Focusing in on Kill's B1G recruiting style

Donate To GopherHole
N

NewEngland_Gold

Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
616
Reaction score
0
Points
16
After six months at the helm, JK's B1G recruiting style is now coming into sharper focus for those following GH threads on various aspects of the subject.

Rather than aggressively going after higher-tier stars, Kill & Co seem to be seeking character/potential athletes that can be coached-up/developed into successful B1G players. Some of this has involved head-scratching and heated debate on this forum since many of these athletes do not seem to be followed closely by the rating services.

Kill seems to have a nose for uncovering relatively unknown prospects with strong potential, probably due to his very deep contacts given over twenty-five years in the business.

In any case, GH opinions about JK's GG recruiting strategy have ranged from "great", he did the same thing at NIU/SIU and it worked...to let it all play out and let's see where we are by 2014...to we'll be B1G dead meat in 2014 if this doesn't work.

As a distant fan, I don't follow recruiting like others here and I have no idea if Kill's approach will lead Gopher fb out of the wilderness and eventually into competing for a championship. So I'm curious what other GHers think about Kill's recruiting strategy and what level of success they believe he will achieve using this character/potential approach to team-building.

Will this style eventually lead to a championship game or at some point will he need to bring in higher-tier stars to compete at the highest level?
 

Who cares if some entertainment site (rivals, etc.) doesn't rank Kill's recruits? The only thing that really matters is how many Big Ten games Kill and his recruits win.

If someone tells me that Kill's "MAC type" recruits will not be drafted by the NFL, will not be high "star ranked" recruits, will not contribute right away but will contribute their junior/senior years, will be solid academically and not get into legal/school trouble, will be committed/loyal to the school/local community (regardless where they're from) and, most importantly, will win 5-6 Big Ten games a year - I tell that person: "where do I friggin sign up!?" Give me the dang pen!!
 

Coach Kill is sticking to what has worked for him in the past. A good coach/system can be successful drawing in the type of players that best fit the system. Look at TCU, Boise State, Utah, Navy etc. who get the leftovers compared to all the stars that end up at Notre Dame, Miami, recently Michigan, etc. Players who fit a system rather than those with a bunch of press clippings and superior talent. Plus his NIU/MAC team had a 2-3 record against BT opponents which reassured me that the man knows what his is doing.

Nebraska under Osborn built a great program that developed its players. I think Ferentz and Alvarez did the same.

I went for Coach Kill after I realized the big name coaches would snug a UM offer. Nothing I have seen thus far has changed my perspective on Coach Kill. I think he is exactly what we need at the UM.
 

NewEngland_Gold said:
After six months at the helm, JK's B1G recruiting style is now coming into sharper focus for those following GH threads on various aspects of the subject.

Rather than aggressively going after higher-tier stars, Kill & Co seem to be seeking character/potential athletes that can be coached-up/developed into successful B1G players.
Click to expand...

Not totally sure about this. Agree that it appears that they are looking at high character/potential players. But, take the recruiting services for what they are worth, Scout has us with offers out to 3 - 5*s and 16 - 4*s (including the #1 ranked DE; 6,10 ranked RBs; 7, 8, 17, 20, 21 ranked DTs, etc.). Heck Rivals even has us with offers out to 7 - 4* Running Backs alone. How aggressively they are recruiting any one of those players only Kill & staff and the player/player's family probably knows for sure. Maybe Kill is trying to get some in-roads for future recruiting by developing relationships with high profile programs as well. It still remains to be seen who he is able to sign and what his style will be.
 

I think that Coach Kill is going to mold his student athletes into a...

team. That will be a real pleasure to watch as it happens. He has a tough job and the kids coming in for this recruiting class have got a lot to learn about playing football for Coach Kill and his staff, being students at the University of Minnesota and learning to balance football, academics, a social life and growing up.

I have a hunch that it is going to be a pleasure watching all these kids, the coaching staff and Coach Kill going to work! I don't think I have unrealistic expectations, but I do hope for some good things to happen for these kids, the coaches and the University of Minnesota Football Program.

