Bball program is in solid shape

[scher215]

...well...we haven't yet played a B1G game this season. Florida State just lost to Mercer on their own court so take the win over FSU with a bit of a question mark. We got blown out by Duke.

The kids played better offensively against FSU, which is a good sign. However, we still turn the ball over a lot.

I'm not ready to drink the Kool-Aid on this team...yet. The history of Tubby's teams has been good play in November and December followed by significant dropoff come B1G season. I'm not saying this team isn't his best team, I'm just holding back in reserve to see if this team will continue to improve of if it will find a way to shoot itself in the foot.

Okay...I've said it...the king has no clothes. Now, go on and get back to the revelry.

Once again. What do all those "significant drop off seasons" have in common?

 

[sunnyday2]

Hard to say on Tyrus and/or Vaughn...Sounds like Tyrus is not only being recruited by the big guns, but is making a joint decision with another recruit...where one goes, they both go...Vaughn seems guarded about MN. Maybe a good year and big dance run will encourage him.


I hope calminnfan doesn't cost us Tyus by continuing to call him Tyrus.

 

[GophersOnTheRise]

He also "expects" two Tournament wins, something the Gophers have accomplished 3 times in school history - zero in the lifetimes of most current U seniors.

How many times in school history have the Gophers had this much talent? You can't determine current season expectations based on what they've done in the past with completely different rosters/coaches. Doesn't make sense. You base current season expectations on the current team's talent.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I agree with Gopher Warrior (up to a point). On the national scene, the Gopher players with the highest profile are Rodney W. and Trevor M. I can easily see next year's pre-season magazines coming out with something like.........."The Gophers lost high-flying Rodney Williams and PF Trevor Mbakwe to the NBA. Look for Tubby's team to take a step backwards."

To be clear - that is not necessarily MY opinion - but it's what I think the national media will focus on. To keep the program moving forward, the younger players will have to improve, and Tubby really needs to land a high-profile recruit to generate some positive national buzz. A few "under-the-radar" types are fine, but national coverage focuses on "star" players, and next year's team does not look to have that type of player, unless Dre Hollins has a big conference season and elevates his profile.

 

[Rouser]

I agree with Gopher Warrior (up to a point). On the national scene, the Gopher players with the highest profile are Rodney W. and Trevor M. I can easily see next year's pre-season magazines coming out with something like.........."The Gophers lost high-flying Rodney Williams and PF Trevor Mbakwe to the NBA. Look for Tubby's team to take a step backwards."

To be clear - that is not necessarily MY opinion - but it's what I think the national media will focus on. To keep the program moving forward, the younger players will have to improve, and Tubby really needs to land a high-profile recruit to generate some positive national buzz. A few "under-the-radar" types are fine, but national coverage focuses on "star" players, and next year's team does not look to have that type of player, unless Dre Hollins has a big conference season and elevates his profile.

National coverage focuses on wins IMO, not players...especially for a school like us.. If we were .500 right now, there would not be much, if any, national coverage of the Gophers.. with or without Rodney and Trevor. If next year's team plays well, and I think they will, the coverage will come. I do agree that we will get little pub at the start of the year (due to losing two high profile players) but that the coverage will arrive once Dre leads us to win the Maui Invitational in dramatic fashion with wins over Cal and Syracuse

 

[calminnfan]

Hard to say on Tyrus and/or Vaughn...Sounds like Tyrus is not only being recruited by the big guns, but is making a joint decision with another recruit...where one goes, they both go...Vaughn seems guarded about MN. Maybe a good year and big dance run will encourage him.


I hope calminnfan doesn't cost us Tyus by continuing to call him Tyrus.

oops

 

[bga1]

What have you been able to see from Buggs and Ellenson that "impresses" you? Buggs played limited minutes in the two exhibition games, and we haven't seen anything from Wally.

Both also played in the midnight madness and both impressed me. You can't tell much in a scrimmage like that other than if a player looks like he fits with the other guys. Both played very well (perhaps the two leading scorers) and looked like they belonged.

 

[tikited]

Agreed tikited. There were people here last year, a lot of them, saying that Dre didn't have a point guard bone in his body. I think he has shown significant progress in the area of running an offense. Better yet- he's a 4 year guy because he has to become an exceptional point guard at his size in order to get any looks at the NBA level.

