Best Minnesota season in 23 years

[scher215]

The last three years we have beaten Louisville, North Carolina, Indiana when they were number 1 in the country, UCLA and Michigan State when they were a top 10 team in the country. I find it very funny how hypocritical some of you are to dismiss the UCLA win because of an injury to one of their best players when you give Tubby no slack for losing Al Nolen two years ago and Trevor Mbakwe last year. Seems to me you want to have it both ways.

Exactly.

 

[MRJ]

What are you talking about? I gave Tubby plenty of benefit of the doubt when he lost Nolen. Also gave him the benefit of the doubt after losing Trevor last year, so give the hypocritical talk a rest. This year there are no excuses. None. The team looked exactly the same as it did last year and the year before. In other words, it's been six years of almost the exact same thing, regardless of health, injuries or transfers. Six years is plenty of time to hold Tubby accountable for not moving the team forward for an entire year's schedule.

 

[ethomasp31]

There has been an agenda since the middle of January and probably before that to get rid of Tubby at all costs. I heard it from people in December the Friday before the MSU game that if lose the Gophers and Tubby were in trouble. There was a portion of our fan base that couldn't wait to pounce. You don't see how that can effect recruiting?

 

[MRJ]

There has been an agenda since the middle of January and probably before that to get rid of Tubby at all costs. I heard it from people in December the Friday before the MSU game that if lose the Gophers and Tubby were in trouble. There was a portion of our fan base that couldn't wait to pounce. You don't see how that can effect recruiting?

Maybe there are some folks are actively campaigning to get him fired for some nefarious reason. I don't know. However, I'm not one of them. Do I think it's possible they could hurt recruiting? I suppose. But I would think that the kid and his parents/guardians would/should trust the person recruiting them more than the words of some lunatic fringe element.

As for me, I didn't start calling for a change in earnest until after the Nebraska, Purdue and Illinois games. I tend to wait awhile before I make calls like that. But I can only speak for myself. I have no idea what other folks' motivations are.

 

[ethomasp31]

What are you talking about? I gave Tubby plenty of benefit of the doubt when he lost Nolen. Also gave him the benefit of the doubt after losing Trevor last year, so give the hypocritical talk a rest. This year there are no excuses. None. The team looked exactly the same as it did last year and the year before. In other words, it's been six years of almost the exact same thing, regardless of health, injuries or transfers. Six years is plenty of time to hold Tubby accountable for not moving the team forward for an entire year's schedule.

You really have given him the benefit of the doubt those years? You are contradicting yourself!!! The last 5 years we have gone to the NCAA Tournament in every year that Al Nolen and Trevor Mbakwe didn't get injured. We were 5-3 in the B1G when Nolen got hurt and would have gone to the tournament that year for sure. Last year despite losing Mbakwe we made it to the NIT Championship game. So really the last 5 years we have made the tournament 3 times, the Championship game of the NIT, and would have gone to the NCAA tournament the other year had Nolen not gotten hurt. So we would have made it to the tournament 4 times and probably all 5 without injuries.

 

[Parski1]

There were plenty of fans calling for Tubby's head last week and more than a few in the media. Also, some real big D-Bags on Gopherhole hoping for a "one and done" in order to improve Tubby's chances of losing his job. Trolls I'm sure...But for now...it's Tubby Time!

 

[GopherJake]

So you would have been happier if they had won the last two games to get them over .500 in the conference and lost in the first round of the NCAA Tournament? The toxic attitude of the fans has hurt the recruiting of the Big Three more than Tubby Smith being the coach.

Why can't we have both? Seriously? Neither Purdue nor Nebraska made the NCAA tournament. That's what I want. That's what I expect from Tubby's "best" team. Not the #9 seed in the Big Ten tournament and mild sweat on Selection Sunday. Sure hope next year's recruiting class pans out. I don't think it's any slam dunk.

He's a good man. I certainly don't "hate" him. I'm just not sure he's got the passion and drive to compete day-in, day-out, in this era.