I'll let the coaches and the players set their own goals. I am hoping for the Gophers that they can become very competetive within the Big Ten Conference and once in a while have a bit of luck and magic.

I like a good, honest effort, progress and doing all the little things right. Some discipline on the football field can be a difference maker.

I also welcome Prexy K on board. I think it is a good omen that the new Prexy and the new Football Coach are going to be on Campus this fall for both of their first Gopher Games as Prexy of the U and as Head Coach of the U of M Football Program. Best wishes to both of them!

I think it is going to be fun to be a Gopher Football Fan again...

; 0 )
 


It's the nature of people to want to feel good about whatever is going on with the future of their team. Kill did not bring in guys with very good offers after getting hired to complete the 2011 class and, so far, his 2012 class has received commitments from mostly "under the radar" kids. So those that want to believe in Kill start using buzzwords like "character" or the dreaded buzz phrase of "coach 'em up" to get excited about recruiting. It's frustrating to see people try to attach qualities to kids that they cannot know they have (character, hard worker,etc) while insinuating that higher rated recruits lack these qualities. I find it dubious to argue that it is a recruiting "style" to take a bunch of kids who don't have other BCS offers.

I liked Kill's points about recruiting speed, and I hope he does it. It's still early in his first real year on the recruiting trail and some of the kids who have committed could easily be the real deal. That said, their has not been any concrete evidence to this point that Kill will not drag us back down to the bottom of the conference recruiting. It's the biggest question with the coach given his experience: can he identify and land BIG TEN talent? When Brewster was fired we needed to find a better X's and O's guy, but if we found a better X's and O's guy who is an inferior recruiter, we will remain in similar position.
 

The New Wren

imthewalrus said:
team. That will be a real pleasure to watch as it happens. He has a tough job and the kids coming in for this recruiting class have got a lot to learn about playing football for Coach Kill and his staff, being students at the University of Minnesota and learning to balance football, academics, a social life and growing up.

I have a hunch that it is going to be a pleasure watching all these kids, the coaching staff and Coach Kill going to work! I don't think I have unrealistic expectations, but I do hope for some good things to happen for these kids, the coaches and the University of Minnesota Football Program.

I'll let the coaches and the players set their own goals. I am hoping for the Gophers that they can become very competetive within the Big Ten Conference and once in a while have a bit of luck and magic.
I like a good, honest effort, progress and doing all the little things right. Some discipline on the football field can be a difference maker.

I also welcome Prexy K on board. I think it is a good omen that the new Prexy and the new Football Coach are going to be on Campus this fall for both of their first Gopher Games as Prexy of the U and as Head Coach of the U of M Football Program. Best wishes to both of them!I think it is going to be fun to be a Gopher Football Fan again...; 0 )
Click to expand...

I like it - No demands!, No fire Prexy K!, "It is going to be fun to be a Gopher Football Fan"! Just a month or so ago you were warning people not to crown Coach Kill. That Okay, It is hard not to like the guy and yes, I know your are not crowning him. What I like best is that you stated that coach Kill has a hard job ahead of him that we need to give him some time.
 

All I know is he has always won, which in my lifetime the gophers have not.

I am putting my faith into him and his staffs' recruiting strengths being that they find players that fit their system and one's that they think are overall athletes that can put pressure on the other team on both sides of the ball. I like going to the Sun Bowl or Micronpc.com bowl, but its about time we did something meaningful.

It will take time, passion, respect, intelligence, and hard work for us to get this program turned around and it seems this staff does/has all of those. I'm not saying he will for sure get us to the Rose Bowl but I see no reason why we can't support Coach Kill and his staff in their decisions. I trust these recruits are better players than the websites think and I am willing to give coach and his staff the chance because why not?

