Focusing in on Kill's B1G recruiting style

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A few of the posters are dancing around what I see as the key question - how much time will Kill have to put his system in place, and see if it works?

Wren talks about a slow-and-steady approach - which may in fact be a good way to build a FB program - but in today's short-attention span climate, will Kill be given the time he needs?

I'm all for recuiting good character kids who have the potential to grow into productive players - but, I think Kill is going to have to nail at least a few high-profile kids too. Coming off the Brewster experience, I get the sense that the casual fans and the media are not going to have the patience for a long, slow building process. Somehow, Kill is going to have to find a way to win some games, and I mean win now - not 3 or 4 years from now.

Let's not forget - when Brewster landed Gray, a lot of people were on this board crowing about how Minn was finally going to be able to land the big-name recruits. Perception is reality - when a program is able to recruit highly-rated kids, that creates a perception that will help land other top recruits. And, when a program is unable to recruit highly-rated kids, that also creates a perception.

I'm not saying that Kill won't be able to get it done. I'm saying I'm worried that he won't be given enough time to get it done. I hope I'm wrong.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Perception is reality - when a program is able to recruit highly-rated kids, that creates a perception that will help land other top recruits. And, when a program is unable to recruit highly-rated kids, that also creates a perception.
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If this were completely true then Brew would have kept landing big name recruits. As many have noted already, this is not an equation with a simple or single correct answer.
 

imthewalrus said:
the 0-8 Big Ten record that happened at the end of the Mason era
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False. The 0-8 record was after the Mason era, not at the end of it. Mason had a lot to do with Brewster's tenure, but Brewster had absolutely nothing to do with Mason's tenure. There is no argument to be made otherwise. That is what Unregistered is saying.

imthewalrus said:
So, you can NEVER mention Mason, prexy b, bjm OR brewster without the immediate result of having the the total failure of the program in 2007 to prove what total idiots prexy b and bjm were at the end of 2006.
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False. The hiring of Brewster has zero to do with the firing of Mason. A mistake in hiring does not mean a mistake in firing.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Coming off the Brewster experience, I get the sense that the casual fans and the media are not going to have the patience for a long, slow building process. Somehow, Kill is going to have to find a way to win some games, and I mean win now - not 3 or 4 years from now.
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I don't think he has to win now. I do think he has to avoid losing big in the games he does lose or losing too many (read: no 1-11). Brew dug himself a huge hole with 1-11. IMO that plus all the other factors that were not pleasant to see (constant coordinator changes, bad results versus 1AA schools, etc) got the masses ready to pull the trigger more quickly than would normally be expected. Had Brew delivered a 4 or 5 win first season, won all the 1AA games, and kept his coordinators I think he would have been given more leash following two bowl seasons.
 

Two painfully obvious points:

1) anything TCU has done or is doing is irrelevant until they play a full BCS conference schedule. Doesn't matter if they beat a couple teams or won the Rose Bowl. A full BCS conference schedule wears down even the toughest schools. Until they do it, they've proved nothing in my book.

2) the "ranking" of the recruits that Kill signs up to play at Minnesota is utterly irrelevant to anything IF he can get them to win. I'll take low ranked recruits so long as Kill wins with them. I could care less if any Kill recruit is ever drafted in the NFL. I want wins while they're playing at Minnesota.

If Kill can make the team a winner with lower ranked recruits - I'll sign on for that right now. Give me the pen! Then all you folks who give these entertainment sites (rivals, etc.) your credit card numbers should feel stupid.
 


dpodoll68 said:
False. The 0-8 record was after the Mason era, not at the end of it. Mason had a lot to do with Brewster's tenure, but Brewster had absolutely nothing to do with Mason's tenure. There is no argument to be made otherwise. That is what Unregistered is saying.
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Seriously! Even by Wren standards the logic he's trying to beat into us here is just nuts!
 