 

[MRJ]

You really have given him the benefit of the doubt those years? You are contradicting yourself!!! The last 5 years we have gone to the NCAA Tournament in every year that Al Nolen and Trevor Mbakwe didn't get injured. We were 5-3 in the B1G when Nolen got hurt and would have gone to the tournament that year for sure. Last year despite losing Mbakwe we made it to the NIT Championship game. So really the last 5 years we have made the tournament 3 times, the Championship game of the NIT, and would have gone to the NCAA tournament the other year had Nolen not gotten hurt. So without injuries we would have made it t the tournament 4 times and probably all 5 without injuries.

Yeah, I really have. I know that's hard for you to comprehend since it isn't part of your conspiracy theory and all. But hey, if you want to continue to spew your stuff about some evil villains being at the root of all of this, go ahead. Then again, maybe you didn't read or comprehend my previous post. Read it again.

The bottom line is that with this, his "best team" (those are HIS words, not mine) he had to do better. Not only did they not do better, they looked very much like the same team they had even with injuries and transfers of previous years. So when does the feeling of goodwill start wearing thin or wearing out completely? How much longer do we wait?

 

[ethomasp31]

Well the Nebraska game was hardly Tubby's fault. Austin Hollins, Williams and Coleman didn't make a field goal that game. I honestly don't know what he could have done. Funny thing is, if we would have won that game we would have been 6th in the Big Ten and most like won a B1G tournament game as well. We would have probably had a 7 seed in the NCAA tournament but possibly could have lost, so who cares about that right now. We advanced, Wisconsin didn't. If you want to talk about firing the coach AT THE END OF THE YEAR fine. We can have that discussion. But it doesn't do the program, the team, or the recruiting for our "fans" to do what they have been doing the past 8 weeks.

 

[ethomasp31]

Yeah, I really have. I know that's hard for you to comprehend since it isn't part of your conspiracy theory and all. But hey, if you want to continue to spew your stuff about some evil villains being at the root of all of this, go ahead. Then again, maybe you didn't read or comprehend my previous post. Read it again.

The bottom line is that with this, his "best team" (those are HIS words, not mine) he had to do better. Not only did they not do better, they looked very much like the same team they had even with injuries and transfers of previous years. So when does the feeling of goodwill start wearing thin or wearing out completely? How much longer do we wait?

His best team won a NCAA Tournament game for the first time in 16 years for our program and the first time in 23 years that is still in the record book.

 

[MRJ]

I understand your point. But when a team loses 11 of 16 games down the stretch, people are going to talk about the coach, even if he makes the NCAAs and wins a game. It's almost an inevitability in this day and age. It sucks, but to borrow a phrase, "it is what it is."

 

[underground629]

dpo, care to address this? You've suddenly changed your mind because we won a tournament game? I'm still not sure why you're so hung up on the official NCAA record and our lack of historical success. Those factors make 6 years of never having a winning BT record acceptable? You can argue that they affect our recruiting ceiling, but it doesn't change the fact that Tubby has underachieved with the players he has had this year and others. I'm extremely happy that we won our first round game, but to be honest, beating a team that just lost their best player doesn't suddenly make this season no longer disappointing. Beating Florida can change things though.

About this season you said that if Minnesota failed to finish in the top 5 of in the Big Ten that you would want Tubby Smith to be fired.

They finished in a tie for 7th place in the standings and were earned the 9th seed in the Big Ten tournament.

Do you still want Smith to be fired or have you changed your stance on this? If your stance has changed, why?

 

[ethomasp31]

And no you didn't give him the benefit of the doubt those years because we've been to the NCAA tournament in every year those injuries didn't happen the last 5 years.

 

[GopherJake]

His best team won a NCAA Tournament game for the first time in 16 years for our program and the first time in 23 years that is still in the record book.

This is an honest question: Why does the history of the program prior to Tubby matter so much (at all?) when evaluating the job Tubby has done? Especially after 6 years?

 

[goldengophers]

This is an honest question: Why does the history of the program prior to Tubby matter so much (at all?) when evaluating the job Tubby has done? Especially after 6 years?

It doesn't, he was compensated to the point where the past was to be rendered irrelevant.

 

[MRJ]

And no you didn't give him the benefit of the doubt those years because we've been to the NCAA tournament in every year those injuries didn't happen the last 5 years.

You like talking in circles, regardless of how ridiculous is sounds.