I was one of those people early on last year. The biggest improvement I have seen is his willingness to control the game even when he isn't scoring. Good PG quality to have.

 

[tinyarch]

Once again. What do all those "significant drop off seasons" have in common?

...Tubby Smith...

 

[EG#9]

Interesting thread, I'd much rather just feel good about being ranked 14th in the nation, but I can't resist.

I probably lean more towards Gopher Warrior's take than BGA's. I think it's possible that Buggs/Ellenson turns out to be a nice class, but the jury is very much out on that. The bottom line is that the class wasn't well regarded in the Big Ten and Buggs couldn't earn minutes ahead of Oto. Buggs could really just need a year in the weight room and Wally might be a good player as well. The '13 class is shaping up to be similar to '12 so far in that it's not highly regarded and features a 2 guard and a 3/4 tweener. The Gophers need to hope one (or both) of these classes significantly outperform their rankings in order to avoid falling down the standings. That's not a position I feel great about the program being in.

Upside: '13 should have very good guard play between Andre and Austin (and Joe as that 3rd guard/wing) and talented veteran guards can make up for flaws elsewhere on the roster.

Downside: Very concerned about who rebounds the ball in '13. The Gophers are seriously lacking mature, athletic size for next season and that is a huge issue in the B1G. Neither Elliott or Mo are overly athletic and Mo certainly appears to be a guy who won't play more than 10-15 min a game. I am not sure we have anyone on (or committed to the program) the roster who fits the profile of a Trevor Mbakwe or any of the guys who routinely play in the paint at tOSU or MSU.

I would imagine the Gophers are looking for a JUCO PF who profiles better than Edozie to come in and play major minutes next season. Whether or not that guy exists (and they can land him) might have a huge bearing on the results of the '13 season.

I'd also like to add that, even with a potential down year in '13, the program could still be in solid shape assuming most of the following things happen:

1. Gophers finish no worse than 4th in the B1G
2. Gophers finish ranked inside the top 20 and/or make the sweet 16
3. Gophers receive a commitment from Tyus or Rashad OR land Reid Travis AND another highly regarded out of state prospect.

The better the Gophers do this year, the more likely the original post will be accurate. I'd sign up for a season that ends with the Gophers ranked exactly where they are right now...and hope to build on that in '14 (if not '13).

 

[scher215]

...Tubby Smith...

Try again. The words your actually looking for are "season ending Injuries to key players" I'd also accept "losing players" or "key departures"

Point being, we've never had a quality team that has stayed healthy and on the court, so using prior years is really not an adequate precedent.

 

[tinyarch]

Try again. The words your actually looking for are "season ending Injuries to key players" I'd also accept "losing players" or "key departures"

Point being, we've never had a quality team that has stayed healthy and on the court, so using prior years is really not an adequate precedent.

All under the umbrella of...Tubby Smith.

 

[BarnBurner]

He also "expects" two Tournament wins, something the Gophers have accomplished 3 times in school history - zero in the lifetimes of most current U seniors.

DPDOLL = complete lack of confidence in the coach and team.

Lots of seniors, lots of experience, over half a decade od the same coaching staff, and doll cant yet make the jump to think this team can win 2 ncaa games.

Hey doll - rated #14. Take a look.

 

[underground629]

I have to agree, but definitely near the top of the bottom half. I think a lot of people on here overestimate our big men not named Rodney or Trevor. We'll have a very solid big 3 next year, but there's quite a dropoff after that.

Depends what "solid" means...is it just a hodgepodge of miscellaneous "pluses" or sustained ability to go into most seasons expecting that an NCAA bid is reasonably likely? Decent chance of dancing? Finish in top 6 of Big Ten every few years?

When I project the Big Ten for 2013-14, I see the Gophers coming into next year being picked to finish in the bottom half of the Big Ten... do others see it a different way?

 

[sunnyday2]

Of course, if your idea of a big year is a Big 10 title....

When I was a kid the Gophers hadn't won since 1937. Then came 1972. Tainted but a title. Then came 1982, totally untainted. It could be done! Then came 1997, nuff sed. I think the idea of a Big 10 title is more foreign to people now than at any time since at least the late 1960s and may ever. I mean, Minnesota in 1937 hadn't won since 1919 but before 1919 there were maybe 6 Big 10 titles including the 1st ever in 1907 (?) and another in 1917. So even in 1937 people thought, sure, I remember when we contended every year!

