Foster decommits

[XMan]

I believe that if Pitino really wanted Ellis he would have gone after him and he would still be a Gopher. They obviously were not interested in Foster. If Pitino didn't have players he felt he can bring in to contribute, he wouldn't have let these two go. My guess is we see three new kids brought in soon. A point guard to help run his offense, and two decent sized forwards. Maybe Buckles, and Black and Malik Smith?

 

[Gopher Warrior]

I know it from reading numerous stories on transfers and recruiting.

As for the U of M scenario I'm not entirely sure. I believe this is how it works. The U of M cannot force him to play only for the U of M. However, if the U of M doesn't release him, then he cannot get a scholarship. Schools may also restrict which schools you may transfer to for purposes of a scholarship. I believe a player could transfer anywhere if he wants to pay his own way; however, I'm less confident in that statement than the rest I made.

The U could effectively force him to play for Minnesota or no one in 2013-14. (Again, would be terrible for business if schools did this.. but hypothetically speaking)... if a kid isn't released and doesn't fulfill his end of the bargain (i.e., doesn't attend a school for an academic year), generally the penalty will be that he has to spend a year at another school before becoming eligible AND he loses a year of competition eligibility (can play in 3 seasons instead of 4).

So... and let's not use Minnesota as an example because Ellis, Foster and the Gophers parting ways really doesn't sound like a hostile or unique situation... but, School X and Player Y enter into an NLI. Player Y wants out. School X says 'no'. Player Y then can't play at another member institution (member = a member of the NLI program ) in 2013-14 and also will only be able to compete in three seasons.

 

[matt]

Yes; Yes; No.

Under the NLI the U has agreed to provide Foster with athletic financial aid for the 2013-14 academic year, but Foster has also promised to attend Minnesota for one academic year. It's a two-way street.

Foster can say, "I don't care if you're not going to play me or allow me to be on the team (and in fact Minnesota doesn't have to play him or even allow him on the team - the NLI provides for financial aid), I'm going to the U and you're paying for it."

Neither party has to release the other. A complete release occurs because both parties agree to it.

Assuming Foster receives a complete release (don't believe he has - formally - as of yet), he can "commit" elsewhere and receive a scholarship from another institution for 2013-14, but he cannot sign an NLI.

Thanks GW.

I would think/hope that the staff was just being honest with Foster and told him that he didn't fit their style of play and would see limited minutes over the next 4 years. This allows Foster the chance to find a school where he can be a starter or solid contributor over the next 4 years and prevent him from having to transfer away from the U and sit out a year because he's unhappy with his role on the team. I still think it sucks that he has to go through this, but I'm glad (for his sake) he's doing it now and not 1 or 2 years from now. I also think that he'll land at a decent program. There are only so many Spring recruits available across the country and I'm sure that he is one of the better ones. We've already seen Alvin Ellis receive more interest now than he did in the Fall and I'm sure it has to do with good programs trying to fill the open scholarship they were saving for a player that committed elsewhere. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Foster gets a call from Tubby some time this week.

 

[GopherJake]

Thanks a lot guys. This clears a lot up for me on all this stuff.

One more thing. Are there rules about (another school) recruiting a kid who has already signed an NLI? Can Coach K work behind the scenes to continue to recruit a kid who has signed elsewhere, just in case Billy Bob, a junior from Duke, decides late to turn pro? Or is it Honor System? Or no rules?

 

[It's a Pig Man!]

Thanks a lot guys. This clears a lot up for me on all this stuff.

One more thing. Are there rules about (another school) recruiting a kid who has already signed an NLI? Can Coach K work behind the scenes to continue to recruit a kid who has signed elsewhere, just in case Billy Bob, a junior from Duke, decides late to turn pro? Or is it Honor System? Or no rules?

No, once a kid signs an NLI you can no longer recruit them (legally, I guarantee it happens plenty still.)

 

[GopherJake]

No, once a kid signs an NLI you can no longer recruit them (legally, I guarantee it happens plenty still.)

Thanks Pig Man!

 

[Parski1]

It was not handled correctly. Don't leave the kid hanging. According to Foster they were not even talking to or contacting the recruits. The new Coach should take care of his own kids first before he runs off to watch his Dad's team play. So abandon him and have your assistant call.

 

[Tater]

I believe that if Pitino really wanted Ellis he would have gone after him and he would still be a Gopher. They obviously were not interested in Foster. If Pitino didn't have players he felt he can bring in to contribute, he wouldn't have let these two go. My guess is we see three new kids brought in soon. A point guard to help run his offense, and two decent sized forwards. Maybe Buckles, and Black and Malik Smith?