I gave him EVERY opportunity to build up this program to the point where he would move the program forward. I even waited through all the injuries (not his fault) and the transfers (some of which was probably his fault) before calling for a change. That amounts to six years. Had it not been for all the injuries and transfers, I would have judged him much more harshly sooner than this. But again, this fact doesn't fit with your "anyone who wants him gone is evil" mantra.

 

[ethomasp31]

dpo, care to address this? You've suddenly changed your mind because we won a tournament game? I'm still not sure why you're so hung up on the official NCAA record and our lack of historical success. Those factors make 6 years of never having a winning BT record acceptable? You can argue that they affect our recruiting ceiling, but it doesn't change the fact that Tubby has underachieved with the players he has had this year and others. I'm extremely happy that we won our first round game, but to be honest, beating a team that just lost their best player doesn't suddenly make this season no longer disappointing. Beating Florida can change things though.

I honestly don't think anyone would mind having this discussion AT THE RIGHT TIME. But the "we don't have good in bounds plays...FIRE TUBBY", "Williams hasn't progressed...FIRE TUBBY", "Austin can't shoot...FIRE TUBBY" and other crap like that gets really old. If you are a high school player living in the Twin Cities and you continually hear our fan base talking like that, why the hell would you go to Minnesota?

 

[ethomasp31]

You like talking in circles, regardless of how ridiculous is sounds.

I gave him EVERY opportunity to build up this program to the point where he would move the program forward. I even waited through all the injuries (not his fault) and the transfers (some of which was probably his fault) before calling for a change. That amounts to six years. Had it not been for all the injuries and transfers, I would have judged him much more harshly sooner than this. But again, this fact doesn't fit with your "anyone who wants him gone is evil" mantra.

I haven't said anyone who doesn't want him is evil...I ask that you do things at the right *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#ing time.

 

[Slim Tubby]

It doesn't, he was compensated to the point where the past was to be rendered irrelevant.

R
He/she can't answer that question because it already answers itself. You either are okay with being in the bottom half of the Big 10 or you're not. You can argue semantics all you want but history speaks for itself. Bo Ryan (turd) consistently gets his teams to over-achieve and Tubby hasn't. I like Tubby but his record at MN doesn't show improvement and he should be held accountable regardless of the decision that are made.

 

[scher215]

R
He/she can't answer that question because it already answers itself. You either are okay with being in the bottom half of the Big 10 or you're not. You can argue semantics all you want but history speaks for itself. Bo Ryan (turd) consistently gets his teams to over-achieve and Tubby hasn't. I like Tubby but his record at MN doesn't show improvement and he should be held accountable regardless of the decision that are made.

Speaking of Bo Ryan I'd rather be in the round of 32 than be one and done. I'd also rather win pre-season tournaments and beat good teams in the non conference than not do that too.

The argument about Tubby centers on one thing. How much do you value big 10 record compared to the non conference schedule and the tournament? Those of us who value the non conference and the tournament are waiting until the end of the season before sealing Tubby's fate.

 

[ethomasp31]

This is an honest question: Why does the history of the program prior to Tubby matter so much (at all?) when evaluating the job Tubby has done? Especially after 6 years?

My point is that without the injuries we would have probably been to 5 straight NCAA tournaments. That would have been a pretty nice run. I'm not sure any of us know the whole story, but my hunch is that Tubby wasn't given the support he had hoped for by our administration in regards to the Royce White and Trevor Mbakwe when they first came here. And as far as Tubby's best team at Minnesota, that was his best team at Minnesota and it wasn't given a chance to compete.

 

[Slim Tubby]

I haven't said anyone who doesn't want him is evil...I ask that you do things at the right *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#ing time.

The right time? The right time? We owe nothing to Tubby and everything to the University, the students and it's fans. The fact the you blame the "fans" for Tubby's woes is all I need to know about your thought process.

 

[MRJ]

I haven't said anyone who doesn't want him is evil...I ask that you do things at the right *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#ing time.

Earlier in this thread, you stated that folks who want a change have an "agenda" and want Tubby gone "at all costs." I simply stated I wasn't one of those people and that I wanted a change because of what I had seen from him and his teams. That sent you right around the bend.

If you want to cease and desist from this conversation, fine. But please refrain from lumping everyone who might want a change in with some kind of wild conspiracy.

 

[MRJ]

Speaking of Bo Ryan I'd rather be in the round of 32 than be one and done. I'd also rather win pre-season tournaments and beat good teams in the non conference than not do that too.

