Ben Johnson is a Disaster

[goldengophers]

None of what you say is untrue, but you must also understand that if overall record was a primary criterion for retaining Ben after this season, he would have been dismissed last season.

Untrue, buyout buy down.

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

Don't be dumb. This team will be competitive in the Big Ten. Probably not fighting for an NCAA bid.....but not nearly as bad as the trolls in this thread think.

Not coming at you with this response, but let's take a second to collect our thoughts here...

a) The gophers have more talent than last year but still lack ball handlers with Big10 proven ability (Hawkins only has real experience at lower level with a few handful of games...and he did make a bunch of dumb plays today)

b) bad coaching still is happening

c) Than Mizzou team was not that good. They are predicted to finish 8th in the SEC this year (HERE). I didn't go to the game but watched every minute live and MIZZOU looked like a team from the SWAC or some small conference with limited size and not a ton of athleticism (outside of Vanover who really did nothing as predicted). Even with the historically hot shooting to start the game, we were only up by a few at halftime...where was the defense? Memphis murdered Mizzou a few days ago and they lost a lot of talent from last year.

They will need to dramatically improve in order to not be dead last in the B10 this year (coaching, defense, shot selection, dribbling, time management).

 

[CPTMidnight]

For the Ben Johnson apologists, he could go .500 in the Big...

The imaginary "Ben Johnson apologist". Many an argument has been won against those guys.

 

[bga1]

Wait a second, this thread was brought back to life by someone attempting a "told you so" during this game like the pathetic GopherHole tweet?

For the Ben Johnson apologists, he could go .500 in the Big Ten this year and his Big Ten record after 3 years would be 16-43. That's a winning percentage of 27.12. That would still qualify him as a disaster in any reasonable discussion. Excactly nobody would have accepted that when he was hired. You don't make up for the first last place finish in 30 years followed up by the worst season in program history by having one average B1G season much less by winning a random game or two.

I’m ticked about last night and it was 100% on Ben. That said - if he goes .500 in the Big Ten … hope is restored and he would be in similar position with Clem after 3 years. This is the year to focus on, not the last two. Last night he stunk. Period.

 

[formerlybis]

I think people are bummed that the Gophers snatched defeat from the jaw of victory, but zoom back out a little.

Last night was/could be more of a validation that the offensive and defensive efficiency are making strides in the right direction, at least against the one team out of 11 non-cons that has a pulse. I'm more inclined to disagree with the disaster label at the moment. But, it's a tenuous disagreement,,,

 

[howeda7]

Don't be dumb.
The barn will ne empty.

Less than 8K last night for a game that had some buzz. Will be painfully empty the rest of the non-conference and probably under 10K for everyone except Wisconsin and Iowa.

 

[bc2211]

I think people are bummed that the Gophers snatched defeat from the jaw of victory, but zoom back out a little.

Last night was/could be more of a validation that the offensive and defensive efficiency are making strides in the right direction, at least against the one team out of 11 non-cons that has a pulse. I'm more inclined to disagree with the disaster label at the moment. But, it's a tenuous disagreement,,,

Scouting report is out, though: slow the game down and make us run half court offense.

 

[howeda7]

Scouting report is out, though: slow the game down and make us run half court offense.

And make our coaching staff adjust.

 

[WoodburyTim]

You mock me because I'm an actual fan. You're a bandwagoner who hops on the forum to taunt actual fans after a loss.

You must be a really cool dude. Guessing two aftermarket exhausts and truck nuts.

To be fair I would also hop on to comment after big wins but….

And I can’t say I own a truck, but probably closer to that than riding the tandem bicycle with the hubby like yourself. Hahaha.

 

[Casual_fan]

I'll admit.....that was a faceplant. And I think Ben Johnson has a lot to explain about that collapse.

Doesn't change the fact that this team is going to be much better than expected. And the troll crowd is probably going to hide when things are going well.....come out of their holes when things go bad.

The team will be playing against opponents and their own head coach what a up hill battle

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

The imaginary "Ben Johnson apologist". Many an argument has been won against those guys.

Huh? There are a number of them. They bump threads when we beat UTSA and in right before epic meltdowns. They constantly move the goal posts for him - they'll never be able to tell you what is a reasonable expectation. One of them is posting in this thread that he should get another season if we show improvement from last year - - so what? 3 Big 10 wins?