BisonGopher said:
1) anything TCU has done or is doing is irrelevant until they play a full BCS conference schedule. Doesn't matter if they beat a couple teams or won the Rose Bowl. A full BCS conference schedule wears down even the toughest schools. Until they do it, they've proved nothing in my book.
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So when they start winning the Big East next year you'll be all good? :)
 

s.o.n. There is NO fast way to do it. Somehow, begging, borrowing, stealing some...

Big Ten wins is going to be as good as it gets. Recruiting solid kids...recruiting the best you can...recruiting for your system and then working to coach those kids into the kind of players who fit the system, being disciplined, eleminating mistakes, turn overs and costly, foolish penalties will also help. Having two or three other Big Ten teams that "on paper" you could beat and compete with right now will provide the opportunity to get the 1...2...or EVEN 3 Big Ten wins that you need in year number one that will give the coach the chance to coach at least a 5th year at the U of M. History shows us that there must be at least one Big Ten win in the first season.

And, you keep recruiting good, solid kids and you keep coaching them...teaching them...letting them grow emotionally, physically, intellectually, socially and as a teammember...season after season...year after year. Still have them 3 years into their college careers...4 years and those who redshirted five years into their college careers. In the first four seasons, 12 to 14 Big Ten wins will be needed at the very least. 2 to 3 bowl game appearances will be needed. 1 to 2 bowl WINS will be needed. By this time, there will be some All-Big Ten players playing on this team. There WILL be some upper-class men providing leadership.

The administration will need to be unflinching in their complete and total support of this coach, his staff. By the end of the third season, provided there have been 8 to 10 Big Ten wins, the program has been completely clean and good academic progress by the student athletes has been maintained and accomplished, there will need to be a contract extension for the coach and his staff. The administration will need to promote a TRUE Big Ten Level Game Day Experience for the ticket buyers/students for EVERY home game.

There will be NO immediate or "quick" fixes s. o. n. The fantasy high school recruiting ranking publications will not be talking about the incredible job of landing four and five star candidates the University of Minnesota is doing. It is just NOT going to happen, so you can just forget about that. Improvement is going to be made through hard work, much coaching, landing coachable kids and by the coach being true to what his experience has taught him.

I believe that the media will look for improvement and will be truthful about what they see. I do NOT believe that "everybody" has to sing the company line as far as this board goes. Some will be skeptical...some will believe...but, improvement will show itself in Big Ten wins vs Big Ten losses. That first FOUR Big Ten win seson is going to be exciting. Stretch it out to a five win Big Ten Season and we will ALL be having a pretty darn good time with Gopher Football IF we let ourselves be honest. A Six Win Big Ten Season...maybe...hopefully magically, mystically...incredible IF it ever happens!

Build it...nurture it...embrace it as it starts to happen. What the hell is wrong with building a program...starting to become competetive...BEING there?????

Instant gratification is NOT coming to a stadium near the "U" Not now. Not ever. It is going to take a bunch of begged, borrowed and stolen Big Ten Wins to mark improvement and competetivness...but there will be NO instant gratification. The media...the fans...the message board participants are just going to have to be patient. That is NOT a bad thing, s. o. n.

; 0 )
 

BisonGopher said:
Then all you folks who give these entertainment sites (rivals, etc.) your credit card numbers should feel stupid.
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You are aware that you can see the rankings from Rivals without paying for them, yes? I have never given Rivals a dime of my money, nor will I ever.
 



dpodoll68 said:
False. The 0-8 record was after the Mason era, not at the end of it. Mason had a lot to do with Brewster's tenure, but Brewster had absolutely nothing to do with Mason's tenure. There is no argument to be made otherwise. That is what Unregistered is saying.

I said:

"The stark contrast in going immediately to ZERO Big Ten wins is complete evidence that prexy b and badger jole macturi were complete idiots to have had NO coach lined up to take over the job. THEY picked the time to fire their former coach...they were incompetent for not having a qualified coach to take over the program."