Maybe the team concept is the secret recipe. We are part of the team so lets do our part as fans and support the players and coaches. By having a rowdy and dedicated stadium alone it will bring us a few of those higher-rated recruits some people covet. Winning will take care of the rest. If a few years down the road it isn't working, we can go another direction. But hell, nothings worked the last 20-some years so lets give this a chance.
 

eg#9: We will get total report cards on Coach Kill and EVERYTHING he does when we start playing Big Ten games. The number of Big Ten wins vs Big Ten losses will tell us week to week, month to month and year to year just exactly how Coach Kill is doing compared to all of the other Big Ten Coaches currently coaching.

We will also be able to go back through the history of Golden Gopher Coaches and will be able to compare Coach Kill's Big Ten record to the Big Ten record of the first year of each coach: Bierman, Fesler, Warmath, Stoll, Salem, lou hoax, Gutey, Wacker, Mason and brewster.

If Coach Kill wins one Big Ten game in his first season, he will be ahead of brewster, tied with Mason, etc.

All this recruiting stuff will take four or five years. Big Ten Coaches in the year 2011 do NOT have time to "get all their own players in..." The clock starts ticking for them in year #1. Why do I use only Big Ten results? By doing that, I am comparing apples to apples. The Big Ten is the Big Ten. Some years are tougher in the Big Ten than other years, but, by limiting the comparisons to Big Ten games only, there is a basis for determining just exactly how well a Big Ten Coach is doing against his peers in the Big Ten and against all the former coaches at Minnesota. That is the important statistic here: how well will Coach Kill be doing in Big Ten Play compared to the other former Golden Gopher Coaches in their first season in the Big Ten at Minnesota?

You can tell me that brewster did a better job recruiting...but, it sure as hell didn't look like it in the Big Ten games I saw him coaching. The guy only came up with 6 Big Ten wins in 3 1/2 Big Ten Seasons. You can't tell me he was recruiting very well.

So, Big Ten wins vs. Big Ten losses will tell us the ONLY things that we need to know about all of the coaching/recruiting elements that will determine Coach Kill's future at the University of Minnesota.

Your recruiting emphasis can only hold water IF it is backed up with a significant increase in Big Ten wins. IF recruiting results plus coaching does not produce increased Big Ten wins either one side of the equation...or both sides of the equation would be full of holes, hot air and total subjectivity.

Only Big Ten wins minus Big Ten losses can tell us the truth. Obviously, as the years go by, and the number of Big Ten games coached increases, we will know better how the coach is doing compared to the history of Big Ten coaching standards at the U of M.

Minnesota first year coaches Big Ten wins:

brewster 0
Mason 1
Wacker 2
Gutey 5
hoax 3
Salem 3
Stoll 4
Warmath 4
Fesler 1
Bierman 2

That is the range of Big Ten wins for first year Gopher Coaches going all the way back to 1932.
Let's see how Coach Kill will do in Big Ten Play in his first season at the University of Minnesota. The past 10 coaches (over an almost 80 year period) have won a total of 25 Big Ten games in their FIRST season coaching at Minnesota. All were asked to win as many games as they could with what they had to work with. The average would work out to 2.5 Big Ten wins in their first season. If Coach Kill can manage 3 Big Ten wins his first season, he would have had an historically pretty average first season for a Golden Gopher Football Coach.

I don't know if he will get that many Big Ten wins his first season or not. That is why they play the games. But, good luck Coach Kill!
 




CrocShots said:
HE HASN'T COACHED A GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

I like what the coaches are doing. They go after kids they think can play when they see them based on their own evaluation as a staff, not after they have three stars and four other schools are going after them. False hope based on false rankings will not be remembered very fondly.
TB thought getting a highly rated class, even if it was filled with over rated players, would create recruiting momentum. It might have worked if we had won on the field, but Decker's late season injuries pretty much ended that possibility. Over-rated recrupiting classes, which is what we mostly got with TB, don't really make the fan base feel better in the long run when Wisconsin and Iowa are running the ball down your throat in the fourth quarter. Get kids that can play our system with development, when (or "if" for the skeptics in the crowd) we win real games against good Big Ten teams, the recruiting class rankings will not be remembered.
Coach Kill believes in something I have long advocated, "if you are going to take a chance on failing, then take a chance on failing your own way". No one remembers you tried to do it the way they suggested when it doesn't work.
 

imthewalrus said:
eg#9: We will get total report cards on Coach Kill and EVERYTHING he does when we start playing Big Ten games. The number of Big Ten wins vs Big Ten losses will tell us week to week, month to month and year to year just exactly how Coach Kill is doing compared to all of the other Big Ten Coaches currently coaching.