There aren't many of them because you'd have to be mentally ill or stupid to still dig in, but there are certainly Ben Johnson apologists.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

To be fair I would also hop on to comment after big wins but….

And I can’t say I own a truck, but probably closer to that than riding the tandem bicycle with the hubby like yourself. Hahaha.

Stocker uses his mom's car when she lets him, seriously.

 

[stocker08]

To be fair I would also hop on to comment after big wins but….

And I can’t say I own a truck, but probably closer to that than riding the tandem bicycle with the hubby like yourself. Hahaha.

Lame joke. I'm embarrassed for you.

Stocker uses his mom's car when she lets him, seriously.

Woodbury Tim and Bob-Loblaw.......two of gopherhole's biggest bottom feeders.

 

[CPTMidnight]

Huh? There are a number of them. They bump threads when we beat UTSA and in right before epic meltdowns. They constantly move the goal posts for him - they'll never be able to tell you what is a reasonable expectation. One of them is posting in this thread that he should get another season if we show improvement from last year - - so what? 3 Big 10 wins?

There aren't many of them because you'd have to be mentally ill or stupid to still dig in, but there are certainly Ben Johnson apologists.

I think of an apologist as someone who is arguing for Ben. For example "Ben is awesome, he is going to turn the program around, give him time, Hall of Famer, Ben is the MAN - you just don't know..., He is going to crush it - eventually, You are totally wrong - Ben is the solution" There is nobody here in that category. I am not sure I ever remember a post like that...

Instead the best he can hope for is "[Gulp], crap!, really! - he is the new coach??, that decision was a bit underwhelming, OK - I have no control over who is coach so lets see what he can do, I support the team and the coach as they are working through this. Good win Ben - color me excited! -Finally some potential, Horrible loss/coaching Ben I when are you going to get your act together!, I sure hope they can figure this out. A single game does not represent the entire season so lets give it time before we grade the season"

See, these are called "Fans". They are not to be confused with "Ben Apologists"

The mythical Ben Apologist does not now exist (If they ever really did).

 

[DarthGopher]

I think of an apologist as someone who is arguing for Ben. For example "Ben is awesome, he is going to turn the program around, give him time, Hall of Famer, Ben is the MAN - you just don't know..., He is going to crush it - eventually, You are totally wrong - Ben is the solution" There is nobody here in that category. I am not sure I ever remember a post like that...

Instead the best he can hope for is "[Gulp], crap!, really! - he is the new coach??, that decision was a bit underwhelming, OK - I have no control over who is coach so lets see what he can do, I support the team and the coach as they are working through this. Good win Ben - color me excited! -Finally some potential, Horrible loss/coaching Ben I when are you going to get your act together!, I sure hope they can figure this out. A single game does not represent the entire season so lets give it time before we grade the season"

See, these are called "Fans". They are not to be confused with "Ben Apologists"

The mythical Ben Apologist does not now exist (If they ever really did).

It's almost like you have no control over it so you might as well hope for the best and see what happens. If it doesn't correct itself, we most likely are looking at a new coach for 24-25.

Seems reasonable. Definitely a lot less stressful.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

I think of an apologist as someone who is arguing for Ben. For example "Ben is awesome, he is going to turn the program around, give him time, Hall of Famer, Ben is the MAN - you just don't know..., He is going to crush it - eventually, You are totally wrong - Ben is the solution" There is nobody here in that category. I am not sure I ever remember a post like that...

Instead the best he can hope for is "[Gulp], crap!, really! - he is the new coach??, that decision was a bit underwhelming, OK - I have no control over who is coach so lets see what he can do, I support the team and the coach as they are working through this. Good win Ben - color me excited! -Finally some potential, Horrible loss/coaching Ben I when are you going to get your act together!, I sure hope they can figure this out. A single game does not represent the entire season so lets give it time before we grade the season"

See, these are called "Fans". They are not to be confused with "Ben Apologists"

The mythical Ben Apologist does not now exist (If they ever really did).

Excellent post! I think you captured the thinking of most around here who aren't carrying pitchforks. A lot of these people wanted him fired after last season. That would have been really bad form and likely would have made this a less attractive destination to prospective coaching candidates. I haven't seen a Big Ten coach in at least the last 20 years who has been fired after 2 years for performance. I've seen two fired after three years so I think that should be the minimum tenure especially for a first-time head coach who took over under difficult circumstances. There's a reason why that buyout was set pretty high after two seasons: it was never intended to be operable.

