Fire Ben Johnson

[60's Guy]

Start the five best. Sub when needed.

I have not paid close enough attention to the Gophers this year to have an opinion on playing time.
I generally only watch the last 5 or 10 minutes. But, coaching high school, I'm not sure I ever started my best 5...unless we were really limited talent wise and doing the Iron Five thing.

I sat down with the kid who could score but was often also the worst defender. And explained why they could help the team the most by being 6th man. When they went in, their job was to score...green light. Maybe you gave your best player a couple minutes rest at the same time.
If it worked to plan everybody would criticize me, the coach, for not starting them....completely ignoring their defensive shortcomings. This also worked when they wanted more playing time...
well, that can happen but you gotta guard somebody, get a defensive rebound now and then. Often, they would.

Same thing when you have a really aggressive kid who fouls out of every game. You don't want the first whistle of the game to be a foul on them. But, you need them...so you save them a little and put more pressure on the opponent throughout.

Some kids can't play but they are physical, annoying trash talkers who can get the other teams best player completely off their game for a night.

Lots of reasons for me I might not start my best 5. The whole key is explaining individually what's going on. And having a reason. Not knowing who your best players are is a completely different topic.

You definitely want a situation where you get better by subbing versus worse. It's a balancing act.
Communication individually is paramount. If kids understand why and what's going on....most all want to win....we very often did.

 

[Chico Gopher]

Ben seems like a good man and the players seem to respect him and accept his values and beliefs.

But this is one of the things I dislike about Ben. He continues to trot out the same five no matter who is playing the best at the time. Being a starter has a certain stigma that all players strive for plus players want those who deserve that designation to be worthy. If not, it could cause dissension.

Somehow the guys seem to accept their given role versus the role that they often deserve.

Wondering if you've ever heard a coach say "One of the things that really helps our team stay together and work hard every day to get better is the fact that some of our guys refuse to accept their roles on the team. Their pouting about not starting and not being "team first-me second" kind of players, has really helped this team overcome a terrible start and start winning some games.".

Seems like the unwillingness to accept roles and adjust their game for the good of the overall squad was at least part of the meltdown problem with last years club, wasn't it? Just asking.

 

[AZgopherGirl]

Today we start the big push?

I’ve been out of pocket for a few weeks. Looks like our Gophers have had some nice wins in the past couple of weeks. Honest question: has Ben saved his job, earned another year? If not yet, can he still do that and what would it take? Making the Big Ten tournament? Winning a tournament game? What’s the consensus?

 

[SelectionSunday]

I’ve been out of pocket for a few weeks. Looks like our Gophers have had some nice wins in the past couple of weeks. Honest question: has Ben saved his job, earned another year? If not yet, can he still do that and what would it take? Making the Big Ten tournament? Winning a tournament game? What’s the consensus?

Ben is making it “uncomfortable” for Coyle with some of these unexpected wins.

A couple weeks ago I would’ve said it’s a done deal that Coyle fires him, but now with a couple more wins getting a feeling Coyle may kick the can down the road for another season.

 

[pondgopher]

SS, you're right. CBJ could get two more conference wins and really mess up Coyle's plan. Then what? Well, that can will rattle around Williams Arena next year and never ever hit any of the remaining 1,500 season ticket holders.

 

[WindyCityGopher]

Ben is making it “uncomfortable” for Coyle with some of these unexpected wins.

A couple weeks ago I would’ve said it’s a done deal that Coyle fires him, but now with a couple more wins getting a feeling Coyle may kick the can down the road for another season.

I think it ultimately comes down to whether Coyle knows who his guy is to replace Johnson, and what level of confidence he has that he can get him. We do not want Tubby Firing 2.0, getting rid of a coach only to flail around trying to find someone to take the job and landing on your 5th choice.

 

[Zeppelin Gopher]

Ben is making it “uncomfortable” for Coyle with some of these unexpected wins.

A couple weeks ago I would’ve said it’s a done deal that Coyle fires him, but now with a couple more wins getting a feeling Coyle may kick the can down the road for another season.

I'm enjoying our recent play, but no way in hell should a 7-13 conference season come close to earning Ben another year.