We will also be able to go back through the history of Golden Gopher Coaches and will be able to compare Coach Kill's Big Ten record to the Big Ten record of the first year of each coach: Bierman, Fessler, Warmath, Stoll, Salem, lou hoax, Gutey, Wacker, Mason and brewster.

If Coach Kill wins one Big Ten game in his first season, he will be ahead of brewster, tied with Mason, etc.

All this recruiting stuff will take four or five years. Big Ten Coaches in the year 2011 do NOT have time to "get all their own players in..." The clock starts ticking for them in year #1. Why do I use only Big Ten results? By doing that, I am comparing apples to apples. The Big Ten is the Big Ten. Some years are tougher in the Big Ten than other years, but, by limiting the comparisons to Big Ten games only, there is a basis for determining just exactly how well a Big Ten Coach is doing against his peers in the Big Ten and against all the former coaches at Minnesota. That is the important statistic here: how well will Coach Kill be doing in Big Ten Play compared to the other former Golden Gopher Coaches in their first season in the Big Ten at Minnesota?

You can tell me that brewster did a better job recruiting...but, it sure as hell didn't look like it in the Big Ten games I saw him coaching. The guy only came up with 6 Big Ten wins in 3 1/2 Big Ten Seasons. You can't tell me he was recruiting very well.

So, Big Ten wins vs. Big Ten losses will tell us the ONLY things that we need to know about all of the coaching/recruiting elements that will determine Coach Kill's future at the University of Minnesota.

Your recruiting emphasis can only hold water IF it is backed up with a significant increase in Big Ten wins. IF recruiting results plus coaching does not produce increased Big Ten wins either one side of the equation...or both sides of the equation would be full of holes, hot air and total subjectivity.

Only Big Ten wins minus Big Ten losses can tell us the truth.
Click to expand...

I hope I will not regret engaging you here, but I have never stated that Brewster was a success on the field. I only have stated that Brewster's second and third years (by your big ten wins standard, which I agree with) were very similar to what we had seen from the prior coach who you hold in high regard. Yet, for some reason, the heat was on Brewster to accomplish more than that going in to year 4. I LIKED THAT. I like that someone was finally saying 3-5 and losing records against rival schools was UNACCEPTABLE. Brewster came in to year 4, changed his offense (again), and ended up being fired midway through the season.

It's not "my" recruiting emphasis, it's statistical analysis that shows higher regarded recruits win more games and end up in the NFL than lower regarded recruits do. I don't want to go back to landing 1 or 2 of the top 5 kids in Minnesota and seeing a bunch of kids signed who hold offers from Minnesota and half the MAC conference. I think it's been proven, by your big ten w's and l's theory, that this formula does not work. I am not saying that is where Coach Kill is headed, just that it is my fear with him as a coach. I expect this program to win more than half its games against Iowa and Wisconsin and make this new Big Ten title game a minimum of once a decade. I hope Kill is the man for the job.
 

Do you guys honestly believe that the previous staff(s) never evaluated players before they offered them? They may have done it in a different style but don't make insinuations that make you sound like a fool such as suggesting that previous staffs only offered based on star rankings or other schools offering. Makes you sound like an idiot.
 



Character guys are important because they tend to bring teams to the promise land. Ask any scout and they will tell you most kids with off the field problems and problems at home don't seem to have the ability to be a leader and win championships. Scouts say if the kid has parents who are married and a father in their lives are usually the best bet to be mvp and win NFL, NBA, etc championships. They are gold.
 