False. The hiring of Brewster has zero to do with the firing of Mason. A mistake in hiring does not mean a mistake in firing.
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Competent administrators when they get to time firing one coach have COMPLETE responsibility for replacing that coach with one who is experienced and capable of winning at least one Big Ten game his first season. The coaches are NOT the ones who fired or hired themselves. It it the stinking administrators who dictated when Mason would be fired and who totally screwed up by hiring an inexperienced idiot to take over the program. prexy b and bjm MUST be ridiculed for their incompetence.


keep reaching...talking your points dopodoll...but...I will concentrate on MY perspective of what happened. The coaches have NOTHING to do with this. This is ALL an indictment of prexy b and badger joel macturi. They picked their poision and they picked when they would fire. They were SO stupid and incompetent that they had NO ONE waiting in the wings who WAS a Big Ten level coach. How incompetent and guilty they are...have been and will always be for having brought us that 0 Big Ten wins season in 2007. bjm should have been kicked out, thrown under the bus and abandoned right then and there. But, he is STILL at the U of M. How pathetic.

; 0 )
 

there are some long winded inanities in this thread and i think that OOG's argument has been shown to be flawed well enough (if not by the very fact that he continues to make absolute statements about a recruiting class that is no where near finished).

but i wanted to zero in on this statement:

Oneoldgopher said:
They did the same at NIU but it became harder to defeat better talented teams and he won only ~50% of those games. We will NEVER enter the top tier without top talent.
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so he beat better teams at a 50% clip at NIU an you seem to think that this is a bad thing. we just got finished with a coach who defeated better teams at a 0% clip and had a losing percentage to worse teams of about 90% (i made that number up, but it is probably not far off).

let's project that horrible 50% winning percentage over better teams to the gophers 2011 schedule just for s417s and giggles.

if we go by the rankings of most of the preseason mags, then we can all agree that minnesota is better than only one other big ten team, indiana. since indiana is not on the gopher schedule, we can assume that all eight big ten teams on the gopher schedule are better teams. that would give the gophers a 4-4 record in the big ten, a better record in the big ten than any year going back to 2005. i will take a 4-4 record in the big ten any day of the year.

this is all conjecture, and flawed at that. but i am not sure how you come to the conclusion that beating better teams at a 50% rate is somehow a bad thing. i would be happy with a 30% rate or even a 20% rate. anything will be better than the recent 0% rate under brewster. what's more, i doubt that even ohio state has a record of 50% against better teams.
 

imthewalrus said:
Competent administrators when they get to time firing one coach have COMPLETE responsibility for replacing that coach with one who is experienced and capable of winning at least one Big Ten game his first season. The coaches are NOT the ones who fired or hired themselves. It it the stinking administrators who dictated when Mason would be fired and who totally screwed up by hiring an inexperienced idiot to take over the program. prexy b and bjm MUST be ridiculed for their incompetence.
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That's great. Remind me again what making a poor hire has to do with making a good fire?

(P.S. Since you won't leave, and the mods won't kick you off, can you at least learn how to use the quote function properly? K thanks.)
 




The Superpowers and the Near Super

Top 25 Recruiting as of June 23rd
Texas 17 recruits (r), 4.1 star (avg)
Oklahoma 10 (r), 4.0
California 2, 4.0
Florida 13, 3.6
Auburn 10, 3.6
Michigan 16, 3.6
Ohio State 8, 3.5
Alabama 14, 3.5
Notre Dame 10, 3.5
Nebraska 4, 3.5
USC 10, 3.4
Penn St 8, 3.4
Boston College 3, 3.3
Florida State 13, 3.3
OK St 7, 3.3
OR 7, 3.3
Clemson 11, 3.3
Maryland 4, 3.3
TX A/M 21, 3.2
Arkansas 7, 3.1
SC 8, 3.1
TCU 12, 3.1
Miami (FL) 16, 3.1
Michigan St 8, 3.0
Oregon St, 5, 3.0
Minnesota (46 spots below Oregon State) 8, 1.9

Top 25 programs already have an average of 10 players accepted and 3.4 star average.
I don't buy into the argument that Kill is doing this on purpose. I buy the argument that Kill is landing ill prepared talent for the level we need to succeed. These recruits will be seniors in 5 years. The problem is this leaves the team bereft of talent to succeed. If this team is going to turn around, we need to land 3.0 star athletes. He did last year, he should repeat that again this year. No excuse should be offered for lowering the bar from last year to this year. Why excuse the inexcusable.

