All Things Gopher Players Appeals Process

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Pompous Elitist said:
As regarding the team being some sort of national embarrassment I can say that none of my associates that I discuss college ball with, family members outside of Minnesota had any clue to what's gone on. They were surprised to hear MN had a new coach. These are big college football fans. The details of the story might have gotten a lot of play on the local news because Pitchforks, but it had a very short half-life on the national stage. There are so many venues to gather news it takes something truly salacious to get traction not just a he said/she said that the police decided didn't have enough evidence to even bring charges/
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It got some national attention. It made the front page of the Washington Post.
 

I seem to recall that six of the seven panel members are women - not exactly much balance when young men are the accused. I remain convinced that any conduct construed as criminal in charges should not be handled by universities.
 

DeathClutch said:
I was listening to 93x this morning and the Attorney that they have on the show from time to time, Ryan Pacyga, said that he will be representing Winfield Jr. during the appeals process. He didn't really offer up any more details besides the fact that the appeals start early in the afternoon on Thursday and Friday, and go on until about 10-11pm both nights.

Thought it was interesting since I didn't know that the players will be allowed representation through the appeals process.
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I listened to a couple professors from the MIAC schools in the metro talk about the title IX process and the complete lack of due process students are given where the kids don't know anything about what is happening until the verdict is pronounced. No ability to argue their case is given until a group of staff members at the school determine the students fate. It was rather depressing to listen to the failure of title IX as they discussed the problems in their schools.
 

MNfootballfan said:
It is good to know that if Winfield is planning on appealing it is safe to assume that he is staying at the U. There is no other reason to appeal if you were headed to another school.
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There is a reason. You want to expunge your record for any future job opportunities.
 

vagopher said:
It got some national attention. It made the front page of the Washington Post.
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Can you think of any other school or athletic scandals that have been in the news? The news is full of scandals and criminal activity because it turns out humans are largely imperfect.
 


vagopher said:
It got some national attention. It made the front page of the Washington Post.
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I believe you said you spent years inside the beltway? How many scandals and terrible human beings were you awash in every day? How many scandal stories are here today and gone tomorrow? It was the boycott that made the news, not the crime. When the boycott was over + no charges = story is over and gone outside of the Twin Cities.
 

nsmike said:
A while back, I looked around in the material from the Department of Education, on these Title IX investigations. One of the things that I remember is that there is no power of subpoena, without the power of subpoena, how were they able to do a forensic examination of the phones? I believe that, just as the complainant was able to keep the tape off limits without consequence, the players should have been able to keep their phones off limits. I believe that the players due process rights were trampled. When you lynch a guilty person, it's still a lynching, punishment without due process, is just another form of lynching and wrong.
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+100
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
Why do all ten players, even those not directly involved, deserve the same consequence? I wonder if as many people would say that if Blake Cashman and Carter Coughlin were involved?


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The tables would be turned if the kids were white.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I believe you said you spent years inside the beltway? How many scandals and terrible human beings were you awash in every day? How many scandal stories are here today and gone tomorrow? It was the boycott that made the news, not the crime. When the boycott was over + no charges = story is over and gone outside of the Twin Cities.
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Well I don't think there has been much ongoing interest in the Minnesota boycott. The Post is largely focused at the moment on Trump and his incoming administration.
 



Spoofin said:
You can have this view, but shouldn't lump the 10 together in the same boat. The media does, but I expect more from you Ski-U-Master.


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Ozzy&Ray said:
Why do all ten players, even those not directly involved, deserve the same consequence? I wonder if as many people would say that if Blake Cashman and Carter Coughlin were involved?


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Of course some discretion should be used, and I am interested in seeing the results of the EOAA appeal process because I do have questions on why some of the players were recommended for discipline. For me though the suspension/expulsion from the University is a separate issue (related of course) from the suspension from the football team.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
That's fine and I agree there need to be standards of conduct and I agree anyone can be kicked off a football team at the coach's whim. However, this case revolves around the main pillar of sexual assault and whether the accuser's version of events happened and whether the players are getting a legitimate and fair process. I don't know about the former but I vehemently say no to the latter.

If the school is going to throw people out for every violation of a code of conduct it will be a very, very sparse campus.