The argument about Tubby centers on one thing. How much do you value big 10 record compared to the non conference schedule and the tournament? Those of us who value the non conference and the tournament are waiting until the end of the season before sealing Tubby's fate.

This is a fair statement imo. Personally, I value all of it, which is at the heart of my disappointment.

 

[ZebH82]

I don't agree with the OP, but this brings up an interesting question...What are the best seasons we remember?

For me, I'm in the camp that doesn't care about the vacated stuff...Those seasons happened and my memories are real. I don't reduce those seasons at all.

1)1997 - Final 4, epic Big Ten run. Great players and memories. Beating IU in Bloomington in OT when we trailed by 9 with less than a minute to go. Rolling thru the Big Ten at 16-2. Beating Clemson and UCLA. Terrible charge call on Courtney James stopped us vs Kentucky. Kentucky also got 4 or 5 other 50/50 calls before that charge and that's really why Clem went off. They got beneficial calls all night. We blew a ton of layups..Eric Harris, Tarver and John Thomas. Also, Quincy had a terrible night. Something like 1-9. I think we beat Kentucky 8 out of 10 times if we get a fair shake from the refs and if we don't shoot like crap. I guess we played nervous.

2)1982 - Big Ten Title, lost in sweet 16 to Denny Crum's Louisville team. Had an terrific performance vs OSU in the Barn to clinch the title. Both teams shot well and we won by about 10 points, 90-80 as I recall. A little disappointing how we played vs LV. Randy Brewer got in foul trouble...Had some great role players like Cookie Holmes, Zebedee Howell and Daryl Mitchell who was Mr. Clutch all season. Mark Hall and Tommy Davis had some huge games as well. Trent was the star, but it was very much a team effort. As I recall, we struggled to shoot the ball in that LV game and were playing from 4 to 8 points down most of the game.

3)1990 - Elite 8 run. Kind of disappointing Big Ten season as they finished 5th I believe. But they really came good in the tourney as a 6 seed. Beating UTEP in OT and Northern Iowa who had upset #2 Missouri and Doug Smith in the opening round. The Gophers came into the Syracuse game a decided underdog. I think they were 8 point dogs. Syracuse had Derrick Coleman and a nice SF named Billy ???? Forget his last name. They were solid but over-rated. The Gophers jumped out to a 5 point lead and held it the whole game. Coleman got a huge Tech for an elbow on Shikanjanski. The GA Tech game is remembered for Kevin Lynch's desperation 3 that came up short, but I remember another charge/block call going against the Gophers in that game late in the first half when the Gophers had a 8 or 9 point lead. We actually led 40-30 or so with about 2 minutes to go in the 1st half. That charge/block call really screwed us and helped them to close the gap to about 5 by HT. Then they came out in the 2nd half with Kenny Anderson and Denis Scott nailing threes. They eventually built up a 8 point lead before Burton hit 2 long 3's in the final minute to get us within 2. Anderson missed the front end of the 1 and 1 with 5 seconds left. We were out of timeouts and Lynch was fed the ball near half court with 4 seconds left...he took 2 dribbles and launched a running and rushed three which came up way short. Coffey put the rebound in about half a second late. Lynch actually had time to pass to Coffey for a dunk or layup if he had looked up. That was a heartbreaker because we had our chances and let them sneak back into the game late in the first half. They took momentum into the 2nd half and got hot. We should have been leading by 10 or 12 before the half. We also missed the dreaded front end of the 1 and 1's late in the first half to help them come back.

4)1993 - We beat G-town in the final of the NIT. Had a nice season in the Big 10 and finished 10-8 I believe. Most were surprised we got snubbed. I don't remember what our RPI was, but we got robbed. Really nice team with Randy Carter, Voshon Leonard, Ernest Nzigamazabo and who else?

5)1998 - We won the NIT again although it was later "vacated" - I really liked that team. Miles Tarver, Sam, Eric Harris, Quincy Lewis and the JUCO transfer Alexander. Got off to a slow start that season because Courtney James and Charles Thomas were both kicked off the team. Then Eric Harris and Alexander got hot in the post season and Sam and Quincy were steady throughout. We had to beat #1 MSU in the 1st Big Ten Tourney just to become NIT eligible and Eric Harris came up huge hitting about 5 threes. I actually attended 2 NIT games against UAB and Marquette and we rolled into NYC playing really well. I remember beating Tark the Shark in OT to get to the final. I think we beat PSU in the final and it wasn't very close. Alexander was the MVP of the Final Four.

