Former Gopher A.J. Barker arrested UPDATED 5/9: Sid says AJ wants back on team

Even if that was the case, going to see an acupuncturist rather than icing your ankle is severely dumb.

You don't know sh*t about AJ's injury and the best way it needed to be treated. America is littered with ex-athletes who are old before their time, physically disabled, or suffering from dementia because they followed the orders of their coaches and trainers without questioning them. The days of athletes not taking responsibility for their own health and well-being are rapidly coming to a close. AJ is ahead of his time in that regard.
 

You don't know sh*t about AJ's injury and the best it needed to be treated. America is littered with ex-athletes who are old before their time, crippled, or suffering from dementia because they followed the orders of their coaches and trainers without questioning them. The days of athletes not taking responsibility for their own health and well being are rapidly coming to a close. AJ is ahead of his time in that regard.


Ha. You just started listing random information that has NOTHING to do with anything that we were talking about.

Did I say that I had an issue with AJ seeking another opinion on his own? Nope.
Could AJ suffer dementia because of an ankle injury? Well, maybe AJ could, but most people could NOT.
Did I say anything about AJ taking responsibility for his own health in lieu of the U's prognosis? Nope.

I ripped on him for seeing an acupuncturist rather than ice his ankle.
I would have also ripped on him for casting a spell on his injured ankle. I would have also ripped on him for having a Mayouri High Priestess do an "injured ankle dance" for him.

The fact is that icing his ankle could NEVER have caused him dementia (well, again, most people) and it could never have crippled him. To blow that off in order to see an acupuncturist is laughable and he deserves to be ripped for that.

Now, AGAIN, I did not rip on AJ for getting another opinion, I did not rip on AJ for saying "something's not right here", he should look out for himself. However, when his "looking out for his own health" involves that kind of absurdity....he should get ripped.

If you'd rather list some more irrelevant facts, your last tirade was entertaining. If you'd rather rejoin the conversation, read carefully and welcome back!
 

You don't know sh*t about AJ's injury and the best way it needed to be treated. America is littered with ex-athletes who are old before their time, crippled, or suffering from dementia because they followed the orders of their coaches and trainers without questioning them. The days of athletes not taking responsibility for their own health and well-being are rapidly coming to a close. AJ is ahead of his time in that regard.

Exactly, just ask Royce White. :banghead:
 


Did they "misdiagnose" or did barker refuse medical treatment? Pretty bold and arrogant statement you have made, as if you know it as fact when in reality you have no idea because you weren't there. I really enjoy your takes from time to time But you weren't in the room with barker and the medical staff so IMO you have a biased opinion and decided to make it factual without evidence. Nice try

You are correct I was not there and I should have added "if AJ version is correct" like I have done every other time when talking about this subject.

I had to giggle on the whole your opinion thing. My man, my opinion (the one I have yet to fully share) is based on first hand experience with the medical staff...and yet I don't besmirch yours like you do what you believe is mine.
 


Sometimes people who are closest to a situation (like the gopher program), or think they are, they are the ones that are the most irrational and least trustworthy in their assessments. In your case sportsfan24, you fit the bill perfectly. Yes your son was on the team, great, and yes you do know some things we don't, but at the same time you hold clear grudges against Kill that seem based on a your own subjective opinions, and not objective rational takes. You backing everything that A.J. claims (im sure he didn't fabricate everything, but he sure did alot) is quite hilarious to watch. Its like when everyone was saying" oh no, our President would never get a BJ in the white house, that could never happen". Lol My man you are a riot. Keep it up:cool:

God you are dense.

Not that it matters but on every thred back to the day of the infamous manifesto release I have said that I believed both the Jer and AJ may be victims of the medical staff. It is simply untrue that I have backed AJ on everything.

My head hurts every time some lame (you) try to minimize my opinion when they disagree by playing the biased card. Who has been more honest than I on admitting unflattering things about themselves on this board? I'm HONEST like that.

I have no problem with you disagreeing with my opinion (mine is no better than the next guy) but don't insult my integrity.
 

AJ screwed up. Twice. The big business of D1 football won't take him, as he's a liability. People can argue who's right or wrong, but as it stands now, he's not worth the risk.

I have no problem with him getting acupuncture. I do have a problem with him doing it instead of icing. If he'd done both, I'd be ok with it. Is there anyone who wouldn't?

Just curious to where he lands (he probably won't)
 

Parents of kids who play for a program can't possibly be rational of impartial, sorry SF24, unless everything goes exactly how they think it should for their kid. Parents of kids good enough to play BCS football aren't used to hearing that their kid just "isn't THAT good". When that fact is clearly revealed on the field, it CANNOT possibly be the fault of the kid. It is obvious that the coach is mis/under-utilizing him. I've seen it countless times. I wouldn't be shocked if AJ's parents still think that Kill drove him to smoke weed.
 