When Ellis decommitted and the board blew up with criticism, I thought it was premature or uniformed. After all, a new coach would be named who could bring in his own recruits. We're not talking about losing Tyus Jones. Lets see what Pitino comes up with before we rip him and Teague for losing Ellis and now Foster.

 

[...]

It was not handled correctly. Don't leave the kid hanging. According to Foster they were not even talking to or contacting the recruits. The new Coach should take care of his own kids first before he runs off to watch his Dad's team play.

I'm not sure what's been going on with the athletic department's communication with recruits since Tubby's firing, but I don't think it's been handled well. I have no problem with Pitino talking to him and suggesting he go somewhere else because he doesn't fit into our system, but not talking to him at all is odd and unprofessional.

 

[westcoastgopher11]

Go out and get your players to run your system.

Cut the s***, in basketball more than any other DI sport you are signing an LOI to play for a coach, the school is completely secondary.

Foster and Ellis should have the freedom to go where ever they want with Tubby leaving. They were granted releases and likely will have attractive options still with many programs looking to fill spots for players they might have missed on.

No problem with CP telling Foster that they are going in a different direction. Better to just break it off rather than go through the charade for a year or two with no PT before a transfer. Less drama for all parties involved. This situation is magnified with the fact that there are so few scholarships for basketball, and smaller teams than say football.

CP is going to assemble a young, hungry staff and will out recruit many a name brand coach in my estimation. I will boldly predict that if we win 20+ games next year we will have the commitment of at least 2 of the big 3.

 

[XMan]

One thing is for sure......this has been one of the most interesting three weeks on the Gopher Hole than we have seen in a long time.

 

[howieramone]

When Ellis decommitted and the board blew up with criticism, I thought it was premature or uniformed. After all, a new coach would be named who could bring in his own recruits. We're not talking about losing Tyus Jones. Lets see what Pitino comes up with before we rip him and Teague for losing Ellis and now Foster.

I think the first order of business is to make up stories about what lousy recruits they were.

 

[...]

Go out and get your players to run your system.

Cut the s***, in basketball more than any other DI sport you are signing an LOI to play for a coach, the school is completely secondary.

Foster and Ellis should have the freedom to go where ever they want with Tubby leaving. They were granted releases and likely will have attractive options still with many programs looking to fill spots for players they might have missed on.

No problem with CP telling Foster that they are going in a different direction. Better to just break it off rather than go through the charade for a year or two with no PT before a transfer. Less drama for all parties involved. This situation is magnified with the fact that there are so few scholarships for basketball, and smaller teams than say football.

CP is going to assemble a young, hungry staff and will out recruit many a name brand coach in my estimation. I will boldly predict that if we win 20+ games next year we will have the commitment of at least 2 of the big 3.

I wouldn't either, the problem is that it sounds like they didn't tell him that because they didn't talk to him. I think it's the right thing to do to tell him he's not a good fit for your program, so it'd be best for him to go somewhere else.

 

[Parski1]

I will boldly predict that if we win 20+ games next year we will have the commitment of at least 2 of the big 3.

Yeah....you're sure boldly predicting...or drinking.

 

[Tucker32]

It was not handled correctly. Don't leave the kid hanging. According to Foster they were not even talking to or contacting the recruits. The new Coach should take care of his own kids first before he runs off to watch his Dad's team play. So abandon him and have your assistant call.

It's ridiculous how many people are making statements similar to this. No one really knows what the conversation was. However, the coaches being honest with the kid about how they see him is the best thing they could have done for him.

As a former high school coach I watched a kid go to a D1 school that had a coaching change prior to his freshman year. He went there anyway and sat on the bench his entire freshman year. He transferred, had to sit a year, and then started for two of his three years at the other school. He essentially lost a year of eligibility because the coach wasn't straight with him.

People need to quit making so many assumptions about things you have no clue about. Why assume the worst about the new coach? Can't you assume some positive intent on his part.

 

[Gopherguy0723]

I think the first order of business is to make up stories about what lousy recruits they were.

We don't need to make up stories. We can state data. According to ESPN Foster is the 59th best PF in the country. Mr. Ellis is the 56th best SG in the country. Rivals has them as 3 star recruits who are unranked at their position. That means, they are not even considered close to cream of the crop. I would call that lousy.

We don't make up stories. You simply bury your head in the sand. You see, I told you I'd keep this up if you are unable to create a defensible argument.

 

[Tater]

We don't need to make up stories. We can state data. According to ESPN Foster is the 59th best PF in the country. Mr. Ellis is the 56th best SG in the country. Rivals has them as 3 star recruits who are unranked at their position. That means, they are not even considered close to cream of the crop. I would call that lousy.

We don't make up stories. You simply bury your head in the sand. You see, I told you I'd keep this up if you are unable to create a defensible argument.

+1. Everyone needs to relax. After all, many around here said Tubby couldn't recruit very well yet they cry wolf when Tubby's recruits decommit. Let's see what Pitino brings in before passing judgment.

 

[KyGopherfan]

What I find disturbing is that Pitino didn't have the gnads to call Foster himself, so he sent out his Young to do it for him. I think Foster at least deserved to hear it straight from Pitino himself. Pitino weasled out and didn't wanna tell him, so he sends out some unnamed assistant to do it.

 

[60's Guy]

SLOW DOWN

It's ridiculous how many people are making statements similar to this. No one really knows what the conversation was. However, the coaches being honest with the kid about how they see him is the best thing they could have done for him.

As a former high school coach I watched a kid go to a D1 school that had a coaching change prior to his freshman year. He went there anyway and sat on the bench his entire freshman year. He transferred, had to sit a year, and then started for two of his three years at the other school. He essentially lost a year of eligibility because the coach wasn't straight with him.

People need to quit making so many assumptions about things you have no clue about. Why assume the worst about the new coach? Can't you assume some positive intent on his part.

Like Ozzy said, we have no clue. You call up these guys immediately and say hello....then what? you have never seen them play, (if you did you likely forgot) you didn't recruit them. You have not had time to evaluate them or the guys you inherited on campus. You have not had time to project scholarships going forward. You have no idea what your strengths and needs are. It's pretty difficult to have a conversation being unsure if you want this guy or you don't. It's better to wait until you have a clear idea.

I'm pretty sure they had a pretty good idea immediately because of how low these guys are rated. And maybe they saw them play somewhere last summer....or maybe dad or Billy did. They did some homework.

The easy explanation why Pitino called Tyus and Vaughn is because even if he didn't see them play, which is unlikely, he knows how highly rated they are. Not apples to apples.

Pitino is confident he can fill the spots with better fits for his needs. Letting those two guys go takes confidence and vision. It's going to be different in a positive way.
This is a positive not a negative. As Ozzy also said, it is a positive for the kids as well.

Nothing worse than coaching for a boss who did not hire you. It's even more so for a player to try an impress a coach who didn't recruit him. These guys get an opportunity to be "courted" all over again. Somebody will luv em.

 

[WILLBGOPHER]

I'll put my stock in combes1 corner. He's legit and is a very good evaluator of talent.

Sent from my LGL35G using Tapatalk 2

+1, this combes1 dude has not been impressed with Foster at all - i do think we dodged a bullet.

I have also seen Ellis play and can't believe Pitino wouldn't want him. He will be a player wherever he goes.

 

[millions2spare]

Pitino has his system and knows the kids of players he wants. Let's trust his judgement and wish Ellis and Foster the best. Pitino and staff did them both a favor when they released them to find a better situation. The questions are who will they bring in now? How many scholarships will they bank? Will any current players transfer (Hopefully Oto and Mo)?. Pitino wants all of his options open to either Bank them for 2014, to bring in an impact transfer, or JUCO. This allows him maximum flexibility given what he has to work with.

 

[station19]

It's ridiculous how many people are making statements similar to this. No one really knows what the conversation was. However, the coaches being honest with the kid about how they see him is the best thing they could have done for him.

As a former high school coach I watched a kid go to a D1 school that had a coaching change prior to his freshman year. He went there anyway and sat on the bench his entire freshman year. He transferred, had to sit a year, and then started for two of his three years at the other school. He essentially lost a year of eligibility because the coach wasn't straight with him.

People need to quit making so many assumptions about things you have no clue about. Why assume the worst about the new coach? Can't you assume some positive intent on his part.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[MadtownGopher]

Like Ozzy said, we have no clue. You call up these guys immediately and say hello....then what? you have never seen them play, (if you did you likely forgot) you didn't recruit them. You have not had time to evaluate them or the guys you inherited on campus. You have not had time to project scholarships going forward. You have no idea what your strengths and needs are. It's pretty difficult to have a conversation being unsure if you want this guy or you don't. It's better to wait until you have a clear idea.

I'm pretty sure they had a pretty good idea immediately because of how low these guys are rated. And maybe they saw them play somewhere last summer....or maybe dad or Billy did. They did some homework.

The easy explanation why Pitino called Tyus and Vaughn is because even if he didn't see them play, which is unlikely, he knows how highly rated they are. Not apples to apples.

Pitino is confident he can fill the spots with better fits for his needs. Letting those two guys go takes confidence and vision. It's going to be different in a positive way.
This is a positive not a negative. As Ozzy also said, it is a positive for the kids as well.