Obviously, Eg #9, the first year will only give us a little "peak" at our new coach and comparing first year Big Ten records to first year Big Ten records of former Gopher Coaches is not very meaningful. However, I think that it is obvious that one key to having that fourth season be not quite such a "pressure point" would be finding a way to beg, borrow or steal at least ONE Big Ten win in season number one. With zero BT wins in season number one, it is almost impossible to survive at the University of Minnesota. At a school in which Big Ten wins have been SO hard to come by, the odds of surviving if you have a season in which you win zero Big Ten games unfortunately appears to be almost nil. In his 4th season, brewster was on his way to a possible 2nd 0 Big Ten win season. That was not allowed to happen. The only other coaches during that almost 80 year period to win zero Big Ten games in a season were Smokey Joe and Gutey. At a school that struggles winning Big Ten games, there is no sin much worse than failing to win a Big Ten Game in a Big Ten Season. brewster also went 0-9 in trophy games...with 6 of those losses coming at the hands of iowa and wisky. You have to beat the border states once in a while...the more often the better...but...at LEAST once in a while.

I guess that is what I will look for during Coach Kill's first Big Ten Season. Getting at least one Big Ten win will give him a good chance of having a fifth Big Ten season, I would think. 2 or 3 Big Ten wins in year one would almost insure that. I know that a single Big Ten win doesn't sound like much...but...it is HUGE, I believe. Being able to have a fifth season could be a huge factor in assembling a "program..." based upon a recruiting strategy such as may be employed by Coach Kill and his staff...or even a "fantasy star recruiting strategy as was attempted by brewster. Mason & his staff recruited well enough and coached well enough to turn out a lot of All-American players and All-Big Ten players, mostly on the offensive side of the ball. They never had zero Big Ten wins and they lasted 10 seasons. The key, as someone else mentioned earlier in one of thses threads woulb be in keeping players around for four or five seasons, regardless of their specific recruiting "fantasy" rating. You win with juniors and seniors.

The key is to find a way to beg, borrow or steal a Big Ten win or two in season number one at the University of Minnesota. At least, thats' the way it looks to me...

; 0 )
 

imthewalrus said:
I guess that is what I will look for during Coach Kill's first Big Ten Season. Getting at least one Big Ten win will give him a good chance of having a fifth Big Ten season, I would think. 2 or 3 Big Ten wins in year one would almost insure that. I know that a single Big Ten win doesn't sound like much...but...it is HUGE, I believe. Being able to have a fifth season could be a huge factor in assembling a "program..." based upon a recruiting strategy such as may be employed by Coach Kill and his staff...or even a "fantasy star recruiting strategy as was attempted by brewster. Mason & his staff recruited well enough and coached well enough to turn out a lot of All-American players and All-Big Ten players, mostly on the offensive side of the ball. They never had zero Big Ten wins and they lasted 10 seasons. The key, as someone else mentioned earlier in one of thses threads woulb be in keeping players around for four or five seasons, regardless of their specific recruiting "fantasy" rating. You win with juniors and seniors.

The key is to find a way to beg, borrow or steal a Big Ten win or two in season number one at the University of Minnesota. At least, thats' the way it looks to me...

; 0 )
Click to expand...

Although Kill has said many times to any who will listen that he doesn't make promises or predictions in terms of wins and losses, getting at least one B1G win in his first year at Minnesota should be extremely high priority on his personal to do list.

Obviously, enduring a B1G 0-fer in his first year would not be helpful to future recruiting or any other aspect of his program.
 

To me it kind of seems that if Kill thinks a guy can play he will offer him, no slow playing. Someone might be able to argue a guy like Isaac Fruechte could be secured much later in the recruiting process allowing Kill to pursue guys higher on his board, but then again I obviously can't see Kills recruiting board and maybe Fruechte was quite high on it. I'm not going to get worry about kids not having many offers in June. Keep in mind that these recruiting sites get their information from the kids themselves, so once a kid does verbal I don't think he is going to bother updating his offer list on rivals.
 