This is about labeling kids rapists, not just violating a code of conduct. It's also about changing a terrible EOAA process. It doesn't matter if you think trains are gross and undignified or the boycott was ill-conceived. Many people feel that homosexuals are mentally ill and is a result of choice not genetics, and is beyond icky. They ought to be kicked out of school?
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I'm not talking about kicking people out of the University, just the football program which I view as a privilege. Yes it seems there are problems with the EOAA process and yes there are always complicated issues with sexual assault allegations, but for me this all was easily avoidable by being a little more conscious of how what you are doing will be perceived since the players are minor celebrities. I don't think group sex is "icky" as you say, I don't really care what people do, but lots of people do care as evidenced by the non-stop threads on this site and the high local media attention the story received.

Anyway, it's just my opinion. I get that other people feel differently and that's fine too, everyone has their own lens through which they view the world and in the end none of what we say on this site will have any impact on the outcome of this situation. Hope you enjoy the rest of the offseason!
 

It will be interesting how this turns out, my guess is that the players that were present will be suspended for 1 yr and the others will get 1 yr of probation and will return to the team immediately.
 

bossman68 said:
It will be interesting how this turns out, my guess is that the players that were present will be suspended for 1 yr and the others will get 1 yr of probation and will return to the team immediately.
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I know you're just guessing, but when you say "the players that were present," you're talking about those who admit having sex with the woman, yes? And the others are those who didn't?
 




A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Agreed, I'd want mine there working for just me. Just from the report there are different interests at play.

It could be a question of cost... we know Winfield has his own attorney and his dad made money in the NFL.

I'm not sure the resources for the others, not sure anyone provides them with an attorney (that also would be a concern).
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I have been through this process; having your own attorney might make you feel better but it's a waste of time. The school will do what the school wants to do. There is no due process. There is vacuity in the school rules and guidelines on purpose.

Now this is where I could be wrong and and an attorney could help. If the school sees itself as being vulnerable to future litigation they may reverse field on the school punishment. This (back off punishment) is what I believe will happen due to the comments of Kaler were he all but called the players sexual offenders. Max one year suspensions for some (they will have to sit a season if they transfer). The exception is if they are willing to transfer to a lower division school. Suspension served for others (they missed the bowl game).



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Ski U Master said:
I'm not talking about kicking people out of the University, just the football program which I view as a privilege. Yes it seems there are problems with the EOAA process and yes there are always complicated issues with sexual assault allegations, but for me this all was easily avoidable by being a little more conscious of how what you are doing will be perceived since the players are minor celebrities. I don't think group sex is "icky" as you say, I don't really care what people do, but lots of people do care as evidenced by the non-stop threads on this site and the high local media attention the story received.

Anyway, it's just my opinion. I get that other people feel differently and that's fine too, everyone has their own lens through which they view the world and in the end none of what we say on this site will have any impact on the outcome of this situation. Hope you enjoy the rest of the offseason!
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Just a point of clarification. It ceased being a "privilege" years ago. It's now a job. The football program brings tens of millions of dollars a year to the school. The players work full time during the season and many, many hours during the rest of the school year and for hours a week after that. The Coaches Association finally felt the need to mandate a day off per week because they felt that many Coaches wouldn't do that unless they were forced too!

If you believe that it takes talent and hard work to get on a football team in the first place, maybe it's always been a job and not a privilege. Only the guys who filled out the roster could honestly say that without trying to fool themselves or the public. That 4-5 star kid who gets to choose which school he's gonna play might say "it's a privilege" to play for his final school, but he earned those offers. He'll need to do the job once he gets there too or he probably will be fired.

The same for any of us in the real world, unless of course a relative runs the place.

If it wasn't a job teams wouldn't be so negligent about star players behaviors and so quick to kick out 3 and 4 string guys for the same actions.

"Follow the money" applies here too.
 

Great Plains Gopher said:
I seem to recall that six of the seven panel members are women - not exactly much balance when young men are the accused. I remain convinced that any conduct construed as criminal in charges should not be handled by universities.
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Pretty sure someone thought the EOAA staff heard the appeal and looked at the EOAA staff page. Office of Student Conduct and Academic Integrity issued the discipline. There is a panel list cited in an earlier thread which had something like 2 dozen names on it.
 