But anyway, if a Big 10 title is going to happen again in my lifetime is will be behind Tyus, Rashad and Reid. There is no other path.

 

[dpodoll68]

DPDOLL = complete lack of confidence in the coach and team.

False. Knowledge of history and probabilities? Yes.

Lots of seniors

Four seniors (two of whom would ever see the floor if Tubby played a 7-8 man rotation like everyone else) is now "lots"? Nxet.

doll cant yet make the jump to think this team can win 2 ncaa games

Liar. I said no such thing. Literally any Division I-A team who is postseason eligible "can" win 2 Tournament wins, but how many should "expect" to? Maybe 25-30 in any given year? Given precedent, Minnesota should not "expect" to go to the Sweet 16. How often does it happen where a team goes from a handful of Tournament appearances in school history to suddenly "expecting" to go to the Sweet 16? For those of us who live in reality, we see that successful teams without a history of success often build momentum over a period of years, maybe just being happy to break in to the tournament for 1-3 years, building on that success and eventually breaking through to get to the second weekend and occasionally go on title runs. Teams can and do go on unexpected Sweet 16 runs, but the word "unexpected" is literally in the description. Any reasonable Gophers fan would be very pleased with a Sweet 16 run this season (given that we have THREE in our ENTIRE HISTORY), but ZTA insists that he "expects" this team to do it. "Expects" or what? If ZTA were the AD (God forbid), what would failure to meet his "expectations" mean for Tubby? Sweet 16 or bust? Good luck with any potential coaches taking Minnesota seriously if Tubby gets fired for going to the 2nd round.

 

[BarnBurner]

False. Knowledge of history and probabilities? Yes.



Four seniors (two of whom would ever see the floor if Tubby played a 7-8 man rotation like everyone else) is now "lots"? Nxet.



Liar. I said no such thing. Literally any Division I-A team who is postseason eligible "can" win 2 Tournament wins, but how many should "expect" to? Maybe 25-30 in any given year? Given precedent, Minnesota should not "expect" to go to the Sweet 16. How often does it happen where a team goes from a handful of Tournament appearances in school history to suddenly "expecting" to go to the Sweet 16? For those of us who live in reality, we see that successful teams without a history of success often build momentum over a period of years, maybe just being happy to break in to the tournament for 1-3 years, building on that success and eventually breaking through to get to the second weekend and occasionally go on title runs. Teams can and do go on unexpected Sweet 16 runs, but the word "unexpected" is literally in the description. Any reasonable Gophers fan would be very pleased with a Sweet 16 run this season (given that we have THREE in our ENTIRE HISTORY), but ZTA insists that he "expects" this team to do it. "Expects" or what? If ZTA were the AD (God forbid), what would failure to meet his "expectations" mean for Tubby? Sweet 16 or bust? Good luck with any potential coaches taking Minnesota seriously if Tubby gets fired for going to the 2nd round.

Fact - dpdoll has no confidence in the coach or team. Fact. Relies on history and probabilities, not the team and coach in 12-13.

Fact - this team is lead by seniors, and juniors. Fact. TM, RW, AH, JW, MA FACT.

FACT - dpdoll cant stand having any sort of expectations for an NCAA Championship winning coach, hand picked staff and hand picked players? After half a decade in Mpls, dpdoll cant stand having any expectations.!!!!!!!!!

FACT - dp cant come to grips this team SHOULD win at least 2 ncaa games. And cant admit it, cuz if they fail it would be a bad deal. And we all know it.

Except dpdoll.

 

[lakesgopher]

All under the umbrella of...Tubby Smith.

dumbest thing i have ever read on goherhole and that says something!

 

[The-Real-Truth]

All under the umbrella of...Tubby Smith.

At what point are you going to let it go????? UK is not doing too well with all of its stars. Maybe soon we will hear 10-lose-Cal. Maybe not. He is from the favorite race in the South so he will never treated like that.

Go Gophers

 

[The-Real-Truth]

Fact - dpdoll has no confidence in the coach or team. Fact. Relies on history and probabilities, not the team and coach in 12-13.

Fact - this team is lead by seniors, and juniors. Fact. TM, RW, AH, JW, MA FACT.

FACT - dpdoll cant stand having any sort of expectations for an NCAA Championship winning coach, hand picked staff and hand picked players? After half a decade in Mpls, dpdoll cant stand having any expectations.!!!!!!!!!