So far, Kill has uncovered gems (IMO) in guys like Cobb, Foreman, Jones, Montgomery, Moulton, Thompson, and Hawthorne. Also, he "re-discovered" Campion, who will be a beast. Players like this have incredible upsides and will make impacts on the field. That excites me the most.
 

highwayman said:
So far, Kill has uncovered gems (IMO) in guys like Cobb, Foreman, Jones, Montgomery, Moulton, Thompson, and Hawthorne. Also, he "re-discovered" Campion, who will be a beast. Players like this have incredible upsides and will make impacts on the field. That excites me the most.
Click to expand...

Montgomery doesn't really belong in that list: http://rivals.yahoo.com/minnesota/football/recruiting/player-Steven-Montgomery-94826;_ylt=AvrAEbebDR4c8BhTB_vA3AjPspB4

Plus, he was originally offered by Brewster and company.
 

Anyone thinking that 4 star players (other than maybe local players) are going to commit to Minnesota and a new staff before the season has even started needs a reality check. The types of athletes Kill is going to get to join up now are the under the radar prospects he has seen on film or in camp and sees a fit. Getting on these players early before others can evaluate them is the strategy you should expect to see in June. Most players that hold multiple high level BCS offers other including from the Gophers, are just not going to commit this early. This is not a function of Kill (and staff's) recruiting abilities, but is plain reality.
 

harrys ghost said:
Montgomery doesn't really belong in that list: http://rivals.yahoo.com/minnesota/football/recruiting/player-Steven-Montgomery-94826;_ylt=AvrAEbebDR4c8BhTB_vA3AjPspB4

Plus, he was originally offered by Brewster and company.
Click to expand...

You are correct, he didn't uncover him. I remember I figured he was not going to come here after Brewster was fired. Kill made a personal visit and got him to commit over Illinois, Kansas, Maryland, North Carolina, West Virginia, and Wisconsin. In February, this was the "biggest win" for me for this class.

Only time will tell, but I think the guys I mentioned in this class will make some great impacts...
 

Kill's already said he hopes to recruit like Patterson at TCU.
Check out the progression of TCU's recruiting classes from 06(RSSr's last year, Srs 2 years ago)to now
06
8 3 stars 2 5.7s highest rank
8 2 stars
2 JUCOs
Best competing offer Kansas, KSU, ISU, alot of UTEP/TCU only(UTEP vs Western Michigan)

07
1 4 star
11 3 stars 1 5.7, 1 5.6
11 2 stars

08
8 3 stars all 5.6 or lower
10 2 stars

09
4 4 stars
12 3 stars
3 2 stars
1 unranked

10
2 4 stars
16 3 stars

11(After BCS game)
2 4 stars
23 3 stars

12(after Rose Bowl W) so far
4 4 stars
7 3 stars
3 unranked so far
Outrecruiting Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma St for kids in Texas

Patterson won with under recruited types including a Rose Bowl W against wisky.
Alot of speed/developmental types/position switching, he fit them into his systems.
BUT he built on Fanchione's program and started a winning reputation, if Kill can win, the recruits will come.
 

The TCU comparison is certainly an instructive one, given the friendship between Kill and Patterson, as well as their common cultural heritage. It is important to remember two things, however:

1. In any given year, the very best opponent on TCU's schedule is the kind of team that the U will play 4-5 teams in an average year. If you accept the premise that, in most years, TCU would be a 4- or 5-win (in-conference) team if they were in the Big Ten (with their current recruiting, that is), we cannot emulate them and hope to win Rose Bowls. We can get to a 3rd- or 4th-place Big Ten team with that style, but we will eventually need to do better.

2. Their 2012 recruiting class can be partially attributed to the Rose Bowl win, and partially attributed to them moving to a BCS conference. They likely would have received a recruiting bump anyway given that most players would rather play for a BCS team than not if given the opportunity to do so for free.
 

