Best Minnesota season in 23 years

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Look, with regards to comparing to Wisconsin - much as I dislike their program - the comparison is silly. Yep, they lost in the first round this year. They've also made 15 straight appearances and, prior to this year, won 6 straight opening round games.

Also, comparing what "you'd rather have" is silly too. I'd be willing to bet there is a strong correlation between conference record and NCAA success.
 

What I think it boils down to (myself included) is the poor Big 10 finishes and the lack of good news regarding the Big 3. Anyone agree?
 



short ornery norwegian said:
I also cannot call this the best Gopher team in 23 years. My gut tells me that, if you could match up Clem's good teams against this year's Gopher team, Clem's teams would win nearly every game. Clem's teams had some grit that just seems to be lacking in this year's crew.

What drives me crazy about Tubby's tenure is the inconsistency. How can the same coach and same players look so good in beating an Indiana, and turn around and look so bad a few days later against Nebraska?

I just think that, for the long-term health of the program, the U would be better off with a younger, more high-energy coach who can appeal to today's recruits. I just don't think Tubby gets the AAU generation of players.

For the Tubby supporters, a hypothetical question: If Tubby stays, but none of the "Big 3" commit to the U, how hot will the hot seat get next year?
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Clem's team had such grit they were terrible on the road and only finished above .500 in conference once (11-7) legitimately?
 


GopherJake said:
Look, with regards to comparing to Wisconsin - much as I dislike their program - the comparison is silly. Yep, they lost in the first round this year. They've also made 15 straight appearances and, prior to this year, won 6 straight opening round games.

Also, comparing what "you'd rather have" is silly too. I'd be willing to bet there is a strong correlation between conference record and NCAA success.
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There probably is, but if you could only have one or the other. Which would you choose?

I'd take 8-10 in conference and a sweet 16 over a top 5 conference finish and a first round exit. JMO though. Some feel differently obviously.
 

scher215 said:
There probably is, but if you could only have one or the other. Which would you choose?

I'd take 8-10 in conference and a sweet 16 over a top 5 conference finish and a first round exit. JMO though. Some feel differently obviously.
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Yeah, ok, me too. I also bet (know) there is a strong correlation between sub-.500 Big Ten record and not making the tourney.

It's a false choice the VAST majority of time.
 

scher215 said:
There probably is, but if you could only have one or the other. Which would you choose?

I'd take 8-10 in conference and a sweet 16 over a top 5 conference finish and a first round exit. JMO though. Some feel differently obviously.
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Bo has never had a B1G record at or below .500 and has made 5 sweet 16's, what's the either or question again?
 




scher215 said:
Talking about the potential differences of this season. Not prior ones.
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I said our seeding would've been significantly better, one can conclude from Wisconsin's record alone under Ryan the strong correlation between B1G record, seeding and NCAA tournament success.
 

scher215 said:
Speaking of Bo Ryan I'd rather be in the round of 32 than be one and done. I'd also rather win pre-season tournaments and beat good teams in the non conference than not do that too.

The argument about Tubby centers on one thing. How much do you value big 10 record compared to the non conference schedule and the tournament? Those of us who value the non conference and the tournament are waiting until the end of the season before sealing Tubby's fate.
In this order:
1. The NCAA tournament
2. The Big Ten Regular season
3. Non conference schedule
4. The BTT
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goldengophers said:
I said our seeding would've been significantly better, one can conclude from Wisconsin's record alone under Ryan the strong correlation between B1G record, seeding and NCAA tournament success.
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Is that why Bo Ryan has been to the final four so many times and never lost to a lower seed than him nearly every year?

The fact is that Bo Ryan underperforms in the tournament compared to his Big 10 success. To some that's fine. To me I'd prefer a coach who performs in the tournament equal or better than their big 10 success. So far Tubby has not done that. Waiting to see what he's got for us this year. This thing isn't over just yet.

If the Gophers make the final four and people still want to fire Tubby because he's never been above .500 in the Big 10. I'd be a little concerned about our fan base / media.
 

bemidjigopher said:
scher215 said:
Speaking of Bo Ryan I'd rather be in the round of 32 than be one and done. I'd also rather win pre-season tournaments and beat good teams in the non conference than not do that too.

The argument about Tubby centers on one thing. How much do you value big 10 record compared to the non conference schedule and the tournament? Those of us who value the non conference and the tournament are waiting until the end of the season before sealing Tubby's fate.
In this order:
1. The NCAA tournament
2. The Big Ten Regular season
3. Non conference schedule
4. The BTT
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I'm a playoff nut, so I go with this order.
1. NCAA Tournament/whatever other crap postseason tournament we might qualify for
2. BTT
3. Big Ten Standings
4. Record vs. Wisconsin and Iowa

I don't care about non-conference except in as much as it affects our qualification for and seeding in the NCAA tournament, it carries no independent value for me.

But, to assess our improvement since last year, we have unequivocally performed better on the NCAA postseason, we performed worse in BTT, we performed bettet in terms of Big Ten record and standings, and we improved against our rivals. For me, the only thing I have to be really upset about this year relative to last year was that embarrassing showing in the first round of the BTT.
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bleedsmaroonandgold said:
bemidjigopher said:
I'm a playoff nut, so I go with this order.
1. NCAA Tournament/whatever other crap postseason tournament we might qualify for
2. BTT
3. Big Ten Standings
4. Record vs. Wisconsin and Iowa

I don't care about non-conference except in as much as it affects our qualification for and seeding in the NCAA tournament, it carries no independent value for me.