Other great seasons better than the current season: 1980 NIT Finalists. 1989 Sweet 16 team.

This season has a chance to surpass them all....but so far, I wouldn't rank this anywhere near the top 5.

 

[scher215]

I don't agree with the OP, but this brings up an interesting question...What are the best seasons we remember?

For me, I'm in the camp that doesn't care about the vacated stuff...Those seasons happened and my memories are real. I don't reduce those seasons at all.

1)1997 - Final 4, epic Big Ten run. Great players and memories. Beating IU in Bloomington in OT when we trailed by 9 with less than a minute to go. Rolling thru the Big Ten at 16-2. Beating Clemson and UCLA. Terrible charge call on Courtney James stopped us vs Kentucky. Kentucky also got 4 or 5 other 50/50 calls before that charge and that's really why Clem went off. They got beneficial calls all night. We blew a ton of layups..Eric Harris, Tarver and John Thomas. Also, Quincy had a terrible night. Something like 1-9. I think we beat Kentucky 8 out of 10 times if we get a fair shake from the refs and if we don't shoot like crap. I guess we played nervous.

2)1982 - Big Ten Title, lost in sweet 16 to Denny Crum's Louisville team. Had an terrific performance vs OSU in the Barn to clinch the title. Both teams shot well and we won by about 10 points, 90-80 as I recall. A little disappointing how we played vs LV. Randy Brewer got in foul trouble...Had some great role players like Cookie Holmes, Zebedee Howell and Daryl Mitchell who was Mr. Clutch all season. Mark Hall and Tommy Davis had some huge games as well. Trent was the star, but it was very much a team effort. As I recall, we struggled to shoot the ball in that LV game and were playing from 4 to 8 points down most of the game.

3)1990 - Elite 8 run. Kind of disappointing Big Ten season as they finished 5th I believe. But they really came good in the tourney as a 6 seed. Beating Siena and Northern Iowa who had upset #2 Missouri and Doug Smith in the opening round. The Gophers came into the Syracuse game a decided underdog. I think they were 8 point dogs. Syracuse had Derrick Coleman and a nice SF named Billy ???? Forget his last name. They were solid but over-rated. The Gophers jumped out to a 5 point lead and held it the whole game. Coleman got a huge Tech for an elbow on Shikanjanski. The GA Tech game is remembered for Kevin Lynch's desperation 3 that came up short, but I remember another charge/block call going against the Gophers in that game late in the first half when the Gophers had a 8 or 9 point lead. We actually led 40-30 or so with about 2 minutes to go in the 1st half. That charge/block call really screwed us and helped them to close the gap to about 5 by HT. Then they came out in the 2nd half with Kenny Anderson and Denis Scott nailing threes. They eventually built up a 8 point lead before Burton hit 2 long 3's in the final minute to get us within 2. Anderson missed the front end of the 1 and 1 with 5 seconds left. We were out of timeouts and Lynch was fed the ball near half court with 4 seconds left...he took 2 dribbles and launched a running and rushed three which came up way short. Coffey put the rebound in about half a second late. Lynch actually had time to pass to Coffey for a dunk or layup if he had looked up. That was a heartbreaker because we had our chances and let them sneak back into the game late in the first half. They took momentum into the 2nd half and got hot. We should have been leading by 10 or 12 before the half. We also missed the dreaded front end of the 1 and 1's late in the first half to help them come back.

4)1993 - We beat G-town in the final of the NIT. Had a nice season in the Big 10 and finished 10-8 I believe. Most were surprised we got snubbed. I don't remember what our RPI was, but we got robbed. Really nice team with Randy Carter, Voshon Leonard, Ernest Nzigamazabo and who else?