 

[25mkg]

Do you care if this is a better team than the past two years? You think burning it to the ground and restarting is better? Rather than seeing how the young players gel?



You seriously think this team is about the same as last year?

The players and depth may ba better, but Ben is just as bad.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I have been a Ben Johnson supporter - based mainly on my feeling that Ben seems like a decent guy, and I hoped that he could be successful here.

I now admit that I am not as optimistic. this team is going to have to show major improvement this season - at least get to 7-13 or 8-12 in the B1G, and/or make some kind of run in the conference tournament. If they can do that, maybe Johnson keeps his job.

BUT - I have one absolute demand. If Johnson is fired, I want someone to tie Coyle to a chair or lock him in a closet and keep him from holding a press conference. if Johnson is fired, put out a press release. I don't want Coyle anywhere near a camera or a microphone. the last thing the U needs is a repeat of that disastrous performance by Coyle after the Lindsay Whalen firing (excuse me...mutual decision.....ya sure).

 

[bc2211]

I have been a Ben Johnson supporter - based mainly on my feeling that Ben seems like a decent guy, and I hoped that he could be successful here.

I now admit that I am not as optimistic. this team is going to have to show major improvement this season - at least get to 7-13 or 8-12 in the B1G, and/or make some kind of run in the conference tournament. If they can do that, maybe Johnson keeps his job.

BUT - I have one absolute demand. If Johnson is fired, I want someone to tie Coyle to a chair or lock him in a closet and keep him from holding a press conference. if Johnson is fired, put out a press release. I don't want Coyle anywhere near a camera or a microphone. the last thing the U needs is a repeat of that disastrous performance by Coyle after the Lindsay Whalen firing (excuse me...mutual decision.....ya sure).

Fwiw I’m a pretty big mbb and fb fan and have next to no idea what happened with Whalen. I think the only damage an AD can do to a program that’s been in the gutter the last two years is hire another dud. No one is paying attention to this program right now.

 

[25mkg]

Excellent post! I think you captured the thinking of most around here who aren't carrying pitchforks. A lot of these people wanted him fired after last season. That would have been really bad form and likely would have made this a less attractive destination to prospective coaching candidates. I haven't seen a Big Ten coach in at least the last 20 years who has been fired after 2 years for performance. I've seen two fired after three yea

rs so I think that should be the minimum tenure especially for a first-time head coach who took over under difficult circumstances. There's a reason why that buyout was set pretty high after two seasons: it was never intended to be operable.

...2 years of LAST PLACE performance...

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Fwiw I’m a pretty big mbb and fb fan and have next to no idea what happened with Whalen. I think the only damage an AD can do to a program that’s been in the gutter the last two years is hire another dud. No one is paying attention to this program right now.

as far as Whalen - Coyle came out and said that it was a "mutual decision" for Whalen to leave. Whalen has since indicated that she was not given a choice and she contradicted several of Coyle's statements. So you can be generous and say Coyle misspoke - or you can say he flat-out lied.

my point is that Coyle may be justified in firing Johnson. I just don't want him holding another press conference, because every time Coyle gets in front of a camera, he comes off looking worse.

 

[bc2211]

as far as Whalen - Coyle came out and said that it was a "mutual decision" for Whalen to leave. Whalen has since indicated that she was not given a choice and she contradicted several of Coyle's statements. So you can be generous and say Coyle misspoke - or you can say he flat-out lied.

my point is that Coyle may be justified in firing Johnson. I just don't want him holding another press conference, because every time Coyle gets in front of a camera, he comes off looking worse.

I get it. Haven’t seen anyone sing his praises to say the least.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

I now admit that I am not as optimistic. this team is going to have to show major improvement this season - at least get to 7-13 or 8-12 in the B1G, and/or make some kind of run in the conference tournament. If they can do that, maybe Johnson keeps his job.

I'd say it's highly probable Johnson keeps his job (at least for another year) if one of those outcomes occurs. There's one very important question that, surprisingly, I haven't seen discussed here that much. How much will the U be willing to pay Johnson's successor? Will they break their recent tradition of paying bottom-of-the-league compensation in order to attract a coach with a demonstrated track record of success like Penn State finally did after Shrewsberry left? Mike Roads' compensation has been reported at $3.4 million this season.