AJ will be fine. He was the 3rd leading receiver in the Big Ten before being injured and will find a team to play next season. A NDSU type will easily take him with or with out a scholarship. AJ will be playing next fall.
 



You don't know sh*t about AJ's injury and the best way it needed to be treated. America is littered with ex-athletes who are old before their time, physically disabled, or suffering from dementia because they followed the orders of their coaches and trainers without questioning them. The days of athletes not taking responsibility for their own health and well-being are rapidly coming to a close. AJ is ahead of his time in that regard.

Is there a list of athletes that have benefited from thumbing their noses and ignoring medical advice from athletic training staffs?
 

Is there a list of athletes that have benefited from thumbing their noses and ignoring medical advice from athletic training staffs?

Since there have been very few coaches and trainers of Division I football history who haven't wanted to get their players back in the starting line up as quickly as possible after an injury I have no doubt that the list of athletes who have benefited by going to their own doctors for an opinion is lengthy. Unless an athlete is good enough to play pro ball (pro teams judge athletes on their ability to play with injuries) they are foolish if they totally trust the judgement of their coaches and athletic trainers about serious injuries.

I have never met a parent who hasn't tried to find the best doctors they could afford to take care of their children. Why is that? Because nobody wants a doctor who finished at the bottom of his medical school class in charge of the health and future well-being of their children. It is common sense. Coaches and trainers have the built-in pressure to win that can cause them to want to get their injured athletes back in the game as quickly as possible. For that reason they are not always to be trusted to make proper decisions about serious injuries.
 

Since there have been very few coaches and trainers of Division I football teams in history who haven't wanted to get their players back in the starting line up as quickly as possible after an injury I have no doubt that the list of athletes who have benefited by going to their own doctors for an opinion is lengthy. Unless an athlete is good enough to play pro ball (pro teams judge athletes on their ability to play with injuries) they foolish if they totally trust the judgement of their coaches and athletic trainers about serious injuries.

I have never met a parent who hasn't hasn't tried looked for the best doctors they could afford to take care of their children. Why is that? Because nobody wants a doctor who finished at the bottom of his medical class in charge of the health and future well-being of their children. It is common sense. Coaches and trainers have the built-in pressure to win that can cause them to want to get their injured athletes back in the game as quickly as possible. For that reason they are not always to be trusted to make proper decisions about serious injuries.

Great point and I would also pose a question.

Who pays the football medical staff (at any university, not just the U) and when does morality to the patient who will no longer be a patient in anywhere from 5 years to the end of that season supersede the pay checks to feed themselves and their families? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where their loyalties lie.

The players in college sport have no representation what so ever. Most will say "so what, they get a free education and if they don't like it don't play."

I agree that there is some truth in that statement, I would also agree that the same folks who say that would have a different tune if the same sentiment manifested itself in their day to day lives.

Me? I say there is room for improvement without throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Most players are conditioned that playing with pain is a sign of toughness, in addition their window of opportunities (new batch of players coming in every summer and eligibility clock counting down) are so small they will do, and willingly believe anything to be on the field.

It's also not easy on even the ethical coaches, how do they determine between the wimp who can't play through a little pain and a player facing legitimate injuries....especially if the person or persons (talking specificly about AJ, Kill and the U's medical staff) responsible for making the diagnoses, misdiagnoses the severity of an injury (if indeed this happened). Put that with a tough coach who will put himself at whatever risk do to his job in the face of his own difficult medical history and to me that’s a recipe for at best the AJ situation or worse.

Note: For the weak minded; this is not a dig at coach Kill but actually a compliment. However; you can’t have it both ways; it’s fair to wonder if a tough as nuts person who is okay with making a decision on his health that most wouldn’t, might unfairly expect someone else to do the same thing (if it indeed happened as AJ described)?

I would also put an equal amount of blame/responsibility on the parents (in general). They loose judgment and what should be their first priority….their child in the face of stardom and a free education. Folks will get a 2nd opinion for diaper rash but will allow a complete stranger whose loyalties don’t rest with their child to tell them what they want to hear; that little James is alright to play and don’t get/bother with a 2nd opinion from someone whose primary concern is for the LONGTERM health of their patient.

What’s the answer? I don’t know, I just know that it needs to be discussed. Under the current system they (colleges and coaches), have added games, no limits in the amount of contact the players are subjected too all in the name of generating more money. Why would anyone doubt that they (not talking about Kill and the U) wouldn’t encourage/mandate their work force to play injured (not hurt, there is a big difference).

