Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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Another example of why Ben Johnson is a disaster…Jerome Tang ladies and gentlemen

https://247sports.com/Article/Kansa...al-Coach-of-the-Year-candidate-202110557/Amp/

TLDR:
-hired by @ Kansas State this year after 19 years as an assistant at Baylor
-they are 13-1 (with lots of good wins) and just jumped to 11th in the AP poll *wins against Baylor, Texas, West Virginia, Nebraska, Wichita State, LSU, Nevada, Rhode Island, Cal)
-only 1 player who scored double digits returned to the team from last year
-rebuilt through portal
-landed a top 20 recruiting class
-they are winning by an average of 13.5 points per game
-Kansas state was predicted to finish last in the big12

Nothing to see here
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Another example of why Ben Johnson is a disaster…Jerome Tang ladies and gentlemen

https://247sports.com/Article/Kansa...al-Coach-of-the-Year-candidate-202110557/Amp/

TLDR:
-hired by @ Kansas State this year after 19 years as an assistant at Baylor
-they are 13-1 (with lots of good wins) and just jumped to 11th in the AP poll *wins against Baylor, Texas, West Virginia, Nebraska, Wichita State, LSU, Nevada, Rhode Island, Cal)
-only 1 player who scored double digits returned to the team from last year
-rebuilt through portal
-landed a top 20 recruiting class
-they are winning by an average of 13.5 points per game
-Kansas state was predicted to finish last in the big12

Nothing to see here
Click to expand...
cmon man- Kansas State is a blue blood program. Easy Peasy
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Another example of why Ben Johnson is a disaster…Jerome Tang ladies and gentlemen

https://247sports.com/Article/Kansa...al-Coach-of-the-Year-candidate-202110557/Amp/

TLDR:
-hired by @ Kansas State this year after 19 years as an assistant at Baylor
-they are 13-1 (with lots of good wins) and just jumped to 11th in the AP poll *wins against Baylor, Texas, West Virginia, Nebraska, Wichita State, LSU, Nevada, Rhode Island, Cal)
-only 1 player who scored double digits returned to the team from last year
-rebuilt through portal
-landed a top 20 recruiting class
-they are winning by an average of 13.5 points per game
-Kansas state was predicted to finish last in the big12

Nothing to see here
Click to expand...

The amount of coaches who are having success in year 1 or 2 at non traditional schools is exceedingly high at this point. Meanwhile, the Gophers are 235 in the NET and have lost 12 in a row against P6 competition.
 


Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Another example of why Ben Johnson is a disaster…Jerome Tang ladies and gentlemen

https://247sports.com/Article/Kansa...al-Coach-of-the-Year-candidate-202110557/Amp/

TLDR:
-hired by @ Kansas State this year after 19 years as an assistant at Baylor
-they are 13-1 (with lots of good wins) and just jumped to 11th in the AP poll *wins against Baylor, Texas, West Virginia, Nebraska, Wichita State, LSU, Nevada, Rhode Island, Cal)
-only 1 player who scored double digits returned to the team from last year
-rebuilt through portal
-landed a top 20 recruiting class
-they are winning by an average of 13.5 points per game
-Kansas state was predicted to finish last in the big12

Nothing to see here
Click to expand...
Of course, there's no telling how much of these kinds of success are completely clean and on the up and up. At this point, though, this is one of many such examples in today's game. For someone like Coyle, who should have been and presumably was very concerned about declining attendance and relevance, a quick success like these would have been just what the doctor ordered. You can't tell me he's oblivious of what these other programs are doing and not concerned about the continuing attendance and apathy problems--not to mention concerned about potential back-to-back last-place finishes. Has this program ever finished last two years in a row? I'd guess not.
 

Gophers7633 said:
The amount of coaches who are having success in year 1 or 2 at non traditional schools is exceedingly high at this point. Meanwhile, the Gophers are 235 in the NET and have lost 12 in a row against P6 competition.
Click to expand...

It has never been easier to win in your first few years as a coach. And if you don't, recruiting becomes extremely difficult in a hurry.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Of course, there's no telling how much of these kinds of success are completely clean and on the up and up. At this point, though, this is one of many such examples in today's game. For someone like Coyle, who should have been and presumably was very concerned about declining attendance and relevance, a quick success like these would have been just what the doctor ordered. You can't tell me he's oblivious of what these other programs are doing and not concerned about the continuing attendance and apathy problems--not to mention concerned about potential back-to-back last-place finishes. Has this program ever finished last two years in a row? I'd guess not.
Click to expand...
Clean and on the up n up?? This is 2023 cheating is fucking allowed....
 




