Assistant Coaches

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cjbfbp said:
Well, we'll see. Dwight Eisenhower was a major for 16 years. But, then the winds of war started blowing and he got a promotion; then WWII began, he got more promotions, and the rest is history.
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Dutcher sounds like an Ike-style hire.
 


GopherNuts said:
Kimani Young was as connected as anybody to the Northeast tri-state when he got here (which is why Hurley wanted him at UCONN), that didn't help us at all in recruiting good players from that area while he was here. When you're a building program, a kid with strong P6 interest from the coasts or down south isn't going to sign up to play for a program that's near the bottom of a conference that they don't care about. You can pull players from the rest of the country that none of the other power conferences want and a few will surprise but most won't as we saw in the Pitino era.

We need to look at recruiting through the scope of what is going to draw in good recruits in the position we're in right now, what are our selling points? we can't sell on court success because we haven't achieved much in 25 years, we can't sell that we're going to get you to the NBA because we had a player drafted last year for the first time in 15 years so what can we sell? Proximity to your family, strength of the conference which is going to mean more to a kid from the Midwest than those from California or Texas, early playing time, selling the Twin Cities is easier to sell to kids in the Midwest than recruits from warmer regions and so on. You can't sell something you aren't so you have to use your strengths even if there aren't many yet.

Chris Beard sent Zhaire Smith, Jarrett Culver and Jahmi'us Ramsey (all Texas kids) to the pros and all of a sudden he can go up and grab a couple sought after recruits from Chicago in Terrance Shannon and Nimari Burnett (who's now in the portal) because he's proved he can get you to the NBA and he's gone to a Final 4. Scott Drew's story is the same, sent Texas kids to the NBA and now he's bringing Dain Dainja and Kendall Brown to Waco. GopherHole's favorite coach Tony Bennett brought Joe Harris with him from the state of Washington after recruiting him at Wazzu but needed Mike Scott (Virginia), Malcolm Brogdon (from an ACC city), Anthony Gil (Virginia), Justin Anderson (Virginia) to get to the NBA to land Kyle Guy (from Big Ten country), D'Andre Hunter, Ty Jerome and now Jabri Abdur-Rahim (from Big East country), Reece Beekman (from an SEC town)....you can take players from anywhere but the difference makers will come from your conference's footprint AT FIRST. Develop, win and put players in the NBA then you will get in the door of a great recruit from Georgia, Florida, New York, Uzbekistan wherever...you have to prove yourself first.
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You can sell Minnesota to Minnesotans. That’s about it. You’re also competing for a much smaller talent pool with every other B1G program for Minnesota recruits. Show me a list of Midwest recruits outside of Minnesota that the Gophers have landed.

You can sell the B1G to the much larger talent pools on the coasts, south and abroad. Some of our best 4 year players have come from the regions you’re talking about.

Jordan Murphy
Nate Mason
Andre Hollins
Ralph Sampson
Austin Hollins
Isaiah Washington
Damian Johnson
Mo Walker
Jamal Mashburn
Lawrence Westbrook
Dupree McBrayer
Devoe Joseph
Marcus Carr

I’m not saying ignore Minnesota, that’s impossible after the head coach hired. Putting all your eggs in the Midwest/Minneaota basket is not sustainable.
 


alchemy2u said:
Do the same analysis for head coaching experience and see what you get.
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Shoot I already know.

Head coaching experience as a predictor of success for College Basketball coaches is a fallacy.

In the Big ten, 0 years Head coach experience is the most common number when hired, which includes 5 active coaches. One of them has more assistant coaching years than Ben Johnson

For your comfort:
A small Sample of coaches with zero years HC experience AND less assistant years than Ben Johnson in their first successful stint( with school they first succeeded at):

Dean Smith UNC
Mark Few Gonzaga
Roy Wiliams Kansas
Tom Izzo MSU
Jim Boheim Syracuse
John Calipari UMass
Bobby Knight Army
Sean Miller Xavier
Brad Stevens Butler
Steve Fisher MI
Denny Crum louisville
Adolph Rupp Kentucky
Phil Woolpert San Fran

Hope this helps.
 


BarnBurner said:
RJ said a few minutes ago he expects one asst to be named in the next day or so.
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Thorson maybe? Colorado State’s season will be over in a few hours. I haven’t heard of any connections to assistants from teams that lost yesterday.
 

atsgopher said:
Shoot I already know.

Head coaching experience as a predictor of success for College Basketball coaches is a fallacy.