Oh, I forgot….I’m a biased parent who can’t have an opinion because……I’m biased and to emotional and have never been told no; little James is not good enough.:rolleyes:
 

Everybody reads the same story/account and everybody reads something different into it. That about sums up the situation here.

The pro-Barker contingent (for lack of a better way to put it) is clinging to the part of the story that addresses the injury and how both parties approached the injury. To me, after reading the manifesto once or twice, the injury comprises about 10% of the situation. But some people want to cling to that angle as it's pretty much the only part of the entire scenario that COULD hold any water.

Barker's manifesto, in my opinion, was 80-90% about Barker not being catered to in the fashion in which he thought a productive 4-5 games warranted. Repeatedly using phrases like "mind games" and "he told me I'm a dime a dozen", "manipulative", "deceitful", "cement my place in Gopher history" (my personal favorite), "lying", "intimidation", "shaming", etc. backs this up unequivocally. Kill didn't tell him what he wanted to hear, he got pissy, and stomped off.

The injury situation? I don't have a clue what really happened, or even who was more right than anyone else (other than Barker was a completely f'n unabashed idiot for not icing the ankle at the very least). I don't know what really happened, what the correct treatment should/would have been.

In summary, if you can read that manifesto, as well as watch and LISTEN to the interviews shortly after, and conclude that this was for the most part about an ankle injury, you are really really REALLY reaching....

BTW, it's ironic that early on in his manifesto, Barker said "I haven't gotten in trouble with the law", and "I don't have any demons in my closet." Ooops....
 



Ogee Oglethorpe

Great summary and analysis as to what this was really all about! The injury part of this story is a red herring. The real story is that Kill wasn't going to award him a scholarship at that time and he couldn't accept that. Everything else and AJ begins to spin out of control from there.
 

Great point and I would also pose a question.

Who pays the football medical staff (at any university, not just the U) and when does morality to the patient who will no longer be a patient in anywhere from 5 years to the end of that season supersede the pay checks to feed themselves and their families? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where their loyalties lie.

The players in college sport have no representation what so ever. Most will say "so what, they get a free education and if they don't like it don't play."

I agree that there is some truth in that statement, I would also agree that the same folks who say that would have a different tune if the same sentiment manifested itself in their day to day lives.

Me? I say there is room for improvement without throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Most players are conditioned that playing with pain is a sign of toughness, in addition their window of opportunities (new batch of players coming in every summer and eligibility clock counting down) are so small they will do, and willingly believe anything to be on the field.

It's also not easy on even the ethical coaches, how do they determine between the wimp who can't play through a little pain and a player facing legitimate injuries....especially if the person or persons (talking specificly about AJ, Kill and the U's medical staff) responsible for making the diagnoses, misdiagnoses the severity of an injury (if indeed this happened). Put that with a tough coach who will put himself at whatever risk do to his job in the face of his own difficult medical history and to me that’s a recipe for at best the AJ situation or worse.

Note: For the weak minded; this is not a dig at coach Kill but actually a compliment. However; you can’t have it both ways; it’s fair to wonder if a tough as nuts person who is okay with making a decision on his health that most wouldn’t, might unfairly expect someone else to do the same thing (if it indeed happened as AJ described)?

I would also put an equal amount of blame/responsibility on the parents (in general). They loose judgment and what should be their first priority….their child in the face of stardom and a free education. Folks will get a 2nd opinion for diaper rash but will allow a complete stranger whose loyalties don’t rest with their child to tell them what they want to hear; that little James is alright to play and don’t get/bother with a 2nd opinion from someone whose primary concern is for the LONGTERM health of their patient.

What’s the answer? I don’t know, I just know that it needs to be discussed. Under the current system they (colleges and coaches), have added games, no limits in the amount of contact the players are subjected too all in the name of generating more money. Why would anyone doubt that they (not talking about Kill and the U) wouldn’t encourage/mandate their work force to play injured (not hurt, there is a big difference).

Oh, I forgot….I’m a biased parent who can’t have an opinion because……I’m biased and to emotional and have never been told no; little James is not good enough.:rolleyes:

Really tired of your comments, and Go4Broke's, regarding the medical staff. I know, from a similar first hand experience to yours, that the staff cares deeply about their work, and puts their ethics before what the coach wants. Your comments are insulting, degrading and untrue. Does that mean you didn't have a less than positive experience? No. And, it doesn't mean a lack of ethics, incompetence, or misguided loyalty on the part of the medical staff who I know very well.
 