As for the main thrust of the thread, Kill's recruiting is just fine. Again, we must remember two things:

1. Kill did pretty well against Big Ten competition both as a I-AA coach and as a MAC coach. This is with the inherent limitations of recruiting to lower-level schools. Aside from all the other positive benefits he brings to the table, Kill already has a great deal of experience (and success) against Big Ten teams, something we haven't been able to say about any incoming Gopher head coach since, well...probably ever.

2. Kill would have had been thrilled with getting commits from these types of recruits to Northern Illinois, especially in June. The typical Kill summer commit at NIU was a 2-star with no other offers. The very best summer commit was Mike Hellams, a 3-star #32 ILB with offers from Colorado St. and Wyoming. Kill took a roster full of these types of players and had them within a fluke play of a MAC championship within 3 short years. If we have a commit list full of 3-stars with no other BCS offers on 2012 signing day, it might be time to start pushing the panic button. But, then again - it might not. Kill has built an entire coaching career on outperforming perceived expectation levels.
 

Seniorsmoke said:
Anyone thinking that 4 star players (other than maybe local players) are going to commit to Minnesota and a new staff before the season has even started needs a reality check. The types of athletes Kill is going to get to join up now are the under the radar prospects he has seen on film or in camp and sees a fit. Getting on these players early before others can evaluate them is the strategy you should expect to see in June. Most players that hold multiple high level BCS offers other including from the Gophers, are just not going to commit this early. This is not a function of Kill (and staff's) recruiting abilities, but is plain reality.
Click to expand...

Best Reply on this thread-

There is no reason for a 4* recruit to commit here in June, but we would all welcome it. Let's temper our "Beating Western Mich" remarks. Kill and Co are on the right path and let's see how this strategy plays out on the field in a few months and a few seasons.
 

THE Chitown Gopher said:
Kill and Co are on the right path and let's see how this strategy plays out on the field in a few months and a few seasons.
Click to expand...

So far I am totally drinking the Kill-aide. But this is just as absurd as the freak outs over Kill's recruiting. Right now Kill is on a path, presumably the one he wants to be on. Is it the right one or the wrong one? No one here has any clue. The "see how the strategy plays out" is all we can do right now (which is understandably super annoying for fans like us who are very interested/invested in supporting our teams).
 

I am going to do a post mortem after this season as to why we failed to deliver a top 50 recruiting class.

I'll give you a preview:

Coach Kill always intended to recruit highly ranked players as is evidenced by the offer sheet we already know about. Most, if not all of them come from good families, have a stronger work ethic than the lower ranked players and graduate at similar rates to the U athletes in general. We are losing out for one reason and one reason alone -- salesmanship. They did not have to sell at SIU because they could develop the players into something that would win at that level. They did the same at NIU but it became harder to defeat better talented teams and he won only ~50% of those games. We will NEVER enter the top tier without top talent. 4 years is an insufficient time frame to develop top talent for a run at a championship -- any championship that Minnesota competes for. If you take lower level talent and really get it to a championship caliber in 4 years you have two disastrous realities to overcome. One, half of the team will always be in development at any given year. Two, academic training will get sacrificed for the time sacrifice of athletics. It is very difficult to be a champion at two things simultaneously without major sacrifices. These are undeniable truths.

Kill is losing the war for 4 star athletes now and other schools are already loading up on them. Relationship selling is great if you have 10 years to do it and build a rapport with hundreds of high schools. But, we don't have the recruiting time or manpower to sustain those. 25 years in the business suggests to me major turnover of staffing at high schools and new relationships to build and by God every college coach of the DI level has established similar relationships, and sometimes with the same coaches as Jerry Kill. These relationships are only good for information and not closing the sale. The only benefit of relationship management is information, which will most likely get shared with any interested coach, and not just those with the best relationships. A good coaching relationship is good to have but not a necessary component of good recruiting.