In the Big ten, 0 years Head coach experience is the most common number when hired, which includes 5 active coaches. One of them has more assistant coaching years than Ben Johnson

For your comfort:
A small Sample of coaches with zero years HC experience AND less assistant years than Ben Johnson in their first successful stint( with school they first succeeded at):

Dean Smith UNC
Mark Few Gonzaga
Roy Wiliams Kansas
Tom Izzo MSU
Jim Boheim Syracuse
John Calipari UMass
Bobby Knight Army
Sean Miller Xavier
Brad Stevens Butler
Steve Fisher MI
Denny Crum louisville
Adolph Rupp Kentucky
Phil Woolpert San Fran

Hope this helps.
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The difference is that all of these coaches were players and/or assistants under highly successful coaches/programs before becoming a head coach. The same thing goes for the current B1G head coaches who landed their first head coaching job in the B1G.

The same thing cannot be said for Ben Johnson.
 

atsgopher said:
Shoot I already know.

Head coaching experience as a predictor of success for College Basketball coaches is a fallacy.

In the Big ten, 0 years Head coach experience is the most common number when hired, which includes 5 active coaches. One of them has more assistant coaching years than Ben Johnson

For your comfort:
A small Sample of coaches with zero years HC experience AND less assistant years than Ben Johnson in their first successful stint( with school they first succeeded at):

Dean Smith UNC - succeeded Frank McGuire 76% Win %
Mark Few Gonzaga - Succeeded Dan Monson 75% win %
Roy Wiliams Kansas - Assistant to one of the greatest coaches and programs
Tom Izzo MSU - Succeeded Heathcote 61% win %
Jim Boheim Syracuse - Succeeded Roy Danforth 68% win %
John Calipari UMass
Bobby Knight Army
Sean Miller Xavier
Brad Stevens Butler - Succeed Licklighter 68% win %
Steve Fisher MI
Denny Crum louisville
Adolph Rupp Kentucky
Phil Woolpert San Fran

Hope this helps.
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Just ran through a few, looks like succession is the overwhelming trend within successful programs. How is this similar to Minnesota's hiring process? Every single example or justification outside of recruiting just further highlights how shocking this hire was.
 
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goldengophers said:
Just ran through a few, looks like succession is the overwhelming trend within successful programs. How is this similar to Minnesota's hiring process?
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So why would you give a shit who we hire, success is impossible anyhow.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
The difference is that all of these coaches were players and/or assistants under highly successful coaches/programs before becoming a head coach. The same thing goes for the current B1G head coaches who landed their first head coaching job in the B1G.

The same thing cannot be said for Ben Johnson.
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Also different shoe size and different eye color.

It's obvious you've made up your mind, and no amount of contrary data will change it.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
The difference is that all of these coaches were players and/or assistants under highly successful coaches/programs before becoming a head coach. The same thing goes for the current B1G head coaches who landed their first head coaching job in the B1G.

The same thing cannot be said for Ben Johnson.
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So you give Mark Few credit for being under Dan Monson but not Ben Johnson?
 

atsgopher said:
So why would you give a shit who we hire, success is impossible anyhow.
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What? I provided evidence disputing your point. Name me an assistant who became a successful headcoach that has a worse win % as an assistant. Let's be intellectually honest and accept how out of leftfield this was.
 
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USAF said:
Also different shoe size and different eye color.

It's obvious you've made up your mind, and no amount of contrary data will change it.
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It's not contrary data. It's comparing apples and oranges.

Contrary data would be finding another successful head coach that started at a power conference job, after having little to no success as an assistant prior.
 

goldengophers said:
What? I provided evidence disputing your point. Name me an assistant who became a successful headcoach that has a worse win % as an assistant. Let's be intellectually honest.
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You actually didn't provide evidence disputing head coaching experience is necessary for success.

You did state an observation that very well could matter. Keep going, you might become comfortable, you might not. either way, that's fully up to you.
 

atsgopher said:
So you give Mark Few credit for being under Dan Monson but not Ben Johnson?
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They both started as assistants under Dan Fitzgerald. Gonzaga didn't have success until Few became an assistant, then they started winning a lot of games. He was likely the reason for that.

Few has had success without Fitzgerald and Monson. Fitzgerald and Monson have not had success without Few.
 

atsgopher said:
You actually didn't provide evidence disputing head coaching experience is necessary for success.