That would be an insane decision from Coyle.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Ben is making it “uncomfortable” for Coyle with some of these unexpected wins.

A couple weeks ago I would’ve said it’s a done deal that Coyle fires him, but now with a couple more wins getting a feeling Coyle may kick the can down the road for another season.

And that's what it would be: kicking the can down the road. Perhaps that's what Coyle would prefer to do if he can get away with it. At the same time, he dismissed Whalen a year earlier than I thought he'd consider it. Heaven knows how that man's mind works.

There's no way next year isn't a significant step back. The high school class coming in is good, but there is no replacement for Garcia coming over the hill unless Ben pulls a rabbit out of his hat in the portal. And what all-conference caliber transfer will be coming here? I'd love to be proven wrong, but let's be realistic.

As an alumnus, season ticket holder, and lover of the program, my stomach is sour thinking about the erosion of the program over the past several years and what another year of erosion will do to it--erosion in season ticket sales, erosion in hope and faith among us true fans, and the standing and reputation of Gopher basketball in the local and national communities. Even if we don't finish with the worst record in the league this year, you have to put the U at the bottom of the conference in terms of overall program health and prospective.

 

[upnorthkid]

I'm enjoying our recent play, but no way in hell should a 7-13 conference season come close to earning Ben another year.

That would be an insane decision from Coyle.

yep unless they go 5-1 with a couple BTT wins and at least get themselves on the bubble of the NCAA tournament, there is no reason you change what your metric was to start the season. All this is doing so far is just making the blown games vs UNT, Wichita, OSU feel worse as you move those losses and go back to SS's original "get in" post and they'd be hitting criteria basically everywhere with a great shot at the tournament without needing much from the BTT.

 

[UltimateFan1]

Ben has had a good run these last few games going 5 and 3. The problem I have is fundamentals. Rebounding and freethrow shooting, and ball movement. It has improved over the second half of the season, but it was so pathetic the 1st half of the year it was almost unwatchable. I had season tickets for over 20 years and just couldn't take it any more. Ben seems like a great guy, but we have to decide what we are going to accept.
My problem, I remember the Musselman-Dutcher-Haskins years. We expected to be in the top half of the conference every year. I remember 76-77, 24-3( later vacated) and 81-82 Big 10 Champs and 96-97 31-4, Big 10 Champs (later vacated).
Are we going to accept mediocrity or do we want to be a contender again?

 

[Bad Gopher]

Ben has had a good run these last few games going 5 and 3. The problem I have is fundamentals. Rebounding and freethrow shooting, and ball movement. It has improved over the second half of the season, but it was so pathetic the 1st half of the year it was almost unwatchable. I had season tickets for over 20 years and just couldn't take it any more. Ben seems like a great guy, but we have to decide what we are going to accept.
My problem, I remember the Musselman-Dutcher-Haskins years. We expected to be in the top half of the conference every year. I remember 76-77, 24-3( later vacated) and 81-82 Big 10 Champs and 96-97 31-4, Big 10 Champs (later vacated).
Are we going to accept mediocrity or do we want to be a contender again?

Mediocrity would be a big step up from where we've been.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Ben is making it “uncomfortable” for Coyle with some of these unexpected wins.

A couple weeks ago I would’ve said it’s a done deal that Coyle fires him, but now with a couple more wins getting a feeling Coyle may kick the can down the road for another season.

I still think we are a ways from making it truly uncomfortable. Johnson has yet to prove he can build a team capable of getting over .500 in the conference and he has had multiple opportunities to rebuild the roster during his time here.

So knowing next year is another nearly complete rebuild of the roster I still think we would have to finish really strong and probably win a few in the BTT to really make the decision tough for Coyle in regards to Ben's future.

Solid chance our Big Ten record ends up being very similar to last year but I don't think that is enough to justify running it back again and letting Johnson rebuild the roster again.

 

[orangegopher15]

Ben is making it “uncomfortable” for Coyle with some of these unexpected wins.

A couple weeks ago I would’ve said it’s a done deal that Coyle fires him, but now with a couple more wins getting a feeling Coyle may kick the can down the road for another season.