Suspended Gophers get closed-door appeal hearings in alleged sexual assault - Strib

Players' lawyers decry process. University of Minnesota officials say they cannot discuss case.

The players, all of whom are enrolled and attending class in the recently started semester, have been recommended for suspended or expulsion from the university.

The U’s Office of Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action (EOAA) made the recommendations after an investigation that yielded an 80-page report detailing an alleged sexual assault in a Dinkytown apartment last year. The players deny assaulting the woman and those directly involved say the sex was consensual.

From 2-11 p.m. Thursday and 1-10 p.m. Friday, the players and their lawyers will argue their cases for reinstatement. The university will also have a presenter acting as a quasi prosecutor making the U’s case under the rules of “Student Sexual Misconduct Subcommittee.”

Ryan Pacyga, who is representing one of the suspended students, and Lee Hutton, who represents the other nine, already are raising flags about how the hearing is set up. The two attempted to sever the hearings — so each player would have his own. The U wouldn’t allow it, they said.

“There’s no due process at all considering what’s on the line,” Pacyga said, adding that the players have all been “smeared” and the U officials have taken positions without giving the players a hearing...

While the university’s rules differ from courts of law, Pacyga noted that students are still entitled to due process under Title IX, establishing an equal right to education under federal law.

According to the rules for such hearings, each student has up to three hours to present his case. The university has allotted 18 hours total for the 10 students, not including breaks.

University spokesmen say that nothing about a student conduct hearing can be made public by them — not even the existence of such hearings and not the outcome.

To suspend or expel a student, a majority of the hearing panel must agree it was “more than likely” the men violated the code of conduct. That differs greatly from state criminal courts where a jury must unanimously agree that a defendant committed a crime “beyond a reasonable doubt.”

After the hearings, the committee has up to one week to issue a decision. Students are notified in writing. After that, the U’s rules indicate the student can appeal the decision to the provost, Karen Hanson, senior vice president for academic affairs.

http://www.startribune.com/suspende...-friday-in-sexual-assault-incident/411698196/
 

Iceland12 said:
According to the rules for such hearings, each student has up to three hours to present his case. The university has allotted 18 hours total for the 10 students, not including breaks.
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I'm not a math genius but....
 


GophersInIowa said:
I'm not a math genius but....
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Yeah, wondered about that myself. Would guess that the thinking was that even though the players could take up to 3 hours to present their case, the committee is guessing they won't use all of it.

Though looking back on how this was been handled, maybe the committee has already been told what the verdict is gonna be.
 




They will have testimony in a round, thus cutting down the time to almost half what should be alloted
 



Doogie's scoops podcast offered a tidbit that I did not know. Apparently Reggie Lynch had the EOAA recommend harsh penalties for violations of the Student Code of Conduct (shocking, I know) but was overturned by the 3 person panel that the 10 players are going before now. Different panel of course.
 

CurveballJesus said:
Doogie's scoops podcast offered a tidbit that I did not know. Apparently Reggie Lynch had the EOAA recommend harsh penalties for violations of the Student Code of Conduct (shocking, I know) but was overturned by the 3 person panel that the 10 players are going before now. Different panel of course.
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That's a good piece of info. Ties into the reports that of the many cases sent to that committee only one resulted in heavy discipline. Hope they look at the merits of the "case" and not try and right past "wrongs".

Doogie gets way to much "bleep". He does a pretty good job. When he's reporting rumors almost by definition, that means you're gonna be wrong far more often than right. Often the "sources" themselves are throwing out bad info on purpose. See all the b.s. NBA rumors. Doogie gets the info and reports it as a "rumor". People shouldn't be ticked when they turn out not to be true. Though he doesn't seem to get any credit for the ones that do end up to be right.

Comes with the job I guess.
 

The 7 days to decide then it being done in writing is very concerning to me. I admit not for the purpose of innocent or guilty or alleged victims. But for the purpose of recruiting and building a viable roster that could easily be a week after NSD.

As for Doogie, I agree. In today's world of inside info and scoops and nothing being sacred, it must be awfully tough to have the edge. I think he does pretty well considering the channel he works for. No one rips the people from the other stations because they don't even try to keep up. Doogie beats out his competitors and national media on info more times than not. It can't all be 100% accurate.
 

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