The other approach, cold calling, is in general the opening of relationship management and that can land you just as many prospects and signees as not having an existing relationship. In that light, any 4 or 5 star athlete should almost automatically get targeted and the battle joined for their heart and soul. Jerry Kill and staff need to overcome objections by targeted athletes like any solid salesman knows how to do. This takes substantial preparation and must be executed flawlessly by the recruiter. Right now, there is zero evidence that there is this preparation to recruit because we are landing a disproportionately minor share of these athletes. Offers have been made and no movement has occurred.

I would be happier to learn that the coaching staff went to a short course at the Wharton School for sales development than another round of chit chatting it up with Patterson or Peterson. We are losing recruits because Jerry's natural style does not work with 75% of athletes. It fits the 1/4 that share his style. Jerry needs to understand who that student is within 30 seconds of the first conversation or the battle is lost. From what I have heard of Jerry Kill, he is unwilling to actually change his style to meet his audience. By speaking the same message to every single audience the same message with the same lines, suggests a lack of ground work and preparation. Red Wing has a different culture than does Owatonna than does Minneapolis. Kill needs an assistant who understands selling and marketing and the psychology of good selling. His guy from NIU may be a great guy, but he has targeted the same pony with the same problems as at NIU. We are a different U with greater selling points than NIU and the message isn't generating any more interest than the "great recruiter" who didn't out recruit anybody.

We can already see that many recruits enjoyed talking with him, but never connected to committing to the U. Successful sales people get most of their sales on the first visit and not later visits, unless the client is risk averse and needs greater time to make up their mind. The first thing to identify in the first 30 seconds is the student athlete the decision maker. What style of decision making does he prefer? Am I mirroring his style? What is his real need in this decision? There are statements and questions that can get this information quickly and easily.

The current benchmark is this years Michigan team recruiting. 3 and 4 stars across the board and a superior number to ours. 4 years from now, Michigan will have a stronger team than Minnesota. They are doing something better than our coaches right now and there is real evidence in the quality of the recruits.

The indicators of our failure are there right now. February we might look better, but then so will all the other also rans in the B1G. The failure to recognize this is why we fail year-over-year.

A strategy used at NIU was coaching clinics and offers at coaching clinics. We have had a clinic and no recruit has stepped forward to sign. Well, that again is proof that the selling job is less successful than it should be. Those willing to wait for February for success are only asking us to believe that the best sign last. I will restate that for you here. The last available sign last. We are losing the war and people are apologizing for its apparent lack of success.
 

The current benchmark is this years Michigan team recruiting. 3 and 4 stars across the board and a superior number to ours. 4 years from now, Michigan will have a stronger team than Minnesota. They are doing something better than our coaches right now and there is real evidence in the quality of the recruits

Just so I am clear, are you stating that if the Gophers hired Brady Hoke we'd have 3 and 4 stars across the board commited? In other words are you suggesting the two schools do not recruit themselves seperately?
 

Oneoldgopher said:
The current benchmark is this years Michigan team recruiting. 3 and 4 stars across the board and a superior number to ours. 4 years from now, Michigan will have a stronger team than Minnesota.
Click to expand...

You are so clueless. Among the litany of half-truths and blatant falsehoods contained within your post, this one literally made me laugh out loud. Michigan's recruiting this year is no better than what Michigan does on average. They were getting the same type of recruits and the same level of recruiting ranking 4-5 years ago. So why does their team suck so much right now? Why did they just fire their coach? If they actually played up to their recruiting level, they'd be a top 15 team every year. Why aren't they?
 

dpodoll68 said:
You are so clueless. Among the litany of half-truths and blatant falsehoods contained within your post, this one literally made me laugh out loud. Michigan's recruiting this year is no better than what Michigan does on average. They were getting the same type of recruits and the same level of recruiting ranking 4-5 years ago. So why does their team suck so much right now? Why did they just fire their coach? If they actually played up to their recruiting level, they'd be a top 15 team every year. Why aren't they?
Click to expand...

"Air" high-five
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom