a lot to be said sometimes for just going for a fresh start somewhere new. Either way, life goes on, Gopher hoops goes on, and yeah. Just gotta keep on rolling with them punches.
 

umn99

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This is a tough one. Seems like it didn't matter who was coming in, he wanted out. A little frightened that recruits in MN may see Gabe as a cautionary tale as the optics of this are pretty bad.

Not even 3 weeks in and Ben has a lot of work ahead of him - probably more than he anticipated. A clean slate is not necessarily a bad thing, but I'm worried about having a team that even comes close to competing in the Big Ten this year. We're already at the bottom in W/L, so can't go down much further, but can they compete? Lots of slots to fill yet (gulp) so hard to judge right now. Hopefully he can get a team that might not be talented or win many games - but works hard, surprises some people, and builds a culture that will pay off later. I'll still be cheering on those that have chosen to stay or transferred in.

In the meantime, hoping the bad news turns around and we get more Denzel gifs from Ben ASAP. Also praying to all the MN basketball gods that the fantastic 2022 group of instate kids want to come to the U. The scholarships/playing time will be there!
 
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Parcival

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Hope he does well at Iowa State but won't really miss him. No room for a 25% 3 pt shooter on the team who's SUPPOSED to be a good shooter. I'm sure some of it was the result of Carr always dumping the ball to him with 5 seconds left in the shot clock but he hasn't been the same since his freshman year.
 


Ozzy&Ray

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Right because you would always inquire and speak with people you don't want. It's not like they were learning anything by speaking with Gabe, all the tape in the world is out there to see what he brings, not to mention they have played against him, scouted him, and schemed against him. This is silly.
You demonstrate how little you know. It is much more than what you “see”. Coaches talk with players to assess fit, to share the role they see them playing and then assess if they feel the player would accept that role, etc.

They very well could have talked and one or the other decided that the fit didn’t work.

I also know Ben was honest with him about his role here and no promises about starting or minutes. That’s what good coaches do. With all going on, such as has been referenced, he likely decided it’s time for a fresh start.
 

Ozzy&Ray

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People are way over valuing the transfers we have coming in. I guess they are just placing what they want on them since there is no real evidence to reign that in. The odds that a bunch of mid major players are going to come into the B1G and tear it up is nil. I was hoping we could keep a couple of the main players and have the others come in and contribute, that I could see as having some possible success (I was really banking on Robbins in this regard), and then Gabe locking down the other teams best scoring option and thus hopefully holding teams scoring down always gives you a chance to win. Admittedly I was really squinting to see some possible roadmap for a respectable team, but now I can't see it, Gabe and Robbins were really key pieces to any possible roadmap.
Long way to go yet to see who ends up here. Just admit it, you don’t want to see a positive route.
 



Spottedmuskie

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Too bad he's leaving, but I don't blame him. Odds are he's read social media and seen his name blasted over and over. He always had to guard his own guy and help Carr guard his. His defense will be missed and it's crazy talk to think Ben talked him into leaving. I would also think Minneapolis being in the national spotlight also affects whether players want to be here or not. If I was in his shoes, I would probably leave as well. A fresh start mentally with different expectations and one final go at for a college career to find that jump shot again. Best of luck to Gabe
 

From the Parkinglot

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No, it's just the bathroom. We need one of those fancy auto flush everything and full bars on each end of the barn. Then we're solid.
I was just happy they added doors to the stalls of the bathrooms in the 1990’s. I loved the trough urinals like the metronome had. Can’t someone leave a space heater on in the winter and just burn the place down so we get some insurance proceeds?
 

alchemy2u

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Too bad he's leaving, but I don't blame him. Odds are he's read social media and seen his name blasted over and over. He always had to guard his own guy and help Carr guard his. His defense will be missed and it's crazy talk to think Ben talked him into leaving. I would also think Minneapolis being in the national spotlight also affects whether players want to be here or not. If I was in his shoes, I would probably leave as well. A fresh start mentally with different expectations and one final go at for a college career to find that jump shot again. Best of luck to Gabe
People have got to keep social media in its place. You can not let it ruin your life, it is just a bunch of fools and piranhas that do not have your best interest in mind. Running away from “bad comments“ is not the solution. How long do you think it will take for the ISU boards to get on his case about expectations, no matter how he plays. The Minneapolis situation is blown way out of proportion. If Mpls has a few idiot racist cops, what do you think they have in Ames?
 

Spottedmuskie

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People have got to keep social media in its place. You can not let it ruin your life, it is just a bunch of fools and piranhas that do not have your best interest in mind. Running away from “bad comments“ is not the solution. How long do you think it will take for the ISU boards to get on his case about expectations, no matter how he plays. The Minneapolis situation is blown way out of proportion. If Mpls has a few idiot racist cops, what do you think they have in Ames?
We have no control whether Gabe read comments or not and how he let it affect him. But it's pretty easy to guess
 

Gopherfan84

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People have got to keep social media in its place. You can not let it ruin your life, it is just a bunch of fools and piranhas that do not have your best interest in mind. Running away from “bad comments“ is not the solution. How long do you think it will take for the ISU boards to get on his case about expectations, no matter how he plays. The Minneapolis situation is blown way out of proportion. If Mpls has a few idiot racist cops, what do you think they have in Ames?
The only thing is when you are from here you can’t hide from it. Your parents can’t hide from it too. It just compounds and is a different pressure. Agreed though it’s something that does need to be managed, but these are college athletes not pros. When I was 18-21 I would’ve gotten more riled up of the stuff too. Now I could obviously care less
 




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