I agree. I don’t think it’s the right decision but I lean more and more to Coyle letting it ride one more season.

 

[DarthGopher]

Agreed. But remember being a player? All that mattered whether you started the game. #selfishteammate.

It is about getting your name announced and your roughly 11 seconds of spotlight time as you ran through your teammates to the floor. The chicks in the stands screaming in support. We were gods!

 

[howeda7]

And that's what it would be: kicking the can down the road. Perhaps that's what Coyle would prefer to do if he can get away with it. At the same time, he dismissed Whalen a year earlier than I thought he'd consider it. Heaven knows how that man's mind works.

There's no way next year isn't a significant step back. The high school class coming in is good, but there is no replacement for Garcia coming over the hill unless Ben pulls a rabbit out of his hat in the portal. And what all-conference caliber transfer will be coming here? I'd love to be proven wrong, but let's be realistic.

As an alumnus, season ticket holder, and lover of the program, my stomach is sour thinking about the erosion of the program over the past several years and what another year of erosion will do to it--erosion in season ticket sales, erosion in hope and faith among us true fans, and the standing and reputation of Gopher basketball in the local and national communities. Even if we don't finish with the worst record in the league this year, you have to put the U at the bottom of the conference in terms of overall program health and prospective.

Exactly. If you bring him back for year 5, what is the standard to earn year 6? Is next year finally the NCAA or you're fired season? Because he's highly unlikely to achieve that with another completely new roster. And if that's not the standard, then what are we doing here?

 

[FinnGopher]

I agree. I don’t think it’s the right decision but I lean more and more to Coyle letting it ride one more season.

Nope. The loss of viewership and care about this program demands a change in coaching. Otherwise, the team can go play their games at Augsburg and no one would care.

 

[howeda7]

If Ben wants to truly make it uncomfortable, beat UCLA, avoid stepping on a rake against Penn State and Northwestern and then it becomes a conversation.

 

[howeda7]

Ben is making it “uncomfortable” for Coyle with some of these unexpected wins.

A couple weeks ago I would’ve said it’s a done deal that Coyle fires him, but now with a couple more wins getting a feeling Coyle may kick the can down the road for another season.

That's why the plug should have been pulled as soon as the NCAA hopes were dead in December.

 

[kg21]

Asuma is all that would be coming back.

For the love of everything, start over.

I love the gophers, but I'm getting to the point that if the administration doesn't care, why the hell should I care!

 

[howeda7]

Asuma is all that would be coming back.

Bold to assume that.

 

[kg21]

Bold to assume that.

Not really, he loves Minnesota, wanted to play for them, and picked the gophs over much better offers.

 

[leib0039]

We have less than a 1% chance to make the tournament. In year 4, 0 tournament appearances, very little coming back, avg at best recruiting class coming in. If he is back for year 5 then we should cancel the program and focus our 20m in NIL elsewhere.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

We have less than a 1% chance to make the tournament. In year 4, 0 tournament appearances, very little coming back, avg at best recruiting class coming in. If he is back for year 5 then we should cancel the program and focus our 20m in NIL elsewhere.
View attachment 35776

I had some hope but you brought numbers and now I have less hope.

 

[bga1]

I'm enjoying our recent play, but no way in hell should a 7-13 conference season come close to earning Ben another year.

That would be an insane decision from Coyle.

It would be insane at 7-13. However, if you look at the rest of our schedule, there is an opportunity to go 3-2 or 4-1 in the last 5. So win tonight, (a massive upset) and the possibility is that they could finish 9-11 or 10- 10. Let's say it's 9-11- Coyle would be looking at firing a coach that just turned an 0-6 team into a team that went 9-5 down the stretch and that is rare air for our Gopher program.
He should still probably pull the trigger but it sure makes it a thinker.

Ben has the 3 frosh, Asuma, Grove and maybe Cochran to start with for next year. Otherwise the new guy is probably looking at just rebuilding with Asuma and Grove only.

It's all hypothetical. High probability is for something closer to that 7 and 13 mark and that's a no brainer- he's done. 8 wins plus becomes thinker range for Coyle I would guess.