FACT - dp cant come to grips this team SHOULD win at least 2 ncaa games. And cant admit it, cuz if they fail it would be a bad deal. And we all know it.

Except dpdoll.

Unlike what you and some of your bodies here want, Gophers are doing well. What don't come back and bash the team and coaches when they lose a few games. You'll enjoy more. At this point, you all are maxed out to 3-4. People will not listen to your negative posts. Why waste the time?

Go Gophers

 

[dpodoll68]

Fact - dpdoll has no confidence in the coach or team.

Lie. Entirely made up.

Fact. Relies on history and probabilities, not the team and coach in 12-13.

Yes. You rely on whatever it is that you rely on, and I'll rely on probability. You will occasionally be right, but I'll be right an overwhelming majority of the time.

Fact - this team is lead by seniors, and juniors. Fact. TM, RW, AH, JW, MA FACT.

Who said it wasn't? "Lead [sic] by" is different than "lots of". "Seniors, and juniors" is different than "seniors". It's easy to "win" the "argument" when you keep changing your "point".

FACT - dpdoll cant stand having any sort of expectations for an NCAA Championship winning coach, hand picked staff and hand picked players? After half a decade in Mpls, dpdoll cant stand having any expectations.!!!!!!!!!

Lies. Every last bit of it. Again, it's easy to "win" an "argument" when you fabricate the other's side out of whole cloth.

FACT - dp cant come to grips this team SHOULD win at least 2 ncaa games. And cant admit it, cuz if they fail it would be a bad deal. And we all know it.

Answer the question. If you're the AD, do you fire Tubby if he loses in the 1st or 2nd round?

 

[tinyarch]

dumbest thing i have ever read on goherhole and that says something!

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, Lakes.

 

[BarnBurner]

Unlike what you and some of your bodies here want, Gophers are doing well. What don't come back and bash the team and coaches when they lose a few games. You'll enjoy more. At this point, you all are maxed out to 3-4. People will not listen to your negative posts. Why waste the time?

Go Gophers

You seem to be another one that cant stand reality. They are playing very well right now, and I have said so.

 

[lakesgopher]

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, Lakes.

i cant believe tubby hurt trevor and mo last year, i cant believe tubby forced devoe, cobbs, and iverson to transfer, i cant believe tubby forced royce white to act so foolishly so he could kick him off the team. youre right tinyarch, its 100% tubbys lack of coaching that caused all these things to happen and that is why we struggled the last couple years...we will ignore the glaring facts of when we were healthy we were pretty good, and when we were injured we were bad. good call tinyarch!!! you my man are a great bball mind and im just a kool aid drinker

lol cant wait for your brilliant response

 

[jmag21]

Look, the Gophers are doing very well right now. I expect them to compete for a sweet 16 berth, but if I wouldn't consider the season to be a disappointment unless we missed the NCAA tournament. This is a good team, but the NCAA tournament is a crap shoot. Let's not start in on Tubby if we get a bad draw and lose in the first or second round. This should be a good building block season regardless, as long as we're dancing. And I share the optimism for the future. We'll be losing some people this year, but I think we'll be well set up to compete next year, although I would definitely like a big bodied rebounder to come in and bang for us next year.

 

[BarnBurner]

Lie. Entirely made up.



Yes. You rely on whatever it is that you rely on, and I'll rely on probability. You will occasionally be right, but I'll be right an overwhelming majority of the time.



Who said it wasn't? "Lead [sic] by" is different than "lots of". "Seniors, and juniors" is different than "seniors". It's easy to "win" the "argument" when you keep changing your "point".



Lies. Every last bit of it. Again, it's easy to "win" an "argument" when you fabricate the other's side out of whole cloth.



Answer the question. If you're the AD, do you fire Tubby if he loses in the 1st or 2nd round?

No cofidence in the coach or team to win. That is the facts, dpdoll.

Recruiting, player development, coaching, team makeup - all of these things do not matter. It is about probability and history!!!!!

Your confidence in your boy ots is at an all time high doll. You have indicated winning 2 ncaa games is not expected of this team, this year, in your opinion.

In your world, a decade with an ncaa win or two is on par for a ncaa champ winning coach being paid huge $$.

High, high expectations.

 

[tinyarch]

At what point are you going to let it go????? UK is not doing too well with all of its stars. Maybe soon we will hear 10-lose-Cal. Maybe not. He is from the favorite race in the South so he will never treated like that.

