Bball program is in solid shape

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bga1

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I have been less than enthusiastic about Tubby's recruiting and his offense at times but right now the Tubbster has on pretty solid long term ground barring a set back. Here are some things I see:

1. A really good current top 25 squad that will stay there this year if we avoid key injuries.

2. Despite losing Mbakwe and Williams after this year- I don't see a big drop-off. We have the three main guards returning and Buggs and Ellenson should be nice plug and play options next year. We could be top 25 again next year due to the guards. I'm impressed with Buggs and Ellenson- a nice under the radar recruiting class and I hope Ellis and Foster are similar.

3. We have some really good local classes coming up. If Tubby gets Tyus- homerun. But even if he doesn't - if he gets his share of the next few classes, we should be solid for a good number of years.

4. They finally opened up a Chicago connection with this recruiting class and that could bode well for the future.

5. The club is showing some character and spirit. They look like they are having a lot of fun and that is infectuous for a program.
 

Agreed on all accounts. If Foster and Ellis turn out then Tubby is going to have had 3 really good below the radar classes in a row, which will hopefully help us get some blue chippers in the next few years, both in state and out of state. Also, Hopefully Teague finishes up a master facilities plan that includes a practice facility and a plan for Williams. Then we'll be well on our way.
 

I would also agree. I think a lot depends on how EE and Mo develop over the year and into next.
 

Agreed on most counts. These are all his recruits and by all accounts, he is not dealing with any off court issues (okay, Trevor could be an exception since we never know there edit: His own kid could be an issue too). That cannot be underestimated in its importance. Being able to focus on basketball has to be a great gift to both staff and players. We are moving forward, but the '14 class is huge. I was just talking to a Hoosier fan who reminded me they really floundered under Crean until Zeller committed. One local star recruit changed the whole trajectory of the IU program. Tyus and Vaughn are our program changers. Getting them to commit can take us from a middling at best program to one that has to be reckoned with. No pressure, coach, but the decisions of those two kids will tell us where we are going for several years to come.

I'm a huge Dre fan, but I do think this program's biggest weakness is it's lack of a true point guard. He is very good, but I think he would be more effective as a shooting guard first player.
 

I agree with Holy Man. Tyus and Vaughn will determine if we will compete in the Big Ten for years to come or if we will simply have to settle for Top 5 for the foreseeable future.
 


I agree that those two are program changers, but if we miss out on them we can still be a strong program. Imagine if we lost out on them but got Travis Reid, Henry Ellenson, Alex Illikainen and a few other below the radar players like the Hollins Bros. We'd still be very good.
 

Holy Man said:
I'm a huge Dre fan, but I do think this program's biggest weakness is it's lack of a true point guard. He is very good, but I think he would be more effective as a shooting guard first player.
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My feelings as well, but I think Dre will continue to get better at the position (not just scoring) and become a complete PG by the time he is done here.
 

Agreed tikited. There were people here last year, a lot of them, saying that Dre didn't have a point guard bone in his body. I think he has shown significant progress in the area of running an offense. Better yet- he's a 4 year guy because he has to become an exceptional point guard at his size in order to get any looks at the NBA level.
 

I think things look pretty sharp. I have been pleasantly surprised with how we have looked thus far. Kudos to Tubby for all of his work recruiting, developing, and coaching.
 



bga1 said:
I have been less than enthusiastic about Tubby's recruiting and his offense at times but right now the Tubbster has on pretty solid long term ground barring a set back. Here are some things I see:

1. A really good current top 25 squad that will stay there this year if we avoid key injuries.

2. Despite losing Mbakwe and Williams after this year- I don't see a big drop-off. We have the three main guards returning and Buggs and Ellenson should be nice plug and play options next year. We could be top 25 again next year due to the guards. I'm impressed with Buggs and Ellenson- a nice under the radar recruiting class and I hope Ellis and Foster are similar.

3. We have some really good local classes coming up. If Tubby gets Tyus- homerun. But even if he doesn't - if he gets his share of the next few classes, we should be solid for a good number of years.

4. They finally opened up a Chicago connection with this recruiting class and that could bode well for the future.

5. The club is showing some character and spirit. They look like they are having a lot of fun and that is infectuous for a program.
Click to expand...

Great points bga1. I am glad that you are happy. I don't want to blame anybody for anything. We just didn't have the right people or a good luck (injuries + transfers) during the last 4 years. The best year to make a run was when RW and TM got in trouble. Past is past. All we can do is to be hopefull about the future.

Go Gophers
 

Depends what "solid" means...is it just a hodgepodge of miscellaneous "pluses" or sustained ability to go into most seasons expecting that an NCAA bid is reasonably likely? Decent chance of dancing? Finish in top 6 of Big Ten every few years?