Off-GridTNgopher said:
Clean and on the up n up?? This is 2023 cheating is fucking allowed....
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I think what you're saying is that things are fast and loose and that things that used to be illegal are now legal. That said, Michigan football is an example of how there are still rules, and where there are still rules, there'll be rule breakers. People are always going to be pushing the limits and cheating. Some of these immediate successes might be very dirty...or not.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Another example of why Ben Johnson is a disaster…Jerome Tang ladies and gentlemen

https://247sports.com/Article/Kansa...al-Coach-of-the-Year-candidate-202110557/Amp/

TLDR:
-hired by @ Kansas State this year after 19 years as an assistant at Baylor
-they are 13-1 (with lots of good wins) and just jumped to 11th in the AP poll *wins against Baylor, Texas, West Virginia, Nebraska, Wichita State, LSU, Nevada, Rhode Island, Cal)
-only 1 player who scored double digits returned to the team from last year
-rebuilt through portal
-landed a top 20 recruiting class
-they are winning by an average of 13.5 points per game
-Kansas state was predicted to finish last in the big12

Nothing to see here
Click to expand...
Yeah but none of those transfers were his recruits, he was forced by the legal system to take them. Freshmen are the only thing that count. KState is really going to regret not being terrible during their rebuild.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
It has never been easier to win in your first few years as a coach. And if you don't, recruiting becomes extremely difficult in a hurry.
Click to expand...
Do you have a recruiting example? I don't buy that recruiting becomes more difficult if your program isn't winning in the prior year. Seems like basketball recruiting is basically all NIL and relationships. Same with football I think.
 

Bad Gopher said:
I think what you're saying is that things are fast and loose and that things that used to be illegal are now legal. That said, Michigan football is an example of how there are still rules, and where there are still rules, there'll be rule breakers. People are always going to be pushing the limits and cheating. Some of these immediate successes might be very dirty...or not.
Click to expand...
Think of it more as the speed limit. Everyone breaks the law every time they head out the door: most infractions are so minor nobody realizes they are happening, some push it too far and get warnings, some are clearly going 85 in a 55 while late for work and get slapped, a few turn it into a high speed chase and get into serious trouble. All these people are smart enough to hire a good attorney who says "look, whatever happened the penalty needs to be negotiated or we will fight this to the bitter end and you risk being embarrassed and getting no conviction at all". This results in a much reduced penalty if not a "taken off your record" in a year if they have no other infractions.

Then, there is one guy who turns himself in for going 2 over, asks for the full punishment to show everyone how righteous he is, The judge, realizing he followed the annoying guy into work who was blocking traffic going 45mph in the fast lane decides to throw the book at the dumb ass. (This would be the University of Minnesota). Then, after proving to himself how ethical he is -he takes another job in another city and lets the fans pay the penalty for the next 10 years.

(end of story)
 




Gopher Teeth said:
Yeah but none of those transfers were his recruits, he was forced by the legal system to take them. Freshmen are the only thing that count. KState is really going to regret not being terrible during their rebuild.
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Stop playing chess when CBJ apologists are playing checkers! As a fan, I would hate to be forced to watch a winning program sooner than 4 or 5 years down the road
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Do you have a recruiting example? I don't buy that recruiting becomes more difficult if your program isn't winning in the prior year. Seems like basketball recruiting is basically all NIL and relationships. Same with football I think.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with you, but it's hard to find examples because the free transfer is so new. If the Gophers finish last again this season, Ben is going to have to win at higher level next season just to keep his job. There's not many examples of coaches being this bad at this level and keeping their job beyond a 3rd season unless they show good progress, so you have to factor in that in as well.

Plus players being able to freely go to teams for more playing time, NIL, or to a winning program, makes recruiting and keeping players difficult if you're not winning. There's a reason why the highest rated MN players continue to leave the state and that's because the Gophers have been bad for a long time. And I'm not suggesting they are ever going to land all of them because they won't even if they were winning. But being even worse than they have been recently is unlikely to help.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Stop playing chess when CBJ apologists are playing checkers! As a fan, I would hate to be forced to watch a winning program sooner than 4 or 5 years down the road
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Let it all out... (does someone have a tissue for blanket guy?)
 


golfing18now said:
I think we will find out how good of a recruiter he is this spring when he needs to convince his current players to stay after two very poor seasons, record wise.
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Bingo. That is the problem. After 2 years like this- he is going to have to lay out an amazing sales pitch to get the portal transfers he needs AND to sign the fall 2024 class. Whatever happens between now and the end of the year is going to be all they see. IF they can somehow finish with a flurry of wins - showing promise, then it gets much better for him.