Go Gophers

At some point you will be forced to accept that the call for Tubby's removal was NOT a race issue, but instead an intelligent basketball community losing its patience with poor coaching.

I'm not a fan of Calipari either. He's a snakeoil salesman with a track record of NCAA violations following him everywhere he's gone.

In the case of Minnesota, the one constant you can find over the past 6 years of placing 6th or lower in the B1G is Tubby Smith. All the other issues are variables. Smith remains consistently mediocre. THAT is the reason why he was unceremoniously pushed out of Kentucky, not because of the pigment of his skin. If it was the latter, then you should see an all white squad at Kentucky like in the days of Adolph Rupp, but you don't see that today.

I hold out hope for Tubby and his offensive schemes. This year has, so far, been better than the past few years regarding ball movement. Another thread mentioned the loss of RSIII as a possible reason for better ball movement. I can concur with that to some degree, but RSIII wasn't the only reason for inefficient offense. Scoggins has a good article about ball movement in today's Strib. Check it out...

Of course, it's only early December and they have to show they can function effectively against better competition. The Big Ten looks full of true heavyweights this season, so we'll find out if the Gophers can sustain what they've started, particularly in conference play when games become tighter and more physical and teams are forced to grind out possessions in the halfcourt.

That's not a been a strength of Gophers teams under Tubby Smith. His offense has looked laborious and stagnant at times, to the point that some games eroded into the visual equivalent of fingernails on a chalkboard. Just painful to watch.

So, it looks like I'm not the only one who see's the obvious in Tubby's coaching style.

Now...you can go back to drinking the Kool-aid and fantasizing about how solid the program is...

 

[jmag21]

Kentucky, an intelligent basketball community? D'ohkay.

 

[lakesgopher]

At some point you will be forced to accept that the call for Tubby's removal was NOT a race issue, but instead an intelligent basketball community losing its patience with poor coaching.

I'm not a fan of Calipari either. He's a snakeoil salesman with a track record of NCAA violations following him everywhere he's gone.

In the case of Minnesota, the one constant you can find over the past 6 years of placing 6th or lower in the B1G is Tubby Smith. All the other issues are variables. Smith remains consistently mediocre. THAT is the reason why he was unceremoniously pushed out of Kentucky, not because of the pigment of his skin. If it was the latter, then you should see an all white squad at Kentucky like in the days of Adolph Rupp, but you don't see that today.

I hold out hope for Tubby and his offensive schemes. This year has, so far, been better than the past few years regarding ball movement. Another thread mentioned the loss of RSIII as a possible reason for better ball movement. I can concur with that to some degree, but RSIII wasn't the only reason for inefficient offense. Scoggins has a good article about ball movement in today's Strib. Check it out...



So, it looks like I'm not the only one who see's the obvious in Tubby's coaching style.

Now...you can go back to drinking the Kool-aid and fantasizing about how solid the program is...

how are injuries "variables?" basketball is a sport where a single player can make or break your season. a "variable" to me is foul trouble, not season ending injuries to your best player or transfers of your best guards.

 

[tinyarch]

i cant believe tubby hurt trevor and mo last year, i cant believe tubby forced devoe, cobbs, and iverson to transfer, i cant believe tubby forced royce white to act so foolishly so he could kick him off the team. youre right tinyarch, its 100% tubbys lack of coaching that caused all these things to happen and that is why we struggled the last couple years...we will ignore the glaring facts of when we were healthy we were pretty good, and when we were injured we were bad. good call tinyarch!!! you my man are a great bball mind and im just a kool aid drinker

lol cant wait for your brilliant response

I love it when people blame their situation in life on others...

Who recruited those guys, Lakes? Who was the recruiter that had no backup when a kid gets hurt? What is the ONE constant you can find over the past 6 years of mediocrity, Lakes? Come on, Lakes, you can say it... T-U-B-B-Y S-M-I-T-H ... Good for you, I knew you could say it!

Also, thanks for admitting you are indeed a Kool-aid drinker. However, it doesn't take a great bball mind to recognize the constant is Tubby Smith. It only requires one to be realistic and have simple observation skills rather than immerse oneself in a fantasy land of make believe. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid and observe. You'll come to enjoy the actual good times (the present Gophers in December) and accept the bad times (the past 6 years) for what they truly are.