But, to assess our improvement since last year, we have unequivocally performed better on the NCAA postseason, we performed worse in BTT, we performed bettet in terms of Big Ten record and standings, and we improved against our rivals. For me, the only thing I have to be really upset about this year relative to last year was that embarrassing showing in the first round of the BTT.
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Hooray for incremental improvement in year 6 with a roster this talented and tied for 7th in the B1G. Today determines the success of this season and the future of our coach.
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goldengophers said:
bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Hooray for incremental improvement in year 6 with a roster this talented and tied for 7th in the B1G. Today determines the success of this season and the future of our coach.
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You consider going from the NIT runner up to the round of 32 incremental? We went from the 70th most successful team in the country to one of the top 32. At a bare minimum, we passed up 38 teams.
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scher215 said:
If the Gophers make the final four and people still want to fire Tubby because he's never been above .500 in the Big 10. I'd be a little concerned about our fan base / media.
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I'm pretty sure that would happen...so be worried. Heck, it would be a great problem to have... :)
 

The goal is to always do well in the NCAA tourney, this isn't football our championship is actually settled on the court. The Big Ten regular season is still very important, but at the end of the day, you want play well their so you can get a good seed in the dance. The conference tourney in a major conference is really more for show and marketing for the schools its rare that a team will turn their season around in a major conference in four games in four days so hence why the ooc schedule is more important. A good ooc can set you up well in SOS and RPI, and can make up for a mediocre conference record i.e the gophers. It's why we're here and not Iowa, but that's typically the exception not the norm. Point is everything is done in college basketball to get into the dance that is the minimum goal. I'm sure Wisconsin and Georgetown would trade their in conference success to still be playing today.
 

Here's something interesting I read in GW's MN-Fla preview. Ironically, a win today and poor showing in the Sweet 16 could make it *more* palatable to can Tubby at the end of this year.

  • In addition to another $50,000 of NCAA tournament appearance & performance bonuses (bringing the total to $200,000) for Tubby Smith, if the Gophers win today one year will also be added to his contract (term end of April 2017 would become April 2018).

  • A one year extension would mean that Smith's termination fee would never go below the stated maximum of $2.5 million at any time during his employment under the current agreement.
 

Tubtastic said:
The OP has a point. Although I am frustrated with Tubby, until this program actually invests in itself like its a Cadillac (practice facility, etc) instead of a Ford, we should be very happy to have a Tubby caliber coach (as opposed to another Monson).
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Yes, I love being used as a retirement annuity! Hope we get to the Elite Eight and someone else hires him away. In some ways, thought, it would be poetic justice for him to coach the team that he constructed next year with neither a power forward nor a backup center.

Anyhow, beat Florida and we'll worry about the rest later
 

scher215 said:
Clem's team had such grit they were terrible on the road and only finished above .500 in conference once (11-7) legitimately?
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Clem hater! Funny how the ACC academic scandal story has been swept under the rug
 

Is it true that if Tubby gets to the sweet sixteen he gets another year added to his contract? That was stated this morning on WCCO.
 

GopherJake said:
Here's something interesting I read in GW's MN-Fla preview. Ironically, a win today and poor showing in the Sweet 16 could make it *more* palatable to can Tubby at the end of this year.

  • In addition to another $50,000 of NCAA tournament appearance & performance bonuses (bringing the total to $200,000) for Tubby Smith, if the Gophers win today one year will also be added to his contract (term end of April 2017 would become April 2018).

  • A one year extension would mean that Smith's termination fee would never go below the stated maximum of $2.5 million at any time during his employment under the current agreement.
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Sorry, missed your post.
 

I completely agree with you. I rarely bring up Tubby's status, and it wasn't until this year that I really started doubting him. I'm just happy we're playing today, but since dpo made a pretty irritating and hypocritical post, I felt like responding. Until we start at least building a practice facility, I'm not sure that we can do much better than Tubby.

ethomasp31 said:
I honestly don't think anyone would mind having this discussion AT THE RIGHT TIME. But the "we don't have good in bounds plays...FIRE TUBBY", "Williams hasn't progressed...FIRE TUBBY", "Austin can't shoot...FIRE TUBBY" and other crap like that gets really old. If you are a high school player living in the Twin Cities and you continually hear our fan base talking like that, why the hell would you go to Minnesota?
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Why is that the comparison? We aren't in the sweet 16 (yet). If we get crushed today, I'd say the top 5 BT finish and 1st round exit is a better yr than beating a team missing their best player in the first round.

scher215 said:
There probably is, but if you could only have one or the other. Which would you choose?

I'd take 8-10 in conference and a sweet 16 over a top 5 conference finish and a first round exit. JMO though. Some feel differently obviously.
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underground629 said:
Why is that the comparison? We aren't in the sweet 16 (yet). If we get crushed today, I'd say the top 5 BT finish and 1st round exit is a better yr than beating a team missing their best player in the first round.
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Was more speaking in generalities. But see your point.
 

underground629 said:
dpo, care to address this? You've suddenly changed your mind because we won a tournament game?
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I'm not 100% certain, but I'm fairly confident that I never said anything like that. I'm fairly confident that "Gopher" Golden Eagle is either misremembering or just plain making it up.

And how is anything I've said "hypocritical"?
 

If we lose today, this season is a failure. Period.
 


Failure.

If you want to use criteria to define this as the best season in 23 years, that's your prerogative. For me, these last 3 seasons have been close to the 3 most frustrating I've endured. Great start, another collapse.

I like Tubby as a man. He is a good person and did move the program forward. But if they can lock-up a guy they like, I say send Tubby packing. No search committees though. Fire & hire or keep him.
 

The hypocrite part of my post was contingent upon GW's post being accurate. If you never actually said that then you can disregard what I said.


dpodoll68 said:
I'm not 100% certain, but I'm fairly confident that I never said anything like that. I'm fairly confident that "Gopher" Golden Eagle is either misremembering or just plain making it up.

And how is anything I've said "hypocritical"?
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