Fire Ben Johnson

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upnorthkid said:
With the following left
vs PSU (quad 3)
vs NW (quad 2)
at Neb (quad 1)
vs WI (quad 1)
at Rutgers (quad 2)

would certainly be interesting. Have some nice road wins (IA, USC, UCLA) and a good clutch of quad 1s. Think 4-1 puts them in play but then would definitely need multiple BTT wins to get that win total to at least 20. curious to see what @SelectionSunday thinks given the win tracker has dropped off a bit (understandably so)
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While our best wins are better, it's reminiscent of the Nebraska team that went like 13-5 in conference and didn't make it.
 


Blizzard said:
With every win I think Johnson should be given another year. Talk me off the ledge.
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Unless the Gophers make a miraculous run to finish the season and I don’t mean just making the B1G Tourney there is absolutely no way anyone could convince me Johnson should be given another year.
 

howeda7 said:
While our best wins are better, it's reminiscent of the Nebraska team that went like 13-5 in conference and didn't make it.
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Tony tweeted today about how disastrous the non-conference strength of schedule has been in essentially making an NCAA-worthy rating impossible. It's totally nonsensical for Coyle to state an expectation of NCAA contention this season when it's all but statistically improbable with the schedule he co-developed. As we've asked so many times in so many ways, what the fuck are we doing?
 

upnorthkid said:
With the following left
vs PSU (quad 3)
vs NW (quad 2)
at Neb (quad 1)
vs WI (quad 1)
at Rutgers (quad 2)

would certainly be interesting. Have some nice road wins (IA, USC, UCLA) and a good clutch of quad 1s. Think 4-1 puts them in play but then would definitely need multiple BTT wins to get that win total to at least 20. curious to see what @SelectionSunday thinks given the win tracker has dropped off a bit (understandably so)
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Thanks, see "Magic number" thread.
 


Bad Gopher said:
Tony tweeted today about how disastrous the non-conference strength of schedule has been in essentially making an NCAA-worthy rating impossible. It's totally nonsensical for Coyle to state an expectation of NCAA contention this season when it's all but statistically improbable with the schedule he co-developed. As we've asked so many times in so many ways, what the fuck are we doing?
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The coaches make the schedule. Not that Coyle can't weigh in.
 

howeda7 said:
The coaches make the schedule. Not that Coyle can't weigh in.
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Pardon my ignorance of how it works. I suppose it's set well in advance and the die had largely been cast by the time Coyle laid down the expectation. But man, you can't undermine yourself like this. It's essentially playing not to lose in a way.
 

Blizzard said:
With every win I think Johnson should be given another year. Talk me off the ledge.
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It needs to continue for him to stay on. I think that 9 wins in probably going to save him. 9-11 isn't satisfactory, but 9 wins would mean going 9-5 with a squad that is way below average for Big Ten talent. That would be an awfully impressive run of coaching. I think 8 wins is on the border for Coyle where he thinks about it- maybe it's 60-40 Ben gets fired. I am stunned that we won last night. Down 17 and I thought we were going to get beat by 25. The UCLA talent is so much better than ours with the exception of Garcia who obviously was the best player on the floor and is certainly playing at first team all Big Ten level now.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Pardon my ignorance of how it works. I suppose it's set well in advance and the die had largely been cast by the time Coyle laid down the expectation. But man, you can't undermine yourself like this. It's essentially playing not to lose in a way.
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I don't think basketball is set that far in advance beyond maybe a Home-and-Home obligation as well as potentially a tournament.

This year's non-conference slate put a tremendous amount of weight into the Orlando/ESPN games. They came out of that empty, leaving zilch in terms of room for error without a dominating Big 10 campaign.

It stinks, but I think it's tough to judge one's own roster much less their own and then balance it with what it costs to contract them to come into the Barn.

Seems part of those complications could be mitigated by scheduling a team that could take the Light Rail to the Barn or others that can bus in from the Dakotas.
 



howeda7 said:
The players who can potentially return next year scored something like 2 points combined last night. So...
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I don’t think the incoming freshmen are guys that can be relied on for big minutes or scoring either. Even if Betts comes back next year that leaves 7 spots I believe. If Ben goes all seniors again I still would expect a worse year next year.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Pardon my ignorance of how it works. I suppose it's set well in advance and the die had largely been cast by the time Coyle laid down the expectation. But man, you can't undermine yourself like this. It's essentially playing not to lose in a way.
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Outside of saying "I need X home games" I don't think the AD tells them who to schedule. And most of it was done long after Coyle made his comments. They even kicked the can on the game at Mizzou though that may have been their request.

In any event, Ben put himself behind the 8 ball with the awful non-conference that only had one possible good win on it and then didn't even win the ones he should have.
 

CentralGopher said:
I don’t think the incoming freshmen are guys that can be relied on for big minutes or scoring either. Even if Betts comes back next year that leaves 7 spots I believe. If Ben goes all seniors again I still would expect a worse year next year.
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Certainly not. Asuma is more highly rated than any of the ones coming next year and he's up and down at best. In the portal, they're unlikely to land anyone nearly as good as Dawson Garcia. So next year will very likely be worse. That's why this "job saving" run is likely very costly.
 