Nothing worse than coaching for a boss who did not hire you. It's even more so for a player to try an impress a coach who didn't recruit him. These guys get an opportunity to be "courted" all over again. Somebody will luv em.

QFT

 

[bga1]

Go out and get your players to run your system.

Cut the s***, in basketball more than any other DI sport you are signing an LOI to play for a coach, the school is completely secondary.

Foster and Ellis should have the freedom to go where ever they want with Tubby leaving. They were granted releases and likely will have attractive options still with many programs looking to fill spots for players they might have missed on.

No problem with CP telling Foster that they are going in a different direction. Better to just break it off rather than go through the charade for a year or two with no PT before a transfer. Less drama for all parties involved. This situation is magnified with the fact that there are so few scholarships for basketball, and smaller teams than say football.

CP is going to assemble a young, hungry staff and will out recruit many a name brand coach in my estimation. I will boldly predict that if we win 20+ games next year we will have the commitment of at least 2 of the big 3.

I am pretty sure those two events will be wholly unrelated. The chance that the big 3 wait until spring to see how we do is almost nil. That said - I have confidence in young Pitino and I think we may just do both.

 

[gopherphan]

1. Someone please ban kelly. his only 'contributions' if you can call them that is spouting bull*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# about abortion.

2. Can people stop complaining and comparing recruits from the sun belt? Saying that we're better than that? Do you not understand that what Tubby has gotten us for 6 years has mostly been Sun Belt quality guys? lol.

 

[98VQueens]

I believe that if Pitino really wanted Ellis he would have gone after him and he would still be a Gopher. They obviously were not interested in Foster. If Pitino didn't have players he felt he can bring in to contribute, he wouldn't have let these two go. My guess is we see three new kids brought in soon. A point guard to help run his offense, and two decent sized forwards. Maybe Buckles, and Black and Malik Smith?

@MnHoops @leeksmith24 Malik Smith could be a very good fit paired with @AndreHollins & @aHolli_20 next year. Retweeted by Malik Smith

Is there any chance he could play next year or is this about the 2014-15 season?

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/62378/malik-smith

 

[SelectionSunday]

To repeat as with Ellis, collateral damage. This is standard fare when there's a coaching change. Why should the new coach keep an incoming prospect that he doesn't see as a fit for his program?

As Millions put it, "Let's trust his (Pitino's) judgement and wish Ellis and Foster the best."

 

[bga1]

To repeat as with Ellis, collateral damage. This is standard fare when there's a coaching change. Why should the new coach keep an incoming prospect that he doesn't see as a fit for his program?

As Millions put it, "Let's trust his (Pitino's) judgement and wish Ellis and Foster the best."

I, for one, am excited that Pitino feels he has a better plan in the works than Foster. My guess is that he didn't have much choice on Ellis. Looks to me like he wants to rent a couple of experienced guys for this coming season (perhaps Buckles, Smith and a juco) to get off to a great start and then load up with a big 5 player class this Fall. The only thing I can think of with Ellis is that Teague and Mike Ellis may have thought that Alvin Ellis could be a deterrent to getting Vaughn signed (same position?) and decided to take their chances.

This is going to be really fun to watch unfold.

 

[WolfontheProwl]

This happens all the time not sure why some here think it shouldn't or won't. We are not losing players who come in and make you say WOW we are losing two very low level recruits. Reading up on Foster I am really questioning why he was offered a scholarship anyway. Losing Foster and Ellis is not a major concern for me in fact is ends Tubby's pretty ordinary recruiting a year early and allows Pitino to sign his own guys or to stock pile scholarships for next year/

 

[jaymil]

I, for one, am excited that Pitino feels he has a better plan in the works than Foster. My guess is that he didn't have much choice on Ellis. Looks to me like he wants to rent a couple of experienced guys for this coming season (perhaps Buckles, Smith and a juco) to get off to a great start and then load up with a big 5 player class this Fall. The only thing I can think of with Ellis is that Teague and Mike Ellis may have thought that Alvin Ellis could be a deterrent to getting Vaughn signed (same position?) and decided to take their chances.

This is going to be really fun to watch unfold.

I'm hoping this is his plan. I won't be too excited if he signs a few high school seniors this class since the pickings are slim at this point and that would take up scholarships for the 2014 class (unless of course he can grab a few of the remaining top players, unlikely though). Ideally, he brings in two players who have one more year left and maybe a JUCO (like Cameron Forte) who has a few years left and can help even out the classes. That would leave him with 5 scholarships for next year like you said. Sounds like Buckles is a given if he's able to play this coming year.