5)1998 - We won the NIT again although it was later "vacated" - I really liked that team. Miles Tarver, Sam, Eric Harris, Quincy Lewis and the JUCO transfer Alexander. Got off to a slow start that season because Courtney James and Charles Thomas were both kicked off the team. Then Eric Harris and Alexander got hot in the post season and Sam and Quincy were steady throughout. We had to beat #1 MSU in the 1st Big Ten Tourney just to become NIT eligible and Eric Harris came up huge hitting about 5 threes. I actually attended 2 NIT games against UAB and Marquette and we rolled into NYC playing really well. I remember beating Tark the Shark in OT to get to the final. I think we beat PSU in the final and it wasn't very close. Alexander was the MVP of the Final Four.

Other great seasons better than the current season: 1980 NIT Finalists. 1989 Sweet 16 team.

This season has a chance to surpass them all....but so far, I wouldn't rank this anywhere near the top 5.

9-9 in the big 10 in 1993. Just FYI.

But I'm wondering when making the NIT final became a better season than making the NCAA tournament and winning games there?

Of the ones you listed 1 was better (cheated, 16-2 in Big10), 2 (14-4 in big10) and 3 (11-7 in big10) better. 4 (9-9 in the big 10) nope. 5 nope (and cheated. Side note, Gophers were 6-10 and won in the NIT final. Last season gophers were 6-12 and lost in the NIT final. Was last year better than this one?) 1980 and and an NIT? Nope. 1989 yes.

 

[Cayman]

Not sure how that attitude impacts recruiting, but I agree about the first part.

I think on behalf of the University of Minnesota we should file a petition to only play the conference schedule and conference tournament. Nothing else matters.

Considering everyone toots the "no conference records above .500" horn, and Tubby went 12-10 in 2009-10, I think it's safe to assume that the Big Ten tournament doesn't count, unless of course it's being used to spin a tie for 7th as finishing 9th outright.

I saw you had a post earlier about most GHers wanting an 0-13 non-conference record, 18-0 conference record, and a first round tourney loss, and it got me to thinking that most would be happy if we basically had Wisconsin's season this year. We could trade wins over UCLA, Memphis, Florida State, and Stanford for wins over Northwestern, Nebraska, Iowa, and Purdue. 8-5 non-conference, 12-6 Big Ten, first round tourney loss.

 

[scher215]

Considering everyone toots the "no conference records above .500" horn, and Tubby went 12-10 in 2009-10, I think it's safe to assume that the Big Ten tournament doesn't count, unless of course it's being used to spin a tie for 7th as finishing 9th outright.

I saw you had a post earlier about most GHers wanting an 0-13 non-conference record, 18-0 conference record, and a first round tourney loss, and it got me to thinking that most would be happy if we basically had Wisconsin's season this year. We could trade wins over UCLA, Memphis, Florida State, and Stanford for wins over Northwestern, Nebraska, Iowa, and Purdue. 8-5 non-conference, 12-6 Big Ten, first round tourney loss.

Yup. Pretty much exactly right.

And with cheating years Clem finished above .500 in conference 5 of 13 years. Without cheating, 1 of 7 years.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I also cannot call this the best Gopher team in 23 years. My gut tells me that, if you could match up Clem's good teams against this year's Gopher team, Clem's teams would win nearly every game. Clem's teams had some grit that just seems to be lacking in this year's crew.

What drives me crazy about Tubby's tenure is the inconsistency. How can the same coach and same players look so good in beating an Indiana, and turn around and look so bad a few days later against Nebraska?

I just think that, for the long-term health of the program, the U would be better off with a younger, more high-energy coach who can appeal to today's recruits. I just don't think Tubby gets the AAU generation of players.

For the Tubby supporters, a hypothetical question: If Tubby stays, but none of the "Big 3" commit to the U, how hot will the hot seat get next year?

 

[goldengophers]

Considering everyone toots the "no conference records above .500" horn, and Tubby went 12-10 in 2009-10, I think it's safe to assume that the Big Ten tournament doesn't count, unless of course it's being used to spin a tie for 7th as finishing 9th outright.

I saw you had a post earlier about most GHers wanting an 0-13 non-conference record, 18-0 conference record, and a first round tourney loss, and it got me to thinking that most would be happy if we basically had Wisconsin's season this year. We could trade wins over UCLA, Memphis, Florida State, and Stanford for wins over Northwestern, Nebraska, Iowa, and Purdue. 8-5 non-conference, 12-6 Big Ten, first round tourney loss.

It get's you a 2nd round date with a 3 seed.