 

[GopherBlood777]

It would be insane at 7-13. However, if you look at the rest of our schedule, there is an opportunity to go 3-2 or 4-1 in the last 5. So win tonight, (a massive upset) and the possibility is that they could finish 9-11 or 10- 10. Let's say it's 9-11- Coyle would be looking at firing a coach that just turned an 0-6 team into a team that went 9-5 down the stretch and that is rare air for our Gopher program.
He should still probably pull the trigger but it sure makes it a thinker.

Ben has the 3 frosh, Asuma, Grove and maybe Cochran to start with for next year. Otherwise the new guy is probably looking at just rebuilding with Asuma and Grove only.

It's all hypothetical. High probability is for something closer to that 7 and 13 mark and that's a no brainer- he's done. 8 wins plus becomes thinker range for Coyle I would guess.

Don't forget Betts and Frank Mitchell!

 

[gopherbadgerman]

I always thought it was NCAA or bust? Or does starting extra shitty and then improving a bunch change the expectation?

 

[golfing18now]

This was always the scenario that was the most problematic for me. Win 7-9 games in conference and look improved in February. The narrative becomes "look how this team has improved". "If only Hawkins and Payne had come back, this would have been a team competing for a B1G championship." "What more can you do in this climate?" I think many of the local media-light members and those that don't follow this as closely as those of us on this board buy into that narrative.

The reality is he leads the only team other than Washington (who moved on from their coach) to not make an NCAA tourney in the last four years. We haven't even been close. He's had three out of his four years where he had to do a total rebuild similar to what will be the case next year -- somewhat not his fault but somewhat by design. Does anybody really have confidence in his ability to (a) put together a schedule that doesn't kneecap his own team from the start as it pertains to NCAA consideration and (b) do a total rebuild to elevate his team to the upper half of the conference and in position for a berth? I don't.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I always thought it was NCAA or bust? Or does starting extra shitty and then improving a bunch change the expectation?

I mean the NCAA or bust thing has been an expectation here.....we have no clue if it was in fact Coyle's expectation but seems pretty likely that it was.

As for the second part.....guess we will all find out in a few weeks. If the team closes on a nice run it certainly makes the optics of firing the coach look worse but can't be overlooked that the strong finish will be needed just to avoid a horrible season that would have resulted in a bottom 3 finish and being left out of the conference tournament (which of course still might happen).

 

[MNVCGUY]

This was always the scenario that was the most problematic for me. Win 7-9 games in conference and look improved in February. The narrative becomes "look how this team has improved". "If only Hawkins and Payne had come back, this would have been a team competing for a B1G championship." "What more can you do in this climate?" I think many of the local media-light members and those that don't follow this as closely as those of us on this board buy into that narrative.

The reality is he leads the only team other than Washington (who moved on from their coach) to not make an NCAA tourney in the last four years. We haven't even been close. He's had three out of his four years where he had to do a total rebuild similar to what will be the case next year -- somewhat not his fault but somewhat by design. Does anybody really have confidence in his ability to (a) put together a schedule that doesn't kneecap his own team from the start as it pertains to NCAA consideration and (b) do a total rebuild to elevate his team to the upper half of the conference and in position for a berth? I don't.

So my question as it pertains to post like this one....(and this is not a knock on your post)....

Why do some assume Coyle (who has a massive stake in having a successful basketball program as it is one of the key sports he gets evaluated on), would side with the the first paragraph group and not the second paragraph group?

There is no energy around the program, the vast majority of the roster is done after this year, attendance is in the tank....what would motivate him to want to run that back again?

 

[Ope3]

That's why the plug should have been pulled as soon as the NCAA hopes were dead in December.

Pulling the plug in December would have been a complete eff-you to the roster assembled, the folks that had purchased tickets for the rest of the 2024-25 and those that had provided NIL money to this years team.

Being afraid the squad might actually win enough games to make it a more difficult decision to let the HC go would have been a cowardly way to lead.

For Football, Coyle let Claeys go after finishing 8-4 in the Regular Season, above .500 in the Big 10, and winning a Bowl Game for crying out loud. I trust he can make a decision for the Basketball Program once all the games have been played and all the factors have been considered.