When I project the Big Ten for 2013-14, I see the Gophers coming into next year being picked to finish in the bottom half of the Big Ten... do others see it a different way?
 

bga1 said:
I have been less than enthusiastic about Tubby's recruiting and his offense at times but right now the Tubbster has on pretty solid long term ground barring a set back. Here are some things I see:

1. A really good current top 25 squad that will stay there this year if we avoid key injuries.

2. Despite losing Mbakwe and Williams after this year- I don't see a big drop-off. We have the three main guards returning and Buggs and Ellenson should be nice plug and play options next year. We could be top 25 again next year due to the guards. I'm impressed with Buggs and Ellenson- a nice under the radar recruiting class and I hope Ellis and Foster are similar.

3. We have some really good local classes coming up. If Tubby gets Tyus- homerun. But even if he doesn't - if he gets his share of the next few classes, we should be solid for a good number of years.

4. They finally opened up a Chicago connection with this recruiting class and that could bode well for the future.

5. The club is showing some character and spirit. They look like they are having a lot of fun and that is infectuous for a program.
Click to expand...

Agree for the msot part Beeg.

The team played very well against most opponenets this year, FL St they whipped. Not sure if FLST will be as good as advertised pre season however.

Tubby has them going good, taking care of what they are supposed to.

Top 3 in Conf and at least 2 NCAA wins - otherwise it will be more of the same.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
When I project the Big Ten for 2013-14, I see the Gophers coming into next year being picked to finish in the bottom half of the Big Ten... do others see it a different way?
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Why do you see them in the bottom half? They'll have among the most experienced and talented backcourts in the conference. Stud guard play can take you a long ways in college basketball. I understand they'll be losing a couple of studs in the front court, but they'll also have two redshirt junior centers returning.

Also, it's a little premature to even rank teams like that since you don't know who is returning. If a team like Michigan or Indiana has a big year, they could lose a lot of their talent. Then you have a team like Wisconsin who may have some good recruits coming in, but other than Dekker they don't really return much.
 



Here is why I agree with Gopher Warrior...

If we predict a bottom half finish, we will not be disappointed if we finish in the bottom half.

If we finish upper half, then we can say how happy we were to be wrong.

It's a good thing.
 

Dr.Don said:
Here is why I agree with Gopher Warrior...

If we predict a bottom half finish, we will not be disappointed if we finish in the bottom half.

If we finish upper half, then we can say how happy we were to be wrong.

It's a good thing.
Click to expand...

I would still be disappointed, but I understand your logic.
 

bga1 said:
I have been less than enthusiastic about Tubby's recruiting and his offense at times but right now the Tubbster has on pretty solid long term ground barring a set back. Here are some things I see:

1. A really good current top 25 squad that will stay there this year if we avoid key injuries.

2. Despite losing Mbakwe and Williams after this year- I don't see a big drop-off. We have the three main guards returning and Buggs and Ellenson should be nice plug and play options next year. We could be top 25 again next year due to the guards. I'm impressed with Buggs and Ellenson- a nice under the radar recruiting class and I hope Ellis and Foster are similar.

3. We have some really good local classes coming up. If Tubby gets Tyus- homerun. But even if he doesn't - if he gets his share of the next few classes, we should be solid for a good number of years.

4. They finally opened up a Chicago connection with this recruiting class and that could bode well for the future.

5. The club is showing some character and spirit. They look like they are having a lot of fun and that is infectuous for a program.
Click to expand...

I'm glad to see people coming around. Last year I said over & over while people were screaming for Tubby's head that the team was young still (7 of 10 rotation guys were underclassmen) & our PG still had his training wheels on. I told people to remain patient because Dre Hollins was a special player & this team would mature together & become special. I was also the kook who started the thread here HOPING we'd get an NIT bid instead of an NCAA bid because the young guys could use the extra practice/games as opposed to getting blown out by a #1 seed & going home. I took even further at that time when I suggested that we wouldn't have a significant drop-off after Rodney/Trevor left because our back court would be all upperclassmen + we'd return 3 R-Jr's in the front court + whoever we recruited.

Looking into my crystal ball this year....many fans will think the sky is falling when we stumble early in the B1G schedule. Dre is special but he's just starting his Soph year & not consistent yet, so we're bound to have some frustrating games. I think Dre (the entire team really, but especially Dre) will be playing his best ball come tourney time (just like last year) & I expect a nice run to the Sweet-16 or beyond.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Depends what "solid" means...is it just a hodgepodge of miscellaneous "pluses" or sustained ability to go into most seasons expecting that an NCAA bid is reasonably likely? Decent chance of dancing? Finish in top 6 of Big Ten every few years?

When I project the Big Ten for 2013-14, I see the Gophers coming into next year being picked to finish in the bottom half of the Big Ten... do others see it a different way?
Click to expand...