You did state an observation that very well could matter. Keep going, you might become comfortable, you might not. either way, that's fully up to you.
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Closed the door there, after reviewing the list you provided I leave more understanding and convicted of the beyond leftfield nature of Johnson being named.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
They both started as assistants under Dan Fitzgerald. Gonzaga didn't have success until Few became an assistant, then they started winning a lot of games. He was likely the reason for that.

Few has had success without Fitzgerald and Monson. Fitzgerald and Monson have not had success without Few.
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So some assistants have more to do with success than head coaches now?
 


Bad Gopher said:
Wow, you'll argue anything, won't you? There can be little doubt that Few was a key cog if not THE key in that operation going all the way back.
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Who's to say it wasn't Dan Monson despite his success at other schools? Who's to say Dan Monson wouldn't have led Gonzaga to the success they are having now? It's all speculation and no one knows including you.
 

goldengophers said:
Closed the door there, after reviewing the list you provided I leave more understanding and convicted of the beyond leftfield nature of Johnson being named.
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After all, Confirmation bias is there to protect the ego.
 


Johnnyboy18 said:
Who's to say it wasn't Dan Monson despite his success at other schools? Who's to say Dan Monson wouldn't have led Gonzaga to the success they are having now? It's all speculation and no one knows including you.
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I believe the adage that the cream rises to the top.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
It's not contrary data. It's comparing apples and oranges.

Contrary data would be finding another successful head coach that started at a power conference job, after having little to no success as an assistant prior.
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Oh for heaven sake.

"Assistants can't become successful without head coaching experience."

"Here's 20 examples, including some of the best coaches in history."

"They weren't SUCCESSFUL assistants. They don't count."

LOL.
 

goldengophers said:
Still awaiting an actual rebuttal with facts as opposed to an ad hominem attack.
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Nope, still talking about you not posting an argument that addresses my point.

What you did do is confirm your opinion. You checked out a few (not in order), skipped the rest, then made a statement that in no way contradicted what I stated. Textbook example of confirmation bias.

I told you your point is worth exploring. No?
 

atsgopher said:
Nope, still talking about you not posting an argument that addresses my point.

What you did do is confirm your opinion. You checked out a few (not in order), skipped the rest, then made a statement that in no way contradicted what I stated. Textbook example of confirmation bias.

I told you your point is worth exploring. No?
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Maybe you didn't read, here it was. Succeeded=Was already on Staff

Dean Smith UNC - Succeeded Frank McGuire 76% Win %
Mark Few Gonzaga - Succeeded Dan Monson 75% win %
Roy Wiliams Kansas - Assistant to one of the greatest coaches and programs (Dean Smith)
Tom Izzo MSU - Succeeded Heathcote 61% win %
Jim Boheim Syracuse - Succeeded Roy Danforth 68% win %
John Calipari UMass
Bobby Knight Army
Sean Miller Xavier
Brad Stevens Butler - Succeeded Licklighter 68% win %
Steve Fisher MI - Succeeded Bill Frieder 68% win %
Denny Crum louisville - Assistant to John Wooden
Adolph Rupp Kentucky
Phil Woolpert San Fran
 
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goldengophers said:
Maybe you didn't read, here it was:

Dean Smith UNC - Succeeded Frank McGuire 76% Win %
Mark Few Gonzaga - Succeeded Dan Monson 75% win %
Roy Wiliams Kansas - Assistant to one of the greatest coaches and programs
Tom Izzo MSU - Succeeded Heathcote 61% win %
Jim Boheim Syracuse - Succeeded Roy Danforth 68% win %
John Calipari UMass
Bobby Knight Army
Sean Miller Xavier
Brad Stevens Butler - Succeed Licklighter 68% win %
Steve Fisher MI
Denny Crum louisville
Adolph Rupp Kentucky
Phil Woolpert San Fran
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What is it that you think my point was?
 

atsgopher said:
What is it that you think my point was?
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They prove how there is zero similarity other than was an assistant prior. These were overwhelmingly promotions at already successful programs, not itinerant assistants hired from outside programs with a lack of success.
 
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goldengophers said:
They prove how there is zero similarity other than was an assistant prior. These were overwhelmingly promotions at already successful programs, not itinerant assistants with hired at an outside programs.
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So what is it that you think my point was?
 

atsgopher said:
So what is it that you think my point was?
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Your point: being an assistant prior to headcoach can be a successful path.
My objection is that it's a context free point and a provided list of coaches whose backgrounds bear little to no resemblance to Ben Johnson's.
 
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