I have a suspicion that the U may not be willing to do that especially while having to make a buyout (even a modest one by P6 standards). If they want to pay someone $1.95 million, they might as well keep Johnson in the job if the team is at least over .500 this season.

 

[Holy Man]

I'd say it's highly probable Johnson keeps his job (at least for another year) if one of those outcomes occurs. There's one very important question that, surprisingly, I haven't seen discussed here that much. How much will the U be willing to pay Johnson's successor? Will they break their recent tradition of paying bottom-of-the-league compensation in order to attract a coach with a demonstrated track record of success like Penn State finally did after Shrewsberry left? Mike Roads' compensation has been reported at $3.4 million this season.

I have a suspicion that the U may not be willing to do that especially while having to make a buyout (even a modest one by P6 standards). If they want to pay someone $1.95 million, they might as well keep Johnson in the job if the team is at least over .500 this season.

Sadly, you’re probably right. Mens basketball has been ignored for nearly 20 years now.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

...2 years of LAST PLACE performance...

Same thing Eddy Jordan did at Rutgers and he got three years. Todd Lickliter got three years and his teams were terrible (at least two of them were; a third had a losing season but wasn't that far below .500). Fred Hoiberg's teams won 7 games each of his first two seasons and 10 wins in his third. His fourth season was only .500 and he's still there for a 5th year.

Johnson wasn't going to be fired after his second year. Only some dullards who post here believed that he might be. There was a reason why a school as cheap as this one is when it comes to paying basketball coaches set his buyout so high after his second year (the provision was never going to be applicable).

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

Sadly, you’re probably right. Mens basketball has been ignored for nearly 20 years now.

Well, I think they paid Tubby pretty well at the time but Coyle seems like the Jack Benny of athletic directors. Of course, Jack Benny's cheapness was an act for comedic value.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Well, I think they paid Tubby pretty well at the time but Coyle seems like the Jack Benny of athletic directors. Of course, Jack Benny's cheapness was an act for comedic value.

I think Coyle would be more than willing to spend as much money as he’s allowed.

 

[DarthGopher]

I have been a Ben Johnson supporter - based mainly on my feeling that Ben seems like a decent guy, and I hoped that he could be successful here.

I now admit that I am not as optimistic. this team is going to have to show major improvement this season - at least get to 7-13 or 8-12 in the B1G, and/or make some kind of run in the conference tournament. If they can do that, maybe Johnson keeps his job.

BUT - I have one absolute demand. If Johnson is fired, I want someone to tie Coyle to a chair or lock him in a closet and keep him from holding a press conference. if Johnson is fired, put out a press release. I don't want Coyle anywhere near a camera or a microphone. the last thing the U needs is a repeat of that disastrous performance by Coyle after the Lindsay Whalen firing (excuse me...mutual decision.....ya sure).

I'm not 100% convinced Coyle doesn't go out with Ben. He isn't exactly killing it in his decision making and he has the personality of wet carpet.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

I think Coyle would be more than willing to spend as much money as he’s allowed.

Or, to say it another way, as much money as is available for a new basketball coach - which might not be as much as more than a few other places. Much has been said around here about the "equity or social justice" angle of this hiring but maybe some of that was just putting lipstick on a pig. Better to say that we're promoting equity in hiring instead of we're just cheap or broke.

Like I mentioned previously, Penn State never seemed to care that much about basketball and they hired a coach with negligibly more experience than Ben Johnson (he was associated with a better program as an assistant but a brief tenure as a head coach of a moribund NIAA program isn't much) for around the same amount of money. But, Shrewsberry surprised and I think PSU decided they liked that exposure from a run through the Big Ten tournament and an NCAA tournament appearance with a win. So, after he departed, they forked up the cash for a mature coach with a demonstrated track record of success. Will Minnesota do the same? Well, they didn't with the last two hires and the fatter TV contract may not matter.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

I'm not 100% convinced Coyle doesn't go out with Ben. He isn't exactly killing it in his decision making and he has the personality of wet carpet.

I have a sneaking suspicion that he might not be killing it when it comes to fundraising either and, in his job, that's probably more important than "decision making."