Jerry Kill where are your competitive recruits? Why have you lowered the bar for athletes at the U of M? Why is the team lagging in quality recruits accepting our offers? Answer these questions now because on National Signing Day it will be too late.
 

What a bunch of nits

Why should any of us accept lower capable athletes this recruiting class than last year? There seems to be a lack of accountability or simple standards for recruiting players. Is all the talk a smoke screen or are we witnessing a catastrophic failure to hire the right person for the job? Why have so many succumbed to the belief that a long view of player development doesn't start from a higher standard recruit? Alice is this wonderland? Hello! Some of you called for Brewster's head and demanded accountability. Did you have accountable standards or did you just shelve them out of convenience?
 

Well, I can now add MMM to the list of "freakout" posters to shake my head at. You point will hold a lot more salience...come about mid October. Until then, you're freaking out about star rankings when the recruiting sites haven't even done their post camp rerankings. This is just one of the many reasons why freaking out in June on the FIRST CLASS for a coach is beyond silly. I don't care if people have reservations. I do too, though admittedly not as strong as some. But this chicken little stuff is just insane.
 

Mustang Mountain Man said:
Top 25 Recruiting as of June 23rd
Texas 17 recruits (r), 4.1 star (avg)
Oklahoma 10 (r), 4.0
California 2, 4.0
Florida 13, 3.6
Auburn 10, 3.6
Michigan 16, 3.6
Ohio State 8, 3.5
Alabama 14, 3.5
Notre Dame 10, 3.5
Nebraska 4, 3.5
USC 10, 3.4
Penn St 8, 3.4
Boston College 3, 3.3
Florida State 13, 3.3
OK St 7, 3.3
OR 7, 3.3
Clemson 11, 3.3
Maryland 4, 3.3
TX A/M 21, 3.2
Arkansas 7, 3.1
SC 8, 3.1
TCU 12, 3.1
Miami (FL) 16, 3.1
Michigan St 8, 3.0
Oregon St, 5, 3.0
Minnesota (46 spots below Oregon State) 8, 1.9

Top 25 programs already have an average of 10 players accepted and 3.4 star average.
I don't buy into the argument that Kill is doing this on purpose. I buy the argument that Kill is landing ill prepared talent for the level we need to succeed. These recruits will be seniors in 5 years. The problem is this leaves the team bereft of talent to succeed. If this team is going to turn around, we need to land 3.0 star athletes. He did last year, he should repeat that again this year. No excuse should be offered for lowering the bar from last year to this year. Why excuse the inexcusable.

Jerry Kill where are your competitive recruits? Why have you lowered the bar for athletes at the U of M? Why is the team lagging in quality recruits accepting our offers? Answer these questions now because on National Signing Day it will be too late.
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What are you talking about? The gophers class was ranked 9th in the big10 last year, and this year they are recruiting about the same so far. They will finish with a class in the bottom 3rd, expecting anything better is unreasonable. Mason was able to consistently field an upper tier big10 offense with players that weren't highly rated out of H.S., Kill or anyone else who wants to succeed in Minnesota will have to field an upper tier offense and a defense with lower rated h.s. talent. At least in the beginning. You simply can't get consistent top tier talent without wins.
 