How do you figure? Dre and Austin haven't shown enough to assume that they will continue to improve? Dre was a SG in HS and has dramatically improved over less than a year and a half playing the point. Elliot and Mo haven't shown any improvement? I think another year of significant playing time will help them improve as well. I'm not trying to say that losing Rodney and Trevor will not hurt the team. It will. However, Trevor hasn't even played significant minutes in a majority of our games. As it currently stands, the Gophers are sitting at the number 14 spot in the AP poll. I think that the development and gains will help offset our losses.

But then again, you've always been a major pessimist.
 

stocker08 said:
As it currently stands, the Gophers are sitting at the number 14 spot in the AP poll. I think that the development and gains will help offset our losses.

But then again, you've always been a major pessimist.
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I like "realist" better :)

True, the Gophers are #14 in the AP poll. There are also 4 Big Ten teams currently ranked higher than them and there are also a couple of Big Ten teams that were recently ranked higher than them that are currently not any longer.

There's a tendency to get defensive about your team.. "well, this guy will be better and this guy is back, so we'll be very good!" However, the analysis includes are comparison to what is happening with other teams.

True, there may be some guys that leave other programs with eligibility remaining.. and there will be transfers, etc.. but when you look at how each team projects to progress, the Gophers fall to the bottom half.

Maybe I'll try to throw something together that gives some specifics/more substance to this, but a quick example is Iowa. They project to be a team that projects in 2013-14 to be better than the Gophers. They're starting two talented true freshman and have a lot of good sophomores and juniors.. not to mention Uthoff becoming eligible next year.
 

BarnBurner said:
Agree for the msot part Beeg.

The team played very well against most opponenets this year, FL St they whipped. Not sure if FLST will be as good as advertised pre season however.

Tubby has them going good, taking care of what they are supposed to.

Top 3 in Conf and at least 2 NCAA wins - otherwise it will be more of the same.
Click to expand...

Is Minnesota better than Indiana Michigan and Ohio State at the end of the year? Top 3 in conference would likely put the Gophers as a top 10 team in the nation.
 

afurry91 said:
I agree with Holy Man. Tyus and Vaughn will determine if we will compete in the Big Ten for years to come or if we will simply have to settle for Top 5 for the foreseeable future.
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Hard to say on Tyrus and/or Vaughn...Sounds like Tyrus is not only being recruited by the big guns, but is making a joint decision with another recruit...where one goes, they both go...Vaughn seems guarded about MN. Maybe a good year and big dance run will encourage him.

Anyway, I think Tubby has finally gotten pretty much the team he has been looking for, though he has continually had to deal with both injuries and players needing to mature...
 

Gopher Warrior said:
I like "realist" better :)

True, the Gophers are #14 in the AP poll. There are also 4 Big Ten teams currently ranked higher than them and there are also a couple of Big Ten teams that were recently ranked higher than them that are currently not any longer.

There's a tendency to get defensive about your team.. "well, this guy will be better and this guy is back, so we'll be very good!" However, the analysis includes are comparison to what is happening with other teams.

True, there may be some guys that leave other programs with eligibility remaining.. and there will be transfers, etc.. but when you look at how each team projects to progress, the Gophers fall to the bottom half.

Maybe I'll try to throw something together that gives some specifics/more substance to this, but a quick example is Iowa. They project to be a team that projects in 2013-14 to be better than the Gophers. They're starting two talented true freshman and have a lot of good sophomores and juniors.. not to mention Uthoff becoming eligible next year.
Click to expand...

for some reason I think 14 is still a little high for this team. Maybe simply the way fortunes go from one game to the next.
 

Gold Vision said:
Is Minnesota better than Indiana Michigan and Ohio State at the end of the year? Top 3 in conference would likely put the Gophers as a top 10 team in the nation.
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He also "expects" two Tournament wins, something the Gophers have accomplished 3 times in school history - zero in the lifetimes of most current U seniors.
 


I am not on the boat that says Tubby NEEDS to get Tyus, don't get me wrong, I would love to him on the team, but I am not going to be disappointed if he chooses somewhere else since that is what I expect, I do think Minnesota looks to have a solid future, and I am basing that off the nice classes coming out of Minnesota in the next few years. Travis Reid, Henry Ellenson, Alex Illikainen, Rashad Vaughn, Jarvis Johnson, Amir Coffey, Brock Bertram, all have a good chance as being gophers in the next few years, and the best part, is that they are all evenly spread out in terms of class year, I know we won't get all of them( I really have my doubts about Alex Illikainen) but I have to think he can get most, and if you can succeed win getting these players and actually win with them, gophers will finally be able to recruit outside of the region, because nothing is better to sell to recruits than wins(You think kids want to go to Kentucky of all places if they weren't winners?)