Initially the bar was we had to get in NCCA tournament. We were so bad it was like it moved to we had to get in Big Ten tournament. With the seniors we have and Dawson Garcia being a well compensated star the bar should be the NCCA . We have one decent player returning next year and some less than heralded recruits. Another May and June scramble to get mid majors players seems likely with Ben. Unless we make the tournament he’s got to go. A win over the skunks might change my mind but that ain’t happening imo.
 



The team, mostly Garcia, had an outstanding game. The announcers seemed to be onto the wisdom of Johnson when they blurted out that there was a spot on the floor where the Gophers parked a defender on almost every play which naturally disrupted the UCLA offense. They almost broke the neutral discipline of journalism and profusely praising the genius of Ben. It lasted all of maybe 12 seconds, enough time to make the point.
 

CentralGopher said:
So for those that want him back is this what you want? More inexcusable non-conference losses and lousy play early in conference until they gel and still miss the NCAA tournament? I don’t see how that can get anyone excited or be something you want to continue.
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StCroix said:
Mediocrity is fine with some people...pretty sad. He cannot take this team any further than this. Hes proved that
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Wanting someone back and thinking they'll be back are two different things. You could think he'll be back while not wanting him back, as you could think he won't be back even though you want him to be
 

Blackhammer said:
Initially the bar was we had to get in NCCA tournament. We were so bad it was like it moved to we had to get in Big Ten tournament. With the seniors we have and Dawson Garcia being a well compensated star the bar should be the NCCA . We have one decent player returning next year and some less than heralded recruits. Another May and June scramble to get mid majors players seems likely with Ben. Unless we make the tournament he’s got to go. A win over the skunks might change my mind but that ain’t happening imo.
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I think that the undoing of Ben - barring a really good close to the conference season (3-2 or 4-1) is the lack of talent he put around Garcia. No speed. Minimal shooting. Poor free throw shooters (he recruited 3 career 50% FT shooters which is unreal). No big scoring wing. No Big Ten worthy 5 man. The one thing he did recruit was toughness and that took a long time to manifest itself into something cohesive.
 




Lincoln gopher said:
Who on staff would they turn to if Johnson had been fired during the season in your opinion?
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Dave Thorson had been a head coach for more than 20 years, and is highly respected by college coaches everywhere. He was on Clem's staff years ago. He would be more than qualified to step in as an interim. That doesn't mean he is a long-term answer.
 

Johnson is a good coach--by the old rules. Unfortunately, those days are gone. I still think he was a worthwhile risk--by the old rules. He has never been properly financially supported. As I've said many times before, Coyle needs to pursue other interests when Johnson pursues other interests. If Johnson comes back, he needs real money to buy real players.

He's molded a bunch of marginal players who've never played together around one legit second team all B1G player into a really pretty good, pretty tough team. The problem is that it took 3.5 months to get there.

I would take him over Cronin and his 499 wins any day.

Finally, I asked a week or so ago for proof that Gabel made Coyle hire Johnson. Haven't seen a response.
 



jamiche said:
Johnson is a good coach--by the old rules. Unfortunately, those days are gone. I still think he was a worthwhile risk--by the old rules. He has never been properly financially supported. As I've said many times before, Coyle needs to pursue other interests when Johnson pursues other interests. If Johnson comes back, he needs real money to buy real players.

He's molded a bunch of marginal players who've never played together around one legit second team all B1G player into a really pretty good, pretty tough team. The problem is that it took 3.5 months to get there.

I would take him over Cronin and his 499 wins any day.

Finally, I asked a week or so ago for proof that Gabel made Coyle hire Johnson. Haven't seen a response.
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I think somebody said it’s written down on a scroll somewhere.
 



howeda7 said:
Add LaVelle to the long list of local media Ben lovers

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Not sure there is a long list but there have been a few local types that seem to be jumping on the keep Johnson bandwagon.

I do think his chances keep improving with each win but there is still work to do before he truly gets into the run it back territory.

When we were sitting at 0-6 I definitely did not see a 6-3 run with some really impressive wins mixed in.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Not sure there is a long list but there have been a few local types that seem to be jumping on the keep Johnson bandwagon.

I do think his chances keep improving with each win but there is still work to do before he truly gets into the run it back territory.

When we were sitting at 0-6 I definitely did not see a 6-3 run with some really impressive wins mixed in.
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The beauty of it is, that no one saw it coming. That’s what makes this special and memorable, except for people who seek the negative instead of the positive in life.
 
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Gopher_In_NYC said:
The beauty of it is, that no one saw it coming. That’s what makes this special and memorable, except for people who seek the negative instead of the positive in life.
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I mean.....Ben kind of saw it coming :)

He gave that interview where he talked about the team just needing to get a win to start believing in themselves.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I mean.....Ben kind of saw it coming :)

He gave that interview where he talked about the team just needing to get a win to start believing in themselves.
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Were you voted “World’s Best Hall Monitor” in 6th grade?
 

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