Mustang Mountain Man said:
Why should any of us accept lower capable athletes this recruiting class than last year? There seems to be a lack of accountability or simple standards for recruiting players. Is all the talk a smoke screen or are we witnessing a catastrophic failure to hire the right person for the job? Why have so many succumbed to the belief that a long view of player development doesn't start from a higher standard recruit? Alice is this wonderland? Hello! Some of you called for Brewster's head and demanded accountability. Did you have accountable standards or did you just shelve them out of convenience?
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You realize most of last years class was put together by Kill right?
 

mountail: fantasy high school football recruiting rankings rankings at any time...

of the year are too stupid to pay any attention to period. But, they are especially stupid on June 24th when you are talking about "supposedly" the 71st ranked recruiting class in the nation. Are you for real?????? How stupid does this fantasy high school recruiting ranking crap get???????
Those fantasy high school recruitning ranking rankings are totally meaningless after the top 53 teams, especially on or around June 24h of ANY and EVERY year.

I have decided that Coach Kill is my BEST hope...my ONLY hope for improving this Golden Gopher Football Program...so do you think I will sit back and quietly watch as you talk crazy crap? No way mountain. No way. It is time for me to step up to the plate...let the chips fall where they may and state what I believe! I think Coach Kill is going to be just fine here at Minnesota. Prexy K is coming on board. Surely, he will eventually get around to throwing bjm under the bus and he will ditch him and bring his own AD on board. Life is going to be VERY good!

Coach Kill kicked the crap out of that brewster clown just last season on the road. Of course Coach Kill ranks HIGH above the less than ZERO stars fantasy coaches ranking that that brewster clown got from ME...and that was BEFORE he was fired mid-season. When that happened, he was no longer elegible to be ranked at all. Coach Kill ranks at LEAST a 3.5 star ranking in my scientific ranking system.

badger joel macturi ranks ZERO stars in my fantasy college athletic director ranking rankings too.

prexy b is NO LONGER elegible to be ranked in my fantasy college/university lame duck prexy rankings rankings.

Coach Kill is doing just fine mountain.

; 0 )
 

Mustang Mountain Man said:
Why should any of us accept lower capable athletes this recruiting class than last year? There seems to be a lack of accountability or simple standards for recruiting players. Is all the talk a smoke screen or are we witnessing a catastrophic failure to hire the right person for the job? Why have so many succumbed to the belief that a long view of player development doesn't start from a higher standard recruit? Alice is this wonderland? Hello! Some of you called for Brewster's head and demanded accountability. Did you have accountable standards or did you just shelve them out of convenience?
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You need to wait until all the players are evaluated. On Rivals, they start at zero which pulls the average down a mite.
 

harrys ghost said:
You need to wait until all the players are evaluated. On Rivals, they start at zero which pulls the average down a mite.
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Hey now, that's a pesky little fact. MMM can't let those get in the way of a monumental freakout.
 

Rosemountian said:
Do you guys honestly believe that the previous staff(s) never evaluated players before they offered them? They may have done it in a different style but don't make insinuations that make you sound like a fool such as suggesting that previous staffs only offered based on star rankings or other schools offering. Makes you sound like an idiot.
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Agree 100%. There was the article right after Kill was hired that explained how Kill's approach would be different than Brewster's as per the input of position coaches in the evaluation, but nowhere did that article say that Brewster and his recruiting team didn't evaluate coaches.

Lots of good discussion here. I think what Northwestern has done is instructive. Their recruiting doesn't knock the socks off the rest of the Big 10, but Fitzgerald gets solid kids, trains them in his systems, and then keeps them around so there's always a veteran presence on the team. Will they ever win the national championship? Probably not. Can they contend for the Big 10 championship now and then? Probably.

I am a bit surprised that Kill's troop has been scouring the entire country as aggressively as they have. It conflicts a bit with the 500-mile radius approach that he talked about right after he was hired.

I'm not worried about star-ratings right now. They are shorthand. Most of the 4- and 5-star guys were heralded as juniors so the services have some buzz about them. A lot of relative unknowns rise to 3-star status as the year wears on.