Also I know everyone wants Tyus to come here, including I, but people should also keep an eye out for Dominique Collier from Colorado, he is listed as SG on espn, but is actually a PG. I saw him play last season when I visited family in Colorado, and this kid is impressive. Don't get me wrong, he is no Tyus, but if we end up with Dominique Collier instead of Tyus, I would not be disappointing. He has a lot of good offers, but nothing like what Tyus has, which gives me hope we can land him. I doubt many people would thrilled if we lose out on Tyus and end up with Dominique Collier, but any other year, we would be saying Tubby hit a homerun with this recruit

Edit* I know Henry Ellenson is not from minnesota, just making the point that he is a person who has a good chance to be wearing maroon and gold in the next few years,
 

Gopher Warrior said:
I like "realist" better :)

True, the Gophers are #14 in the AP poll. There are also 4 Big Ten teams currently ranked higher than them and there are also a couple of Big Ten teams that were recently ranked higher than them that are currently not any longer.

There's a tendency to get defensive about your team.. "well, this guy will be better and this guy is back, so we'll be very good!" However, the analysis includes are comparison to what is happening with other teams.

True, there may be some guys that leave other programs with eligibility remaining.. and there will be transfers, etc.. but when you look at how each team projects to progress, the Gophers fall to the bottom half.

Maybe I'll try to throw something together that gives some specifics/more substance to this, but a quick example is Iowa. They project to be a team that projects in 2013-14 to be better than the Gophers. They're starting two talented true freshman and have a lot of good sophomores and juniors.. not to mention Uthoff becoming eligible next year.
Click to expand...

Maybe a better question would be where does Minnesota project nationally? Bottom half of the B1G could still mean a tournament birth.

However, I think it comes down to how good Buggs is at stepping in for Rodney and if Mo can get into good shape. He doesn't need to be Mbakwe, but Josh Smith (UCLA) cannot be someone you compare him to and expect to be successful. Either that or Elliot needs to obtain Mo's post game and touch.
 

The Gopher first six are very strong and balanced. I worry about injuries or foul trouble. If I am Izzo, I try to get Dre in foul trouble. Whoever he is guarding, take him to the basket and force contact. Then cry and scream that there is a foul. Mav is improving but he is not there yet. The frontline is pretty deep with Trevor and Ingram.

Next year, I will also worry about EE. Mo is not ready for long stretches at center. Hopefully he stays healthy and gets in shape and develops.

As someone on Gopherhole wrote, it is my job to worry about the Gophers and I am not going to stop now.
 

bga1 said:
I have been less than enthusiastic about Tubby's recruiting and his offense at times but right now the Tubbster has on pretty solid long term ground barring a set back. Here are some things I see:

1. A really good current top 25 squad that will stay there this year if we avoid key injuries.

2. Despite losing Mbakwe and Williams after this year- I don't see a big drop-off. We have the three main guards returning and Buggs and Ellenson should be nice plug and play options next year. We could be top 25 again next year due to the guards. I'm impressed with Buggs and Ellenson- a nice under the radar recruiting class and I hope Ellis and Foster are similar.

3. We have some really good local classes coming up. If Tubby gets Tyus- homerun. But even if he doesn't - if he gets his share of the next few classes, we should be solid for a good number of years.

4. They finally opened up a Chicago connection with this recruiting class and that could bode well for the future.

5. The club is showing some character and spirit. They look like they are having a lot of fun and that is infectuous for a program.
Click to expand...

What have you been able to see from Buggs and Ellenson that "impresses" you? Buggs played limited minutes in the two exhibition games, and we haven't seen anything from Wally.
 

I am not too sure how well we will replace Rodney and Trevor next year. Much will be required of two unproven freshman in Buggs and Foster. Hope at least one of them will step up to the plate. Love our guards next year. Add Wally and Ellis and we will be pretty strong in that position.
 

dpodoll68 said:
He also "expects" two Tournament wins, something the Gophers have accomplished 3 times in school history - zero in the lifetimes of most current U seniors.
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NW fans are starting to expect a tournament berth. Something that the Wildcats have accomplished 0 times in school history - zero in the lifetimes of all NW seniors.
 

...well...we haven't yet played a B1G game this season. Florida State just lost to Mercer on their own court so take the win over FSU with a bit of a question mark. We got blown out by Duke.

The kids played better offensively against FSU, which is a good sign. However, we still turn the ball over a lot.

I'm not ready to drink the Kool-Aid on this team...yet. The history of Tubby's teams has been good play in November and December followed by significant dropoff come B1G season. I'm not saying this team isn't his best team, I'm just holding back in reserve to see if this team will continue to improve of if it will find a way to shoot itself in the foot.

Okay...I've said it...the king has no clothes. Now, go on and get back to the revelry. :clap:
 

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