"This is what I have done in the past" is not part of his sales pitch.
 

golfing18now said:
I think we will find out how good of a recruiter he is this spring when he needs to convince his current players to stay after two very poor seasons, record wise.
Click to expand...

I actually don't see this as a big issue. I don't see any of the freshman leaving after one season. I also don't think Garcia, Cooper, or Battle can go anywhere unless they grad transfer, and 2 of them are from MN anyways. If anyone besides that leaves, it won't move the needle much for next season.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I actually don't see this as a big issue. I don't see any of the freshman leaving after one season. I also don't think Garcia, Cooper, or Battle can go anywhere unless they grad transfer, and 2 of them are from MN anyways. If anyone besides that leaves, it won't move the needle much for next season.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I don't think there will be an exodus and that wouldn't be a problem if we felt that what we have, plus the guys already signed was enough. The problem is that we need a minimum of one really good portal guard to make this team be solid next year. Then there is the 2024 class which continues our "rebuild" for the long term future. Those recruits also will see no more games than what we play this winter.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I actually don't see this as a big issue. I don't see any of the freshman leaving after one season. I also don't think Garcia, Cooper, or Battle can go anywhere unless they grad transfer, and 2 of them are from MN anyways. If anyone besides that leaves, it won't move the needle much for next season.
Click to expand...

You might be right. I would actually be surprised if we don't see at least one of the freshman leave but that isn't based on any intel.
 

golfing18now said:
You might be right. I would actually be surprised if we don't see at least one of the freshman leave but that isn't based on any intel.
Click to expand...
Wouldn’t it be great if the Gophers could work out a trade with a guard-rich program that needs a big?

There’s 5 new players next year with only one player leaving at a position that none of those players play as their primary spot. I, too, would be surprised if no one leaves, just based on math.
 

If Thompson is back it will be a major surprise, IMO.

I'm really curious to see how the Ihnen/Fox situation works itself out. Hoping they somehow get mostly healthy, but we're taking a giant leap of faith if we expect either or both of those guys to be major contributors. They're dealing with back-to-back season-ending knee injuries, not to mention neither has proven (or had the chance to prove) they're bonafide Big Ten-level talents. It's OK to be HOPEFUL, but that's dangerous to assume given our current status as the Big Ten's clear cellar dweller. WE NEED MAJOR CONTRIBUTORS currently not on the 2022-23 playing roster.

Ben definitely has some difficult roster decisions to make in the offseason.
 
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CPTMidnight said:
Think of it more as the speed limit. Everyone breaks the law every time they head out the door: most infractions are so minor nobody realizes they are happening, some push it too far and get warnings, some are clearly going 85 in a 55 while late for work and get slapped, a few turn it into a high speed chase and get into serious trouble. All these people are smart enough to hire a good attorney who says "look, whatever happened the penalty needs to be negotiated or we will fight this to the bitter end and you risk being embarrassed and getting no conviction at all". This results in a much reduced penalty if not a "taken off your record" in a year if they have no other infractions.

Then, there is one guy who turns himself in for going 2 over, asks for the full punishment to show everyone how righteous he is, The judge, realizing he followed the annoying guy into work who was blocking traffic going 45mph in the fast lane decides to throw the book at the dumb ass. (This would be the University of Minnesota). Then, after proving to himself how ethical he is -he takes another job in another city and lets the fans pay the penalty for the next 10 years.

(end of story)
Click to expand...
What Clem and others did was horrifically beyond "2 over" - good effort, though.
 
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Gophers1992 said:
It's crazy that people can't distinguish the severity of academic fraud vs something silly like a player getting free tattoos.
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"Everybody's doing it, so we shouldn't get in trouble for doing it too" is also a piss-poor defense, particularly when everybody is indeed not engaging in coordinated severe academic fraud.
 
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dpodoll68 said:
What Clem and others did was horrifically beyond "2 over" - good effort, though.
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In the moment, sure.

10-20 years from now, we'll look back on that the same way we now look back upon Reggie Bush and USC. Were they "wrong", or were they just "ahead of their time"?
 


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