Kill has a strong idea of what type of coach he is and what he wants the team to look like. It is going to take a couple of years for the team to really be shipshape, so I'll be concentrating on watching how "smart" the team plays next fall first and foremost. I've seen enough "dumb" football, especially on defense, since Holtz left and the progress I'll be looking for initially with Kill is whether or not the team is prepared to succeed, not whether or not it will succeed immediately.

Great discussion.
 

50PoundHead

I just wanted to thank you for your post. It is objective, thoughtful, and offers an interesting perspective. I particularly like that is it balanced without any specific agenda. It also opens up the possibility for a conversation instead of a pissing match. Well done 50PoundHead!
 

Lets take a look at last year at this time shall we? Since you seem to think this year is going so much worse. First commit was James Farrow, hmmm, how'd that turn out? Hopefully McDonald doesn't end up being the same story. Then Brewster added a juco lb named Raymond Cottman to the 2010 class, has anyone heard anything about him since? Anyhow...back to the 2011 class, 2nd commit was Jephete Matilus, good looking prospect, similar offer list as Dinero Moss (both had a nebraska offer). Brendan Beal transfers in, pretty big get, but I don't know how much "recruiting" had to be done to get him here. Next up Bauducco and Sam Rohr commit....Rohr decommits to go to northern iowa. Then on the 24th of June Leston Simpson commits from the heralded Lackawanna pipeline.

So at this time last year Brew had 5 commits, 2 of which never signed with the gophers. But then Brew landed Sam Oyenuga...who never signed. Then Matt LaCosse...who I wish had signed, but didn't. Then he landed the McAvoy twins and Crawford Tufts. Then Marquise Vann who I was excited about but he eventually left to sign with UCONN. Then Westerhaus and Mike Moore...Moore didnt sign with us. Russell haughton james...didnt sign with us. So this was like through September. That's 7 guys that ended up signing with the gophers.
 

btowngopher said:
Lets take a look at last year at this time shall we? Since you seem to think this year is going so much worse. First commit was James Farrow, hmmm, how'd that turn out? Hopefully McDonald doesn't end up being the same story. Then Brewster added a juco lb named Raymond Cottman to the 2010 class, has anyone heard anything about him since? Anyhow...back to the 2011 class, 2nd commit was Jephete Matilus, good looking prospect, similar offer list as Dinero Moss (both had a nebraska offer). Brendan Beal transfers in, pretty big get, but I don't know how much "recruiting" had to be done to get him here. Next up Bauducco and Sam Rohr commit....Rohr decommits to go to northern iowa. Then on the 24th of June Leston Simpson commits from the heralded Lackawanna pipeline.

So at this time last year Brew had 5 commits, 2 of which never signed with the gophers. But then Brew landed Sam Oyenuga...who never signed. Then Matt LaCosse...who I wish had signed, but didn't. Then he landed the McAvoy twins and Crawford Tufts. Then Marquise Vann who I was excited about but he eventually left to sign with UCONN. Then Westerhaus and Mike Moore...Moore didnt sign with us. Russell haughton james...didnt sign with us. So this was like through September. That's 7 guys that endprospectsed up signing with the gophers.
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Thanks for revisiting the Brewster's recruiting results at this time last year...it definitely helps put Kill's currrent verbal list in better perspective. Since I don't follow recruiting closely as others here do, I wasn't aware that so many fell off the wagon before signing day.

With Kill's stated "character/potential" approach to recruiting for his system, I wonder if these verbals now mean more stability for these commitments versus Brew's unfavorable experience with many of his prospects.

Kill has already had one apparently firm commitment (McDonald) turn from "hard" to "soft" whatever that means in recruit-talk.

Will Kill avoid the problems that Brewster encountered because he's taking a different approach or as in the past, are we likely to see more commitment upsets as the year wears on?
 