Really tired of your comments, and Go4Broke's, regarding the medical staff. I know, from a similar first hand experience to yours, that the staff cares deeply about their work, and puts their ethics before what the coach wants. Your comments are insulting, degrading and untrue. Does that mean you didn't have a less than positive experience? No. And, it doesn't mean a lack of ethics, incompetence, or misguided loyalty on the part of the medical staff who I know very well.

First off for the most part I was speaking in general terms and not specifically about the U are it's medical staff. I was speaking more to the fact that players have no representation and are dependent upon the ethics of the schools they attend.

As to my comments being degrading and untrue; how would you know?
 




Man this thread sucks.

I agree, and appologize for my part (being serious).

In an effort to get along, from now on I will stay with "rah, rah all is fair and honorable in gopher world and there are no injustices or areas of gray (sarcasm)........at least until I feel differently (want to piss someone off).:eek:
 

Since there have been very few coaches and trainers of Division I football history who haven't wanted to get their players back in the starting line up as quickly as possible after an injury I have no doubt that the list of athletes who have benefited by going to their own doctors for an opinion is lengthy. Unless an athlete is good enough to play pro ball (pro teams judge athletes on their ability to play with injuries) they are foolish if they totally trust the judgement of their coaches and athletic trainers about serious injuries.

I have never met a parent who hasn't tried to find the best doctors they could afford to take care of their children. Why is that? Because nobody wants a doctor who finished at the bottom of his medical school class in charge of the health and future well-being of their children. It is common sense. Coaches and trainers have the built-in pressure to win that can cause them to want to get their injured athletes back in the game as quickly as possible. For that reason they are not always to be trusted to make proper decisions about serious injuries.

I see your point but as far as ankle injuries go I think the medical staff had the right treatment and AJ chose to go a different route. I've never heard (until AJ's injury that is) any physicial or medical staff or anyone else for that matter recommend to not ice a sprained ankle. I have never in my life heard that you will or may have a lesser quality of life if you ice an ankle and will heal it completely and it will be like it never happended if you don't ice it and use accupuncture and massage instead. It's a pretty common injury with a pretty common rehab process. I'm sure there are alternatives but have never heard that any are much better if at all than icing it.
 

if he doesn't get a scholarship and selects an out of state non repro school. well, that'll cost his parents thousands more.
AJ, just come back to the U and light that fire to succeed in the Big Ten. The power of forgiveness coupled with humility changes lives.
 

if he doesn't get a scholarship and selects an out of state non repro school. well, that'll cost his parents thousands more.
AJ, just come back to the U and light that fire to succeed in the Big Ten. The power of forgiveness coupled with humility changes lives.

I can't imagine the coaching staff inviting Barker back to the team with the approach he took during his departure.
 

I can see both sides of the injury/trainers issue. I have no doubt that there is pressure on players to get back in the lineup, and if a player genuinely feels that his/her injury is not being property diagnosed or treated, that could lead to problems. At the same time, if a player does have a legitimate injury, there is nothing to be gained by rushing the player back into action, because he/she will not be able to contribute at their normal level.

There can easily be frustration from both sides - the player is frustrated at being injured and not playing, and the coaches are frustrated because the player is not available. You have to hope that the doctors/training staff are operating in an ethical fashion, and would not do anything that might result in additional injury to an athlete.

Having said that - there are real advances being made at the HS level when it comes to concussions. More schools are mandating that all athletes have baseline tests before the season, and if an athlete is suspected of having a concussion, they are held out of contract until they pass the impact test. I know a girl who was a 2-sport athlete - she got a concussion in January of 2012, and still has not been cleared to return to playing. So, at least at this level, someone is looking out for the players' best interest.
 

First off for the most part I was speaking in general terms and not specifically about the U are it's medical staff. I was speaking more to the fact that players have no representation and are dependent upon the ethics of the schools they attend.

As to my comments being degrading and untrue; how would you know?

I thought I insinuated that close enough. I am associated with medical/training staff in a similar way that you are to a former player.
 

I thought I insinuated that close enough. I am associated with medical/training staff in a similar way that you are to a former player.

I'm changing my response. You are correct, I'm wrong, the U has the best medical team in college sports.

On a serious note; I'm sure you raised a wonderful and ethical child.
 

Sportsfan you are so full of it. Earlier in this thread you called the U's medical staff "scary bad". How is that speaking in general terms?
 


Sportsfan you are so full of it. Earlier in this thread you called the U's medical staff "scary bad". How is that speaking in general terms?

Back then I was lying, now I'm telling the truth.:confused:
 





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