NewEngland_Gold said:
Thanks for revisiting the Brewster's recruiting results at this time last year...it definitely helps put Kill's currrent verbal list in better perspective. Since I don't follow recruiting closely as others here do, I wasn't aware that so many fell off the wagon before signing day.

With Kill's stated "character/potential" approach to recruiting for his system, I wonder if these verbals now mean more stability for these commitments versus Brew's unfavorable experience with many of his prospects.

Kill has already had one apparently firm commitment (McDonald) turn from "hard" to "soft" whatever that means in recruit-talk.

Will Kill avoid the problems that Brewster encountered because he's taking a different approach or as in the past, are we likely to see more commitment upsets as the year wears on?
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Of course some of the defects were due to the coaching change, and I'm not really one to bash Brewster, but just trying to point out that recruiting is going just as good or better then last year thus far.
 

btowngopher said:
Of course some of the defects were due to the coaching change, and I'm not really one to bash Brewster, but just trying to point out that recruiting is going just as good or better then last year thus far.
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It is still very early in the recruiting cycle for the year. However, I would hope when signing days comes that Kill's class exceeds the class from last year. A new coach generally gets a pretty decent bump their first year or two at a new job. As a result of this I would be disappointed on signing day if Kill's class didn't surpass that final class of Brewster's, when recruits and fans all knew he was on the hot seat and in need of a successful season to retain his job. If the excitement of a new coach cannot attract more of a recruits interest than a coach likely or highly at atleast at risk of losing his job, it would be concerning.
 

As Kill's list of verbals continues to grow...

in terms of recruit service evaluations, the recruiting-gap becomes more apparent versus our B1G competitors.

Although Brewster temporarily moved Minnesota up the recruiting chain, it seems the program's current recruiting results...again in terms of stars...are generally consistent with the Gopher's past 40 year B1G history.

Countering this obvious concern, Minnesota now has arguably the most competent, deepest and successful intact coaching staff it has been able to attract in the last 40 years with a record of developing talent and winning consistently at every stop.

WI and IA rebuilt starting with solid coaching, not an emphasis on stars.

Looks like that's the same formula at work in Minneapolis.

Kill's verballing kids who the coaches believe will enable them to repeat the same type of winning success they have had at NIU/SIU, with the full understanding that the D1 B1G is a much bigger stage, every scholarship is very important and they don't have much margin for recruiting disappointments or mistakes.
 

Can't help but be reminded of Bo Ryan when I see Kill's approach so far. These guys have a number of parallels: both were long-time succesfull coaches at lower levels, and neither were flashy high profile always looking for a better job types. Bottom line is they have both been very stable and seem to have clear idea of what they are looking for in a recruit and what it takes to win. Bo Ryan much as I hate to say it is an excellent coach who doesn't seem to be interested in recruiting the 4-star guys and wins anyway. He also was no-name hire (except in the state of Wisconsin) and is able to develop his players over a period of years and with his system compete at the highest levels. My feeling about Kill is that he will be defensively focused which will be the strength of his teams, bascially shutting down the other team and scoring just enough to win.
 

Bust my chops

I am not having a freakout. Just stating an opinion as to the quality of recruits. As for Rivals, I didn't use Rivals. As for other ranking services, every player on the list, but maybe 6 didn't have stars. Of those 6, well, you can guess where some of them are. As for evaluations, hey, the 4 star guys are evaluated. You don't think the 2 star guys weren't evaluated? Who is in fantasy land? As for how this correlates to success, I think MV had a fine article on that not too long back. Or was it the other guy? Either way, stars and draft success positively correlated.

Back to the question of June vs. NSD. If we have 17 total available scholies (just to use the lingua franca of GH), when we are half way through, and the best we can do is a soft verbal from the only 4 star athlete yet to suggest he is committed, well, you have to question how the other half is going to move. The only indicators out there are pathetic. Frankly, it is undeniably pathetic. Only those who have a vested agenda in Kill are saying things are okay when they are clearly not.
 

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